Kabby Lake and/or Zen buyers? Windows 10 is the only way?

[Elixer]

Didn't see this posted... Is this MS's final push to get people to get into Windows 10?
Or, will people dump windows and go for Linux?


http://www.pcworld.com/article/3112...e-zen-chips-will-support-only-windows-10.html

AMD and Intel, for their part, appear to have had little choice in Microsoft’s decision essentially to limit the customers they can sell to.

“We are committed to working with Microsoft and our ecosystem partners to help ensure a smooth transition given these changes to Microsoft’s Windows support policy,” an Intel spokesman said.

"No, Intel will not be updating Win 7/8 drivers for 7th Gen Intel Core per Microsoft’s support policy change," he added in an email on Tuesday.

An AMD representative was equally neutral. “AMD’s processor roadmap is fully aligned with Microsoft’s software strategy,” AMD chief technical officer Mark Papermaster said, via a company spokeswoman.

AMD’s Bristol Ridge chip, the first to be tied to Windows 10, launched in June as its seventh-generation APU. AMD’s first member of its new Zen microprocessor family, dubbed Summit Ridge, will appear in high-end desktop PCs early next year. Neither will be officially supported by the older operating systems.

 

[imported_falacy]

As a primary Linux user, who intends to upgrade in 2018 - 2019, I hope that I'll be able to buy something that doesn't lock out non-Windows 10 operating systems... I'm kind of leaning toward moving away from the desktop and into a laptop, but I fear the crappy UEFIs that laptops often come with (ie. I need to be able to use AMD-V and to boot Linux). It's hard enough to find a lappy that comes with Linux, let alone one with the specs you want, in a chassis you like, for a price that isn't out of this world. So... would be nice if Intel/AMD/Microsoft didn't try and turn PCs into locked down, "walled gardens", similar to what we have in the mobile space.

 

[NostaSeronx]

If Skylake/Bristol-Stoney onwards Windows 10 Latest Build is the best bet, followed up by native-AVX2 SteamOS.

 

[Jovec]

How much of an issue is this really? Microsoft isn't going to backport support for all the new processor features into older versions of their OS. It does not mean that those OSes won't work at all on newer CPUs. Linux isn't exactly any different.

There are other issues with MS and Win10 that are of concern.

 

[imported_falacy]

How much of an issue is this really? Microsoft isn't going to backport support for all the new processor features into older versions of their OS. It does not mean that those OSes won't work at all on newer CPUs. Linux isn't exactly any different.

There are other issues with MS and Win10 that are of concern.

That's true. All but a handful specialized Linux distros have dropped support for 386 and 486 CPUs. Maintaining such support is likely not time well spent for anyone.

The crux is that it's a little different to say, "this OS doesn't support that hardware" than it is to say, "this hardware only supports that OS".

 

[nerp]

Nobody has any reason to worry unless they want to run an obsolete OS on brand new hardware. And who wants to do that?

 

[daxzy]

As a primary Linux user, who intends to upgrade in 2018 - 2019, I hope that I'll be able to buy something that doesn't lock out non-Windows 10 operating systems... I'm kind of leaning toward moving away from the desktop and into a laptop, but I fear the crappy UEFIs that laptops often come with (ie. I need to be able to use AMD-V and to boot Linux). It's hard enough to find a lappy that comes with Linux, let alone one with the specs you want, in a chassis you like, for a price that isn't out of this world. So... would be nice if Intel/AMD/Microsoft didn't try and turn PCs into locked down, "walled gardens", similar to what we have in the mobile space.

Oh please. The amount of FUD going around UEFI is just startling. If you're going to buy a bleeding edge laptop, the last thing you have to worry about is some mystical entity blocking your ability to install Linux. The first thing you should worry about is how crappy and immature the drivers are on release for consumer Linux products. You can install Ubuntu or Fedora on pretty much any system and it'll work (I've never actually had to find drivers; one of the good things about early upstreaming lots of manufacturers worth a damn do). But just because you can find drivers, doesn't mean they've been tested, since there is no WHQL (driver devs cry over WHQL, but frankly it's a good standardization to prevent crap drivers from entering the market) equivalent in Linux. For reference, I've tried Ubuntu and Fedora on SandyBridge and Skylake on release for some laptops. The number of driver issues (mostly around suspend, you'd figure 10 years later, driver devs should be able to do S1/S3 sleep correctly) literally made it unusable for me. I've complained on Bugzilla or wherever, but if you don't want to wait for weeks on end (at times), they'll tell you it's open source so you can fix it yourself (at which point I'm thinking come on, I just need to do my own work, not yours).

OTOH, I just bought an old IvyBridge laptop and the Linux support is awesome. Drivers have been relatively stable (a few WiFi/suspend issues, see the trend?). I tend to stick with Windows on bleeding edge consumer products. With Windows 10's hacky (or magical, depending on your POV) user mode only Ubuntu, I see less of a reason to go Linux on laptops.

 

[frozentundra123456]

How much of an issue is this really? Microsoft isn't going to backport support for all the new processor features into older versions of their OS. It does not mean that those OSes won't work at all on newer CPUs. Linux isn't exactly any different.

There are other issues with MS and Win10 that are of concern.

I think it is an issue. I work at a major university and all our computers are re-imaged with Win 7 pro after purchase. I have heard no rumors of changing to Windows 10, and except for microsoft's heavy handed tactics, there is absolutely no reason to. Just a lot of extra work for the IT department for no gain. In the 5 years I have worked there I have not had one issue with Windows 7. In fact, on my home computer, I have had more issues with Win 10 than I had on win 7 and the much maligned Vista *combined*.

Edit: As I understand that article, Win 7 will not work with Kabylake and Zen, not just that it will not support the latest features. Maybe I am reading it wrong or they are exaggerating the situation, but to me that is what it says. TBH, I hate win 10 more than any OS I have ever used, with the possible exception of the notorious Windows ME.

 

[Yuriman]

I've had some terrible experiences with 10 upgrades, but every clean 10 installation I've done has been perfect.

 

[Maverick177]

I'm on Windows 10 anyway so Zen only supporting Windows 10 doesn't matter much.

 

[whm1974]

I expected Microsoft to drop support for Windows 7 on new hardware sooner or later.

 

[cbn]

Nobody has any reason to worry unless they want to run an obsolete OS on brand new hardware. And who wants to do that?

I do.....in some cases.

One reason is Windows Media Center, which I have found to be an absolutely amazing piece of software.

 

[ShintaiDK]

If you for some odd reason haven't gone Windows 10 yet, despite it was free. You can still get it for free with a little trick.

Upgrade via this:
https://www.microsoft.com/en-us/accessibility/windows10upgrade

 

[JimmiG]

Most CPUs go into OEM systems, which come with the latest version of Windows pre-installed anyway. So for the industry as a whole, this is largely irrelevant. Only large corporations with glacial, archaic IT departments might encounter problems with this.

The newer chips will most likely still work with earlier versions of Windows. it just won't be officially supported, and you'll be missing out on some specific power/performance optimizations and features. These CPUs still run x86 instructions and are fundamentally backwards compatible. Otherwise you wouldn't be able to run software from pre-2015 on them either. That would be ridiculous and is not going to happen.

Also, it's not just about CPUs, but the entire platform. You can't expect Microsoft to backport every platform feature, like revisions to USB, Wi-Fi, NVMe, PCI-Express, drivers for new iGPU's, new instruction sets, power saving features etc. At some point, forward compatibility in obsolete and deprecated operating systems has to be broken. We were spoiled with WinXP and Win7, but that was not normal for the industry.

 

[whm1974]

I do.....in some cases.

One reason is Windows Media Center, which I have found to be an absolutely amazing piece of software.

There is Kodi and MythTV. They should work.

 

[Ajay]

Didn't see this posted... Is this MS's final push to get people to get into Windows 10?
Or, will people dump windows and go for Linux?

Just to answer your question - very few ppl are going to dump Windows for Linux. Windows has the golden handcuffs of a huge software library. I like Linux, but I've only used it for sftw dev, not as my main OS.

 

[Elixer]

If you for some odd reason haven't gone Windows 10 yet, despite it was free. You can still get it for free with a little trick.

Upgrade via this:
https://www.microsoft.com/en-us/accessibility/windows10upgrade

While this may be true (for now), it shouldn't allow you to transfer this win 10 to a new motherboard/CPU, so, I don't think this applies for future owners of Kabby or Zen.

 

[jpiniero]

Nobody has any reason to worry unless they want to run an obsolete OS on brand new hardware. And who wants to do that?

Windows 7 isn't obsolete by any means.

Most CPUs go into OEM systems, which come with the latest version of Windows pre-installed anyway. So for the industry as a whole, this is largely irrelevant. Only large corporations with glacial, archaic IT departments might encounter problems with this.

The company I work for creates their own OS image. They are working on a Windows 10 one, maybe they will complete it by the end of the year. I'd say that's actually pretty aggressive timetable on moving to W10. I don't know what hardware they are buying now, it's probably still Haswell Refresh. I imagine Intel would prefer them to be buying something on 14 nm..

Intel supported XP through all those years; this is basically a change in policy in supporting earlier OSes. Obviously this is more coming from MS, because they want to push the crap in W10.

 

[cbn]

Nobody has any reason to worry unless they want to run an obsolete OS on brand new hardware. And who wants to do that?

I do.....in some cases.

One reason is Windows Media Center, which I have found to be an absolutely amazing piece of software.

There is Kodi and MythTV. They should work.

MythTV (or Mythbuntu) can't record DRM protected channels like HBO.

Also I have found Mythbuntu very difficult to set-up with my HDHomeRun Prime while Windows media center is really easy.

 

[Sheep221]

I'm wondering why this is linked to CPU, the OS does not support CPU per specific model/platform, it only does or does not support common X86 instruction sets that these CPUs come with. I would be more worried about motherboard problems because mobos come with several different drivers but most are for third party integrated parts that come with own drivers so I think there is no reason that win 7 wouldn't work.

 

[The Stilt]

I'm pretty sure power management wise Zeppelin & Raven will support Windows 7 just fine. Their power management is handled by a co-processor, so they shouldn't need extensive control from the OS side. In this aspect they are not any different to Excavator based designs, which work just fine under Win 7. However there might be a performance penalty on Zen based parts on older operating systems, since I'm quite sure MS needs to tune the scheduler to suit the needs of Zen based designs (due SMT behavior).

 

[DrMrLordX]

I would expect more problems out of stuff like drivers for the onboard FCH under older versions of Windows than anything else. And yeah, scheduler stuff. Hell just the scheduler improvements from 7->10 on SR won me over, I'm not going back to 7. Despite having a key I could use.

Linux should overall be fine, and Linux has no problems with UEFI. Either a). disable secure boot or b). use a distro like one of the Ubuntus that has support for UEFI secure boot.

 

[Denly]

If you for some odd reason haven't gone Windows 10 yet, despite it was free. You can still get it for free with a little trick.

Upgrade via this:
https://www.microsoft.com/en-us/accessibility/windows10upgrade

don't even need that, you can activate W10 with W7 key still. Just did one last night using my old USB W10 tool.

 

[Einzige]

Yes. The entire world will probably cease using Windows for Linux.

...nah.

 

[severus]

I absolutely refuse to upgrade to 10 so I'm hoping that there is at least compatibility rather than optimization. I was using windows 2000 until roughly 2011 when I switched to Windows 7. I see absolutely no need to use 10. For what I do it's completely unnecessary (casual photoshop and minimal gaming). This is a typical attempt by microsoft to FORCE consumers to use their product.