Joe the plumber

[UberNeuman]

LEAVE JOE ALONE - boohoohoo........ *tear

 

[Xavier434]

Originally posted by: Darwin333
Shrug, the media sure has dug up a ton of dirt on this guy in a very short amount of time.

Maybe that wouldn't have been the case if McCain didn't elect to use him as his centerfold during his final debate. Maybe McCain should have done the digging himself first and weigh the possibilities before taking the plunge. Isn't that part of running an intelligent and well thought out campaign?

You can't blame the media for dumping tons of info on us. You can blame them for the spins and half truths but not the information itself unless it is proven to be inaccurate.

 

[techs]

What I find is the incredible stupidity of the American people.
Now that we know Joe didn't pay his taxes and he will actually be helped more by Obama's tax plan than McCains, McCain continues to use him as a cornerstone of his campaign.
And the people who go to his rallies cheer Joe the Plumber?
Its as if they don't know they were pwned.

 

[jman19]

Originally posted by: Corbett

Originally posted by: umbrella39
Face it Corbett, you are a laughing stock here.

Even if that were true, I could care less what people on an internet forum think of me.

In any case, your deflection from the topic shows how pathetic your argument is in the first place.

How much less could you care? A lot, a little?

 

[Xavier434]

Originally posted by: techs
What I find is the incredible stupidity of the American people.
Now that we know Joe didn't pay his taxes and he will actually be helped more by Obama's tax plan than McCains, McCain continues to use him as a cornerstone of his campaign.
And the people who go to his rallies cheer Joe the Plumber?
Its as if they don't know they were pwned.

I agree, but it is not just stupidity. It is a lack of information combined with the grapevine effect involving others who also lack information. While I wish that most Americans would take the time to do what is necessary in order to obtain what I call "his side, her side, and the truth" I know it will never happen amongst the majority. Therefore, all I ever ask of people is that they remain flexible so that when information does cross their path they give credit where credit is due and consider it fairly instead of almost immediate dismissal.

 

[Robor]

Originally posted by: tangent1138
The thing that confuses me is McCain's campaign blaming Obama for putting Joe the Plumber in the spotlight.

Didn't Joe go to that campaign event and ask the question of his own free will?
Wasn't McCain the one that brought up Joe in the third debate to use as a political pawn?
Did Obama force Joe to do all those interviews after the debate?
So how is it Obama's fault that the media is investigating Joe's claims?

This is a presidential election and the media investigates EVERYTHING in a presidential election. Obama certainly doesn't control it or he would've squashed the Ayers investigations.

I'm genuinely interested in someone explaining how McCain's campaign can blame this on Obama. I just can't wrap my head around their logic.

Just more feigned outrage from the right. What else is new?

 

[Robor]

Originally posted by: Butterbean
The beauty of the plumber moment was it didn't matter who Joe was or is. What Joe said was not important. What was important is what Kid Sunshine said - he gave himself away as the Marxist hoodlum he is. The Obama thugocracy can sent all the lawyers and thugs after Joe they want (and they are) - its Obama who condemned himself and the toothpaste isn't going back in the tube. A reason BO always stutters is he has to mentally filter his Marxist true self through his mainstream simulation app. This time he was open and unplugged.

Will you promise to leave the country if Obama wins? Or at least this forum?

 

[Robor]

Originally posted by: RY62

Originally posted by: Rainsford

Originally posted by: RY62

Originally posted by: tangent1138
The thing that confuses me is McCain's campaign blaming Obama for putting Joe the Plumber in the spotlight.

Didn't Joe go to that campaign and ask the question of his own free will?
Wasn't McCain the one that brought up Joe in the third debate to use as a political pawn?
Did Obama force Joe to do all those interviews after the debate?
So how is it Obama's fault that the media is investigating Joe's claims?

This is a presidential election and the media investigates EVERYTHING in a presidential election. Obama certainly doesn't control it or he would've squashed the Ayers investigations.

I'm genuinely interested in someone explaining how McCain's campaign can blame this on Obama. I just can't wrap my head around their logic.

If I understand, Obama was campaigning in Joe's neighborhood and speaking to the people. Joe asked Obama a question, while the cameras were running. The answer Obama gave, which included something about "spreading the wealth around", was picked up to highlight Obama's socialist agenda.

The right used Obama's answer against him and the left decided to attack Joe. It's all Joe's fault. If Joe hadn't asked such a question, Obama wouldn't have given such an answer. Joe shouldn't have asked Obama any kind of real policy question. He should've just accepted the Kool-Aid. Joe was just an average American, in his own community, asking a question. How dare he!

Joe must be destroyed!

What the heck are you talking about? Nobody is trying to "destroy" anybody...you guys have seriously gone through the portal into Narnia this election, haven't you?

Joe needs to be destroyed. He questioned Obama. Joe was never vetted before asking the question. We need to comb through his tax records, criminal records, driving records, license records, work history, educational background. etc. and go public with anything to discredit him. People must know that there are consequences for questioning Obama.

I heard a Democrat on TV say that Joe isn't even his real name. Joe is his middle name. Why is he using his middle name? He must be hiding something. "Joe" owes nearly $1200 in unpaid taxes and doesn't have a plumbers license. Joe ran a redlight and failed to provide proof of insurance in Feb 2000. He owes $727.90 for traffic fines in AZ and his drivers license in AZ was suspended. He has a valid Ohio drivers license but we're working on getting that suspended too.

When we're finished with Joe, no common citizen will ever dare to question Obama again.

Still sour over Obama beating Hillary, I see. Anyway, since you're playing the blame game 'Joe' can look at 2 people - himself and McCain.

 

[Xavier434]

Originally posted by: RY62
Joe needs to be destroyed. He questioned Obama. Joe was never vetted before asking the question. We need to comb through his tax records, criminal records, driving records, license records, work history, educational background. etc. and go public with anything to discredit him. People must know that there are consequences for questioning Obama.

I heard a Democrat on TV say that Joe isn't even his real name. Joe is his middle name. Why is he using his middle name? He must be hiding something. "Joe" owes nearly $1200 in unpaid taxes and doesn't have a plumbers license. Joe ran a redlight and failed to provide proof of insurance in Feb 2000. He owes $727.90 for traffic fines in AZ and his drivers license in AZ was suspended. He has a valid Ohio drivers license but we're working on getting that suspended too.

When we're finished with Joe, no common citizen will ever dare to question Obama again.

Add this to your list:

Joe can most certainly get to the point of buying the business he wants and Obama's plans will make that easier for him as shown by many economic experts and the Wallstreet Journal.

I have no issue putting aside all of the other slandering. That part is really what should be focused on.

 

[evident]

Originally posted by: Butterbean
The beauty of the plumber moment was it didn't matter who Joe was or is. What Joe said was not important. What was important is what Kid Sunshine said - he gave himself away as the Marxist hoodlum he is. The Obama thugocracy can sent all the lawyers and thugs after Joe they want (and they are) - its Obama who condemned himself and the toothpaste isn't going back in the tube. A reason BO always stutters is he has to mentally filter his Marxist true self through his mainstream simulation app. This time he was open and unplugged.

Can you explain to me what marxism is?

 

[nixium]

Originally posted by: RY62

Originally posted by: Rainsford

Originally posted by: RY62

Originally posted by: tangent1138
The thing that confuses me is McCain's campaign blaming Obama for putting Joe the Plumber in the spotlight.

Didn't Joe go to that campaign and ask the question of his own free will?
Wasn't McCain the one that brought up Joe in the third debate to use as a political pawn?
Did Obama force Joe to do all those interviews after the debate?
So how is it Obama's fault that the media is investigating Joe's claims?

This is a presidential election and the media investigates EVERYTHING in a presidential election. Obama certainly doesn't control it or he would've squashed the Ayers investigations.

I'm genuinely interested in someone explaining how McCain's campaign can blame this on Obama. I just can't wrap my head around their logic.

If I understand, Obama was campaigning in Joe's neighborhood and speaking to the people. Joe asked Obama a question, while the cameras were running. The answer Obama gave, which included something about "spreading the wealth around", was picked up to highlight Obama's socialist agenda.

The right used Obama's answer against him and the left decided to attack Joe. It's all Joe's fault. If Joe hadn't asked such a question, Obama wouldn't have given such an answer. Joe shouldn't have asked Obama any kind of real policy question. He should've just accepted the Kool-Aid. Joe was just an average American, in his own community, asking a question. How dare he!

Joe must be destroyed!

What the heck are you talking about? Nobody is trying to "destroy" anybody...you guys have seriously gone through the portal into Narnia this election, haven't you?

Joe needs to be destroyed. He questioned Obama. Joe was never vetted before asking the question. We need to comb through his tax records, criminal records, driving records, license records, work history, educational background. etc. and go public with anything to discredit him. People must know that there are consequences for questioning Obama.

I heard a Democrat on TV say that Joe isn't even his real name. Joe is his middle name. Why is he using his middle name? He must be hiding something. "Joe" owes nearly $1200 in unpaid taxes and doesn't have a plumbers license. Joe ran a redlight and failed to provide proof of insurance in Feb 2000. He owes $727.90 for traffic fines in AZ and his drivers license in AZ was suspended. He has a valid Ohio drivers license but we're working on getting that suspended too.

When we're finished with Joe, no common citizen will ever dare to question Obama again.

I don't understand the republican glee with highlighting how "Joe the Plumber" is getting screwed by Obama. It's not like Obama's tax plans were a secret before this guy. What's next, a CEO coming up to Obama and lamenting how the high tax bracket is going to stop him from enjoying the full benefits of a 1M+ salary? It's a very stupid point and all smoke and mirrors. Of course Obama wants to tax the rich and let the lower middle class save some cash. Duh. You pubs are acting as if this is some deep, dark, dirty scandalous secret that the Dems and Obama have been hiding all this while.

And what's this whole "destroying" thing? So far, everyone knows about Joe the plumber. No one gives a shit. It's not some giant media conspiracy to tarnish the "common man". Please, please use Occam's razor. At least once in a while.

It's not like you can't ask hard questions of McCain/Palin either. Can you imagine the disaster if Palin were allowed to "meet the public"? Every politician can be taken off guard by a well placed question, since no political platform can ever please *everyone*.

The part that annoys me about this whole thing is that (1) the political point made is meaningless, since everyone already knew about Obama's tax proposals and (2) Joe the plumber thing is too glib, too easy and is an insult to anyone who wants in-depth discussions of political issues and not shallow gimmickry.

EDIT: You're a Hillary supporter??? You think Hillary would'nt have wanted a piece of what poor rich Joe the Plumber made?

 

[nixium]

Originally posted by: eskimospy

Originally posted by: tangent1138

Originally posted by: Butterbean
The beauty of the plumber moment was it didn't matter who Joe was or is. What Joe said was not important. What was important is what Kid Sunshine said - he gave himself away as the Marxist hoodlum he is. They Obama thugocracy can sent all the lawyers and thugs after Joe they want (and they are) - its Obama who condemned himself and the toothpaste isn't going back in the tube.

Are you parodying the silly logic I was talking about? I can't really tell.

If you're for real... Obama took the time to answer the guy's question with a five minute answer and ended with "I understand if I don't get your vote". How is that a hoodlum? What lawyers or thugs did he send after Joe?

Or how is his plan in any way Marxist? I don't think you even know what that word means, but by your same skewed logic then McCain is a Marxist for going to Washington to push the bailout which socializes elements of the banking sector.

He's being serious.

I know people tend towards hyperbole on here, character assassination of each other, etc, but I mean it when I say that Butterbean is totally batshit insane. Go search for some of his posts and you'll see this guy should probably be on medication.

There's no way he can be serious.. he's a little too overboard for that. He's the internet forum poster equivalent of a situation that's so absurd that your mind invents a comfortable illusion to rationalize it.

 

[nixium]

Originally posted by: Bitek
Its a totally nonsensical strategy, and Joe doesn't know wtf he is talking about. In all fairness, neither does McCain.
My bro is a Master level plumber, about 3 degrees higher than ol Joe, and actually has the experience and licensing to own a business.

My cousin owns a plumbing business and earns somewhere in $250K+. But his business is about the largest in the city, and has $3M+ in reciepts and has 6-10 employees. I can tell you, in the scheme of things, that little bit of extra tax is not going to dissuade someone from buying a business to make that much. To put things in perspective, he spends $20K/mo in yellow pages advertising alone. Ins on a fleet of work vans is also hugely expensive, and the far far far biggest increase in profitably would be to start solving the energy problem and lower fuel prices. Paying $3-4/gal for said fleet of workvans that get 10-12mpg that log hundreds of miles a day is killer.

I can also tell you my cousin is a rich MF, and also uses the business for tax write offs and loopholes that I could never do as a normal professional class worker. He buys $80K luxury SUVs and is able to write them down as capital equipment as a work truck for example... all sorts of little things you can do.

Poor ol Joe has no idea what he is talking about. I talked to my bro about it and he laughed his ass off (reg R and voted Bush 2X btw, Obama this time tho.)
If his boss is trying to sell him a company that he's telling him makes $250K plus... well the boss is snowballing Joe and just trying to cash out, or Joe will buy it, and lose all his money as he will not be able to run it and manage it. If 'ol Joe is serious, he needs to take the years and tests to get his licenses (the vast majority fail) and perhaps start his own business first to get the experience and expertise of running a business. Perhaps even just grow that himself rather than sinking millions into a turnkey that's too big for him.

OTOH, if Joe is actually capable of doing this (...right...) he would be the biggest asshole on Earth to actually worry about that extra 3% tax on earnings over $250K when having such a business opens up sooooo many other possibilities.

+1

 

[nixium]

Originally posted by: Corbett

Originally posted by: umbrella39

Originally posted by: Corbett

Originally posted by: umbrella39
Face it Corbett, you are a laughing stock here.

Originally posted by: Corbett

Originally posted by: umbrella39
Face it Corbett, you are a laughing stock here.

Even if that were true, I could care less what people on an internet forum think of me.

In any case, your deflection from the topic shows how pathetic your argument is in the first place.

Face it Corbett, you are a laughing stock here.

Troll much?

Get a room, you two.

 

[nixium]

Originally posted by: Rainsford
nixium, you're thinking too logically. In American politics, it's not important that you have a good set of ideas so much as it's about telling a good story. He has NO practical relevance to the debate, but he's like the poster boy for the "average American", at least according to the legend of what that's supposed to look like. It would be equally relevant to talk about Diego the Software Developer, but nobody cares what he thinks because he's not directly out of central casting.

You're right, and it's very annoying. I think the average american could be a lot more intelligent if he/she tried. But since everyone - including politicians and the media - assume that they're dumb, it becomes a self fulfilling prophecy. What's wrong with giving the public something to think about? Common sense and street smartness, which is what politics is all about, shouldn't require a college degree.

 

[nixium]

Originally posted by: techs
Before long where going to see Joe the Plumber in a porno.

I read somewhere that he'd already gotten a book/tv talk show offer or something. A porno isn't *too* far off.

Joe the plumber and a palin lookalike. Time for the Rs to show that they are indeed sensitive to the common man's needs

 

[Stuxnet]

Originally posted by: Rainsford
where's MY centerpiece appearance in the campaign?

Stump Obama and you'll be sure to be propped up by the McCain supporters and raped in your future second asshole by the Obama supporters.

 

[Xavier434]

Originally posted by: jbourne77

Originally posted by: Rainsford
where's MY centerpiece appearance in the campaign?

Stump Obama and you'll be sure to be propped up by the McCain supporters and raped in your future second asshole by the Obama supporters.

How did Joe stump Obama? After looking at all the facts, it would appear that Obama stumped Joe.

 

[heyheybooboo]

Originally posted by: nixium

Originally posted by: techs
Before long where going to see Joe the Plumber in a porno.

I read somewhere that he'd already gotten a book/tv talk show offer or something. A porno isn't *too* far off.

Joe the plumber and a palin lookalike. Time for the Rs to show that they are indeed sensitive to the common man's needs

This could be a watershed moment in porno dialogue. Think of the possibilities!

Joe: I'm here to fix your plumbing.
Sara: You betcha!
Joe: Let me whip out my tool.
Sara: Bless your heart! I can blow out your pipe.
Joe: Do have a license for that?
Sara: (mumble mumble munble)
Joe: Say. It's really wet down there.
Sara: Doggoneit, Joe. Stick your hose in my vent.

 

[Darwin333]

Originally posted by: Xavier434

Originally posted by: Darwin333
Shrug, the media sure has dug up a ton of dirt on this guy in a very short amount of time.

Maybe that wouldn't have been the case if McCain didn't elect to use him as his centerfold during his final debate. Maybe McCain should have done the digging himself first and weigh the possibilities before taking the plunge. Isn't that part of running an intelligent and well thought out campaign?

You can't blame the media for dumping tons of info on us. You can blame them for the spins and half truths but not the information itself unless it is proven to be inaccurate.

Yeah... but Obama said spread the wealth giving McCain reason to bring it up so its really Obama's fault.... Wait, I heard his wife was the one who wanted to move into that neighborhood. If they didn't live there none of this would have happened so its her fault!!

I don't give a damn about WHO thrust him into the limelight or even that the guy decided to soak it up for a minute. Fact of the matter is, they put this poor bastard through a freaking ringer for no good reason. Its just downright wrong what they did to him. I hope that he makes some money off of this (I think I read something about a book deal) because he sure as hell didn't deserve what he got.

 

[Descartes]

Originally posted by: Darwin333

Originally posted by: Xavier434

Originally posted by: Darwin333
Shrug, the media sure has dug up a ton of dirt on this guy in a very short amount of time.

Maybe that wouldn't have been the case if McCain didn't elect to use him as his centerfold during his final debate. Maybe McCain should have done the digging himself first and weigh the possibilities before taking the plunge. Isn't that part of running an intelligent and well thought out campaign?

You can't blame the media for dumping tons of info on us. You can blame them for the spins and half truths but not the information itself unless it is proven to be inaccurate.

Yeah... but Obama said spread the wealth giving McCain reason to bring it up so its really Obama's fault.... Wait, I heard his wife was the one who wanted to move into that neighborhood. If they didn't live there none of this would have happened so its her fault!!

I don't give a damn about WHO thrust him into the limelight or even that the guy decided to soak it up for a minute. Fact of the matter is, they put this poor bastard through a freaking ringer for no good reason. Its just downright wrong what they did to him. I hope that he makes some money off of this (I think I read something about a book deal) because he sure as hell didn't deserve what he got.

Well, as long as we're being stupid, it's really Joe's fault for bringing up the question in the first place.

Really, this blame game as ridiculous as is the circumstance. Obama's response to the question was genuine. Joe's question, while somewhat dishonest, was genuine. McCain's decision to lower the discourse between these two men to a mere pawn push in a political chess match shows the true character deficit here.

And I'll say the same about Obama. His "I have a bracelet" too was very much the same. Politicians play games, but let the responsibility lie with the person that decides to make it political.

 

[GodlessAstronomer]

Does anyone else find this episode entirely ridiculous?

No more or less ridiculous than the rest of the dog & pony show that passes for an election campaign in USA.

 

[ModerateRepZero]

I don't give a damn about WHO thrust him into the limelight or even that the guy decided to soak it up for a minute. Fact of the matter is, they put this poor bastard through a freaking ringer for no good reason. Its just downright wrong what they did to him. I hope that he makes some money off of this (I think I read something about a book deal) because he sure as hell didn't deserve what he got.

While it would have been hard to predict that Joe's question would make him a poster child in the McCain's campaign, and thus open him up into scrutiny, he should have thought better than to make a loaded statement (you ARE going to raise my taxes!) and base it on information that's easily checkable.

Bitek's post pointed out how unlikely it was that Joe was serious, given the financial factors involved. Couple that with the finding that Joe wasn't a licensed plumber, and there's reasonable doubt on how serious Joe was about buying a business.

 

[shadow9d9]

Originally posted by: nixium
Should we require everyone to listen to classical music before election cycles so that we can, temporarily at least, upgrade our IQs?

Sorry, but that is just a myth. The "studies" were extremely poor and skewed. It has been thoroughly debunked.

 

[shadow9d9]

Originally posted by: Corbett

Originally posted by: umbrella39
Fuck him and his fake scenarios. He isn't buying jack or shit. So why lie about something he has no plans for or ability to carry out.

Proof? Doubt it.

In any case, hypothetical or not, the reason "Joe the Plumber" is such a big topic now is because it shows the fundamental differences between Obama and McCain.

Except it isn't a big topic... it is a joke..