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Just got Mozilla Firefox
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rh71
No Lifer
You didn't discredit / prove wrong a single thing I said in my last post... yet you call me clueless. 😕 Is that more false security to make yourself feel better ?
Stolen is stolen. IE stole too... MS stole too... does it make it less true ? Don't turn a blind eye just to prove your point. It wasn't even a big deal until you made it one. Is Firefox perfect to you ? Blinded by the I-want-to-be-different-bug I say. There are objective users and then there is you.
No you still need anti-spyware if your still using Windows. Internet Explorer is just one vector of attack.
There are still plenty of ways software can get installed on your computer without your knowledge or approval in Windows. Anti-spyware, anti-virus and good security practices are still needed, irregardless of what browser your using. But switching from IE would solve most of the problems I deal with when helping out friends and family with their computer problems.
And it doesn't even have to be Firefox or Mozilla. Mac users have the options of Safari and various other browsers, linux users have literally dozens of different browsers to choose from. Opera is a good browser, and Netscape from AOL is still something to use and has some extra Windows compatability stuff then Mozilla, which it is based off of nowadays. Just using most anything other then IE is good security policy.
As far as know-it-alls. Nobody knows it alls. When dealing with spyware and Windows in general stuff like Adaware and Spybot are very handy to have around and it's nice to recommend them to people who are experiancing problems.
Nothinman
Elite Member
They swear by them because they have to, it's impossible to get everyone to switch away from IE so they have to spend time figuring out how to undo all of the havoc it creates.
Mainly because your post was devoid of real content. It was really just a rant about how you're tired of seeing the posts praising Mozilla and how you think IE is so great because you can't see the buglist Microsoft has in-house.
I'm not, certain things are considered to be in the public domain and out of the bounds of copyright and I'm sure stupid things like ctrl+enter, ctrl+s, alt+tab are some of them. And I believe you can change the affect of ctrl+enter on Mozilla so that it will instead add .org, .net, etc instead of being tied to .com. It's a small difference but it's there.
I don't really know, I generally use Galeon. But I would probably say that I consider Galeon 99% complete.
Not that I want to be different, I'm just used to my computer working like I want it to. And honestly, if everyone was the same the world would be pretty boring.
Jeff7
Lifer
CTho9305, thanks for that link. I'll check out that page's source and see what I screwed up. 🙂
I did that as a high school project....think that was 5 years ago, before Jeff7.com existed; I had the site hosted on Tripod at the time, back before it became innundated with ads. I had just learned a bit of HTML programming; frames seemed nifty, so I gave them a shot.
Thus far, Firefox seems pretty good. A helluva lot better than Netscape was. I've been using IE since v3.02. I tried Netscape a few times, as it progressed from v4.x through to 7. I never really did like it. And it took about 200 hours just to load the program - IE just loaded so much quicker. But my recent infection with CoolWebSearch (may the creators of it rot in hell) has given me good motivation to dump IE. Sure, I can disable ActiveX, but then many things, like Flash, won't run at all. And having it ask permission...I need to click "Yes" at least once for nearly every page I visit. And if I get into that habit, I might let anything run, including that horrid CWS.
I did that as a high school project....think that was 5 years ago, before Jeff7.com existed; I had the site hosted on Tripod at the time, back before it became innundated with ads. I had just learned a bit of HTML programming; frames seemed nifty, so I gave them a shot.
Thus far, Firefox seems pretty good. A helluva lot better than Netscape was. I've been using IE since v3.02. I tried Netscape a few times, as it progressed from v4.x through to 7. I never really did like it. And it took about 200 hours just to load the program - IE just loaded so much quicker. But my recent infection with CoolWebSearch (may the creators of it rot in hell) has given me good motivation to dump IE. Sure, I can disable ActiveX, but then many things, like Flash, won't run at all. And having it ask permission...I need to click "Yes" at least once for nearly every page I visit. And if I get into that habit, I might let anything run, including that horrid CWS.
VirtualLarry
No Lifer
IMHO, that's one of the worst features in IE. I always hated that feature, because usually, the sole time that I used CTRL+N to open a new window, was because I wanted to immediately type in another URL in the address bar, and instead, I would have to wait for it to load the site all over again, into another window, and waste more memory doing so in the process. Why you would want the history of a newly-opened window to reflect that of an old window, I have no idea either.
I sincerely hope that Mozilla never adopts that misfeature. I really don't understand why IE did that in the first place, other than it made it easier to implement for the programmers.
VirtualLarry
No Lifer
"false sense of security"... is that the equivalent phrase to "fully-patched IE"?
VirtualLarry
No Lifer
The majority of "basic" keyboard shortcuts, were actually specified by IBM, in the CUA (common user access) guidelines, a long time ago. Most apps still conform to those, and Apple's default keyboard shortcuts too.
There was on on pivx.com, but as I understand it, MS forced them to take it down, I'm guessing for fear of legal action. (List of outstanding unpatched vulnerabilities on IE.)
Amen, preach it brother. Firefox == no spyware. IE == spyware/malware infestation extraordinare. Which would *you* choose? 🙂
That was only a known-to-the-public bug list, and only security holes. Mozilla's ENTIRE bug list (with feature requests, and all sorts of other junk) is available to the public.
Seems like a small nitpick. 😉
Ehh, I hate how IE does this because it does an HTTP refresh of the resource you're currently looking at. Why would I need two screens of the exact same page?
I use FireFox at work because it has more modest requirements, but I still prefer Mozilla. I'm sure FireFox can be tweaked to my liking, but I seem to be accustomed to Mozilla's default out-of-the-box behavior for years now.
VirtualLarry
No Lifer
The pivx.com list that I was talking about, applied to IE not Moz, just making that clear.
As for Moz's security bugs, those are actually NOT open to the public, they are limited to the Moz Security Team and the original submitter only. Sad but true. There is also a seperate Netscape bugzilla, that is also NOT open to the public. Some of the security bugs exist on that list only.
That's about right.
The reason people publish exploits has a long and varied history.
Originally people would notice problems with software, and most software was closed source. So you had no choice but to just complain to the software maker.
Of course that didn't work out. MS was the worst one, but others were nearly as bad. Sun for instance had serious known security bugs go unpatched for years at a time. Their reasoning was along the lines of "if nobody knows about it then it's not a security issue", they were just to busy to care.
So people were fed up of having to deal with insecure software began publishing stuff on mailing lists and whatnot about security problems. Still the software vendors did nothing to fix them. Instead they just started attacking the credibility of people, trying to make them sign NDA agreements, pay them off, or just threaten lawsuites. Still they did not fix their problems.
So now what people do is simply force their hand.
Customarially you find the problem, then figure out how to exploit it. Then you contact the software vendor and report the problem. If they do not fix it then you contact them again and say something along the lines of "you supply the patch, we are going public with this in 3 weeks", or whatnot. All of this is thought out in a way to try to aviod getting sued.
Then in three weeks you have to make good on your threat to stay credible, and you publish it. Anything else gets people pissed off at you.
So if there is a serious threat that gets published, about MS Windows, or any other software, it is very likely that the software vendor was aware of it for a long time before the fact.
of course this is normal polite customary way of doing stuff, but some people are just dicks and go around giving away exploits when they find out about them. For instance there was a vunerability discovered in IE from that leaked MS code a while back dealing with Gif images. The person that published that was just a a-hole.
Ya, your right. He figured out how to hack the protection on Adobe's propriatory ebook protection. He was from russia normally, but went to vegas for a Defcom... Then Adobe had the FBI arrest him.
morons.
And Adobe should know better then that... Look up computer font history and learn why we all use "Truetype" fonts developed by MS and Apple, instead of the Type 1 fonts developed by Adobe. If it wasn't Adobe sucking so much Type 1 fonts would still be the standard fonts and truetype probably would of never existed. (however people still think that type 1 fonts are superior, they aren't. It's just that MS's early rendering engines blew goats and lots of companies dumped huge amounts of junk truetype fonts on the world)
And look up crap about Adobe envoking the DMCA to protect embedded fonts to keep it's PDF racket going. If it wasn't for the right to reverse engineer companies like Bitstream probably wouldn't exist right now.
Adobe has had a long history of being dildos.
Fonts are weird because nobody thinks about them to much, but from research I did when learning about desktop publishing it seems that there history is a pre-cursor to all the DMCA, reverse engineer, protected formats crap we are going to start hearing more and more about. And dealing with.
Just think if people start making their own DMCA protected formats for everything.
Look at Tiff image format for instance. To many it's the "industry standard", and when I fooled around with that stuff I used tiff almost exclusively.
But what people don't realise is that those companies that do desktop publishing have horrors supporting that format because their are roughly 58 or so individual propriatory formats that call themselves "tiff" and are mostly incompatable. MS tiff, Adobe tiff, Apple tiff, etc etc etc. Just think if those companies invoked the DMCA on those things. Nobody would be able to do anything in the publishing world without handing over mountains of money to all these various vendors.
Thank god for PNG files.
Mem
Lifer
Lastnight I decided to play with Mozilla 1.7.1 ,bumping the cache up from 50mb to 400mb made a difference in speed on my PC,compared to IE6 I find it`s quicker for browsing.
So far all websites I`ve visited load fine,infact I tested the two sites that give me problems with Opera 7.51 and Mozilla loaded fine.
I`ll say this,Mozilla has improved from the lastime I used it,still prefer Mozilla over Firefox(tried that lastweek).
So far all websites I`ve visited load fine,infact I tested the two sites that give me problems with Opera 7.51 and Mozilla loaded fine.
I`ll say this,Mozilla has improved from the lastime I used it,still prefer Mozilla over Firefox(tried that lastweek).
VirtualLarry
No Lifer
"Rogue organization"? It was (is) a 3rd-party security consulting firm.
Certainly you are right, it wouldn't have been nearly as "complete" as any internal bug-tracking list from MS itself, but that list is certainly MS-private, whereas this other list served a valuable purpose - letting end-users know, that there is a list of known security defects in the software in question.
I'm guessing that MS didn't exactly like the fact that other companies were pointing out serious defects in their "pride and joy", IE, because some users might get smart, and stop using it.
You know, one of the key events that helped end slavery in this country, was that they (the slaves) started to educate themselves, even against the will of their masters, and of the structures of society in general, that supported the oppression of the slaves, and assisted their masters.
I see the laws protecting the corporate masters, and keeping the users (feudal servants/slaves) uneducated at the same time.
If you are not allowed to "look under the hood" youself, nor is anyone else allowed to communicate what they have found out, then how can anyone educate themselves (with regards to technological systems)?
This present time really is the "new age of feudalism". Open-source OSes like Linux, are very much like the revolutions, that finally allowed peasant landowners to own their own "homes". It's really sad, and a disturbing blow to "freedom", when so many in industry and gov't are arguing directly against allowing private ownership of one's own computer and the software (OS) that drives it, instead attempting to mandate that one "lease" that OS from a gov't-approved "feudal lord" (aka MS).
We really need to have a "F the Dmca day" - call it "Worldwide reverse-engineering day", and every techie should pick a piece of software or something technology related, and reverse-engineer it, and disclose the results that they find out to the world, *regardless* of any sort of legal prohibitions against the discovery of such knowledge.
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