Just another ignorant troll thread

[alchemize]

Originally posted by: halik

Originally posted by: alchemize

Originally posted by: 1EZduzit


I think sense is more important then cents. If you want to single out groups then fine, let's start the insanity. Anybody who gets AIDS is on their own damit, anybody who fries their liver is own their own. If you've got bad genes in your family why should I have to pay for your aleriges/ailments/heart transplant/bypasses?? It's not my problem.

I could go on and on and on.

Gotta start somewhere in improving the health of our nation, might as well start with the #1 (controllable) health issue - obesity. Wringing your liberal hands doesn't burn calories for anyone but yourself. Bankruptcy via gluttony, the American Way!

And yes, I would say that heavy drinkers should also pay higher premiums, as should smokers. Probably could stop the line drawing there, since that probably represents some huge portion of cost.

What's your solution for improving the obesity problem? Can't wait to hear this one...

You know I would think that conservatives are on average more obese than liberals. What was the last time you saw a 400lb hippie? (No kennedy jokes plz )

I think economical pressure is a good way to do these kinda things - taxes on alkie, cigarettes work as a disincentive for those activities. We could tax strictly bad food (ranch dressing, sour cream, donuts etc) and add more pay-for-your-fat-ass rules a la Southwest airlines.

I prefer incentives to disincentives. Shift farm subsidies to organic and whole foods. Offer government/company sponsored weight loss programs.

Maybe instead of paying higher premiums, offer discounts to those who keep their body fat down.

Something needs to be done.

 

[Luckyboy1]

Sorry, I'm a paragraph challenged person, so I'm sorry for the results, but will try harder as the pay increases around here!

The problem isn't this or that diet or exercize program. Most can add up kilocalories eaten and kolicalories burned.

The problem is sticking with it when you can't sleep, can't think of anything else but eating, your guts crawl and turn and make noises you can hear across the room and it is very painfull. Do this for 5 years straight!... it simply won't happen in any statistically significant way.

35 pounds? If you are an average U.S. male at 5' 10" tall, 35 pounds means you are at best borderline clinically obese. I'm not talking about those people, but dieting has been shown over and over gain to turn those people into truly clinically obese people.

Think anyone isn't aware they weigh like 300, 400 or more pounds? Trust me, they might not be the brightest kid on the block, but nobody needs to fork over a quarter to buy 'em a clue!

Ewe, he's so fat and disgusting! :disgust:

Hey Sherlock, what was your first clue?

And these children
That you spit on
As they try and change their world

Are immune
To your consultations
They're quite aware of what they're going through!

Changes by David Bowie!


I still pray for forgiveness for giving a childhood classmate, a young lady of 4 foot nothing and 300 pounds a hard time! I still pray and wonder if the sin can ever be washed away!

 

[Steeplerot]

Weight loss and a better world in a few easy steps.

1. Do something useful and burn off some fat/agression with your TV
2. Sell your car
3. Go ride a bike
4. Increase your muscle/brain size
5. ....
6. Profit!

 

[Jeff7]

Once you hit like 300lbs or are unable to see to your own crotch, isn't that like a sign that maybe, just maybe, you might be just a wee bit overweight.

 

[Cerb]

Originally posted by: Banzai042
Funny how "chronic obesity that the patent can't do anything about" seems to be an exclusivly american phenomenon. Sure, genetics and such can have an impact on it, but there is something called "at least try to do something about it." Seriously, are other countries needing to rebuild hospitals so that they can accomidate all of the 500 lb patents they get?

Do other countries have as many people under constant job stress, with easy access to comfort foods that are very bad for you, and raiaing people not to actually think, but just do what they need to feel comfortable at the current moment?

1) There is absolutley NO scientific evidence based on 5 year, double and triple blind emperical studies, which are the standard in medicine by the way... no evidence that dieting leads to long term weight loss... none!

That's because such people go on a diet just to lose weight, and do nothing but diet, depriving themselves in the process.

The people I know who have been successful on diets, even my own meeger attempts, have not removed joy of food from their lives. Cut portions, yes. Cut some really bad stuff (HFCS), yes. Added things they didn't eat before (Oat meal, FI), yes.

A magic bullet does not exist. But that is what sheeple want. A magic bullet can help, but it won't solve the problem.

 

[arsbanned]

Originally posted by: Bowfinger

Originally posted by: zendari
I guess its no wonder hospital costs are increasing now that everything has to be supersized. It's unfortunate that our society is catering to the fatties and their lives of gluttony.

You certainly are a hateful little troll. Get help.

The fact that he is attacking Bush's base is a hoot as well.

 

[ChiPCGuy]

I can speak from experience on this one. I used to weigh 425lbs. I now weight 153 (as of this morning). It took me four years to lose it through calorie control and exercise and SHEER FORCE OF WILL alone. I have been maintaining at a steady 150-153lbs for nearly two years now.

How did I do it? Simple, I ate less and became more active.

Why did I do it? If I ever wanted to get a boyfriend, I had no choice. I also turned 30 and that triggered the crisis that caused me to become determined.

Change comes from within. Nobody can lose weight for you. I am unique though in that I realized that I really do have the power to take control and do something about it. I am fortunate that I had a couple of crisis type things (turning 30, plus gay with no boyfriend and in my mind you cannot get one at 425lbs) that helped me.

Obesity is a mental health issue, in my opinion.

HOWEVER, I don't want to over-simplify the issue here. My situation is unique. My focus and will are unique. I have mild OCD that I was able to leverage against my weight. I used one mental health issue to control another. I turned it on itself. I was taking Paxil for the OCD, and intentionally ceased taking it in order to use the OCD to become neurotic about weight loss.

This has consequences, though. Weight loss has some serious consequences that I did not know about, and no one ever warned me about. Image, if you will:

1. Getting out of bed one day and having trouble coming to terms with who you are looking at in the mirror. You develop, for a time, a disconnect from what you look like to what you think you look like.
2. I need to go through $20,000 of elective surgery to correct skin that did not snap back. It is primarily in the midsection, and not noticable until I take my shirt off. Perverse in that I am just as unlikely to take my shirt off now in public as I was at 425lbs.
3. You have to learn to live life all over again. For me, it was actually the beginning of HOW to really live at all. I walked into a club for the first time at the age of 32. I finally came out of the closet at 33. Talk about a non-life up until then. I missed my 20's and want them back, but will never get them back (this caused regret and a great deal of pain as I realized what I missed).

Depression feeds a need to eat (you are, in effect, self medicating because eating can release dopamine in your system from the pleasure of taste). This causes a weight gain if you are not active. You gain more weight and become more depressed and eat even more therefore gain yet more weight and the cycle spirals out of control at some point, which is how some people get to 700lbs. I was headed there.

 

[zendari]

Originally posted by: Rainsford

Originally posted by: loki8481
what if someone wanted to take the step to get gastric bypass or something to lose the weight but couldn't get through the hospital door?

hospitals are businesses. they cater to their clients.

I would think zendari would love this, after all, it's the free market.

It's only a free market when the people using such services are footing the bill.

 

[zendari]

Originally posted by: 1EZduzit

Originally posted by: alchemize
So make it about cents, and maybe couch potatoes will get some sense. The only thing that comes between a man and his fried cheese curds is his wallet.

I think sense is more important then cents. If you want to single out groups then fine, let's start the insanity. Anybody who gets AIDS is on their own damit, anybody who fries their liver is own their own. If you've got bad genes in your family why should I have to pay for your aleriges/ailments/heart transplant/bypasses?? It's not my problem.

I could go on and on and on.

We single out younger/ticketed/risky/male drivers for car insurance. What's the problem?

 

[ChiPCGuy]

Originally posted by: zendari

Originally posted by: Rainsford

Originally posted by: loki8481
what if someone wanted to take the step to get gastric bypass or something to lose the weight but couldn't get through the hospital door?

hospitals are businesses. they cater to their clients.

I would think zendari would love this, after all, it's the free market.

It's only a free market when the people using such services are footing the bill.

As I said Zendari, obesity is a serious mental health issue from my perspective. The symptom is the health issues it creates. You have no issue with taxes supporting suicide hotlines or other items related to mental health?

I think the key here is we need to stop focusing on the symptoms and start attacking the problem.

Lack of understanding for mental health issues is what resulted in insane asylums. We now treat people for the purposes of recovery these days--not dump them off in some asylum.

 

[ChiPCGuy]

Originally posted by: zendari

Originally posted by: 1EZduzit

Originally posted by: alchemize
So make it about cents, and maybe couch potatoes will get some sense. The only thing that comes between a man and his fried cheese curds is his wallet.

I think sense is more important then cents. If you want to single out groups then fine, let's start the insanity. Anybody who gets AIDS is on their own damit, anybody who fries their liver is own their own. If you've got bad genes in your family why should I have to pay for your aleriges/ailments/heart transplant/bypasses?? It's not my problem.

I could go on and on and on.

We single out younger/ticketed/risky/male drivers for car insurance. What's the problem?

Younger, ticketed, risky male drivers are not suffering from a fundamental mental health issue.

 

[3chordcharlie]

Originally posted by: Luckyboy1
What's your solution for improving the obesity problem? Can't wait to hear this one...


My multiple years of Emergency Medical service and training have led me to two absolute facts that are completely at opposites of each other...

1) There is absolutley NO scientific evidence based on 5 year, double and triple blind emperical studies, which are the standard in medicine by the way... no evidence that dieting leads to long term weight loss... none!

This means go on a diet today and in 5 years, you will weigh more. I know someone's going to say they beat the curve and that's interesting, but not scientifically usefull information.

The best theory as to why has to do with the starvation reflex. It all goes back to the caveman type thing. Game is plentyfull, so you feast and pack on a few pounds because your body needs a few pounds to ake it through the lean times. Diet sooner than the game runs out or the fields go empty and your body goes...

IIRC the only dieting program with the any proven long-term success is weight-watchers, and the results were extremely modest, like an average of 5-pounds of maintained weight loss.

It takes a lot of willpower to change your weight.

 

[DealMonkey]

Originally posted by: zendari

Originally posted by: Rainsford

Originally posted by: loki8481
what if someone wanted to take the step to get gastric bypass or something to lose the weight but couldn't get through the hospital door?

hospitals are businesses. they cater to their clients.

I would think zendari would love this, after all, it's the free market.

It's only a free market when the people using such services are footing the bill.

No, it's a free market decision because some hospitals (which are businesses remember?) have decided to give themselves a competitive advantage by adding ammenities that our gloriously obese populace find necessary. What makes you think those fatass patients that take advantage of such faciliites aren't being billed for it?

 

[kogase]

"I believe in dignity for whomever you are," Henk said.

I don't, some people are just too disgusting. I agree with Zendari here.

 

[ChiPCGuy]

What makes you think those fatass patients that take advantage of such faciliites aren't being billed for it?

This is the kind of thinking which leads no where. Those "fatass" people as you call them feel totally powerless to change. They don't know HOW. It is because you have to come to the realization that you are dealing with a mental health issue and NOT a "lazy American" issue here. The FDA food pyramid is a JOKE. Most doctors and nutritionists have NO IDEA WHAT THE ****** they are talking about. I know. You have to have been there, done that, in order to speak intelligently at all about this subject.

My situation, as I said, is unique. It does still give me a unique insight into what it feels like to believe you are powerless to change something.

 

[ChiPCGuy]

I notice that Zendari is not bothering to reply to the one person in this thread who has been to "hell and back" on this issue and brings true insight into what is going on. Perhaps because I am gay? Hmmmmm.

Ignorance prefers to remain status-quo: ignorant. No matter the subject. Anything else requires critical thinking and challenging your own assumptions.

 

[3chordcharlie]

Originally posted by: Rainsford
As to the topic, I think obesity is a problem as much as anybody else, but what makes this a unique medical condition? How many people are diabetic from drinking too much pop? Or how many people are experiencing a variety of health problems from drinking too much alcohol? How many people engage in dangerous sports that require them to visit the hospital? How many people simply ignore symptoms until their condition is much worse? How many smokers do hospitals have to deal with every year?

My point is this, obesity is certainly a problem, but it's hardly the only voluntary path people take that requires extra work for hospitals. As a person who takes care of himself, I kind of feel like kicking ALL the idiots out of the hospital so health care costs for people like myself are lower. But only for a moment, because I realize that that's not how a healthy (if you'll pardon the pun) society functions.

Edit: And I'll bet my next paycheck against a bent nickle that zendari engages in SOME sort of voluntary behavior that negativly impacts the rest of us. Maybe we should start a thread bitching about that...

But *gasp* you won't even be able to use it in a vending machine!!!!

 

[SarcasticDwarf]

Originally posted by: 3chordcharlie

Originally posted by: Luckyboy1
What's your solution for improving the obesity problem? Can't wait to hear this one...


My multiple years of Emergency Medical service and training have led me to two absolute facts that are completely at opposites of each other...

1) There is absolutley NO scientific evidence based on 5 year, double and triple blind emperical studies, which are the standard in medicine by the way... no evidence that dieting leads to long term weight loss... none!

This means go on a diet today and in 5 years, you will weigh more. I know someone's going to say they beat the curve and that's interesting, but not scientifically usefull information.

The best theory as to why has to do with the starvation reflex. It all goes back to the caveman type thing. Game is plentyfull, so you feast and pack on a few pounds because your body needs a few pounds to ake it through the lean times. Diet sooner than the game runs out or the fields go empty and your body goes...

IIRC the only dieting program with the any proven long-term success is weight-watchers, and the results were extremely modest, like an average of 5-pounds of maintained weight loss.

It takes a lot of willpower to change your weight.

Sure, dieting ALONE has little/no effect. It is diet and exercise that are required.

 

[ChiPCGuy]

Originally posted by: SarcasticDwarf

Originally posted by: 3chordcharlie

Originally posted by: Luckyboy1
What's your solution for improving the obesity problem? Can't wait to hear this one...


My multiple years of Emergency Medical service and training have led me to two absolute facts that are completely at opposites of each other...

1) There is absolutley NO scientific evidence based on 5 year, double and triple blind emperical studies, which are the standard in medicine by the way... no evidence that dieting leads to long term weight loss... none!

This means go on a diet today and in 5 years, you will weigh more. I know someone's going to say they beat the curve and that's interesting, but not scientifically usefull information.

The best theory as to why has to do with the starvation reflex. It all goes back to the caveman type thing. Game is plentyfull, so you feast and pack on a few pounds because your body needs a few pounds to ake it through the lean times. Diet sooner than the game runs out or the fields go empty and your body goes...

IIRC the only dieting program with the any proven long-term success is weight-watchers, and the results were extremely modest, like an average of 5-pounds of maintained weight loss.

It takes a lot of willpower to change your weight.

Sure, dieting ALONE has little/no effect. It is diet and exercise that are required.

It is often more. In my case, it was that plus leveraging one mental illness (OCD) and fostering another (neurotic desire to become thin) against another side of the coin (OCD to eat). Bizarre twist, but true nontheless.

 

[SarcasticDwarf]

Originally posted by: ChiPCGuy

Originally posted by: SarcasticDwarf

Originally posted by: 3chordcharlie

Originally posted by: Luckyboy1
What's your solution for improving the obesity problem? Can't wait to hear this one...


My multiple years of Emergency Medical service and training have led me to two absolute facts that are completely at opposites of each other...

1) There is absolutley NO scientific evidence based on 5 year, double and triple blind emperical studies, which are the standard in medicine by the way... no evidence that dieting leads to long term weight loss... none!

This means go on a diet today and in 5 years, you will weigh more. I know someone's going to say they beat the curve and that's interesting, but not scientifically usefull information.

The best theory as to why has to do with the starvation reflex. It all goes back to the caveman type thing. Game is plentyfull, so you feast and pack on a few pounds because your body needs a few pounds to ake it through the lean times. Diet sooner than the game runs out or the fields go empty and your body goes...

IIRC the only dieting program with the any proven long-term success is weight-watchers, and the results were extremely modest, like an average of 5-pounds of maintained weight loss.

It takes a lot of willpower to change your weight.

Sure, dieting ALONE has little/no effect. It is diet and exercise that are required.

It is often more. In my case, it was that plus leveraging one mental illness (OCD) and fostering another (neurotic desire to become thin) against another side of the coin (OCD to eat). Bizarre twist, but true nontheless.

True enough. I have a similar problem with my OCD. The fact is though, most people don't have OCD or anything similar.

 

[3chordcharlie]

Actually, dieting and exercise are both perfectly effective alone, though better in combination, but it is long-term lifestyle changes that lead to long-term weight-loss.

Every diet on the planet will let you lose 20 pounds in the blink of an eye, but to keep the weight off, you have to change your lifestyle permanently.

 

[1EZduzit]

Originally posted by: alchemize

Originally posted by: 1EZduzit


I think sense is more important then cents. If you want to single out groups then fine, let's start the insanity. Anybody who gets AIDS is on their own damit, anybody who fries their liver is own their own. If you've got bad genes in your family why should I have to pay for your aleriges/ailments/heart transplant/bypasses?? It's not my problem.

I could go on and on and on.

Gotta start somewhere in improving the health of our nation, might as well start with the #1 (controllable) health issue - obesity. Wringing your liberal hands doesn't burn calories for anyone but yourself. Bankruptcy via gluttony, the American Way!

And yes, I would say that heavy drinkers should also pay higher premiums, as should smokers. Probably could stop the line drawing there, since that probably represents some huge portion of cost.

What's your solution for improving the obesity problem? Can't wait to hear this one...

Speaking as a farmer, I think we should triple the cost of food. I'm guessing you don't like that idea since it won't save you money on your insurance.

 

[zendari]

Originally posted by: 3chordcharlie
Actually, dieting and exercise are both perfectly effective alone, though better in combination, but it is long-term lifestyle changes that lead to long-term weight-loss.

Every diet on the planet will let you lose 20 pounds in the blink of an eye, but to keep the weight off, you have to change your lifestyle permanently.

Unfortunately, it does take some personal responsibility *gasp!* and not a copout of "I cant" "I wont" "Supersize Bigmac please" "mental illness".

 

[ChiPCGuy]

True enough. I have a similar problem with my OCD. The fact is though, most people don't have OCD or anything similar.

Agreed, the OCD was a deciding factor in my case to get to here (thin). If you can, try and leverage that OCD energy into positives instead of letting it become destructive. I have noticed that unleashing the full power of my OCD and letting it rule for the purposes of losing weight and keeping it off has had other side effects that need to be controlled as well (watching what I spend on computer parts, controlling that compulsion). It is such a doubledged sword. If leveraged right, it can be a powerfull ally. Leveraged wrong, it is highly destructive as I am sure you know.

That is why my case is unique. Most other morbidly obese people I have met don't have this powerful "tool" to tap into. They feel and therefore are helpless. It is very sad.

 

[zendari]

Originally posted by: ChiPCGuy

Originally posted by: zendari

Originally posted by: 1EZduzit

Originally posted by: alchemize
So make it about cents, and maybe couch potatoes will get some sense. The only thing that comes between a man and his fried cheese curds is his wallet.

I think sense is more important then cents. If you want to single out groups then fine, let's start the insanity. Anybody who gets AIDS is on their own damit, anybody who fries their liver is own their own. If you've got bad genes in your family why should I have to pay for your aleriges/ailments/heart transplant/bypasses?? It's not my problem.

I could go on and on and on.

We single out younger/ticketed/risky/male drivers for car insurance. What's the problem?

Younger, ticketed, risky male drivers are not suffering from a fundamental mental health issue.

Some people have naturally slower reflexes/less coordination than others.