Jewish court wants death by stoning...

[paulney]

Why would a newspaper want to rag on a certain group of jews?

Because orthodox Jews in secular Israel are viewed as leeches on the society: they do not work, they do not serve in the army, they receive full benefits from the state, they get a ton of subsidies, free education, and they breed like rabbits.

Unfortunately, the secularization of Israel is diminishing in recent years, as the religious groups are gaining prominence, especially in Jerusalem. There is in fact, a 'white flight' effect in J. with secular Jews moving out to better cities.

 

[paulney]

I do not want to be drawn into a religious discussion here, but you are very misinformed.
Judaism believes in an afterlife. There are many expressions throughout the Torah which allude to it, although indirectly. The reason for not cremating has absolutely nothing to do with Messiah. Etc. etc.

I did not say there's no afterlife - I said there's no hell. Jews are stuck in limbo until Messiah comes. If that's not correct - I beg your pardon.

 

[ThePresence]

Because orthodox Jews in secular Israel are viewed as leeches on the society: they do not work, they do not serve in the army, they receive full benefits from the state, they get a ton of subsidies, free education, and they breed like rabbits.

You overgeneralize a lot. I'm orthodox and served in the military. So is much of the military.

 

[ThePresence]

I did not say there's no afterlife - I said there's no hell. Jews are stuck in limbo until Messiah comes. If that's not correct - I beg your pardon.

Well, we don't understand hell in the same way Christians understand it. There is a judgement in the afterlife regardless of if Messiah came or didn't.

 

[Texashiker]

Because orthodox Jews in secular Israel are viewed as leeches on the society: they do not work, they do not serve in the army, they receive full benefits from the state, they get a ton of subsidies, free education, and they breed like rabbits.

Speaking in generalization here, because I do not want to group people together based on their race, sex, religion,,,,,,.

In general, if certain people in the orthodox Jewish community do not work, how do they live?

Here in the USA we have our welfare families, where generation after generation of people are on welfare. But welfare does not pay for everything.

 

[zinfamous]

seriously, what is the theological reason for an "unclean animal?"

did a pig suck off Abraham or something, and God blames this on the pig?

I don't get it.

 

[Freshgeardude]

it was a mistake by the news company

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-13838347
update to original article

Jerusalem court denies dog condemned to stoning

 

[guyver01]

seriously, what is the theological reason for an "unclean animal?"

Some scholars, especially non-religious ones, have conjectured that the Jewish concept of "unclean animals" arose out of public health concerns by community leaders, since, in the conditions of the times, some of those animals are indeed more likely to cause food poisoning or transmit diseases to people who consume them.

 

[paulney]

Speaking in generalization here, because I do not want to group people together based on their race, sex, religion,,,,,,.

In general, if certain people in the orthodox Jewish community do not work, how do they live?

Here in the USA we have our welfare families, where generation after generation of people are on welfare. But welfare does not pay for everything.

ThePresence will correct me, but AFAIK, typically male orthodox Jews do not work at all - their work is the study of Torah, Talmud, etc. Women do work outside the home, and bring in money into the family. Quite a few of them work in high-tech sector and bring decent wage. Orthodox Jews do not need much in terms of material goods, so it's all good money.

On top of that they receive subsidized apartments, and state pays them for each child (a great incentive to produce more children aside from absence of birth control).

 

[0roo0roo]

seriously, what is the theological reason for an "unclean animal?"

did a pig suck off Abraham or something, and God blames this on the pig?

I don't get it.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YSKmCFP7d-A&feature=player_embedded

 

[Texashiker]

ThePresence will correct me, but AFAIK, typically male orthodox Jews do not work at all - their work is the study of Torah, Talmud, etc.

We usually call that type of person a priest or preacher. Their church donations usually supports the priest or preacher, and not government funds.

I do not understand why society supports people who refuse to work. The man that does not work shall not eat.

 

[zinfamous]

Some scholars, especially non-religious ones, have conjectured that the Jewish concept of "unclean animals" arose out of public health concerns by community leaders, since, in the conditions of the times, some of those animals are indeed more likely to cause food poisoning or transmit diseases to people who consume them.

Oh, I know that is the generally accepted social reason why this was done.

I just want to know what the theological justification was for this. You know, the explanation given to the illiterate serfs to accept the rule under the fear of smiting. How does God (or Abraham or Moses) define an animal as unclean, and what is the spiritual explanation for why a pig or a lobster are unclean.

It seems to me that it is maintained only because of traditional practices for the orthodox, as I know plenty of Jews that don't subscribe to that BS. Well, except on Saturdays or Fridays or whatever reason they give.

...which is fine. But I think that today justifying based on spirituality is absurd, when most historians and theologians will attest that the real reason is public safety.

 

[SandEagle]

You overgeneralize a lot. I'm orthodox and served in the military. So is much of the military.

i'm a little unorthodox and build planes for the Navy.

can't believe anything on a forum

 

[Skyclad1uhm1]

it was a mistake by the news company

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-13838347
update to original article

Good to hear. Will update the OP.

 

[0roo0roo]

lol oops

 

[Regs]

This idea could get a little rocky.

 

[Raizinman]

Having been a Judge on a Jewish Court for many years, you have to deal with the events of the day using ONLY the legal books of the Torah and Talmud. No different when you are arrested for a crime and are brought before a Municipal Judge, you are held to the legal books of the locality, city, state, and federal. Keep in mind that Jewish Court (Beit Din) is normally optional but you can be subpoenaed to come to Jewish Court. Even though someone found an update to this story, it's still very likely that the original article was correct. Orthodox Jews are very conscious of the peculiarities of their rules and laws and do not want non-Jews judging them on it. If non-Jews became aware of all the hatred, prejudice, bias and bigotry that is in our Torah and Talmud, we would be as hated more than Moslems are today. Much easier to deny the news report and very shortly everything will have been forgotten.

 

[ThePresence]

Having been a Judge on a Jewish Court for many years, you have to deal with the events of the day using ONLY the legal books of the Torah and Talmud. No different when you are arrested for a crime and are brought before a Municipal Judge, you are held to the legal books of the locality, city, state, and federal. Keep in mind that Jewish Court (Beit Din) is normally optional but you can be subpoenaed to come to Jewish Court. Even though someone found an update to this story, it's still very likely that the original article was correct. Orthodox Jews are very conscious of the peculiarities of their rules and laws and do not want non-Jews judging them on it. If non-Jews became aware of all the hatred, prejudice, bias and bigotry that is in our Torah and Talmud, we would be as hated more than Moslems are today. Much easier to deny the news report and very shortly everything will have been forgotten.

I'm very curious which beis din you've served on. Reform?

 

[Texashiker]

If non-Jews became aware of all the hatred, prejudice, bias and bigotry that is in our Torah and Talmud, we would be as hated more than Moslems are today.

Awhile back David Duke posted a video about how Jews* want racial / religious divisions between Jews and non-jews.

But for some reason people call David Duke names for talking about the same thing.

When a Jew* says something, most of the time its overlooked or not talked about.

When a non-Jew says something, their labeled and ridiculed.

~~EDIT~~

* Speaking in generalization here because everyone from a group should not be labeled due to the actions of a few.

 

[Raizinman]

I'm very curious which beis din you've served on. Reform?

Reform Jews do not have their own Beit Dins as they would not be recongnized by the rest of the world. The only Beit Dins that I'm familiar with are only Orthodox.

 

[ThePresence]

Reform Jews do not have their own Beit Dins as they would not be recongnized by the rest of the world. The only Beit Dins that I'm familiar with are only Orthodox.

Sure they do, but since they don't recognize the divinity of the Torah and pick and choose which laws they want to follow, it's really meaningless. There are conservative batei din as well. Regardless, your POV certainly does not seem to be Orthodox. Can I ask if you were ordained as a rabbi? Where did you study to become a dayan? Did you receive semicha? If so, from who? You obviously don't have to answer any of my questions, but you claimed do be a dayan for many years, so I can't see why you would not.

 

[Raizinman]

Sure they do, but since they don't recognize the divinity of the Torah and pick and choose which laws they want to follow, it's really meaningless. There are conservative batei din as well. Regardless, your POV certainly does not seem to be Orthodox. Can I ask if you were ordained as a rabbi? Where did you study to become a dayan? Did you receive semicha? If so, from who? You obviously don't have to answer any of my questions, but you claimed do be a dayan for many years, so I can't see why you would not.

Best to ask your questions to your Reform Beit Din.

 

[ThePresence]

Best to ask your questions to your Reform Beit Din.

Oh, I doubt they'd know where you studied and received semicha to be a dayan.

 

[zinfamous]

Awhile back David Duke posted a video about how Jews* want racial / religious divisions between Jews and non-jews.

But for some reason people call David Duke names for talking about the same thing.

When a Jew* says something, most of the time its overlooked or not talked about.

When a non-Jew says something, their labeled and ridiculed.

~~EDIT~~

* Speaking in generalization here because everyone from a group should not be labeled due to the actions of a few.

call me crazy, but I think people criticize David Duke bc he is a KKK grand wizard.

Such a hatred-filled, irrational individual is not to be taken with much respect. His opinions are essentially void.