if your not in a battle ground state it makes no sense to throw your vote away by not voting for a 3rd party.
opps, my bad!
Gore "created" the Internet, he didn't "invent" it.
inventing is so mundane....so "left-brain"
he created the internet!!! a much more "right-brain" activity, more of his feminine side showing through...
Kerry is funny. Now Helen Thomas (wacky-doodle pinko columnist, grande-dame of the Washington Press Corp) is ripping Kerry a new one....ripping him a new one!
How about Bush's attendance at the National Guard. If this is an issue against Kerry then the national guard records are an issue as well.
Completely different issue. Not attending military service (if you believe he didn't), is different than not attending meetings to do your elected Congressional duty on behalf of millions of people.
If you want to attack Bush on attendance, do so for his government positions. I am surpised that nobody has brought up that 42% drivel that Moore provides.
yes they are different. Bush's attendance was mandated and if found that he avoided his DUTY, during wartime he could have been tossed out of the guard. Not so with Kerry. And why is National Guard duty not a government position? Maybe you dont know your history well but since Bush got a deferment someone else was drafted into the military and more than likely to Vietnam in his place.
Don Vito Corleone
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How is it "ripping him a new one" to critique one thing he said in the midst of what she calls a "good speech"? You are borrowing a page from your friend Riprorin's book of yellow journalism.
You know HS, when I first started reading your posts on ATPN, it seemed as if you had some integrity. Where did that go?
You are an educated and accomplished man, I'm sure you can do better than this meaningless blather that you have taken to posting.
Try wrong year and for Kerry never.
I do find this rather interesting the amount of claims Kerry is making that are being proven false. Not sure to find it funny or alarming.
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I suspect that many of them are not actually his own, but handlers taking tidbits of info and then trying to weaven a teflon flak jacket.
Novices in his camp are under-estimating the tenacity of the Repubs to magnify every statement. Showing inconsistency in message consistently will cause discredit.
How many people does a single member of the National guard affect? How many people does a senator affect?
The importance of their jobs is in different leagues. Bush is (or was, or wasn't) 1 of thousands, if not millions, of individuals serving in our armed forces. Kerry is 1 of 2 senators serving the millions of people in Massachusetts.
I am amazed that you can try the same tired old crap of try to extract single words, out of context, and try to make something of them, while staring at the full context, complete with a link to the text of the full interview.
Your logic is so fishy, you could consider changing your nick to heartSTURGEON.
I read Helen Thomas's entire article. She's an unapolgetic liberal, and from that position, she does lament that Kerry hasn't taken stronger stances against some of Bush's positions, but I would hardly call it "ripping him a new one." If you think she ripped Kerry a new one, how do you read this quote from her editorial?
Since you're such an expert on "ripping a new one," maybe you should switch your practice to proctology. You're obviously more experienced with that end of the digestive tract than with matters of the human heart. :laugh:
Kerry has repeated exaggerated and misrepresented his "semester" in Vietnam as well many things associated with his "semester" there.
he lied in his testimony before the Senate about "war crimes" - he has essentially admited this to Chris Mathews in a interview this year.
he lied about testimony that was supposedly given by vietnam veterans who later turned out never to have even been in the military, mush less vietnam.
he lied about throwing his medals away in protest of the vietnam war.
he lied about spending Christmas in Cambodia while Nixon was president (he must have been smoking some powerful sh!t to have hallucinated this scenario)
and now several hundred veterans who served with Kerry in the swiftboat corps are stating that he exaggerated his actions, his injuries, and his competence (a.k.a. lied) in an planned effort to build up a portfolio worthy of a future presidential aspirant.
all seems to add up to me....
he lied in his testimony before the Senate about "war crimes" - he has essentially admited this to Chris Mathews in a interview this year.
he lied about testimony that was supposedly given by vietnam veterans who later turned out never to have even been in the military, mush less vietnam.
he lied about throwing his medals away in protest of the vietnam war.
he lied about spending Christmas in Cambodia while Nixon was president (he must have been smoking some powerful sh!t to have hallucinated this scenario)
and now several hundred veterans who served with Kerry in the swiftboat corps are stating that he exaggerated his actions, his injuries, and his competence (a.k.a. lied) in an planned effort to build up a portfolio worthy of a future presidential aspirant.
all seems to add up to me....
I am curious but how many "semesters" at a school where you can get shot at, set off a mine etc. Your lame attempt at trying to belittle a person's service in Vietnam just re enforces the general perception of you on these boards.
Oh, really? Do you think Mi Lai was an isolated incident?
Got link? I won't comment until I see documentation.
Buahaha! So he tossed ribbons instead of medals. For all but the most sitckidy-ass bullsh8 artists, they are interchangable generic nominclature for various awards pinned on his chest. Whether you're talking about medals or ribbons, at least, he actually won the awards, and he still has the shrapnel in his leg to prove it.
OTOH, so far, chickenhawk, Bushwhacko was willing to toss away thousands of lives and a half TRILLION dollars of Federal debt on an elective war BASED ENTIRELY ON LIES, but he can't even produce paperwork to prove he showed up for his active duty at summer camp.
Nixon wasnt a dope smoker. He was a paranoid meglomaniac speed freak. In his book, Worse than Watergate, even John Dean, Nixon's White House counsel during the Watergate scandal, says Bush's lies and deceit make this administration scarier and more dangerous than Nixon's.
Why you'd bring up another Republican crook to make any point is beyond me, but you're welcome to try.
I assume you're talking about the NOT SO SWIFT boat liars, most of whom never actually saw Kerry while in Viet Nam, even if they happened to show up for the same war.
I agree with the statement, but with very different conclusions.
Thanks to conjur for his post in this thread and his link to this article on msnbc.com.
I won't cut and paste the entire article. You can check conjur's thread and the actual link to msnbc to find out just how full of sh8 your beloved NOT SO SWIFT boat liars are. :|
Question for you, heartsurgeon -- When presented with verifiable evidence, are you capable of linear thought and rational conclusions? :roll:
Just one problem, the "military records" you precious article cites are the citations for the medals that were given to Kerry and another SwiftBoat officier on the same day.
The problem is that the citations both quote Kerry's report about the incident
nobody else in action that day reports ANY gunfire. the boats where in "whithering gun fire" per Kerry's recolection, without any casulaties, nobody wounded by gunfire, no gunfire damage to the boats, and the boats stayed in this area of purported "intense gun fire" for 1.5 hours!!
the events recalled by the other boat capts is as follows:
4-5 boats,
#3 boat hits a mine in the water..
Kerry's boat speeds away frm the area...as he does this, the Special Op's guy falls off the boat..
the other boats gather around the damaged boat and repair it enough to keep it from sinking, and tend to a soldier wounded by the exploding mine..
Kerry finall turns his boat around and comes back to pick up the guy that fell off his boat.
Kerry adds withering gun fire and turns a cowardly act into a medal...he files the only "afteraction report" that makes any mention of gunfire...
Well lets use Rip's way of say that was a lie..
It was not a Special Op guy. It was a Green Beret. So those peoples description must be all false because it was not a special ops person.
Also if you notice the person that kerry saved agrees with kerrys account of what happened.
< heartsurgeon manages to get both feet in mouth > :shocked:
Directly from the article in The Washington Post:
heartsurgeon -- For a guy with nothing say, how do you find so many words to say it? :roll:
oh well, another liberal who can't read...
the "military records" that "document" the circumstances of Kerry's "action" and that of Thurlow as well, are based on Kerry's after action report
hello??
wake up!!
if this is truely the case, explain to me how come none of the other Swift Boat participants in that "constant small arms fire: for 1.5 hours remember any of it, didn't get wounded, didn't damage any boats...
You know, i was draft age during the Vietnam War, and God Bless anyone who went and served there. I salute Kerry for actually doing that. But he's taken a "semester" worth of combat, tried to puff it up in everyway possible, and is now trying to ride that pony across the finish line.
It's just plain weak. I honestly don't care what he did or didn't do in Vietnam...legal, illegal, we salute you for your service, but quit lying about it, quit trying to make it into something it wasn't, quit trying to spin it into the great american war novel.
and you know, he is the one to blame for all of this.
you never hear McCain talk about his service..the poor b@stard was in a POW camp for 5 years. He never talks about it. But everyone knows..it makes him seem more serious, more sincere, more real. Kerry has turned his service (what ever it was) into a comic book episode....he just keeps using it non-stop to aggrandize himself.
just my humble opinion...
the "military records" that "document" the circumstances of Kerry's "action" and that of Thurlow as well, are based on Kerry's after action report
hello??
wake up!!
if this is truely the case, explain to me how come none of the other Swift Boat participants in that "constant small arms fire: for 1.5 hours remember any of it, didn't get wounded, didn't damage any boats...
You know, i was draft age during the Vietnam War, and God Bless anyone who went and served there. I salute Kerry for actually doing that. But he's taken a "semester" worth of combat, tried to puff it up in everyway possible, and is now trying to ride that pony across the finish line.
It's just plain weak. I honestly don't care what he did or didn't do in Vietnam...legal, illegal, we salute you for your service, but quit lying about it, quit trying to make it into something it wasn't, quit trying to spin it into the great american war novel.
and you know, he is the one to blame for all of this.
you never hear McCain talk about his service..the poor b@stard was in a POW camp for 5 years. He never talks about it. But everyone knows..it makes him seem more serious, more sincere, more real. Kerry has turned his service (what ever it was) into a comic book episode....he just keeps using it non-stop to aggrandize himself.
just my humble opinion...
... said le pot calling la bouilloire very noire. You specifically asked:
If the Post story is even remotely credible
Apparently, some others remembered the fire and remember Thurlow being there.
ONLY on Kerry's action report? And you know this how? :shocked: Why should anyone accept the word of someone like Thurlow, who did manage to accept the Bronze Star for the events that day, word, the word of a revisionist with an agenda, bought and paid for by the Republican smear machine.
Not humble enough. You still have said nothing. :|
O.K.,
In my most humble opinion...
lets just get all the source documents out..
I call on Sen. Kerry to release ALL his military records for public review...
that should let the truth be known!!
how can anyone be against that???
(trust me, someone will be against it, just because i suggested it)
Agreed, and while we're at it, let's get all of Bush's military records out, too. Maybe he really did show up at summer camp and fly airplanes, instead of flying the coop, even though the records, so far, don't support it.
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