Judge blocks Obama oil moratorium

[her209]

OK. I don't know US regulations and the balance of power between the executive and the judiciary in that country but how can a mere judge overturn a moratorium edicted by the White House?

Checks and balances. They (the Executive branch) can appeal the decision to a higher court.

 

[dennilfloss]

Then again that means this higher court has more power than the Executive branch. Looks like the Judicial carries the bigger stick in the end. Surely there must be powers that the Executive has that cannot be challenged... Looks like the power to issue a moratorium isn't one of those. Could a judge overturn the Cuban embargo, for example?

 

[Gonad the Barbarian]

Wut?

Unless there is some legal basis that a lack of explanation negates the administration's authority to make the decision it did, the ruling doesn't address whether or not the administration has the authority to make that decision in the first place, only that they didn't explain the reasoning behind it to this judge's satisfaction. Basically the judge is saying he just doesn't agree with the decision the administration made because it might be unfair, so overruled.

 

[dennilfloss]

But is it within an administration's powers to make unfair decisions? If every decision can be challenged, how can the country be lead in a specific direction? There is no leadership without the power to act on your words, only gridlock and inertia.

I feel like I'm playing the devil's advocate for authorianism here but the idea is for the executive to govern...

Surely there's a nice middle ground between tyranny and anarchy. I can see a judge reversing a decision on the basis of constitutionality ("the Executive branch does not have the power to do this thing") but on 'fairness'?

 

[her209]

Then again that means this higher court has more power than the Executive branch. Looks like the Judicial carries the bigger stick in the end. Surely there must be powers that the Executive has that cannot be challenged... Looks like the power to issue a moratorium isn't one of those. Could a judge overturn the Cuban embargo, for example?

The courts can't just overturn anything they don't like.

 

[CaptnKirk]

Wut?

I agree with the ruling in that a shotgun moratorium is much like saying that all air flights need to be grounded because a particular aircraft crashed.

Read the history of the DC-10 - a 'Particular Airplane'
They were grounded, several times, because they crashed.

Defective cargo door and floor panel design:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Turkish_Airlines_Flight_981


Defective methods for engine replacements & Defective flap and leading edge slats design caused wing asymetry:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/American_Airlines_Flight_191

Defective redundancy systems and lack of safety valves in hyraulic systems:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_Airlines_Flight_232

Defective fuel tank designs and flaws in the engines burned them to the ground:
http://aviation-safety.net/database/record.php?id=19780301-0

The 'Flight to the End of the World': (Flight crew lack of experience)
http://www.southpolestation.com/trivia/history/te901.html

All these crashes were caused by substandard designs or some form of human stupididy,
and the FAA grounded that particular model until they fixed the problems.

http://www.airsafe.com/events/models/dc10.htm


It was finally discontinued and replaced by the MD-11, which had all the fixes incorporated.
(But was still a piece of flying junk)
http://www.airsafe.com/events/models/md11.htm

Then the next flaw would rear it's ugly head and cause another crash, and another grounding was ordered for the next identified problem.

and on, and on . . . .

There are still over 5,000 oil wells workingin the Gulf, this moratorium was to review the
safety and procedues foe 33 that were either just starting, or were going to start soon.

Lifting the temporary ban is just plain stupid by this judge.
http://www.uglymales.com/wc/wp-content/uploads/2009/08/marty-feldman1.jpg

 

[herm0016]

if you read the stuff it sites other cases and judgments that set a precedent for the judge to do this.

all wells are not built in the same factory like the DC-10. the moratorium is like grounding all flights in the US because a DC-10 went down.

there were about 70 rigs in the gulf when this all started, now there are 30 some. i find it interesting that we refuse to acknowledge the rigs that have left.

 

[RedCOMET]

Well. i guess this means i can go back to work on my oil rig..... when ever they decide to start re-issuing permits that is.. so yay!??

 

[StageLeft]

"the Court is unable to
divine or fathom a relationship between the findings and the
immense scope of the moratorium."

That is a gorgeously worded statement.

 

[Hayabusa Rider]

Read the history of the DC-10 - a 'Particular Airplane'
They were grounded, several times, because they crashed.

Defective cargo door and floor panel design:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Turkish_Airlines_Flight_981


Defective methods for engine replacements & Defective flap and leading edge slats design caused wing asymetry:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/American_Airlines_Flight_191

Defective redundancy systems and lack of safety valves in hyraulic systems:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_Airlines_Flight_232

Defective fuel tank designs and flaws in the engines burned them to the ground:
http://aviation-safety.net/database/record.php?id=19780301-0

The 'Flight to the End of the World': (Flight crew lack of experience)
http://www.southpolestation.com/trivia/history/te901.html

All these crashes were caused by substandard designs or some form of human stupididy,
and the FAA grounded that particular model until they fixed the problems.

http://www.airsafe.com/events/models/dc10.htm


It was finally discontinued and replaced by the MD-11, which had all the fixes incorporated.
(But was still a piece of flying junk)
http://www.airsafe.com/events/models/md11.htm

Then the next flaw would rear it's ugly head and cause another crash, and another grounding was ordered for the next identified problem.

and on, and on . . . .

There are still over 5,000 oil wells workingin the Gulf, this moratorium was to review the
safety and procedues foe 33 that were either just starting, or were going to start soon.

Lifting the temporary ban is just plain stupid by this judge.
http://www.uglymales.com/wc/wp-content/uploads/2009/08/marty-feldman1.jpg

So let's see if I understand your point. 747's should have been grounded because all DC-10s are airplanes and therefore all airplanes are DC-10's even 747's

Sorry, but no go here. The judge ruled the law, and like the last guy in office has to play by the rules. That a President may or may not is irrelevant. 43 should have and by heavens so does 44.

Being in sympathy for a cause is no excuse. I can cite many example over the last decade.

Nope. Obama needs to get inspectors out pronto AND obey the law. We kicked kings out of here a couple of century's and a bit ago.

 

[Sclamoz]

So let's see if I understand your point. 747's should have been grounded because all DC-10s are airplanes and therefore all airplanes are DC-10's even 747's

Sorry, but no go here. The judge ruled the law, and like the last guy in office has to play by the rules. That a President may or may not is irrelevant. 43 should have and by heavens so does 44.

How about it's more like grounding all flights after a few planes were hijacked and crashed into the twin towers?

This incident has clearly shown that we lack the capability to deal with a huge oil spill and there are huge flaws in how we inspect drilling sites and give the OK to drill in the first place. Until that's taken care of I don't see why we should continue to drill.

 

[lothar]

Read the history of the DC-10 - a 'Particular Airplane'
They were grounded, several times, because they crashed.
...
There are still over 5,000 oil wells workingin the Gulf, this moratorium was to review the
safety and procedues foe 33 that were either just starting, or were going to start soon.

Lifting the temporary ban is just plain stupid by this judge.
http://www.uglymales.com/wc/wp-content/uploads/2009/08/marty-feldman1.jpg

There is a difference between banning 33 starting wells and banning a specific model of aircraft.

Why not just ban all starting well rigs owned/being operated/built by Transocean/BP in the gulf instead of putting a blanket hold?

 

[Hayabusa Rider]

How about it's more like grounding all flights after a few planes were hijacked and crashed into the twin towers?

This incident has clearly shown that we lack the capability to deal with a huge oil spill and there are huge flaws in how we inspect drilling sites and give the OK to drill in the first place. Until that's taken care of I don't see why we should continue to drill.

I'll tell you what. If we have terrorists going through the Gulf blowing up wells, then I'll reconsider my opinion. If Congress decides to make a law to that effect then that's the law. Call your representative.

Obama isn't the law.


Tell me, would you like to be imprisoned because you might be a terrorist? I mean if the President feels its in the best interest of the people, you'd go along with it?

Like I told the Capn' the point is the law. If a President feels he's above it for any reason that's too bad. It needs to be corrected and it has.

 

[CaptnKirk]

Go figure:

http://www.politico.com/news/stories/0610/38870.html

 

[Hayabusa Rider]

Go figure:

http://www.politico.com/news/stories/0610/38870.html

Now on what legal grounds he cited do you disagree?

Obama is going to have an appeal and we'll see how that goes. Until then

"When in danger, when in doubt, run in circles scream and shout".

 

[nageov3t]

anyone who disagrees with me is incapable of judging something impartially and on the legal merits of the case.

 

[Hayabusa Rider]

anyone who disagrees with me is incapable of judging something impartially and on the legal merits of the case.

I disagree.

If someone feels that the judge is in error based on his opinion I'd be delighted to discuss it. The caveat is that dismissing Code cited without explanation won't cut it.

 

[RedCOMET]

Why not just ban all starting well rigs owned/being operated/built by Transocean/BP in the gulf instead of putting a blanket hold?

Technically TOI doesn't build their rigs. They contract that out. but that's just me nitpicking.

This incident has clearly shown that we lack the capability to deal with a huge oil spill and there are huge flaws in how we inspect drilling sites and give the OK to drill in the first place. Until that's taken care of I don't see why we should continue to drill.

I think to clarify your some of your statement...There are flaws in the oversight of well construction processes and designs. When it comes to inspecting offshore installations, that is an MMS and Coast Guard issue. The MMS inspects and oversees drilling side of the rigs, while the Coast Guard inspects non Drilling aspects of the rigs.

Also, I think the spill response to date highlights that fact that the current command / leadership structure and communication/asset management / logistics / what have you just doesn't work as is. If there is another spill or other large disatster, i hope they implement a different response plan b/c their plan A just doesn't get the job done.

 

[Danube]

The insurgency strikes back..




WASHINGTON (AP) - Interior Secretary Ken Salazar says he will issue a new order imposing a moratorium on deepwater drilling after a federal judge struck down the existing one.

Salazar said in a statement Tuesday evening that the new order will contain additional information making clear why the six-month drilling pause was necessary in the wake of the Gulf oil spill. The judge in New Orleans who struck down the moratorium earlier in the day complained there wasn't enough justification for it.

Salazar pointed to indications of inadequate safety precautions by industry on deepwater wells. He said he would issue a new order in the coming days showing that a moratorium is needed.


The White House also is appealing the judge's ruling

http://www.breitbart.com/article.php?id=D9GGL7R06&show_article=1

 

[lothar]

Technically TOI doesn't build their rigs. They contract that out. but that's just me nitpicking.

So then whoever they contracted it out to then.

If you know who they contracted it out to, feel free to email Obama, Ken Salazar, and Robert Gibbs about the issue.

 

[Patranus]

The insurgency strikes back..




WASHINGTON (AP) - Interior Secretary Ken Salazar says he will issue a new order imposing a moratorium on deepwater drilling after a federal judge struck down the existing one.

Salazar said in a statement Tuesday evening that the new order will contain additional information making clear why the six-month drilling pause was necessary in the wake of the Gulf oil spill. The judge in New Orleans who struck down the moratorium earlier in the day complained there wasn't enough justification for it.

Salazar pointed to indications of inadequate safety precautions by industry on deepwater wells. He said he would issue a new order in the coming days showing that a moratorium is needed.


The White House also is appealing the judge's ruling

http://www.breitbart.com/article.php?id=D9GGL7R06&show_article=1

LOL - Go for it.

 

[RedCOMET]

So then whoever they contracted it out to then.

If you know who they contracted it out to, feel free to email Obama, Ken Salazar, and Robert Gibbs about the issue.

A good chunk of that info is the TOI website... but I wouldn't be surprised if the USGS or the MMS have this info as well. Hell, just a random google search shoould yield that info too.

 

[Jhhnn]

It's amusing that Righties can take contradictory positions without batting an eye. When the current ongoing disaster occurred, it was all Obama's fault because the dept he inherited from GWB approved the whole operation. Now, of course, attempts to take the time to hopefully change things and get it right from now on are greeted with derision.

And, of course, if the judge's order stands and another similar disaster occurs, that'll be Obama's fault, too.

Can't have it both ways, guys, unless you have the attention span of a gnat... or forgot what you've already said in the rush to hate on Obama...

 

[IGBT]

your obama lies yet again: A federal judge in New Orleans halted President Obama's deepwater drilling moratorium on Tuesday, saying the government never justified the ban and appeared to mislead the public in the wake of the Gulf of Mexico oil spill.

 

[dahunan]

Nope. Obama needs to get inspectors out pronto AND obey the law. We kicked kings out of here a couple of century's and a bit ago.

I am agreeing in this direction but.. I wonder how long it takes to inspect one of those giant things?
Last week a panel of scientists reporting to the federal government sharply increased the estimate of the amount of oil flowing into the Gulf of Mexico from 210,000 gallons (5000 barrels) per day to up to 2.52 million gallons (60,000 barrels) per day.

Regulator Deferred to Oil Industry on Rig Safety

http://www.nytimes.com/2010/05/08/us/08agency.html
Last year, BP, the owner of the well that blew up in the gulf, teamed with other offshore operators to oppose a proposed rule that would have required stricter safety and environmental standards and more frequent inspections. BP said that “extensive, prescriptive” regulations were not needed for offshore drilling, and urged the minerals service to allow operators to define the steps they would take to ensure safety largely on their own.
Walter D. Cruickshank, the deputy director of the management service, disputed the idea that the agency had a history of deference to the industry or a pattern of lax oversight.
“We have inspectors going offshore every day that the weather allows,” Mr. Cruickshank said, citing orders to shut down oil operations 117 times last year. “The enforcement is quite strict.”
He added that agency officials remained committed to adopting the new safety rule, despite industry objections. “I think you can assume that rule is going forward,” he said.
Numerous Congressional and internal investigations have called the oversight agency badly mismanaged and at times corrupt. It has been rocked by regular scandals, including disclosures in 2008 that agency officials took bribes and engaged in drug use and sex with oil industry officials. And its own scientists have said that senior agency officials in recent years revised staff reports to eliminate environmental concerns that might have complicated oil-company drilling applications for offshore sites in waters near Alaska.