Well that's a different issue, and one that only reveals how much the Republicans rely on taking a choice of words and trying to turn them into lame attacks on candidates ("global test" ring any bells?). But whatever you think about what Obama said, the fact is that Joe the Plumber shouldn't STILL be a factor in the campaign...the focus should be on what Obama did or did not say, if anything, not on some random guy who happened to be standing there when he said it. McCain kept bringing him up in a rally today, for example...that seems pretty strange to me.
Well that's a different issue, and one that only reveals how much the Republicans rely on taking a choice of words and trying to turn them into lame attacks on candidates ("global test" ring any bells?). But whatever you think about what Obama said, the fact is that Joe the Plumber shouldn't STILL be a factor in the campaign...the focus should be on what Obama did or did not say, if anything, not on some random guy who happened to be standing there when he said it. McCain kept bringing him up in a rally today, for example...that seems pretty strange to me.
No it doesn't. It's ridiculous pandering, trying to make it seem like McCain supports regular Americans (not like those elitist plumbers voting for Obama), when in fact the opposite is true.
"Joe the Plumber" is important as political symbolism because you can hear the big flush on John McCain's campaign and it's starting to overflow.
Since it doesn't appear to have been noted yet in this thread, even if "Joe the plumber" does manage to buy the business, he still would not actually be hurt by Obama's tax plan.
He at best was at best completely mistaken about how much money the small plumbing business actually makes.
In fact, the evidence strongly suggests either way Joe the plumber actually would be better off with the Obama tax plan as opposed to the McCain one.
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/27221645/
He at best was at best completely mistaken about how much money the small plumbing business actually makes.
In fact, the evidence strongly suggests either way Joe the plumber actually would be better off with the Obama tax plan as opposed to the McCain one.
The thing that confuses me is McCain's campaign blaming Obama for putting Joe the Plumber in the spotlight.
Didn't Joe go to that campaign event and ask the question of his own free will?
Wasn't McCain the one that brought up Joe in the third debate to use as a political pawn?
Did Obama force Joe to do all those interviews after the debate?
So how is it Obama's fault that the media is investigating Joe's claims?
This is a presidential election and the media investigates EVERYTHING in a presidential election. Obama certainly doesn't control it or he would've squashed the Ayers investigations.
I'm genuinely interested in someone explaining how McCain's campaign can blame this on Obama. I just can't wrap my head around their logic.
Didn't Joe go to that campaign event and ask the question of his own free will?
Wasn't McCain the one that brought up Joe in the third debate to use as a political pawn?
Did Obama force Joe to do all those interviews after the debate?
So how is it Obama's fault that the media is investigating Joe's claims?
This is a presidential election and the media investigates EVERYTHING in a presidential election. Obama certainly doesn't control it or he would've squashed the Ayers investigations.
I'm genuinely interested in someone explaining how McCain's campaign can blame this on Obama. I just can't wrap my head around their logic.
The strategy is Karl Rove 101.
No matter what the facts are, lie, then lie some more, then lie again. Then let the republican media echo chamber keep repeating the lie.
RY62
Senior member
- Mar 13, 2005
- 891
- 153
- 106
If I understand, Obama was campaigning in Joe's neighborhood and speaking to the people. Joe asked Obama a question, while the cameras were running. The answer Obama gave, which included something about "spreading the wealth around", was picked up to highlight Obama's socialist agenda.
The right used Obama's answer against him and the left decided to attack Joe. It's all Joe's fault. If Joe hadn't asked such a question, Obama wouldn't have given such an answer. Joe shouldn't have asked Obama any kind of real policy question. He should've just accepted the Kool-Aid. Joe was just an average American, in his own community, asking a question. How dare he!
Joe must be destroyed!
The beauty of the plumber moment was it didn't matter who Joe was or is. What Joe said was not important. What was important is what Kid Sunshine said - he gave himself away as the Marxist hoodlum he is. The Obama thugocracy can sent all the lawyers and thugs after Joe they want (and they are) - its Obama who condemned himself and the toothpaste isn't going back in the tube. A reason BO always stutters is he has to mentally filter his Marxist true self through his mainstream simulation app. This time he was open and unplugged.
you are delusional. Joe the plumber will benefit under Obamas tax plan and that is a fact. if Joe wants to start his own small business and hire a few employees he will continue to benefit from Obamas tax plan, another fact. if Joe becomes extremely rich, he pays more taxes because he makes more money. the Republicans tax lies are finally coming to an end.
Are you parodying the silly logic I was talking about? I can't really tell.
If you're for real... Obama took the time to answer the guy's question with a five minute answer and ended with "I understand if I don't get your vote". How is that a hoodlum? What lawyers or thugs did he send after Joe?
Or how is his plan in any way Marxist? I don't think you even know what that word means, but by your same skewed logic then McCain is a Marxist for going to Washington to push the bailout which socializes elements of the banking sector.
He's being serious.
I know people tend towards hyperbole on here, character assassination of each other, etc, but I mean it when I say that Butterbean is totally batshit insane. Go search for some of his posts and you'll see this guy should probably be on medication.
idiotekniQues
Platinum Member
- Jan 4, 2007
- 2,572
- 0
- 76
Bitek
Lifer
- Aug 2, 2001
- 10,676
- 5,239
- 136
Its a totally nonsensical strategy, and Joe doesn't know wtf he is talking about. In all fairness, neither does McCain.
My bro is a Master level plumber, about 3 degrees higher than ol Joe, and actually has the experience and licensing to own a business.
My cousin owns a plumbing business and earns somewhere in $250K+. But his business is about the largest in the city, and has $3M+ in reciepts and has 6-10 employees. I can tell you, in the scheme of things, that little bit of extra tax is not going to dissuade someone from buying a business to make that much. To put things in perspective, he spends $20K/mo in yellow pages advertising alone. Ins on a fleet of work vans is also hugely expensive, and the far far far biggest increase in profitably would be to start solving the energy problem and lower fuel prices. Paying $3-4/gal for said fleet of workvans that get 10-12mpg that log hundreds of miles a day is killer.
I can also tell you my cousin is a rich MF, and also uses the business for tax write offs and loopholes that I could never do as a normal professional class worker. He buys $80K luxury SUVs and is able to write them down as capital equipment as a work truck for example... all sorts of little things you can do.
Poor ol Joe has no idea what he is talking about. I talked to my bro about it and he laughed his ass off (reg R and voted Bush 2X btw, Obama this time tho.)
If his boss is trying to sell him a company that he's telling him makes $250K plus... well the boss is snowballing Joe and just trying to cash out, or Joe will buy it, and lose all his money as he will not be able to run it and manage it. If 'ol Joe is serious, he needs to take the years and tests to get his licenses (the vast majority fail) and perhaps start his own business first to get the experience and expertise of running a business. Perhaps even just grow that himself rather than sinking millions into a turnkey that's too big for him.
OTOH, if Joe is actually capable of doing this (...right...) he would be the biggest asshole on Earth to actually worry about that extra 3% tax on earnings over $250K when having such a business opens up sooooo many other possibilities.
My bro is a Master level plumber, about 3 degrees higher than ol Joe, and actually has the experience and licensing to own a business.
My cousin owns a plumbing business and earns somewhere in $250K+. But his business is about the largest in the city, and has $3M+ in reciepts and has 6-10 employees. I can tell you, in the scheme of things, that little bit of extra tax is not going to dissuade someone from buying a business to make that much. To put things in perspective, he spends $20K/mo in yellow pages advertising alone. Ins on a fleet of work vans is also hugely expensive, and the far far far biggest increase in profitably would be to start solving the energy problem and lower fuel prices. Paying $3-4/gal for said fleet of workvans that get 10-12mpg that log hundreds of miles a day is killer.
I can also tell you my cousin is a rich MF, and also uses the business for tax write offs and loopholes that I could never do as a normal professional class worker. He buys $80K luxury SUVs and is able to write them down as capital equipment as a work truck for example... all sorts of little things you can do.
Poor ol Joe has no idea what he is talking about. I talked to my bro about it and he laughed his ass off (reg R and voted Bush 2X btw, Obama this time tho.)
If his boss is trying to sell him a company that he's telling him makes $250K plus... well the boss is snowballing Joe and just trying to cash out, or Joe will buy it, and lose all his money as he will not be able to run it and manage it. If 'ol Joe is serious, he needs to take the years and tests to get his licenses (the vast majority fail) and perhaps start his own business first to get the experience and expertise of running a business. Perhaps even just grow that himself rather than sinking millions into a turnkey that's too big for him.
OTOH, if Joe is actually capable of doing this (...right...) he would be the biggest asshole on Earth to actually worry about that extra 3% tax on earnings over $250K when having such a business opens up sooooo many other possibilities.
What the heck are you talking about? Nobody is trying to "destroy" anybody...you guys have seriously gone through the portal into Narnia this election, haven't you?
Dear right-wing idiots (not all right-wingers, the idiots):
If one person says "let's give a billion dollars in tax cuts all to the top 1%", and the liberal respond "no, let's distribute the cuts more evenly and spread the wealth", that's not wrong.
You want to defend lopsided tax cuts for a few people at the very top? That's the real socialist position.
That's exactly the issue. From Reagan to Bush, the Republicans have picked policies that redistribute wealth from the bottom and middle up to the top. It's a drastic redistribution of wealth that sees most Americans gaining 0% after inflation over 25 years but the richest people in the country gaining 500% increases. And you say you are *against* redistribution of wealth? Why only in one direction?
McCain and Obama aren't talking about different amounts of taxation; they're talking about whether $300B more in cuts should go to the top (McCain) or whether the top 2% who gained unfair wealth redistribution under the Reagan/Bush policies should not get to continue that and have their top rate raised back 3% from 36% to 39%, in order to more fairly give larger cuts to the middle.
You want to attack that? Thenyu are supporting a new kind of US we have never had to the extreme you want in concentration of wealth where the American dream is harmed.
But don't go around lying that Obama's plan not to give all the money to one small wealthy group and to be more fair is 'socialism', when you are the real 'socialists of the rich'.
If one person says "let's give a billion dollars in tax cuts all to the top 1%", and the liberal respond "no, let's distribute the cuts more evenly and spread the wealth", that's not wrong.
You want to defend lopsided tax cuts for a few people at the very top? That's the real socialist position.
That's exactly the issue. From Reagan to Bush, the Republicans have picked policies that redistribute wealth from the bottom and middle up to the top. It's a drastic redistribution of wealth that sees most Americans gaining 0% after inflation over 25 years but the richest people in the country gaining 500% increases. And you say you are *against* redistribution of wealth? Why only in one direction?
McCain and Obama aren't talking about different amounts of taxation; they're talking about whether $300B more in cuts should go to the top (McCain) or whether the top 2% who gained unfair wealth redistribution under the Reagan/Bush policies should not get to continue that and have their top rate raised back 3% from 36% to 39%, in order to more fairly give larger cuts to the middle.
You want to attack that? Thenyu are supporting a new kind of US we have never had to the extreme you want in concentration of wealth where the American dream is harmed.
But don't go around lying that Obama's plan not to give all the money to one small wealthy group and to be more fair is 'socialism', when you are the real 'socialists of the rich'.
RY62
Senior member
- Mar 13, 2005
- 891
- 153
- 106
Joe needs to be destroyed. He questioned Obama. Joe was never vetted before asking the question. We need to comb through his tax records, criminal records, driving records, license records, work history, educational background. etc. and go public with anything to discredit him. People must know that there are consequences for questioning Obama.
I heard a Democrat on TV say that Joe isn't even his real name. Joe is his middle name. Why is he using his middle name? He must be hiding something. "Joe" owes nearly $1200 in unpaid taxes and doesn't have a plumbers license. Joe ran a redlight and failed to provide proof of insurance in Feb 2000. He owes $727.90 for traffic fines in AZ and his drivers license in AZ was suspended. He has a valid Ohio drivers license but we're working on getting that suspended too.
When we're finished with Joe, no common citizen will ever dare to question Obama again.
- Aug 22, 2001
- 32,286
- 33,108
- 146
McCain put the spotlight squarely on "Joe" with over 50 million people watching, and used him as a poster boy to attack Obama's economic policies. He ceased to be the common citizen the moment that happened. After invoking Joe the plumber 20 times, even leading to your opponent addressing him personally, you are damned right he is going to get put under the microscope.
Look, no defense of "Joe" is going to change the fact that Sam aka Joe, was full of shit, period. Had he been who he claimed to be, and then Mac had shined the spotlight on him, this discussion wouldn't be taking place.
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