jonpeddie: nvidia keeps losing market share

[wahdangun]

I'm not suprised by this. Its because fermi 7 moth late to the market and there are almost a year without sub $150 product, and after apple completely use amd and intel graphic in all their line up, so I understand why nvdia would go to another market like mobile sector and tablet

 

[AnandThenMan]

Because noone wants to support PC gaming.

Developers are leaving us PC users for the 'green' fields of the console market.
If there were more PC games with advanced graphics that would definitely boost gpu sales. I'm sick of looking at brown and bloom Unreal Engine games that haven't changed much since the 360's introduction.

I agree 100%. PC gaming is becoming a wasteland, a select few quality titles the rest hasty console ports. Ugh.

Regarding discreet graphics share, I can honestly see a future where the traditional PC is relegated to the very high end and specialty tasks. Most people will be using some kind of portable device, perhaps seamlessly interconnected to various displays and peripherals.

 

[Blitzvogel]

I agree 100%. PC gaming is becoming a wasteland, a select few quality titles the rest hasty console ports. Ugh.

Regarding discreet graphics share, I can honestly see a future where the traditional PC is relegated to the very high end and specialty tasks. Most people will be using some kind of portable device, perhaps seamlessly interconnected to various displays and peripherals.

The mobile graphics field is pretty exciting though, as it has grown by leaps and bounds, and in a way it's like the days of PC graphics before all the buy ups and mergers, since there are a number of players still competing for share.

Since it'll probably be not until 2014 that we see the successors of the PS3 and 360, it's possible that the PC could gain back some of it's former high end glory. The platform is more friendly towards innovation, and I think people are getting kind of sick of the current state of gaming consoles. BF3 might end up really pushing that fact on console gamers (especially with all the hub-bub about not having 64 players per server). Crysis sort of did that too, but we know how that ended up. Crytek jumped to consoles, created a more console centric game losing much of the PC audience and not getting the attention of the console audience like they did with the first game. Oh the irony

 

[wahdangun]

The mobile graphics field is pretty exciting though, as it has grown by leaps and bounds, and in a way it's like the days of PC graphics before all the buy ups and mergers, since there are a number of players still competing for share.

Since it'll probably be not until 2014 that we see the successors of the PS3 and 360, it's possible that the PC could gain back some of it's former high end glory. The platform is more friendly towards innovation, and I think people are getting kind of sick of the current state of gaming consoles. BF3 might end up really pushing that fact on console gamers (especially with all the hub-bub about not having 64 players per server). Crysis sort of did that too, but we know how that ended up. Crytek jumped to consoles, created a more console centric game losing much of the PC audience and not getting the attention of the console audience like they did with the first game. Oh the irony

totally agree with you, I even planning to buy second hd 6950 just to play it and enjoying the graphic like the first crysis. But man crytek really screwing use, man I'm really burned by crytek

 

[AtenRa]

NVIDIA will continue to lose total market share because they don’t have APUs and IGPs anymore.

What we really need to see is how the Discrete Graphics Card market share is forming up (Desktop and Mobile) in Q1 2011.

Discrete Graphics Card (desktop and mobile) market share will not go down in the coming years. The total Graphics card market share (Discrete + APUs) will rise because of the APUs but discrete market share will stay almost the same or rise a little bit.

http://www.jonpeddie.com/publications/integrated-graphics-processor-report/

 

[PingviN]

I honestly think Nvidia has allready put its eggs in another basket. The Tegra basket that is. I predict in 7 years Nvidia will make more money in another sector than they do with descreet gpu's.

If Tegra doesn't shape up, I think they've wasted a lot of money. Tegra 2 is just sad. Months and months late and now overtaken by the competition before the bulk of products has been released. Tegra 2 is popular because Google chose it as it's development platform for Android 3.0, but that will just be for the first wave of Honeycomb-based products. You'll probably see less Tegra 2 and more Adreno/PowerVR-equipped models once Asus and the rest clears out their stock. In a market where Apple is the target, you don't use hardware not up for the task.

 

[Dadofamunky]

nVidia has three things against them at this point:
nVidia has tremendous products in the midrange and high end brackets. Hopefully they can square off these few problems and come out doing alright.

That's why I went with NVidia this time. I wanted the best bang for my buck and NVidia gave it to me this time.

 

[Cerb]

The multi-million dollar question is if AMD can avoid anymore mistakes like R600(hot, loud, relatively slow compared to Nvidia's high-end, and very late) and keep all their hard earned market share and hopefully gain a good deal more. I don't doubt that if they come out with a bad series that Nvidia will gain most of it back.

Nah. nVidia won't have an AMD or Intel IGP to use. The only workable solution would have been for VIA to buy nVidia (the other way around would forfeit the x86 license, I believe), and I'm not sure that would been a plus, v. nVidia focusing on high-profit niches and mobile.

Unfortunately, for mobile nV, PowerVR (I know, Imagination, but they'll always be PowerVR to me ) has outdone themselves, lately. nVidia would have to do something drastic, like open up HW specs, to make them really compelling, unless you just want an itty bitty ARM CUDA/OpenCL processor.

On the PC side, as well, I personally think their division of consumer/pro HW and SW is a short-term customer screw-over, and a long-term bad decision (poor OpenGL on the desktop, and crippling DP FP on the desktop, that I know of).

mabe Qualcom or Samsung?:thumbsup:

I believe powerhouse companies like these guys, Nvidia and mabe Sony could put the smack down on Intel and AMD in 7 years.

Sony having them? Oh, please, no! Qualcom could probably make excellent use of them, though.

 

[timma]

AMD Fusion APU/6000 serials sells good,and NVIDIA @ USD $100 above no good Cost/Price~

 

[Genx87]

If Tegra doesn't shape up, I think they've wasted a lot of money. Tegra 2 is just sad. Months and months late and now overtaken by the competition before the bulk of products has been released. Tegra 2 is popular because Google chose it as it's development platform for Android 3.0, but that will just be for the first wave of Honeycomb-based products. You'll probably see less Tegra 2 and more Adreno/PowerVR-equipped models once Asus and the rest clears out their stock. In a market where Apple is the target, you don't use hardware not up for the task.

Next gen of Tegra is due out in August. Quadcore with an improved GPU.

I am interested in seeing if Nvidia will be able to brute force their way into the market with an aggressive product cycle like they did in desktop graphics nearly 15 years ago.

 

[notty22]

If Tegra doesn't shape up, I think they've wasted a lot of money. Tegra 2 is just sad. Months and months late and now overtaken by the competition before the bulk of products has been released. Tegra 2 is popular because Google chose it as it's development platform for Android 3.0, but that will just be for the first wave of Honeycomb-based products. You'll probably see less Tegra 2 and more Adreno/PowerVR-equipped models once Asus and the rest clears out their stock. In a market where Apple is the target, you don't use hardware not up for the task.

This comment sounds looks like plagiarism from Charlie and makes zero sense. Tegra II is 'sad', LOL, and its only 'popular' because Google (that little company) made it the platform standard. To me thats like Miss America isn't really beautiful and talented, she was just chosen the winner by the judges !

you don't use hardware not up for the task ___ You have proof of this ?

 

[SirPauly]

No surprise here. AMD's DX11 execution has been optimal, nvidia's was poor.

They lost a chunk of marketshare, and more importantly, mindshare - with DX11.

AMD has made a name for themselves with their great performing, affordable parts. The performance crown halo being theirs throughout DX11 and their beating nv to market with DX11 both helped to push their brand to the forefront in the discreet card market.

To some levels. Still waiting for the break down but based on Mercury Research from last quarter nVidia did retake over-all discrete leadership and had a sizable advantage with discrete desktop.

I agree with Anandthenman though, even with sizable advantages with discrete, it may slowly erode over time in over-all share.

 

[Arkadrel]

On the Smart Phone/tablets side:

Apple seems to be pushing OpenCL, and ARM is behinde OpenCL.
Nvidia's Cuda isnt gonna do much in the mobile phone's.

Tegra2 was "King of the Hill" for like a week, then a competitor had a faster chip.

Smart Phone bussiness is brutal.

Nvidia know what the future of mobile phones might look like though, because yesterdays discrete PC GPU is probably what tomorrows smart phone will look like.
So in that sense they have a tiny advantage.

That said even on desktop pc's, nvidia is generally behinde AMD by a good bit with performance/watt. In a phone performance/watt is probably a huge deal, and Id be lieing if I didnt say I think the competitors in the smart phone bussiness probably are better at makeing gpu's that use little to no power.


On the Desktop PC:

low end GPUs will probably erode to APUs (amd) or IGPs(intel), that are on-die.
High end GPUs will probably erode due to only console ports being made.

Im not sure if I was Nvidia or AMD, Id want to go overboard with chip sizes next gen.
Id go small and wait for next consol refresh cycle, before releaseing bigger chip cards.

 

[Gloomy]

Man, you guys are pessimists...

 

[AtenRa]

Tegra2 was "King of the Hill" for like a week, then a competitor had a faster chip.

Care to tell us who has the faster SOC ??

 

[SirPauly]

On the Smart Phone/tablets side:

Apple seems to be pushing OpenCL, and ARM is behinde OpenCL.
Nvidia's Cuda isnt gonna do much in the mobile phone's.

Tegra2 was "King of the Hill" for like a week, then a competitor had a faster chip.

Smart Phone bussiness is brutal.

Nvidia know what the future of mobile phones might look like though, because yesterdays discrete PC GPU is probably what tomorrows smart phone will look like.
So in that sense they have a tiny advantage.

That said even on desktop pc's, nvidia is generally behinde AMD by a good bit with performance/watt. In a phone performance/watt is probably a huge deal, and Id be lieing if I didnt say I think the competitors in the smart phone bussiness probably are better at makeing gpu's that use little to no power.


On the Desktop PC:

low end GPUs will probably erode to APUs (amd) or IGPs(intel), that are on-die.
High end GPUs will probably erode due to only console ports being made.

Im not sure if I was Nvidia or AMD, Id want to go overboard with chip sizes next gen.
Id go small and wait for next consol refresh cycle, before releaseing bigger chip cards.

nVidia business model is a bit different than AMD's. The bigger die may be needed for not just higher-end performing GeForce but also for Quadro and Tesla. It seems that nVidia is rolling the die on growth potential with GPU processing and Tegra growth as technology evolves into these very efficient small factors.

 

[PingviN]

Next gen of Tegra is due out in August. Quadcore with an improved GPU.

I am interested in seeing if Nvidia will be able to brute force their way into the market with an aggressive product cycle like they did in desktop graphics nearly 15 years ago.

We'll just hope they can keep it on schedule this time, competition is good.

This comment sounds looks like plagiarism from Charlie and makes zero sense. Tegra II is 'sad', LOL,

You don't think Tegra 2 is sad? It was late and it's not very competitive. It was the fastest chip for what? A week before being overrun by competitors?

and its only 'popular' because Google (that little company) made it the platform standard. To me thats like Miss America isn't really beautiful and talented, she was just chosen the winner by the judges !

Tegra 2 was looking good a couple of months ago, but now - up close - the shine is gone. Can't even decode high profile h.264 unless the video is coded exactly how Tegra 2 likes i.e. with no b-frames. Over at XDA, this is because Tegra 2 has an insufficient video processor. A tablet is made for consuming media, most videos are high profile h.264. I don't intend to convert my entire video library, which is why I wont buy a tablet with Tegra 2.

And yes, I am sure that Google picking Tegra 2 as development platform for Honeycomb has a large impact on what the manufacturers pick seeing how that means less work (meaning lower costs) for them.

Do you think Tegra 2 is great? I mean, really.

you don't use hardware not up for the task ___ You have proof of this ?

Proof of what? Competing with Apple with lacking hardware is what the manufacturers are aiming at? Samsung's said they're going for iPad 2 and latest is they'll be accompanying their own CPU design with Adreno 220.

Take off your green glasses man.

 

[PingviN]

Care to tell us who has the faster SOC ??

Texas Instruments.

 

[GaiaHunter]

Because noone wants to support PC gaming.

Developers are leaving us PC users for the 'green' fields of the console market.
If there were more PC games with advanced graphics that would definitely boost gpu sales. I'm sick of looking at brown and bloom Unreal Engine games that haven't changed much since the 360's introduction.

I agree 100%. PC gaming is becoming a wasteland, a select few quality titles the rest hasty console ports. Ugh.

Regarding discreet graphics share, I can honestly see a future where the traditional PC is relegated to the very high end and specialty tasks. Most people will be using some kind of portable device, perhaps seamlessly interconnected to various displays and peripherals.

Have you guys compared the number of mid-range or higher graphic cards in the market compared the number of consoles in the market?

The PC market is huge but the discrete market of GPUs higher than GTX260/4870 is tiny.

It isn't profitable to make games that cost $xx million to develop if that requires all the potential market to buy it.

It will only change when/if the potential market grows - that might happen in the future with APUs.

 

[notty22]

We'll just hope they can keep it on schedule this time, competition is good.



You don't think Tegra 2 is sad? It was late and it's not very competitive. It was the fastest chip for what? A week before being overrun by competitors?



Tegra 2 was looking good a couple of months ago, but now - up close - the shine is gone. Can't even decode high profile h.264 unless the video is coded exactly how Tegra 2 likes i.e. with no b-frames. Over at XDA, this is because Tegra 2 has an insufficient video processor. A tablet is made for consuming media, most videos are high profile h.264. I don't intend to convert my entire video library, which is why I wont buy a tablet with Tegra 2.

And yes, I am sure that Google picking Tegra 2 as development platform for Honeycomb has a large impact on what the manufacturers pick seeing how that means less work (meaning lower costs) for them.

Do you think Tegra 2 is great? I mean, really.



Proof of what? Competing with Apple with lacking hardware is what the manufacturers are aiming at? Samsung's said they're going for iPad 2 and latest is they'll be accompanying their own CPU design with Adreno 220.

Take off your green glasses man.

So you have no proof of its failure ? Maybe you should stop blindly hating a company and read some tech news/articles.

Sony is going forward with two new tablest/ Using the failed Tegra 2, and Oh, they are both going to be using the Playstation name.

http://www.gottabemobile.com/2011/05/04/sony’s-new-tablets-court-the-gaming-crowd/

http://www.fonehome.co.uk/2011/05/04/sony-s1-s2-processors-detailed/

 

[sawtx]

Texas Instruments.

I would also say Qualcomm with the new 1+GHz Snapdragons.

 

[tviceman]

If Tegra doesn't shape up, I think they've wasted a lot of money. Tegra 2 is just sad. Months and months late and now overtaken by the competition before the bulk of products has been released. Tegra 2 is popular because Google chose it as it's development platform for Android 3.0, but that will just be for the first wave of Honeycomb-based products. You'll probably see less Tegra 2 and more Adreno/PowerVR-equipped models once Asus and the rest clears out their stock. In a market where Apple is the target, you don't use hardware not up for the task.

Look at Tegra compared to how Nvidia started off with video cards. NV1 was god awful, barely saw the light of day. Same with Tegra 1. Riva TnT was a substantial improvement over NV1 - it wasn't the best solution on the market when it came out, but it was competitive. Same with Tegra 2. Tegra 3 and 4 will be comparable to TNT 2 and Geforce if Nvidia can maintain their aggressive schedule to launch these new products. If this happens, Tegra will be the defacto standard for which mobile computing devices are compared by performance wise.

 

[SirPauly]

Have you guys compared the number of mid-range or higher graphic cards in the market compared the number of consoles in the market?

The PC market is huge but the discrete market of GPUs higher than GTX260/4870 is tiny.

It isn't profitable to make games that cost $xx million to develop if that requires all the potential market to buy it.

It will only change when/if the potential market grows - that might happen in the future with APUs.

Why would you think an integrated solution is somehow going to be the saving grace for the PC from the doom-and-gloom PC gaming mind-set?

 

[Creig]

Man, you guys are pessimists...

I think my irony meter just exploded.

 

[PingviN]

So you have no proof of its failure ? Maybe you should stop blindly hating a company and read some tech news/articles.

I am indifferent to companies I don't own stock in. You should try it, it's kinda nice.

Sony is going forward with two new tablest/ Using the failed Tegra 2, and Oh, they are both going to be using the Playstation name.

http://www.gottabemobile.com/2011/05/04/sony’s-new-tablets-court-the-gaming-crowd/

http://www.fonehome.co.uk/2011/05/04/sony-s1-s2-processors-detailed/

It's still a first generation Honeycomb tablet.