Just got a powerbook.... OS X rant

[GL]

Ok my mistake. They're on the disk and they were installed the first ever time I put OpenBSD on a computer. But the base install (note I didn't say base install but standard install) probably doesn't have XFree86 let alone KDE included. If you want to get into details like this, I could argue that SnapIT shouldn't hold Aqua or any of the UI functionality against OS X so long as he just boots into the CLI.

Regardless, this doesn't take away from my point to SnapIT. BSD ports are not part of "standard UNIX". But they're a good thing and I'm glad FreeBSD, OpenBSD and the like have included them. They're a step in the right direction and hopefully Darwin ports will become standard on OS X (Apple has said as much too). Slagging an OS because it includes non-standard UNIX stuff, which many do these days is ridiculous. As i've pointed out, Apple's non-standard stuff was 19 times out of 20 built on top of the "standard UNIX" infrastructure anyways.

 

[n0cmonkey]

Originally posted by: GL
Ok my mistake. They're on the disk and they were installed the first ever time I put OpenBSD on a computer. But the base install (note I didn't say base install but standard install) probably doesn't have XFree86 let alone KDE included.

Ok, I considered the base and standard to be the same thing. If you tell the installer to install all of the packages it can, KDE will still not be included. Unless this is something they changed for 3.3, there has never been a version since 2.6 (when I started using OpenBSD) that has installed KDE. If you need developer confirmation I can get it.

If you want to get into details like this, I could argue that SnapIT shouldn't hold Aqua or any of the UI functionality against OS X so long as he just boots into the CLI.

I don't think you should hold an OS responsible for 3rd party software you install yourself .

Regardless, this doesn't take away from my point to SnapIT. BSD ports are not part of "standard UNIX".

You are right. But many Real Unix [TM] systems have their own package management utilities. Look at pkgadd/pkgrm/pkginfo (sound familiar?) in Solaris.

 

[SnapIT]

Originally posted by: n0cmonkey

Originally posted by: SnapIT

Originally posted by: n0cmonkey

Originally posted by: SnapIT
GNU= Gnu's Not Unix

OSX= Os SuX

I guess that ends any hope for any discussion.

I assume it does... as i really hate OSX.... i cannot think of one feature i like about it, and i tried, yes i was told it was so great... i just hate it...

What is it you want to discuss, you like it, i hate it, i hate everything about it, i hate how it installs programs, i hate how it remove programs (leaving half of the files behind) i hate that it thinks it is a new system of some sorts for ever damn upgrade making it impossible for phoenix programmers to keep up even with the smaller changes...

I hate the whole system, i just do... it's not that i don't understand it, it's just the most idiotic thing i have ever worked with...

I like OpenBSD and KDE on my powerbook, i will probably migrate to rock linux eventually, but as i want to learn Open now... this is an opportunity for me to do so...

Let me know when you can get a stable native Pheonix port to OpenBSD.

Download the latest CVS...

 

[GL]

Originally posted by: n0cmonkey

Originally posted by: GL
Ok my mistake. They're on the disk and they were installed the first ever time I put OpenBSD on a computer. But the base install (note I didn't say base install but standard install) probably doesn't have XFree86 let alone KDE included.

Ok, I considered the base and standard to be the same thing. If you tell the installer to install all of the packages it can, KDE will still not be included. Unless this is something they changed for 3.3, there has never been a version since 2.6 (when I started using OpenBSD) that has installed KDE. If you need developer confirmation I can get it.

Don't bother;-) I just checked my disk (which I obtained from a friend) and it has got the KDE packages thrown in there. It's not the standard ISOs after all.

If you want to get into details like this, I could argue that SnapIT shouldn't hold Aqua or any of the UI functionality against OS X so long as he just boots into the CLI.

I don't think you should hold an OS responsible for 3rd party software you install yourself .

Neither do I. But it is this specific combination (OpenBSD and KDE) that SnapIT compared to OS X. So I think it's fair game in this instance.

Regardless, this doesn't take away from my point to SnapIT. BSD ports are not part of "standard UNIX".

You are right. But many Real Unix [TM] systems have their own package management utilities. Look at pkgadd/pkgrm/pkginfo (sound familiar?) in Solaris.

Yup though I do have a preference for the ports system

Anyways, I can't wait to receive my NeXT Cube in the next few weeks. Finally, I'll have a "real" UNIX on my desktop;-)

 

[SnapIT]

Originally posted by: GL
Actually you do misunderstand OS X SnapIT. You sound like you're a bandwagon *NIX user, which is why you immediately dismissed the points I brought up about Apple's UNIX contributions. I don't use OpenBSD for my primary computer for the same reasons you don't use OS X. These reasons are largely down to personal preference. But I don't slag the underlying architecture of OpenBSD. Honestly, do you know anything about what you're talking with regards to OS X or even BSD once you get to a lower level than the CLI? What you've largely done is akin to saying you don't like the particular style of an automobile, but attribute your dislike to what's under the hood. And you haven't even shown that you have any idea what's under the hood. Or perhaps I've gotten it all wrong, in which case you should probably explain to me how Apple isn't sticking to the standards of UNIX but OpenBSD is with its BSD ports and inclusion of C++ based KDE.

As n0cmonkey has argued most of my points, i don't see any use of arguing further... there IS a difference between what you can intall if you want to and what you are forced to install...

If you clean OSX up so you have only CLI and install KDE you will have a FreeBSD install... and you payed for that software...

 

[n0cmonkey]

Originally posted by: SnapIT

Originally posted by: GL
Actually you do misunderstand OS X SnapIT. You sound like you're a bandwagon *NIX user, which is why you immediately dismissed the points I brought up about Apple's UNIX contributions. I don't use OpenBSD for my primary computer for the same reasons you don't use OS X. These reasons are largely down to personal preference. But I don't slag the underlying architecture of OpenBSD. Honestly, do you know anything about what you're talking with regards to OS X or even BSD once you get to a lower level than the CLI? What you've largely done is akin to saying you don't like the particular style of an automobile, but attribute your dislike to what's under the hood. And you haven't even shown that you have any idea what's under the hood. Or perhaps I've gotten it all wrong, in which case you should probably explain to me how Apple isn't sticking to the standards of UNIX but OpenBSD is with its BSD ports and inclusion of C++ based KDE.

As n0cmonkey has argued most of my points, i don't see any use of arguing further... there IS a difference between what you can intall if you want to and what you are forced to install...

If you clean OSX up so you have only CLI and install KDE you will have a FreeBSD install... and you payed for that software...

No, you have Free/Net/Open BSD userland.

 

[n0cmonkey]

Originally posted by: GL

Originally posted by: n0cmonkey

Originally posted by: GL
Ok my mistake. They're on the disk and they were installed the first ever time I put OpenBSD on a computer. But the base install (note I didn't say base install but standard install) probably doesn't have XFree86 let alone KDE included.

Ok, I considered the base and standard to be the same thing. If you tell the installer to install all of the packages it can, KDE will still not be included. Unless this is something they changed for 3.3, there has never been a version since 2.6 (when I started using OpenBSD) that has installed KDE. If you need developer confirmation I can get it.

Don't bother;-) I just checked my disk (which I obtained from a friend) and it has got the KDE packages thrown in there. It's not the standard ISOs after all.

Like I said, its included in packages and ports (and probably even on the disk), but it is not installed by the installer.

If you want to get into details like this, I could argue that SnapIT shouldn't hold Aqua or any of the UI functionality against OS X so long as he just boots into the CLI.

I don't think you should hold an OS responsible for 3rd party software you install yourself .

Neither do I. But it is this specific combination (OpenBSD and KDE) that SnapIT compared to OS X. So I think it's fair game in this instance.

Regardless, this doesn't take away from my point to SnapIT. BSD ports are not part of "standard UNIX".

You are right. But many Real Unix [TM] systems have their own package management utilities. Look at pkgadd/pkgrm/pkginfo (sound familiar?) in Solaris.

Yup though I do have a preference for the ports system

Anyways, I can't wait to receive my NeXT Cube in the next few weeks. Finally, I'll have a "real" UNIX on my desktop;-)

Was NeXT Step officially a Unix?

 

[SnapIT]

Originally posted by: n0cmonkey

Originally posted by: SnapIT

Originally posted by: GL
Actually you do misunderstand OS X SnapIT. You sound like you're a bandwagon *NIX user, which is why you immediately dismissed the points I brought up about Apple's UNIX contributions. I don't use OpenBSD for my primary computer for the same reasons you don't use OS X. These reasons are largely down to personal preference. But I don't slag the underlying architecture of OpenBSD. Honestly, do you know anything about what you're talking with regards to OS X or even BSD once you get to a lower level than the CLI? What you've largely done is akin to saying you don't like the particular style of an automobile, but attribute your dislike to what's under the hood. And you haven't even shown that you have any idea what's under the hood. Or perhaps I've gotten it all wrong, in which case you should probably explain to me how Apple isn't sticking to the standards of UNIX but OpenBSD is with its BSD ports and inclusion of C++ based KDE.

As n0cmonkey has argued most of my points, i don't see any use of arguing further... there IS a difference between what you can intall if you want to and what you are forced to install...

If you clean OSX up so you have only CLI and install KDE you will have a FreeBSD install... and you payed for that software...

No, you have Free/Net/Open BSD userland.

Except the cli utils were derived from Free... sooo...

 

[n0cmonkey]

Originally posted by: SnapIT

Originally posted by: n0cmonkey

Originally posted by: SnapIT

Originally posted by: GL
Actually you do misunderstand OS X SnapIT. You sound like you're a bandwagon *NIX user, which is why you immediately dismissed the points I brought up about Apple's UNIX contributions. I don't use OpenBSD for my primary computer for the same reasons you don't use OS X. These reasons are largely down to personal preference. But I don't slag the underlying architecture of OpenBSD. Honestly, do you know anything about what you're talking with regards to OS X or even BSD once you get to a lower level than the CLI? What you've largely done is akin to saying you don't like the particular style of an automobile, but attribute your dislike to what's under the hood. And you haven't even shown that you have any idea what's under the hood. Or perhaps I've gotten it all wrong, in which case you should probably explain to me how Apple isn't sticking to the standards of UNIX but OpenBSD is with its BSD ports and inclusion of C++ based KDE.

As n0cmonkey has argued most of my points, i don't see any use of arguing further... there IS a difference between what you can intall if you want to and what you are forced to install...

If you clean OSX up so you have only CLI and install KDE you will have a FreeBSD install... and you payed for that software...

No, you have Free/Net/Open BSD userland.

Except the cli utils were derived from Free... sooo...

I remember seeing Net and Open Copyright notices in some of those files. I could be wrong though.

 

[SnapIT]

This is killing the debate, so if i install BASE OSX what do i get? do i get a GUI? do i get to choose WHICH gui? do i even get to choose which apps and how the gui should behave?

I do an install of OpenBSD, what do i get, do i get a gui? no, i install a guil, do i get to choose WHICH gui? of course, do i get to choose which apps and how the gui should behave... well yeah...

Superiority because you can choose just about any and everything... i run fluxbox for games, because it is fast, i like KDE on my office account, i might use another account for CLI purposes... i do it all at the same time and all of it works just fine...

This is personal preference in many cases, i hate everything about OSX, i hate everything about NetBSD's install and Debians install... i dislike OpenBSD's install, but it is ok, i love FreeBSD's install and i love Slackwares install...

I could probably run NetBSD or Debian, but OSX never stops being terrible, it's just a horrible attempt of an OS in my eyes...

 

[n0cmonkey]

Originally posted by: SnapIT
This is killing the debate, so if i install BASE OSX what do i get? do i get a GUI? do i get to choose WHICH gui? do i even get to choose which apps and how the gui should behave?

I do an install of OpenBSD, what do i get, do i get a gui? no, i install a guil, do i get to choose WHICH gui? of course, do i get to choose which apps and how the gui should behave... well yeah...

Superiority because you can choose just about any and everything... i run fluxbox for games, because it is fast, i like KDE on my office account, i might use another account for CLI purposes... i do it all at the same time and all of it works just fine...

This is personal preference in many cases, i hate everything about OSX, i hate everything about NetBSD's install and Debians install... i dislike OpenBSD's install, but it is ok, i love FreeBSD's install and i love Slackwares install...

I could probably run NetBSD or Debian, but OSX never stops being terrible, it's just a horrible attempt of an OS in my eyes...

It isn't geared towards someone like you. Stop worrying about it and let the morons that like it use it in peace. The high horse died a long time ago. Get off it.

 

[SnapIT]

Originally posted by: n0cmonkey

Originally posted by: SnapIT
This is killing the debate, so if i install BASE OSX what do i get? do i get a GUI? do i get to choose WHICH gui? do i even get to choose which apps and how the gui should behave?

I do an install of OpenBSD, what do i get, do i get a gui? no, i install a guil, do i get to choose WHICH gui? of course, do i get to choose which apps and how the gui should behave... well yeah...

Superiority because you can choose just about any and everything... i run fluxbox for games, because it is fast, i like KDE on my office account, i might use another account for CLI purposes... i do it all at the same time and all of it works just fine...

This is personal preference in many cases, i hate everything about OSX, i hate everything about NetBSD's install and Debians install... i dislike OpenBSD's install, but it is ok, i love FreeBSD's install and i love Slackwares install...

I could probably run NetBSD or Debian, but OSX never stops being terrible, it's just a horrible attempt of an OS in my eyes...

It isn't geared towards someone like you. Stop worrying about it and let the morons that like it use it in peace. The high horse died a long time ago. Get off it.

point taken... and i am out of this thread...

 

[drag]

BTW, i don't know if anybody already said it, but safari is a ported version of the KDE konquerer web browser, I believe. So the bookmarks are probably held in the same manner

 

[drag]

I don't care what snapit thinks. OS X rocks. I have to administrate over a hundred (very unusual I know) Network'd OS X's. These are used by art students with minimal supervision and training, they do all sorts of unholy abuse and insanity on them. Moving the application folders, running them in OS 9 and deleting OS x files. Turning it off improperly... repeatedly.

No matter how much you tell them no matter how many times you explain to them there will be a few weirdos that refuse to get it.

Hell, I could teach a 10 year old to effectively administrate a single workstation.

LOOK it's different. It's a different OS and has a different way of doing some things. After you get used to it it's actually enjoyable. Today for instance I was able to use the remote desktop to upgrade and configure close to forty workstations in a days work, the important stuff was done in less then 2 hours. And tomorrow I will do it again.

Some of these G4's are close to 4 years old with constant and abusive usage, since I've worked here (close to six months) I maybe had to 3 times reinstall the OS. Everything else could be fixed, sometimes it was a struggle and they can be a PITA when not working, but they can be fixed.

If you can't adjust your thinking to fit a new enviroment or change to suit a different way of doing things then that's your problem not the OS's. Sure if you don't like it then don't use it, it would be retarded to do otherwise, but to come here and freak out with out even willing to discuss it like a sane individual you are just acting like a jackass.

Hell, I don't even come close to bashing MS that bad even on my worst days.

 

[Spyro]

Originally posted by: drag
BTW, i don't know if anybody already said it, but safari is a ported version of the KDE konquerer web browser, I believe. So the bookmarks are probably held in the same manner

It is? Interesting......

 

[SnapIT]

Originally posted by: drag
I don't care what snapit thinks. OS X rocks. I have to administrate over a hundred (very unusual I know) Network'd OS X's. These are used by art students with minimal supervision and training, they do all sorts of unholy abuse and insanity on them. Moving the application folders, running them in OS 9 and deleting OS x files. Turning it off improperly... repeatedly.

No matter how much you tell them no matter how many times you explain to them there will be a few weirdos that refuse to get it.

Hell, I could teach a 10 year old to effectively administrate a single workstation.

LOOK it's different. It's a different OS and has a different way of doing some things. After you get used to it it's actually enjoyable. Today for instance I was able to use the remote desktop to upgrade and configure close to forty workstations in a days work, the important stuff was done in less then 2 hours. And tomorrow I will do it again.

Some of these G4's are close to 4 years old with constant and abusive usage, since I've worked here (close to six months) I maybe had to 3 times reinstall the OS. Everything else could be fixed, sometimes it was a struggle and they can be a PITA when not working, but they can be fixed.

If you can't adjust your thinking to fit a new enviroment or change to suit a different way of doing things then that's your problem not the OS's. Sure if you don't like it then don't use it, it would be retarded to do otherwise, but to come here and freak out with out even willing to discuss it like a sane individual you are just acting like a jackass.

Hell, I don't even come close to bashing MS that bad even on my worst days.

Hey, i gave my insight, you gave yours, we disagree, who is right? well, for me and the people i work with, i'm right, for you and the people you work with you are right... is that fair enough for you?

OSX sucks, it doesn't just suck a bit, or a lot, it sucks in every way it can suck, that is what i think, is that ok if i think so, i have used it, i have even developed programs for it, i still think it sucks, that is my opinion, can i have my opinion... thanx...

Now does this make me a jackass, why? because i do not agree with your opinion... think about it... jackass...

 

[SnapIT]

Originally posted by: Spyro

Originally posted by: drag
BTW, i don't know if anybody already said it, but safari is a ported version of the KDE konquerer web browser, I believe. So the bookmarks are probably held in the same manner

It is? Interesting......

Why konquerer always sucked, try a real browser... try phoenix..

 

[GL]

Oh SnapIT you can't even keep your own word to stay out of the thread. Why don't you make yourself feel special and make world or something.

As for Safari, the only thing it has in common with Konqueror is the rendering engine. It uses WebCore which is based on KHTML.

 

[Spyro]

Originally posted by: SnapIT

Originally posted by: Spyro

Originally posted by: drag
BTW, i don't know if anybody already said it, but safari is a ported version of the KDE konquerer web browser, I believe. So the bookmarks are probably held in the same manner

It is? Interesting......

Why konquerer always sucked, try a real browser... try phoenix..

I use mozilla.

 

[HarryAngel]

Originally posted by: SnapIT

Originally posted by: Spyro

Originally posted by: drag
BTW, i don't know if anybody already said it, but safari is a ported version of the KDE konquerer web browser, I believe. So the bookmarks are probably held in the same manner

It is? Interesting......

Why konquerer always sucked, try a real browser... try phoenix..

Not to nitpick but, 2003-04-15: Phoenix renamed to Mozilla Firebird

 

[SnapIT]

Originally posted by: GL
Oh SnapIT you can't even keep your own word to stay out of the thread. Why don't you make yourself feel special and make world or something.

As for Safari, the only thing it has in common with Konqueror is the rendering engine. It uses WebCore which is based on KHTML.

Oh, excuuuuuse me if i bothered you, you know what, in the future, just don't read my posts, that way you could be a happier individual...

 

[Spyro]

Originally posted by: HarryAngel

Originally posted by: SnapIT

Originally posted by: Spyro

Originally posted by: drag
BTW, i don't know if anybody already said it, but safari is a ported version of the KDE konquerer web browser, I believe. So the bookmarks are probably held in the same manner

It is? Interesting......

Why konquerer always sucked, try a real browser... try phoenix..

Not to nitpick but, 2003-04-15: Phoenix renamed to Mozilla Firebird

I wonder how long this name will stick :/

 

[SnapIT]

Originally posted by: HarryAngel

Originally posted by: SnapIT

Originally posted by: Spyro

Originally posted by: drag
BTW, i don't know if anybody already said it, but safari is a ported version of the KDE konquerer web browser, I believe. So the bookmarks are probably held in the same manner

It is? Interesting......

Why konquerer always sucked, try a real browser... try phoenix..

Not to nitpick but, 2003-04-15: Phoenix renamed to Mozilla Firebird

Yeah, and as one of the developers i do believe i have the right to call it whatever i want, the name MozillaFirebird (no space) is just stupid...

So i will continue to call it phoenix, as one of the people who developed it, i do believe i have a right to call it whatever i want...

 

[Spyro]

Originally posted by: SnapIT

Originally posted by: GL
Oh SnapIT you can't even keep your own word to stay out of the thread. Why don't you make yourself feel special and make world or something.

As for Safari, the only thing it has in common with Konqueror is the rendering engine. It uses WebCore which is based on KHTML.

Oh, excuuuuuse me if i bothered you, you know what, in the future, just don't read my posts, that way you could be a happier individual...

I think you both should stop reading each others posts.

*STOP POSTING*

 

[SnapIT]

Actually spyro, i have a lot to learn from GL, and he has probably got a lot to learn from me, if we could just keep it civil... but we cannot because he insists on disagreeing... he should stop doing that...

Look at you and me Spyro, we had a disagreement that ended in an agreement... that was cool... you know stuff i don't and i know stuff you don't... this is a forum where people learn instead of pros bashing other pros right? i'll shake GL's hand if he will shake mine...