Journey to 3.5mm audio cable upgrade for MBP & A2 speakers- $1200 silver cable INSIDE

[OCGuy]

Awesome thread. Posting on other forums.

 

[Tom]

cables don't transmit sound.

 

[cheez]

UPDATE:

After good couple thousand hours of use on my $1200 silver cable, here are the things I have noticed:

- Harshness / Edginess reduced.
- Better / smoother transitions in the music. Very solid and controlled.
- Transparent.
- Detail sounded about the same when I first got the cable and now. The biggest key is the detail pop. Any background instruments or any detail that were hardly audible with generic cable I can hear them right to my face. Each element of sound is distinctive, clearly pronounced.
- Wider soundstage and more air.


From what I've read the silver cables take much longer time to fully settle / break-in...

I am loving it so much I have zero regret... seriously speaking.

As you guys know I now also have $200 Sydney cable (high quality solid high purity purple copper PSC+). That cable runs from sound card to the subwoofer. I wanted to buy another silver cable for that but then I will go bankrupt.

epic thread is epic.

On a serious note..... I'm sorry for you OP. Yes, let this thread die so some poor SOB won't spend 1,200 on a useless cable.

No, that's not what I meant... I wanted to let this thread die because I said everything I wanted to say about the improvements in audio with the cable upgrade as discussed here. I don't want to keep repeating what I said over and over..

Awesome thread. Posting on other forums.

Cheez you're an awesome human being. Don't let anyone stop you.

Awesome thread. Posting on other forums.

Hey.. Thanks for the kind words guys. I'm shy now.

Loving my $1200 solid PSS silver cable.. It has made my Audioengine A2 speakers into studio grade speakers. After all, these are monitors.

When paired with Asus Xonar DX7.1 card in my HTPC, the dynamics and air has increased. But I still miss the Macbook Pro's onboard audio. My $1200 cable seems to like it a lot.

I just ordered me a mid-end power conditioner for this setup. This is for my Audioengine A2 speakers and my HTPC. I did the special Saturday-delivery so I will receive it tomorrow!! woohoo! Will let you know and post some pics once I get em setup.


Later down the road I would like to get me the high-end power cords (price range $1000~ $1500 per cord, shortest length) for my A2 speakers & PC. If this ever happens I will surely post the update here.

But then again..... since it's no longer connected to my Macbook it's no longer relevant to the Apple discussion thread here. So I am not sure if I should continue with posting... Do you want me to keep posting or don't post?


:biggrin:

 

[trungma]

If you open up those Audioengine A2 speakers and look at the wiring that are in there, you will find cheap, unshielded plastic coated, oxygen ridden copper cables. This is the weakest link. Your $1200 cable is like a 10 lane highway merging into single lane traffic. Any audio differences between decent cables and the $1200 cable is neglible at best.

 

[Phanuel]

Any audio differences between decent cables and the $1200 cable is neglible at best.

They're not only negligible, they don't even exist. That's what's so funny about this whole thing. And the fact that he now wants to spend $1,000s on power cables to things such as "speakers" is even more face-palming.

He should honestly be more concerned with getting a quality amp and regular speakers without built in amps than the cable that connects from the inexpensive wiring in his house to the AC/DC transformer in whatever he's using to power his listening.

But we can't question 'Golden Ears' because we just don't understand any of what makes them that much better than the rest of us at detecting the minor nuances that ruin the enjoyment of listening to music for them.

 

[cheez]

If you open up those Audioengine A2 speakers and look at the wiring that are in there, you will find cheap, unshielded plastic coated, oxygen ridden copper cables. This is the weakest link. Your $1200 cable is like a 10 lane highway merging into single lane traffic. Any audio differences between decent cables and the $1200 cable is neglible at best.

The internal treatment in the A2 speaker may not be the best, but at least better than other similarly priced speakers.

The thing you are forgetting is that the internal components in the speakers isn't end be all for best sound out of the system. The critical part is in the cable, the interconnection between the output source and the speakers. Using cheap quality cables can even be bigger bottleneck as they generate more electrical noise and other unwanted RF interference. It's like a single lane traffic expends to 10 lane traffic on the speakers. What I am trying to teach you is that the cable plays important role, the speakers and amp / output source aren't the only factor.

Sure, I am not getting all out of my silver cable with my A2 speakers and Xonar sound card or MBP built-in audio, but am getting better sound than what typical setup most users use, such as the cheap generic cables or monoprice cables. The proof is in the hearing, as evidenced in my listening experience on this thread.

I am not saying it will sound equally as good as the higher end systems with this cable. But my target is to get the best sound possible out of my given components, A2 speakers and Xonar sound card that is. If I use cheap cable I will get no better results than what average Joe users (you) get. That's boring.

Like I said, I am clearly getting better sound out of this setup using either the silver cable or the Sydney, high purity copper cable. Like I said, with this hardware combination the biggest jump in performance was when I went from generic 3.5mm mini cable to the Audioquest Sydney 3.5mm mini cable. The jump was so huge I fell out of my chair..... The jump is small from Sydney to the Angel in this setup as it is reaching the limit of my hardware. That's fine. Even 10% gain in music listening quality matters to me. You maybe expecting 200% jump, no it doesn't work that way.

They're not only negligible, they don't even exist.

Have you auditioned the system with these cables for critical listening? Most likely you haven't. Most people don't have the guts to dish out thousands of dollars on just a single short length cable even to try out. You are simply discrediting my claim because you can't afford one and think it makes no difference. Also, the hearing capability is very important. Not everyone has same hearing. Not to mention, untrained ears.

That's what's so funny about this whole thing. And the fact that he now wants to spend $1,000s on power cables to things such as "speakers" is even more face-palming.

The ones I'm looking at cost anywhere from $1200 to $1500 on short length pure solid silver PSS FEP power cable. I would love to get me a few of those, one for the speaker power supply and one for the HTPC. But I can't spend that much now as I will go bankrupt. Some time down the road I will get me a couple of these but not now. I will be getting some high-performance power conditioner for my audio system though. The sound degraded immediately as soon as I pulled out one of the power strips and connected the equipments directly to the wall outlet. Line conditioner is in order.


I will later be getting the better speakers though for my HTPC setup. The A2 speakers will go back to the other room and pair it with the Macbook.

He should honestly be more concerned with getting a quality amp and regular speakers without built in amps than the cable that connects from the inexpensive wiring in his house to the AC/DC transformer in whatever he's using to power his listening.

I don't know about passive speakers being better. They are not. Depends on the setup, what you are pairing with. Active bi-amp speakers can be very good as some use better quality internals and the amp. Some even have dedicated DAC built-in to it. Active speakers is what I prefer. To get best out of passive speakers you have to spend $$$$$ on the receiver / amp. Those cheap $200 ones won't cut it like most of you spend money on.

But we can't question 'Golden Ears' because we just don't understand any of what makes them that much better than the rest of us at detecting the minor nuances that ruin the enjoyment of listening to music for them.

It is true, a lot of people out there do have hearing problems. Even though they swear they hear fine but they have some hearing problems to some degree. Every ears are made differently. How your brain senses signal is another thing.

 

[cheez]

Angel cable and A2 speakers

Just look at it.... damn. This is work of art. Click on it below to view full size to check out the detail of the cable. It's beautiful.

SVS SB12-NSD sub

Audioquest Angel ($1200) on the left. Audioquest Sydney ($200) on the right.

Sydney cable and sub

Sydney cable doesn't look as good as the Angel cable though.

Pop quiz. Which one is angel cable and which one is the Sydney? Can you tell? But we know the combined cost on those two cables is $1400.

Nevertheless, those cables look sexy as hell.

 

[Rubycon]

Nevertheless, those cables look sexy as hell.

And they sound the same as the Hoyas I have plugged into the back of our Dynacord consoles. :biggrin:

 

[Oyeve]

It doesnt take guts to spend thousands on a cable. Only stupidity and assholeness.

 

[trungma]

I am not saying it will sound equally as good as the higher end systems with this cable. But my target is to get the best sound possible out of my given components, A2 speakers and Xonar sound card that is. If I use cheap cable I will get no better results than what average Joe users (you) get. That's boring.

Not sure why you assume I don't have high end audio equipment. I would just rather use the $1200 budget for new speakers than cables. Playing the EE card, I fully understand the limitations that cables can pose on data transmission. But seeing how you measure sound quailty with terms like "harsness" and "edginess" instead of sound metrics like "frequency response" and "attenuation", I've decided not to argue anymore.

I forgot to add that audio equipment is very subjective and if you feel it sounds better then thumbs up to you! However, telling us that the cable is "transparent" doesn't really mean anything.

Anyways, I am I the only one that feels that they got trolled?

 

[ultimatebob]

Heh... we used to do $500 audio cable "reviews" all the time in the ATOT forum just to get people riled up.

None of them were as good as this one, though. Cheez deserves Elite member nomination for this thread

 

[cheez]

It doesnt take guts to spend thousands on a cable. Only stupidity and assholeness.

Why you keep calling me asshole? This is uncalled for. Will you please stop with the insults??D:

Not sure why you assume I don't have high end audio equipment. I would just rather use the $1200 budget for new speakers than cables. Playing the EE card, I fully understand the limitations that cables can pose on data transmission. But seeing how you measure sound quailty with terms like "harsness" and "edginess" instead of sound metrics like "frequency response" and "attenuation", I've decided not to argue anymore.

It did remove harshness, so I say it. What is wrong with using this term?? It's a description of how it sounds. When you say frequency response you mean you want measurements? I don't have measurements. I'm not a scientist. I go by what I hear.

However, telling us that the cable is "transparent" doesn't really mean anything.

It IS transparent, with the cable upgrade to Sydney and Angel. Very noticeable improvement. The biggest change was the location of the musical instruments played. Detail pop is another.

Anyways, I am I the only one that feels that they got trolled?

It's not trolling. This thread is to tell you that, based on hands-on user experience the cable upgrade make difference in sound. If you do nearfield listening with this speakers you can tell better what's going on. Bunny ears anyone?

Heh... we used to do $500 audio cable "reviews" all the time in the ATOT forum just to get people riled up.

None of them were as good as this one, though. Cheez deserves Elite member nomination for this thread

Hey thanks for the kind words ultimatebob! I really appreciate it.
I love my cables so much you guys have no idea......



Hey guys, girls, my power conditioner did not arrive. It's from Furman but Amazon went out of stock when I ordered it. I decided to cancel it and not get. Instead, I did some wire management for my audio system. It's pretty "ghetto" but still, effective. I was happy with the results in sound. I will post up pics tonight! Enjoy.. :biggrin:

 

[lord_emperor]

This is an amazing six pages of trolling that harkens back to Monster Cables vs. coat hangers.

 

[cheez]

Got bored so I wanted to further improve the sound quality (and video quality) by relocating the power cords, interconnects, and speaker wire...

Pics.

Power supply and cord for the A2 speakers

Tape it up good.... The goal is to keep the cables apart at least 3- 4 inches to help prevent from getting interference between the cables.

Speaker wire for the A2 speakers - Placed so that it won't get near the TV's power cord.

DVI-D cable for the plasma screen - Placed far away from the TV's power cable and lifted above the floor for superb video transmission.

There are times you can't keep cables far apart. You don't want it run it together in parallels, but you can "cross" it at 90 degree angle as shown below. That's a DVI-D cable crossing the plasma's power cable. Damn I'm good!

Cheez is so passionate.

 

[mugs]

This is an amazing six pages of trolling that harkens back to Monster Cables vs. coat hangers.

What are "implements cheez's mom could have used for a DIY abortion," Alex?

 

[cheez]

Here are some power cords I would love to get my hands on:

DFPC Signature from LessLoss - $1150 - http://www.lessloss.com/dfpc-signature-p-199.html

NRG Wel Signature from AudioQuest - $4050 (3ft) - http://www.audioquest.com/power-cables/wel-signature Price goes up well over $10k for 10ft. Forget that.... I'll have to apply for a loan to get one of those. This one will be considered my dream power cord.

Some day I will pickup one of those DFPC Signature power cords... will need at least three, two for the future speakers (high-end / studio grade) left + right, one for the source (PC or laptop) or dedicated external DAC. 3 cords = $3600

Right now I'm happy and pretty satisfied with my Audioengine A2 speakers + SVS SB12-NSD subwoofer + $1200 Angel and $200 Sydney cable.... Because of my cable, the A2 speakers sound really good. Best result for near field listening. The only drawback is the insufficient output. It has its limits. If I go buy me a $1200 power cord man I'll go bankrupt.... can't get that now as I gotta buy get me a water softner for my house and other stuff I gotta take care of...

Hopefully by Christmas the Santa's will give me a pair of one of the following pairs:

- Adam A7x - $1400+
- Focal CMS50 - $1400+
- AVI Adm9T - $2250
- Dynaudio BM5A - ~$1000

They also take balanced inputs (XLR) and you are looking at well over a grand for the cable. So my PC won't be able to support. That means I gotta get the external DAC too, that's another well over a grand... But the AVI Adm9T doesn't require a DAC as it already has the state-of-the art electronics + DAC already built in to it and accepts RCA connections and Fiber Optic. Those speakers look so sexy...:wub:


Forget the nice cables... get the speakers first with generic-grade cables. I can always get the expensive cables later down the road.

When this happens my Angel cable and A2 speakers will go back to my MBP setup, as it generates incredibly awesome sound. MBP built-in audio has its own unique sonic signature... something you can't get from anywhere else. Damn I should have gotten the Angel cable with RCA ends instead... then I can pair it with the Adm9T speakers! My Angel cable is 3.5mm mini-to-mini.

 

[Cerb]

Worried about audio quality and interference, with an (a) open case (radiated RFI city!) and (b) stock coolers? This is the thread that keeps on giving!

Want to hear more detail? Quiet the PC down.

Want to reduce interference? Keep your wireless devices away, make sure everything has a good earth ground, and have your case neatly buttoned up (the side panel is part of the whole thing's shield!). Keeping cables far apart from each other will do nothing. Just make sure they don't have loops, and if you're extra paranoid, keep audio IC cables inches away from power cables (which usually happens 'naturally', without any work).

MBP built-in audio has its own unique sonic signature... something you can't get from anywhere else.

Many integrated audio implementations on common motherboards have such properties. Most of just call it noise, interference, or poor quality implementation, not, "it's own unique sonic signature." Apple RDF FTW

 

[Klavshc]

I just wanted to add to the thread that this thread makes me happy in the pants.

This is like stumbling across some cthonic temple from some long extinct tribe. You have heard rumors about the riches there, but still you're amazed by the quality and the overabundance of wealth being displayed.

This is the best analogy I can come up with at 5 am. This thread makes me so happy.

Dear OP please continue on your quest to make your "sound system" sing, your exuberance is well worth the read.

With regards.

Me

 

[cheez]

Worried about audio quality and interference, with an (a) open case (radiated RFI city!) and (b) stock coolers? This is the thread that keeps on giving!

I keep it closed. It happened to be open at the time I was taking pics! no need to get nit picky like a girl.

And I am actually planning for water cooling to minimize the number of fans... I used to be a hardcore phase-change cooling guru many many years ago. Keeps on giving what? You got it all wrong what are you talking about?

Want to hear more detail? Quiet the PC down.

Read above. Plus the door on the wooden cabinet is closed. I had it opened so obviously I can take pics of the wiring.

Want to reduce interference? Keep your wireless devices away

I don't have them.
The reason being, the use of wireless is completely ghey. I am a hardcore anti-wireless for many reasons...... I only use wired connection.

make sure everything has a good earth ground, and have your case neatly buttoned up (the side panel is part of the whole thing's shield!)

I said I keep my side panel closed. Read above. No need to keep repeating same words.

Keeping cables far apart from each other will do nothing.

Wrong. Depending on the cable type and construction / quality the interference becomes a matter when they are close together or tied down together running in parallels. It gets worse with power cables.

Just make sure they don't have loops, and if you're extra paranoid, keep audio IC cables inches away from power cables (which usually happens 'naturally', without any work).

Safe distance is 4 inches apart.

Many integrated audio implementations on common motherboards have such properties. Most of just call it noise, interference, or poor quality implementation, not, "it's own unique sonic signature." Apple RDF FTW

It's the sound chipset that makes the difference. It has better sound than your "external" ghetto cheapo DAC.

 

[cheez]

Don't forget.... MBP built-in audio is superior to many external ghetto DAC's out there that range $100~ 400. This is especially true when you use cheap generic grade cables from computer to DAC to speakers.. higher number of connections also means lossy signals = lose sound quality and become soft / absorbent. Do you remember I taught you this in the first few pages of this thread? Cerb?

 

[Cerb]

Wrong. Depending on the cable type and construction / quality the interference becomes a matter when they are close together or tied down together running in parallels. It gets worse with power cables.

For low-power short-run signal ICs, it's only going to make a difference if they are in the same cable, with no shielding, and/or insufficient insulation, between them. it's worth worrying about for attempting long runs of single-ended cable, but not to go across the room. Even for long distances, the capacitance within each cable will be orders of magnitude worse for the signal than anything outside of it, unless you put a GSM cell phone right nearby, or if it is insufficiently shielded; and there's basically no way to make a long run not also be a decent antenna.

It's the sound chipset that makes the difference. It has better sound than your "external" ghetto cheapo DAC.

I know that is not the case. My DAC doesn't pick up noise from inside the computer, which is the whole reason I have one external. I know the last 3 generations of MPB integrated pick up internal noise, at a level that is quite audible.

Do you remember I taught you this in the first few pages of this thread?

No. You merely provided good entertainment value .

 

[cheez]

I have been researching on high-end speakers. Check this out...

AVI Adm40 loudspeakers - $6000+

The Angle cable will go soooooooooooooooooooo well with this. Perfect match. Damn I should've gotten the 3.5mm mini-to-RCA not the mini end...

Anybody would like to loan me money for this speakers? I want I want.

Anyways, for now, I love my A2 speakers due to studio-grade sound quality.

 

[cheez]

^ Well, getting one of those pairs is a pipe dream for now as I don't have much cash left... the reason being, I spent too much on cables and other stuff (non-PC-related).

Getting myself a pair of Focal CMS50 studio monitors is very within reach. A pair runs $1400 just the speakers. They sell by a piece so they don't come in a pair. Hmmm.... I could get me one of those and use it as a center speaker? What do you guys think? It'll run $700 + the cable. It takes an RCA connection also. Since I ain't got money will have to get an entry level Audioquest RCA cable which will run around $32. For $732 I can have a center speaker added to my awesome A2 speakers w/ Subwoofer (SVS SB12-NSD) system. The Focal will take responsibility on the mid range. I want real strong solid 3-dimensional mid range which Focal is known for, even besting the Adam A7 series. The Dynaudio BM5A will get butt whipped easy.


Another option is, since I don't have much money left, get a Benchmark DAC-1 USB DAC ($1200) instead. Hook it up to A2 speakers via RCA. Unfortunately I'll have to settle for a $32 entry-level Audioquest RCA cable for this, since I ain't got money. SO that's $1232.

It's either an external DAC (Benchmark DAC-1 for $1200) or a pair of Focal CMS50 speakers by Christmas of this year, not both, which will run $2600. Hopefully Santa will loan me some money so I can complete the system.


AVI Adm9T, which is a higher up speaker than the Focal (close competitor), doesn't require a DAC because it takes RCA inputs (L + R) and Digital Spdif. But I don't $2250.

Once I complete a speaker system with either Focal CMS or Adm9T, the A2 speakers will go back to my Macbook Pro. The $1200 silver cable will follow.

 

[cheez]

The CMS50 series maybe more than powerful for me, almost an overkill.

The CMS40 seems really good. The Focal's are made in France, not like those ghey products made in China.

Check out the pic! The woofer driver is 4 inches, about 1 1/4 inch larger than my A2 woofer driver. They are not much bigger than my A2 speakers but have about 3 1/2 times more output, and weighs nearly 4 times the weight! They have dedicated class AB amplifiers on each speaker and has some exotic materials such as polyglass and magnesium. The specs on this is pretty scary.


Here!

$850 a pair. Emmmm~~~ tasty. I can afford this.


Review by MusicTech Magazine:

CMS 40
Manufacturer Focal
Price £282 each
Contact SCV London 020 8418 1470
Web www.focalprofessional.com


To be honest, we’d expect a bit more flair from the country that produced such design classics as the Citroën DS, the guillotine and the croissant – these Focal CMS 40s look so unassuming that at first we thought we were dealing with a pair of computer speakers. We were soon to discover just how wrong we were…

The CMS 40 is particularly suited for small rooms and the design allows for positioning anywhere between 40cm and three metres from the listener, even in close proximity to reverberating surfaces. They are recommended for post-production and home studio use as well as in full-size professional studios, in case engineers need to ‘quickly check how the mix translates onto smaller speakers’.

Drive time

In essence, the CMS 40 is an active two-way nearfield monitor with two 25-watt Class AB amplifier stages powering a 10cm polyglass cone woofer and an aluminium/magnesium inverted dome tweeter. The amps and drivers are installed in a reinforced and damped cast aluminium (split) ported cabinet that has a powder-coated black finish and weighs in at 5.5kg. The level control and power switch are both located on the front panel – a feature we applaud. Connection points and control switches are located to the rear and the CMS 40 accepts balanced and unbalanced input signals via XLR and RCA sockets. The LF and HF shelving switches apply +2dB correction from 450Hz and 4.5kHz respectively.

The Input Level switch has three settings: +4dB, 0 and -10dB. The ‘0’ setting is an intermediate position that falls somewhere between the pro and semi-pro operating levels and the volume control on the front panel provides fine-tuning (complete with indents so it’s easy to match levels on two or more CMS 40s). An LED next to the volume control flashes red to indicate clipping. To align the tweeters with the listener’s ears the CMS 40 can be positioned vertically or horizontally (according to the manual you can even use them upside down). The base of the enclosure has four rubber ‘feet’ and each unit is supplied with a rubber table stand for stability and minimal vibration transfer. Two adjustable spikes are also included to tilt the speakers for ‘optimum audio image alignment’.

Model image

Each CMS 40 is supplied with a small hook tool to remove the protective metal grilles covering the woofer and tweeter. The speakers can be used with the grilles in situ, but Focal recommends removing them for optimal soundstage precision – which we take to mean imaging. A tweeter phase plug is also included that should be installed vertically over the grille-less tweeter.

The CMS 40s might be small, but they sound huge. Even set flat, the bass feels remarkably even and deep for the size of cabinet and we hardly noticed any boominess or hype. We did detect a small amount of port turbulence with very low-frequency signals at high volume, but we’ve heard far worse and the effect was less noticeable with the CMS 40s positioned upright rather than sideways. In conjunction with the Focal CMS SUB it wouldn’t be an issue at all.

Sharp focus

The most remarkable feature has to be the imaging, because the CMS 40s are razor-sharp – all of the mix elements are located with absolute precision within the stereo picture. Things were impressive enough with the grilles in place, but removing them took the CMS 40s into another league altogether. Bass lines are tight and solid. In particular, double bass sounded tremendously natural. Transient response is very fast, so percussive elements really breathe and midrange elements occupy their places in the mix without becoming dominant or overpowering. Without being in any way bright, hyped or forceful, the sheer degree of detail and clarity that these speakers achieve is quite amazing.

Here's another review: http://en.audiofanzine.com/active-monitor/focal/cms-40/editorial/reviews/focal-point.html

 

[MagickMan]

You know, if you hadn't wasted all that money on cables, you could have had some nice speakers.

My 2ch system is: FLACs from PC > McIntosh C50 pre/pro > McIntosh MC402 amp > Wilson WATT/Puppy 7s, and they're all connected with Blue Jeans cables. Why? Because as long as the cables aren't defective, they make no difference whatsoever. If you're hearing a difference between cables, it's because you want to.