Just want to say that I hate China.

[PowerYoga]

China is great to visit, because you're not overly constrained by the bullshit that happens on a day to day basis: you're just a tourist. Once you start living there for half a year to a year, you'll realize how shitty it is not because the place is terrible, but that there's no accountability and the whole place is a free for all. They would serve you arsenic loaded soup because arsenic is 0.01 cents cheaper than using flour.

 

[Farmer]

That's their culture. To be perfectly fair that's most of the world's culture.

China was always a mosh fest.

I know right?

I mean, how fucking ignorant is this line of thought: In America, polite means not cutting in line. So, if I go to some other country and their people cut me in line, that automatically means they are an inferior group of people and need to be educated about how things are in America, where it's better.

Have you lived your entire life in the OC sipping on Starbucks frappuccinos you can't deal with people cutting in front of you?

I honestly thought this entire thread was a troll, but it seems like you are actually being serious.

 

[Train]

I know right?

I mean, how fucking ignorant is this line of thought: In America, polite means not cutting in line. So, if I go to some other country and their people cut me in line, that automatically means they are an inferior group of people and need to be educated about how things are in America, where it's better.

You seem to be confused. Something being culturally acceptable doesn't make it any less rude. And how you made the leap from that to "inferior group of people" is beyond me.

 

[dighn]

It has everything to do with the government and the culture that the government embodies. The people are fine for the most part.

As much as I hate to say it, yeah, sometimes I wish the British would have taken over China. Maybe not the Japanese since imperial Japan was basically genocidal up until WWII. But I look at Hong Kong and feel that they are WAY better off than the mainland because they have a history of British colonialism. In the long run it did them good.

The history of China - from the 1950s to now, reads like a very badly managed real time strategy game.

The Japanese were barbaric genociders and the British were also imperialistic jerks. I wouldn't mind too much if the US took over. Countries under US influence seem to do awfully well and don't seem oppressed at all (Japan, Taiwan etc.). In a way that is happening; the new generations are raised on a mixture of eastern and western values, and the children of the ruling class all get their education in the west. It'll sort itself out in time.

 

[Farmer]

You seem to be confused. Something being culturally acceptable doesn't make it any less rude. And how you made the leap from that to "inferior group of people" is beyond me.

Umm, what is "rude" and "polite" is defined entirely by societal norms, norms which differ between cultures.

Regarding inferior group of people, the statement that China is somehow "behind" America simply because what qualifies as acceptable social behavior differs.

 

[dighn]

Umm, what is "rude" and "polite" is defined entirely by societal norms, norms which differ between cultures.

Regarding inferior group of people, the statement that China is somehow "behind" America simply because what qualifies as acceptable social behavior differs.

I can't believe you are arguing that basic manners like not cutting in line is a relative value. Ask any Chinese person and they'll tell you it's wrong, even if they do it. They'll rationalize why they do it, but they'll agree it's just wrong.

 

[Train]

Regarding inferior group of people, the statement that China is somehow "behind" America simply because what qualifies as acceptable social behavior differs.

"the statement" ? Which statement? Quote the statement you are talking about.

 

[Fanatical Meat]

I learned something new to make me not want to visit China, most people don't put diapers on babies. Basically they let the poop/pee anywhere & everywhere. Yes this includes resteraunts & markets.

 

[mikegg]

I've noticed this a lot more lately due the high influx of Chinese immigrants but why do so many of them cut on line or rudely push people out of the way so often? They also speak obnoxiously loud everywhere they go without any regard for other people. I can't think or do anything once their nonstop and bellowing conversation starts. I hate to generalize but it affects my day to day often. I have yet to see such blatant and crude manners from any other immigrant ethnicities no matter the social status.

It's just culture. They don't mean to be rude. I know it's hard to understand why they do it or where they come from but it's just culture.

 

[mikegg]

The government and its people do not care as long as they make busloads of money.

NY Times report, Wen Jiabao (the current Prime Minister), and family members have billions of USD in hidden wealth = http://www.nytimes.com/2012/10/26/b...n-jiabao-holds-a-hidden-fortune-in-china.html

Bloomberg report, Xi Jinping, the next President of China, with hundreds of million USD (and will grow a lot faster after he becomes the big boss) in wealth = http://www.businessweek.com/news/20...illionaire-relations-reveal-fortunes-of-elite

The filthy rich folks can move to Canada, Australia, or US or send their childen to US colleges but in the mean while, the poors suffer the consequences. Such as this = http://www.chinahush.com/2009/10/21/amazing-pictures-pollution-in-china/

Also, the OP did not mention about "hukou" or household registration system in China. Same country but two separate classes of Chinese people.

It's crazy. Crazy images. It makes me really sad.

I like our electronics and items but damn - China needs to start mandating environmental controls even if it means not having tremendous growth every year.

In 5-10 years, they won't have anywhere to live.

 

[mikegg]

I learned something new to make me not want to visit China, most people don't put diapers on babies. Basically they let the poop/pee anywhere & everywhere. Yes this includes resteraunts & markets.

Diapers are a luxury. It's not a basic need. You think people can afford diapers in non-Western countries?

 

[NikolaeVarius]

It's just culture. They don't mean to be rude. I know it's hard to understand why they do it or where they come from but it's just culture.

It's not just culture, its a function of EXTREME competition for everything.

The USA doesn't really have any of this kind of competition because the country has had a large resourceopulation ratio.

However, in countries such as China or Asia, you are/were always fighting for everything. This kind of behavior is mostly from the older generation, but even in younger generation, you're competing with thousands of people for the same thing. Every single possible advantage is taken. This isn't like fighting for disaster aid relief or anything, this is a country where if you don't fight others, you don't get anything at all and can't survive. If you get cut in line, its YOUR fault for being slow/lazy/unattentive. The person who is the most alpha dog comes out on top and if you get skipped, you skip that bastard right back and prove to him you're a better/smarter person than he is with your actions, and not passive agressive bullshit.

I remember that thread a while back where people were making fun of Korea for having a massive male makeup industry. Its simply because of the competition for jobs. You're competing with thounands of smilarly skilled workers for the same hyperskilled jobs. You can't come out on top because of grades or experience, so many other people have the exact same resume, so you then got to go with personal appearence, give off a powerful clean look. USA has never really experienced that sort of competition so have no real bearing as to where to put their expectations.

When people from asian countries come to America, they don't come just because higher education is prestigious. They come because its SO MUCH EASIER to get anywhere because the USA is such a large place. Your placement in life is determined by a single entrance exam you study your ENTIRE life for, and its extremely stressful. You don't have any of that in the USA.

The government needs to stop its bullshit and get its act together.

 

[mikegg]

Umm, what is "rude" and "polite" is defined entirely by societal norms, norms which differ between cultures.

Regarding inferior group of people, the statement that China is somehow "behind" America simply because what qualifies as acceptable social behavior differs.

In America, people think it's funny when others suffer. Go read Youtube video comments of people getting beat up and fighting, guys falling on their crotch and you'll see plenty of "civilized" Americans laughing at them.

It doesn't happen in Asian cultures. People there don't laugh at the misery of others like they do here. Does that make Asian cultures "superior"? No. It's just different.

Americans do a lot of stupid shit too - especially in the Southern states. I visited St. Louis once and while walking on streets, I was screamed at by people driving by because I'm not white. This type of racism and harassment doesn't happen in China and other Asian cultures. Is it because American culture is behind? Is being cut in line worse than being screamed by drivers driving by? You tell me.

 

[Suspicious-Teach8788]

I think this has to do with the OP more than anything else. I'm going to China soon, and I've been twice already.

I know enough people who go study abroad or even go spend a whole summer there. Sure there's cultural differences, and while I may never live there and same with my friends, I think we all would have fun.

To say you hate a place so many people have fun over probably reflects more on you than the place itself. Sure there's negatives like Facebook doesn't work, but if that's causing you to hate China... damn bro. What would help if you spoke the language a bit. I have so much fun in Taiwan everytime I go because I go so damn often I get around like the natives do. Yeah my friends take the MRT, but that only takes you so many places. If you're really from the area, you know the bus routes.

As for the rude thing, it's totally true. Taiwan isn't the most polite country out there, but when we see Mainland tourists, it's like LOL. You can spot them in an instant. The loud obnoxious ones. I have many family photos in Taiwan (sure I go to a touristy spot every year), where it's like "dude get out of my freaking photo." They just don't care and stand in your way, etc. It's disgusting.

I was in Las Vegas once waiting at the Apple store for my Mac to get fixed post EDC weekend. It was WWDC week and I sat there surfing reading the WWDC announcements (new MBA and Retina 15"). A group of Chinese tourists were trying to buy the iPad but could not communicate with the Apple store rep. I decided to just translate one key phrase (he wants to see your ID/passport for the credit card transaction). BAM. They flocked on me. Some lady asked me to fix her camera. At the APPLE STORE. What do I look like a tech support rep? Jeez. I may be a DSLR shooter and I've taken apart lenses before, but I sure as hell wasn't wearing that on my sleeve.

It's something you learn to live with. In Taiwan we joke all the time about mainlanders and how they're loud and obnoxious. Learn to deal with it if you're in China. It's honestly not that bad.

 

[GoSharks]

i like chinese products

Comparison shots of my car's hid headlights vs 3 cheap chinese fleshlights

f 1.7, 1/2 sec exp., iso 160

s2000:

skyray king + stl v2 x2

I see that you're one of those jerks that likes to blind people with your cheap, misaligned headlights.

 

[dighn]

It's not just culture, its a function of EXTREME competition for everything

...

there is much truth in this. people are at their best when they don't need to worry about their own survival and comfort. it's an explanation, but not an excuse. there are other highly populous and competitive societies that are much more orderly and well mannered, like the japanese or the taiwanese. mainland china has just been through so much turmoil that right now it lacks a fundamental system of ethics. traditional morality has been replaced with communist ideals, and now even those are no more. also despite recent improvements, the general public is still not as educated as more developed societies.

In America, people think it's funny when others suffer. Go read Youtube video comments of people getting beat up and fighting, guys falling on their crotch and you'll see plenty of "civilized" Americans laughing at them.

It doesn't happen in Asian cultures. People there don't laugh at the misery of others like they do here. Does that make Asian cultures "superior"? No. It's just different.

Americans do a lot of stupid shit too - especially in the Southern states. I visited St. Louis once and while walking on streets, I was screamed at by people driving by because I'm not white. This type of racism and harassment doesn't happen in China and other Asian cultures. Is it because American culture is behind? Is being cut in line worse than being screamed by drivers driving by? You tell me.

asian people just lack a sense of humor. they don't care about the guy falling on his crouch anymore than an american. also when it comes to racism, asians are much worse offenders. you just don't hear about it often because these countries are racially homogeneous, and the ones discriminated against aren't very vocal/visible. forget racism, even the level of prejudice many chinese people hold over other chinese of "inferior" status (whether by birth place, wealth or profession) disgusts me.

 

[quikah]

I learned something new to make me not want to visit China, most people don't put diapers on babies. Basically they let the poop/pee anywhere & everywhere. Yes this includes resteraunts & markets.

Chinese potty train at ridiculously young ages. They start at like 4-6 months. The mom will take the baby to the toilet and whistle in their ear to get them to go. It is kind of amazing actually. Not perfect, but it is not like the kids are crapping and urinating all over the place (well not as much as you imply anyway ).

 

[fuzzybabybunny]

I learned something new to make me not want to visit China, most people don't put diapers on babies. Basically they let the poop/pee anywhere & everywhere. Yes this includes resteraunts & markets.

I've seen this, but not the pooping. Well, maybe the pooping because I've seen poop on streets before, but I didn't see the actual act.

Chinese toddlers where pants where the bottoms have a big slit down the middle. I've noticed on a number of occasions, in the big cities at least, where parents are standing by as the toddler pees in the middle of the street, or is lifting the toddler off the ground in a seated position of the toddler is female.

I've even seen this in the middle of the Forbidden City. This wasn't a toddler, but a boy perhaps 6 years old peeing on a tree lining the central walkway.

 

[fuzzybabybunny]

I think this has to do with the OP more than anything else. I'm going to China soon, and I've been twice already.

I know enough people who go study abroad or even go spend a whole summer there. Sure there's cultural differences, and while I may never live there and same with my friends, I think we all would have fun.

To say you hate a place so many people have fun over probably reflects more on you than the place itself. Sure there's negatives like Facebook doesn't work, but if that's causing you to hate China... damn bro. What would help if you spoke the language a bit. I have so much fun in Taiwan everytime I go because I go so damn often I get around like the natives do. Yeah my friends take the MRT, but that only takes you so many places. If you're really from the area, you know the bus routes.

As for the rude thing, it's totally true. Taiwan isn't the most polite country out there, but when we see Mainland tourists, it's like LOL. You can spot them in an instant. The loud obnoxious ones. I have many family photos in Taiwan (sure I go to a touristy spot every year), where it's like "dude get out of my freaking photo." They just don't care and stand in your way, etc. It's disgusting.

I was in Las Vegas once waiting at the Apple store for my Mac to get fixed post EDC weekend. It was WWDC week and I sat there surfing reading the WWDC announcements (new MBA and Retina 15"). A group of Chinese tourists were trying to buy the iPad but could not communicate with the Apple store rep. I decided to just translate one key phrase (he wants to see your ID/passport for the credit card transaction). BAM. They flocked on me. Some lady asked me to fix her camera. At the APPLE STORE. What do I look like a tech support rep? Jeez. I may be a DSLR shooter and I've taken apart lenses before, but I sure as hell wasn't wearing that on my sleeve.

It's something you learn to live with. In Taiwan we joke all the time about mainlanders and how they're loud and obnoxious. Learn to deal with it if you're in China. It's honestly not that bad.

I'm a mainlander. I've been to China 3 times. I speak Chinese. I can get around like the locals do. I still hate China for its government and how the ruling class' level of performance is simply to keep appearances high enough to avoid people from revolting so they can stay in power. Sometimes the people bother me, but by and large they're ok, especially the younger more educated middle class generation, and especially the ones who have studied abroad. The poorer people have a much higher chance of trying to swindle you. The middle class are sweet. The upper class, especially the young people, are fucking spoiled, largely because they're the only child and traditional Chinese parents would all die and give the skin off the bodies for their children.

In China, parents will save up money to BUY a house for their son who's just graduated from college, and go rent someplace for themselves. Same with cars and luxury goods like Apple products.

Being raised in the US I wouldn't even accept such an offer, and my parents have tried, believe me. If I go to them tomorrow and ask them to buy a *house* for me they would. They've offered to buy houses for me.

 

[fuzzybabybunny]

I still want to reiterate how fucking awesome China is if you simply ignore the Government influence. The food, the history, the nature, and the sheer volume of things to see or do. Go to the zoo or the circus since you will never see anything as crazy and fucked up outside of maybe a zoo in Thailand.

I for one loved my time there. I'd start looking at the glass as half full at this point since you've already identified all the bad things and there's not a damn thing you can do about it.

There are undoubtedly lots of things that I love about this country and I could just turn off my brain and not worry about anything - such as how the government is oppressing the very people that I enjoy hanging out with, how they're not happy with life because of the huge income gap, how most all of them want to leave and go west, how people will pour coke down the side of a bear exhibit at the zoo as the bear is standing there slurping it up, and then throw the coke bottle into the exhibit...

I don't limit myself to just rose colored glasses. If I want to understand a country I want to *understand* it.

 

[fuzzybabybunny]

I don't necessarily agree. China had thousands of years of rich heritage of culture based on confusianism, taoism and filial piety. This was the norm for hundreds of years until the cultural revolution when the "great leader" Mao decided to burn books, destroy culture and to bury the intellectuals alive and to destroy all shreds of common decency in favor of absolute power.

All "culture" in China is the great result of the "great leap backwards" and it shows in the people's mentality. In my eyes, Taiwan is a much better representation of Chinese culture.

Interesting. The question remains though. Considering where they are, without religion, how do you teach someone to do the right things simply because they're the right things to do? Without religion? Is do onto others what you would have them do onto you compelling enough a reason to convince people to actually act accordingly in real life?

I for one think do onto others is the very minimal standard of conduct. If your standards are not high so will your actions onto others if you go by this rule. Where's the above and beyond clause? The "just because" clause?

 

[fuzzybabybunny]

asian people just lack a sense of humor. they don't care about the guy falling on his crouch anymore than an american. also when it comes to racism, asians are much worse offenders. you just don't hear about it often because these countries are racially homogeneous, and the ones discriminated against aren't very vocal/visible. forget racism, even the level of prejudice many chinese people hold over other chinese of "inferior" status (whether by birth place, wealth or profession) disgusts me.

And to re-iterate what you said, this is mostly due to lack of education and experience, which is in and of itself a type of education.

It's homogeneous. There aren't a lot of outsiders (lack of experience). They don't understand people from other walks of life and choose to hold onto preconceived notions (lack of experience + education).

Just yesterday one of the bartenders working at the hostel told me he didn't like black people. I asked him why and he said that yesterday there was a black person who was speaking rather coarse and loud to him. So he extrapolated this experience into "not liking black people." There are practically no black people in China, travelers and otherwise.

 

[elitejp]

Diapers are a luxury. It's not a basic need. You think people can afford diapers in non-Western countries?

Seriously? You think chinese people are that poor? Sorry, but they dont buy diapers because its not something they are accustomed to, its not cause they are poor. America buys diapers because youd get thrown in jail for having a naked baby running around...lol.


(Actually I think you might have been being sarcastic)

 

[Svnla]

It's crazy. Crazy images. It makes me really sad.

I like our electronics and items but damn - China needs to start mandating environmental controls even if it means not having tremendous growth every year.

In 5-10 years, they won't have anywhere to live.

I just heard this morning on NPR radio that the daugther of Xi (the new boss of China) is a student at Harvard. Not a lot of regular folks in China can send their kids to US to study, let alone at a Ivy League school.

Here are more pollution = http://blogs.denverpost.com/captured/2011/12/05/captured-pollution-in-china/5124/


and = http://www.google.com/search?q=chin...oD4Cw&sqi=2&ved=0CAQQ_AUoAA&biw=1920&bih=1002

Regulate pollution = cost money and in order to get the contracts to sell cheap stuffs in the US/EU and around the world, China is cutting corners and you can see the results from the links above. Sad for ordinary Chinese.

 

[Fanatical Meat]

Didn't they relocate the US embassy years ago to prevent us from measuring the pollution. I don't remember the details someone please enlighten me.