Judge Allows Civil Lawsuit Over Claims of Torture

[blackangst1]

Originally posted by: Harvey

Originally posted by: blackangst1

*IF* it was found he was tortured, and *IF* it was found laws were broken, then I hope justice is done

There is no question that the CIA committed heinous acts of torture against a number of prisoners.

There is no question that they did so at the explicit command, and with the explicit approval, of your thankfully EX-Traitor In Chief and his criminal cabal of traitors, murderers, torturers and war criminals.

There is no question that the CIA was required by law to record their interrogation of Padilla and to preserve such recordings.

There is no question that the CIA mysteriously lost or destroyed the tapes of Padilla's interrogation.

There is no question that Jose Padilla is an American citizen who was labeled as an "enemy combatant" by fiat, that is, by the word of the executive branch of government. As such, he was held in solitary confinement in a Navy brig for more than three years and deprived of his Constitutional right to habeas corpus, his right to legal counsel and his right to a speedy trial in open court.

In and of itself, that is sufficient to raise Padilla's suit far above labels like "trivial" and that the evidence should be presented in open court.

*IF* you believe the Bushwhackos commited no acts of torture against ANYONE, or *IF* you believe they broke no U.S. or international laws, there there is no reason or legal barrier to prevent any other American citizen from being designated as an "enemy combattant," imprisoned without cause or proof, deprived of his rights and becoming another victim of TORTURE by our government.

*IF* that is what you believe, justice would be served if YOU are that next victim.

If only, right Harv?

 

[shrumpage]

Does this mean any person who drafts legislation or regulations in any branch of government will now be liable for such laws and regulations?

 

[Harvey]

Originally posted by: blackangst1

Originally posted by: Harvey

*IF* that is what you believe, justice would be served if YOU are that next victim.

If only, right Harv?

No. Actually, I hope you don't believe that. Just some extra things to consider if you do think it's OK for our government to shred our Constitutional rights and commit like TORTURE and other heinous war crimes and crimes against humanity the way the Bushwhackos did.

 

[Hayabusa Rider]

This guy was held with out his Constitutional protections for years. I hope he get's eleventy billion for it.

 

[Harvey]

Originally posted by: Hayabusa Rider

This guy was held with out his Constitutional protections for years. I hope he get's eleventy billion for it.

Money isn't the primary issue. Padilla should face justice for any crimes he actually committed. There are two problems when the government commits crimes against a suspect, the harm they do to the suspect and to the prosecution's ability to prosecute any crimes he may have committed. Whether the accused is innocent or guilty, the ultimate victim is our system justice, itself.

Bringing the truth to light about the full extent of the Bushwhackos' crimes and trying those who committed them is the only way we can purge ourselves of the grusome stain they have placed on the history and integrity of our nation and the only way we can have any hope that it will never happen again.

 

[lupi]

I love the defenders of the constitution mob here; given how selective they are to assume the role.

 

[Vette73]

Originally posted by: shrumpage
Does this mean any person who drafts legislation or regulations in any branch of government will now be liable for such laws and regulations?

If you do so against the law then yes. In fcat as a HR person with the Fed Gov I can be charged and fined for breaking the law. Many HR people over the years have lost their jobs and some fined for breaking the rules/law.


This person was one of the top people saying, sure you can... So yes his actions, if they were against the law, can be charged.

 

[JSt0rm]

Originally posted by: blackangst1

If only, right Harv?

I think looking back when you are a older man you will see that at this point you are on the wrong side of history.

 

[Atreus21]

Originally posted by: Robor

Originally posted by: mstersmith
Man I cant wait for you to get water boarded.

Hey noob, WWYBYWB?

....Why would you...beat your white boy?

 

[Harvey]

Originally posted by: lupi

I love the defenders of the constitution mob here; given how selective they are to assume the role.

"Defenders of the constitution MOB????" :Q

And which "mob" do you support? The ones who calllously shredded the integrity and honor of the United States of America and the values enshrined in our once honored, once valued Constitution that Americans have fought and died to preserve for over two hundred years? :shocked:

Anyone who supports the crimes committed by your thankfully EX-Traitor In Chief and his gang of thugs is a sub-human, ethically challenged moral turd and an embarrassment to the United States of America and to humanity. :thumbsdown: :|

 

[teclis1023]

Originally posted by: blackangst1
Allegedly.

I have no idea whether this individual in question was tortured.

But the inhumane treatment and torture that went on in Abu Ghraib, Guantanamo and countless other US Prisons is well documented, and has been admitted by the former administration.

Even General Mark Kimmit stated

"The first thing I?d say is we?re appalled as well. These are our fellow soldiers. These are the people we work with every day, and they represent us. They wear the same uniform as us, and they let their fellow soldiers down [...] Our soldiers could be taken prisoner as well. And we expect our soldiers to be treated well by the adversary, by the enemy. And if we can't hold ourselves up as an example of how to treat people with dignity and respect [...] We can't ask that other nations to that to our soldiers as well. [...] So what would I tell the people of Iraq? This is wrong. This is reprehensible. But this is not representative of the 150,000 soldiers that are over here [...] I'd say the same thing to the American people... Don't judge your army based on the actions of a few." Source - CBS News

Abu Ghraib abuse photos 'show rape' - Telegraph
Reports detail Abu Ghraib prison death - MSNBC
Prisoners forced to masterbate - NSFW
US Soldier punching restrained prisoner
Detainees stacked on eachother naked - NSF
Detainees leashed - NSFW

 

[heyheybooboo]

Originally posted by: blackangst1

If only, right Harv?

I'll give yah partial credit for at least trying - having Loopy 'with you' is probably more of a hindrance.

Originally posted by: shrumpage
Does this mean any person who drafts legislation or regulations in any branch of government will now be liable for such laws and regulations?

The OLCs don't write legislation - that's up to the special interests and lobbyists

Originally posted by: Hayabusa Rider
This guy was held with out his Constitutional protections for years. I hope he get's eleventy billion for it.

It's a fitting irony - possibly being shackled and 'tortured' with a civil judgment for the rest of their lives after all the gyrations and propaganda thus far to avoid criminal prosecution.

I hope John Yoo sings like a canary to save his own skin.

 

[blackangst1]

Originally posted by: Harvey

Originally posted by: blackangst1

Originally posted by: Harvey

*IF* that is what you believe, justice would be served if YOU are that next victim.

If only, right Harv?

No. Actually, I hope you don't believe that. Just some extra things to consider if you do think it's OK for our government to shred our Constitutional rights and commit like TORTURE and other heinous war crimes and crimes against humanity the way the Bushwhackos did.

There are worse things our government has done than torture a few people. The death penalty for one.

Far worse. But I know youre on a crusade, so....

 

[blackangst1]

Originally posted by: JSt0rm01

Originally posted by: blackangst1

If only, right Harv?

I think looking back when you are a older man you will see that at this point you are on the wrong side of history.

WTF does that have to do with my comment? And BTW I *am* older.

 

[blackangst1]

Originally posted by: teclis1023

Originally posted by: blackangst1
Allegedly.

I have no idea whether this individual in question was tortured.

But the inhumane treatment and torture that went on in Abu Ghraib, Guantanamo and countless other US Prisons is well documented, and has been admitted by the former administration.

Even General Mark Kimmit stated

"The first thing I?d say is we?re appalled as well. These are our fellow soldiers. These are the people we work with every day, and they represent us. They wear the same uniform as us, and they let their fellow soldiers down [...] Our soldiers could be taken prisoner as well. And we expect our soldiers to be treated well by the adversary, by the enemy. And if we can't hold ourselves up as an example of how to treat people with dignity and respect [...] We can't ask that other nations to that to our soldiers as well. [...] So what would I tell the people of Iraq? This is wrong. This is reprehensible. But this is not representative of the 150,000 soldiers that are over here [...] I'd say the same thing to the American people... Don't judge your army based on the actions of a few." Source - CBS News

Abu Ghraib abuse photos 'show rape' - Telegraph
Reports detail Abu Ghraib prison death - MSNBC
Prisoners forced to masterbate - NSFW
US Soldier punching restrained prisoner
Detainees stacked on eachother naked - NSF
Detainees leashed - NSFW

Never said it wasnt Ever.

 

[Harvey]

Originally posted by: blackangst1

Originally posted by: Harvey

Originally posted by: blackangst1

Originally posted by: Harvey

*IF* that is what you believe, justice would be served if YOU are that next victim.

If only, right Harv?

No. Actually, I hope you don't believe that. Just some extra things to consider if you do think it's OK for our government to shred our Constitutional rights and commit like TORTURE and other heinous war crimes and crimes against humanity the way the Bushwhackos did.

There are worse things our government has done than torture a few people. The death penalty for one.

I don't like the death penalty, either, especially since there are documented cases where innocent people have been convicted, some of whom were only proven innocent after they were executed.

That said...

1. The death penalty is legal in some jurisdictions and at least in theory, one can only be sentenced to be executed after a fair trial and conviction. The problem is in the integrity of the system, not the system itself.

2. Beyond the fact that torture is NOT legal in any civilized nation or under the Geneva Conventions and other international treaties, it is intended to cause suffering, regardless of whether it is in response to hostile actions such as the commission of any crime. Those who commit torture go well beyond legality into the realm of inexcusable inhumanity.

That is what the Bushwhackos did. They are truly sub-human ethical and moral turds. As our elected leaders, they were a bloody stain on the integrity and good name of our nation.

Far worse. But I know youre on a crusade, so....

The death penalty, carried out in accordance with the law, is barbaric and outmoded. It actually costs less to imprison those convicted, and someone convicted of a capital offense can always be released if later found not to be guilty.

Wrongful conviction is horrible, and wrongful execution is worse, but they are NOT in any way worse than willfully committing horrific acts of torture on any human being.

And this Jewish atheist would never be on anything labeled as a "crusade" or even a "jihad." I am dedicated to advocating justice and the restoration of the rights guaranteed to every American citizen under the U.S. Constitution. That includes advocating indictment, trial and conviction of those Bushwhackos and any otehers who denied and shredded those rights.

Remember the words carved above the west portico of our Supreme Court building:

EQUAL JUSTICE UNDER LAW

 

[lupi]

Originally posted by: Harvey

Originally posted by: lupi

I love the defenders of the constitution mob here; given how selective they are to assume the role.

"Defenders of the constitution MOB????" :Q

And which "mob" do you support? The ones who calllously shredded the integrity and honor of the United States of America and the values enshrined in our once honored, once valued Constitution that Americans have fought and died to preserve for over two hundred years? :shocked:

Anyone who supports the crimes committed by your thankfully EX-Traitor In Chief and his gang of thugs is a sub-human, ethically challenged moral turd and an embarrassment to the United States of America and to humanity. :thumbsdown: :|

/yawn, only three bolded letters. I expected more from you.

 

[blackangst1]

Originally posted by: Harvey

Originally posted by: blackangst1

Originally posted by: Harvey

Originally posted by: blackangst1

Originally posted by: Harvey

*IF* that is what you believe, justice would be served if YOU are that next victim.

If only, right Harv?

No. Actually, I hope you don't believe that. Just some extra things to consider if you do think it's OK for our government to shred our Constitutional rights and commit like TORTURE and other heinous war crimes and crimes against humanity the way the Bushwhackos did.

There are worse things our government has done than torture a few people. The death penalty for one.

I don't like the death penalty, either, especially since there are documented cases where innocent people have been convicted, some of whom were only proven innocent after they were executed.

That said...

1. The death penalty is legal in some jurisdictions and at least in theory, one can only be sentenced to be executed after a fair trial and conviction. The problem is in the integrity of the system, not the system itself.

2. Beyond the fact that torture is NOT legal in any civilized nation or under the Geneva Conventions and other international treaties, it is intended to cause suffering, regardless of whether it is in response to hostile actions such as the commission of any crime. Those who commit torture go well beyond legality into the realm of inexcusable inhumanity.

That is what the Bushwhackos did. They are truly sub-human ethical and moral turds. As our elected leaders, they were a bloody stain on the integrity and good name of our nation.

Far worse. But I know youre on a crusade, so....

The death penalty, carried out in accordance with the law, is barbaric and outmoded. It actually costs less to imprison those convicted, and someone convicted of a capital offense can always be released if later found not to be guilty.

Wrongful conviction is horrible, and wrongful execution is worse, but they are NOT in any way worse than willfully committing horrific acts of torture on any human being.

And this Jewish atheist would never be on anything labeled as a "crusade" or even a "jihad." I am dedicated to advocating justice and the restoration of the rights guaranteed to every American citizen under the U.S. Constitution. That includes advocating indictment, trial and conviction of those Bushwhackos and any otehers who denied and shredded those rights.

Remember the words carved above the west portico of our Supreme Court building:

EQUAL JUSTICE UNDER LAW

Well, besides those who have been found innocent years later, and besides cost, the death penalty is nothing more than revenge murder. Plain and simple. It is FAR, FAR worse than connecting someone's nads to a car battery and torturing them. Far worse.

And yet, its legal.

Yes, torture is against the law. Yes, waterboarding (since thats your passionate crusade) is torture (now). When waterboarding WAS performed, it was done legally, albeit slight of hand, but still legally, within the confines of the law (as it was THEN). This is what you cant get your mind around. If it was so cut and dried, as you seem to think it is, countries would be lining up at the Hague to prosecute. And they arent. So get over it. And save your kiss my ass and tirture cut and pastes. We've all seen them a hundred times too many.

 

[Harvey]

Originally posted by: blackangst1

Well, besides those who have been found innocent years later, and besides cost, the death penalty is nothing more than revenge murder. Plain and simple. It is FAR, FAR worse than connecting someone's nads to a car battery and torturing them. Far worse.

You're not going to get an argument from me that the death penalty should be abolished, but the arguement that one is worse than the other is STILL no excuse, let alone justification, for either.

And yet, its legal.

Which means that legal remedies exists to get rid of it. They're called the legislative and judicial processes as mandated under our Constitution and the laws of our states.

Yes, torture is against the law. Yes, waterboarding (since thats your passionate crusade) is torture (now).

Waterboarding is not the only crime of torture committed by the Bushwhackos, nor is it my "passion." I want to see those who ordered, authorized, committed and condoned any crimes of torture prosecuted under the law.

When waterboarding WAS performed, it was done legally, albeit slight of hand, but still legally, within the confines of the law (as it was THEN).

NO, it was NOT "done legally! As you acknowledge, it was done using "slight of hand," a fictional charade creating a FALSE veneer of legality, and those ethical turds who participated in creating that fiction are as guilty as the rest of the Bushwhackos who ordered, authorized and committed the actual acts of torture.

This is what you cant get your mind around. If it was so cut and dried, as you seem to think it is, countries would be lining up at the Hague to prosecute. And they arent.

Well, here's something to get YOUR mind around. They ARE!

The Bush Six to Be Indicted

by Scott Horton

Spanish prosecutors will seek criminal charges against Alberto Gonzales and five high-ranking Bush administration officials for sanctioning torture at Guantánamo.

Spanish prosecutors have decided to press forward with a criminal investigation targeting former U.S. Attorney General Alberto Gonzales and five top associates over their role in the torture of five Spanish citizens held at Guantánamo, several reliable sources close to the investigation have told The Daily Beast. Their decision is expected to be announced on Tuesday before the Spanish central criminal court, the Audencia Nacional, in Madrid. But the decision is likely to raise concerns with the human-rights community on other points: They will seek to have the case referred to a different judge.
.
.
(continues)

That's just the beginning. There will be more.

So get over it. And save your kiss my ass and tirture cut and pastes. We've all seen them a hundred times too many.

Hmm... I thought I'd been pretty direct and responsive to your posts in this thread, and nowhere did I attack you. That said, if you think I'm going to turn down an open invitation like that, maybe you really do need the practice so pucker up, suck hard, and...

:lips: my (_!_)

:laugh:

 

[blackangst1]

Originally posted by: Harvey

Originally posted by: blackangst1

Well, besides those who have been found innocent years later, and besides cost, the death penalty is nothing more than revenge murder. Plain and simple. It is FAR, FAR worse than connecting someone's nads to a car battery and torturing them. Far worse.

You're not going to get an argument from me that the death penalty should be abolished, but the arguement that one is worse than the other is STILL no excuse, let alone justification, for either.

And yet, its legal.

Which means that legal remedies exists to get rid of it. They're called the legislative and judicial processes as mandated under our Constitution and the laws of our states.

Yes, torture is against the law. Yes, waterboarding (since thats your passionate crusade) is torture (now).

Waterboarding is not the only crime of torture committed by the Bushwhackos, nor is it my "passion." I want to see those who ordered, authorized, committed and condoned any crimes of torture prosecuted under the law.

When waterboarding WAS performed, it was done legally, albeit slight of hand, but still legally, within the confines of the law (as it was THEN).

NO, it was NOT "done legally! As you acknowledge, it was done using "slight of hand," a fictional charade creating a FALSE veneer of legality, and those ethical turds who participated in creating that fiction are as guilty as the rest of the Bushwhackos who ordered, authorized and committed the actual acts of torture.

This is what you cant get your mind around. If it was so cut and dried, as you seem to think it is, countries would be lining up at the Hague to prosecute. And they arent.

Well, here's something to get YOUR mind around. They ARE!

The Bush Six to Be Indicted

by Scott Horton

Spanish prosecutors will seek criminal charges against Alberto Gonzales and five high-ranking Bush administration officials for sanctioning torture at Guantánamo.

Spanish prosecutors have decided to press forward with a criminal investigation targeting former U.S. Attorney General Alberto Gonzales and five top associates over their role in the torture of five Spanish citizens held at Guantánamo, several reliable sources close to the investigation have told The Daily Beast. Their decision is expected to be announced on Tuesday before the Spanish central criminal court, the Audencia Nacional, in Madrid. But the decision is likely to raise concerns with the human-rights community on other points: They will seek to have the case referred to a different judge.
.
.
(continues)

That's just the beginning. There will be more.

So get over it. And save your kiss my ass and tirture cut and pastes. We've all seen them a hundred times too many.

Hmm... I thought I'd been pretty direct and responsive to your posts in this thread, and nowhere did I attack you. That said, if you think I'm going to turn down an open invitation like that, maybe you really do need the practice so pucker up, suck hard, and...

:lips: my (_!_)

:laugh:

yyeaaahhh we'll see. "Going to" is not "is".

 

[Hayabusa Rider]

Originally posted by: Harvey

Originally posted by: Hayabusa Rider

This guy was held with out his Constitutional protections for years. I hope he get's eleventy billion for it.

Money isn't the primary issue. Padilla should face justice for any crimes he actually committed. There are two problems when the government commits crimes against a suspect, the harm they do to the suspect and to the prosecution's ability to prosecute any crimes he may have committed. Whether the accused is innocent or guilty, the ultimate victim is our system justice, itself.

Bringing the truth to light about the full extent of the Bushwhackos' crimes and trying those who committed them is the only way we can purge ourselves of the grusome stain they have placed on the history and integrity of our nation and the only way we can have any hope that it will never happen again.

What he should have faced were charges and a trial. Getting around to it for several years is BS. If he did the crime, yeah do the time.

Regardless of what he did, he was imprisoned with out due process. This isn't the USSR, or it isn't supposed.

 

[Harvey]

Originally posted by: Harvey

Originally posted by: blackangst1

This is what you cant get your mind around. If it was so cut and dried, as you seem to think it is, countries would be lining up at the Hague to prosecute. And they arent.

Well, here's something to get YOUR mind around. They ARE!

The Bush Six to Be Indicted

by Scott Horton

Spanish prosecutors will seek criminal charges against Alberto Gonzales and five high-ranking Bush administration officials for sanctioning torture at Guantánamo.

Spanish prosecutors have decided to press forward with a criminal investigation targeting former U.S. Attorney General Alberto Gonzales and five top associates over their role in the torture of five Spanish citizens held at Guantánamo, several reliable sources close to the investigation have told The Daily Beast. Their decision is expected to be announced on Tuesday before the Spanish central criminal court, the Audencia Nacional, in Madrid. But the decision is likely to raise concerns with the human-rights community on other points: They will seek to have the case referred to a different judge.
.
.
(continues)

That's just the beginning. There will be more.

yyeaaahhh we'll see. "Going to" is not "is".

Neither is it "is NOT." Patience, sonny boy. Your Bushwhacko traitors are guilty as sin. If there's any justice, they will be prosecuted.

The reason for time is to keep everything from happening at once. We'll see what is and is not as it develops.

Originally posted by: Hayabusa Rider

What he should have faced were charges and a trial. Getting around to it for several years is BS. If he did the crime, yeah do the time.

Regardless of what he did, he was imprisoned with out due process.

And those who denied them due process should be prosecuted for their crimes.