Just want to say that I hate China.

[fuzzybabybunny]

Welcome to the real world.

No fivebucks on each corner, eh? Poor, poor American baby.

There are Starbucks in all the major mall areas here (which is a lot - Chinese people love shopping for luxury goods). The city center has Starbucks in two of its four corners.

A small regular coffee is $3 USD. It's $1.60 in the US. You can buy a complete meal for $3 USD here. Despite this, Starbucks is still the cheapest place to get coffee. A small cup is usually $4 elsewhere.

A refill of coffee is $3. In the US it is $0.50, free if you have a gold card like myself.

I'm sitting at a Starbucks right now actually. It's right down the street from my hostel.

Another thing:

I really appreciate Starbucks. It's a place where people can sit down and get work done. The standards of cleanliness is above and beyond that of other Chinese coffee establishments. The bathroom doesn't smell of piss and the floors aren't soaked with some kind of liquid. It's more orderly. The internet is free and decently fast.

Best of all, people don't fucking smoke in Starbucks. There is smoke everywhere else in all the other coffee shops. Gotta love it when some asshole is chain smoking in the small cafe as you're sitting. Which happens every single time you go into another coffee shop. Chinese people LOVE to smoke indoors.

 

[Perknose]

I'm going to extend my stay for another month or so. A number of factors have forced me to stop what I'm doing and stay in one place, severely delaying my original timetable. So I need to extend.

You know, I used to be so jaded about our government. I saw it as slow and ineffective and completely controlled by those with too much money. I could have cared less if I moved somewhere else permanently.

Being in China has changed that. It has caused me to look back at our founding principles.

Our Bill of Rights.
Our Declaration of Independence.
Our Constitution.
The poem on the Statue of Liberty and what the statue herself represents.
Our system of checks and balances and rule of law.

We sure as hell aren't perfect. But as anyone should know, it's not about being perfect, it's about being able to do the responsible things when things go wrong or when things change. To change with the will of the people, not the will of one or a few. Our founding leaders implored this and tried to weave it into the very fabric of our foundation when they could have so easily used their leadership positions for selfish gains.

But instead they thought of us, the common people, of everyone.

This, I find beautiful.

:thumbsup:

Whiny bitches who post here in anger and in tears, please take note.

Perspective, bitches: gain some.

 

[EagleKeeper]

making ripoffs is great business in asia. forget coming up with your own original idea, just take one that already works and rely on nationalism for success

Not just nationalism. There are a number of factors:

1. Chinese people are by and large not creative. At all. Many Chinese exchange students and expats have lamented this fact. Their schooling and daily life rewards copying and rote memorization. Creativity and dissent is punished, or at the least, less rewarding than being unoriginal. Therefore, it's no wonder that so many good are just straight copies and following established recipes.

2. The Chinese automatically think that all Western goods are more desirable in terms of quality and in terms of looking good to other people. Chinese people love to look good to others. Again the "face" thing. Western style. Western quality. Western brands. It's no wonder that businesses copy what people envy. There is no reward for being original.

Are they aware that the much of what westerners wear comes from their own country?

Manufacturing vs design.
Status symbol is what counts - and are willing to pay for it.

Same attitude exists here in the US. Especially in the 30 and below crowd.

 

[fuzzybabybunny]

Another thing about a lot of Chinese. They only think of themselves.

The Starbucks has only one bathroom at the end of a short hallway. It's occupied, so I patiently wait about 4 feet from the door to give the person exiting some space. I wait for a few minutes and as soon as the person exists some 20-something year old walks past me and goes right into the bathroom.

Every time I'm standing in line at an ATM or a checkout lane or at a restaurant someone will cut right in front. I have to be within *inches* of the next person to prevent a cut. I'm not exaggerating. Literally, more than two inches and someone will insert themselves between you and the next person, sometimes pushing you back. This means that if you're at the ATM there are people standing two inches behind you as you input your PIN.

There's this whole "you have to fight for your place" mentality in China as a result of their huge population. People feel that if they wait for their turn they will never get their turn. And they won't, because others will take the opportunity to cut in front without waiting. It's a self-perpetuating cycle. If you're halfway respectful of others but still want to preserve your order, you have to constantly defend your spot, which means tailing the one in front of you.


The same goes for traffic. Cars just GO. They take whatever opening they can find. China is the only country I've found where you get a green arrow to turn left when there is direct oncoming traffic. You can also never reasonably assume that the way is clear if you have a green and the other side has a red. And in China pedestrians yield for the cars, not the other way around.

 

[ultimatebob]

Heh... I wouldn't be surprised if good ol' Fuzzy doesn't get sent to a "reeducation" camp for posting this from China.

A few months of building iPads for 90 hours a week at a Foxconn plant oughta teach 'em to keep in line

 

[bononos]

For as much as countries bitch about America. They all want to and try to be like us.

Its the sad truth.

Its even funny knowing citizens in other countries get emotionally involved with our election. Debating on sites, and arguing for each candidate.

When was the last time we debated about the Germany leadership? (etc.)

They do not want to blindly become Americans. They admire American ideals not American realpolitik.

I remember my (Asian) Indian colleague whose father was visiting during the '04 elections and they watched the Kerry/Bush debates and his dad said at the end "I suppose the American people will elect Kerry" whereupon my colleague laughed and said something to the effect that Americans are irrational and it was still up for grabs.

 

[andylawcc]

lol, OP is more white than a white person

 

[Vdubchaos]

Sounds like a really shitty country. I would get the F out.

 

[Capt Caveman]

Everything you posted is something that you should have known before you went there, so I don't know why you're bitching, especially that you're planning on extending your trip there.

For moral, ethical, political, etc. reasons, I would never go to China and give them my tourist dollars and/or risk being a Chinese dissident, too many better places to visit in the world.

 

[NikolaeVarius]

Government sucks.

Country is a fucking awesome. Other than the censorship stuff, most of your complaints could be applied to most every major city.

It's one of the best places to go in the world to visit and take in the culture. Nothing else in the world quite like it.

 

[Capt Caveman]

Another thing about a lot of Chinese. They only think of themselves.

The Starbucks has only one bathroom at the end of a short hallway. It's occupied, so I patiently wait about 4 feet from the door to give the person exiting some space. I wait for a few minutes and as soon as the person exists some 20-something year old walks past me and goes right into the bathroom.

Every time I'm standing in line at an ATM or a checkout lane or at a restaurant someone will cut right in front. I have to be within *inches* of the next person to prevent a cut. I'm not exaggerating. Literally, more than two inches and someone will insert themselves between you and the next person, sometimes pushing you back. This means that if you're at the ATM there are people standing two inches behind you as you input your PIN.

There's this whole "you have to fight for your place" mentality in China as a result of their huge population. People feel that if they wait for their turn they will never get their turn. And they won't, because others will take the opportunity to cut in front without waiting. It's a self-perpetuating cycle. If you're halfway respectful of others but still want to preserve your order, you have to constantly defend your spot, which means tailing the one in front of you.


The same goes for traffic. Cars just GO. They take whatever opening they can find. China is the only country I've found where you get a green arrow to turn left when there is direct oncoming traffic. You can also never reasonably assume that the way is clear if you have a green and the other side has a red. And in China pedestrians yield for the cars, not the other way around.

You should known that from living in the the Bay Area with all of the FOBs.

 

[IceBergSLiM]

if you were smart you would be capitalizing on their lax IP laws while their.

 

[fuzzybabybunny]

lol, OP is more white than a white person

I'm sure you didn't mean skin color.

I'm American.

That's all there is to it.

They do not want to blindly become Americans. They admire American ideals not American realpolitik.

I remember my (Asian) Indian colleague whose father was visiting during the '04 elections and they watched the Kerry/Bush debates and his dad said at the end "I suppose the American people will elect Kerry" whereupon my colleague laughed and said something to the effect that Americans are irrational and it was still up for grabs.

Yeah, it has always been the ideals that the people I've talked to admire. A get a lot of questions that follow the format "Americans believe in ____, right?"

____ could be religious freedom, the equality of everyone, the ability to "make it" through one's own hard work, freedom of speech, etc.

It's gotten me to question things. A lot of times I feel like we've lost the way. Sometimes I have to reply with "Yes, we SHOULD believe in that, we say we believe in that, but in reality...."

And this makes me sad and worried.

 

[lxskllr]

Another thing about a lot of Chinese. They only think of themselves.


Every time I'm standing in line at an ATM or a checkout lane or at a restaurant someone will cut right in front. I have to be within *inches* of the next person to prevent a cut. I'm not exaggerating. Literally, more than two inches and someone will insert themselves between you and the next person, sometimes pushing you back. This means that if you're at the ATM there are people standing two inches behind you as you input your PIN.

What happens if you employ violence, and yank the fucker out of line? I have little tolerance for rudeness, and I'd go ballistic if that happened more than once.

 

[Jeffg010]

"I've gotten my shit stolen."

I want to know about this what did you get stolen and how? Did you get robbed?

 

[Perknose]

"I've gotten my shit stolen."

I want to know about this what did you get stolen and how? Did you get robbed?

Perhaps he means that phrase literally, as in a band of public toilet thieves stole his "night soil" for fertilizer. D:

 

[Perknose]

They do not want to blindly become Americans. They admire American ideals not American realpolitik.

I remember my (Asian) Indian colleague whose father was visiting during the '04 elections and they watched the Kerry/Bush debates and his dad said at the end "I suppose the American people will elect Kerry" whereupon my colleague laughed and said something to the effect that Americans are irrational and it was still up for grabs.

:biggrin: :biggrin: :biggrin: :biggrin: :biggrin: :biggrin: :biggrin:

 

[Charles Kozierok]

I liked your earlier post that I reposted it on my politics forum. It's such a good reminder.

Hope you don't mind. I should have asked first but didn't, and I apologize for that. You weren't identified.

 

[Farmer]

The same goes for traffic. Cars just GO. They take whatever opening they can find. China is the only country I've found where you get a green arrow to turn left when there is direct oncoming traffic. You can also never reasonably assume that the way is clear if you have a green and the other side has a red. And in China pedestrians yield for the cars, not the other way around.

You should try India. Or Egypt. Or a dozen other countries. Trust me, they are far worse than China.

 

[preslove]

What work are you doing there OP? I thought you were running a successful real estate photography business back in the states?

 

[purbeast0]

thought you were in hawaii? why the hell would you leave hawaii for china?

 

[fuzzybabybunny]

What happens if you employ violence, and yank the fucker out of line? I have little tolerance for rudeness, and I'd go ballistic if that happened more than once.

I have no idea. But I've felt the strong desire to shove them the fuck back as well.

But I understand that this is just the way things are. People in the US know better. If they cut in line you're justified in putting them in their place. It's *common* courtesy.

But cutting is the norm in China. As hard as it is to imagine, they don't think that they are doing anything wrong. In fact, in their heads I bet they think they *need* to do it or else they'll miss the opportunity or something. Just as their belief that they will lose their place if they wait is so foreign to us, such is our belief that we will get our turn if we wait is foreign to them.

You can't justify shoving someone aside with force who doesn't even realize that they've done anything wrong.

 

[bononos]

"I've gotten my shit stolen."

I want to know about this what did you get stolen and how? Did you get robbed?

I don't think he got robbed (or his nightsoilD: stolen). It was probably something he left outside like a bike or something.

 

[Nintendesert]

You should try India. Or Egypt. Or a dozen other countries. Trust me, they are far worse than China.

Or New Orleans.

 

[fuzzybabybunny]

thought you were in hawaii? why the hell would you leave hawaii for china?

My business in Hawaii was done. And my parents were visiting China for the first time in 25 years, since they first came to this country. So I went.

"I've gotten my shit stolen."

I want to know about this what did you get stolen and how? Did you get robbed?

Most likely. The place I'm in now is notorious for pickpockets. All the locals I've talked to literally get a phone stolen every year. I'm a traveler and I have to have my camera equipment out to shoot photos. I can't help looking like a target. They unzipped my jacket pocket in an area in a small street where it was literally packed shoulder to shoulder bumping into hundreds of people and swiped my Nexus. I got a new Nexus and I now put it in an inside pocket in my jacket with a lanyard wrapped around my neck.

I liked your earlier post that I reposted it on my politics forum. It's such a good reminder.

Hope you don't mind. I should have asked first but didn't, and I apologize for that. You weren't identified.

Don't mind

You should try India. Or Egypt. Or a dozen other countries. Trust me, they are far worse than China.

I'm sure they are. At least the people in China look out for obstacles. They don't stop for them - they just weave around to avoid.

What work are you doing there OP? I thought you were running a successful real estate photography business back in the states?

I'm working on getting a photo processor in China. I've tried many times to hire photo processing in the States but the time is just horrendous - they always end up working at midnight to deliver our photos on schedule so they burn out and hate their job. China's time zone is much more conducive to my business (9PM in Cali is noon in Beijing, for example). That's really about it. The price isn't really a factor as much.

Actually, it is, but in a different way. There are a lot of good, decent people here. People just struggling to get by, people who I've met who I think will do the future good. A dollar goes a much longer way here than in the US. As far as bang for the buck in improving a person's life goes, China's got the US beat. $200 a week will absolutely flip someone's life around here. I'd like to give them the opportunity. Being an employer and having the capacity to affect other's people's lives through opportunity is not something I take lightly.

Tomorrow I will continue training the photo processor. My other photo processor has already stepped down.