Jewish court wants death by stoning...

[paulney]

Perhaps, but from what I've read, it seems that they would certainly prefer that all of Israel adopt their version of Shariya and live and worship like they do, as it is the only acceptable way.

I honestly don't see how their desire to force upon others their version of their religion and forming a theocratic state is any different from the goal of the jihadis.

I haven't seen them use bombs, but I have seen video of them chasing random people through the streets and hurling stones at them b/c they were "improperly dressed."

Yep. My wife and I accidentally wandered into an ultra-orthodox quarters in Jerusalem on Purim night (took a wrong turn). We got outta there FAST.

From my personal experiences in Jerusalem (and I've been 3 times), the Arab population and their quarters are far more clean and open to tourists than the Jewish orthodox quarters.

 

[paulney]

If I fried the catfish in bacon grease, would I go to hell then?

So the physical cleaniness of an animal has nothing to do with it? Just the spiritual cleanliness?

How do you know if something is spiritually unclean?

The Torah sets the rules. The problem is, Torah was a collection of oral rules and beliefs written only in the imminent danger of losing the oral narrative under the persecution of Jewish tribes in the ancient history.

So, about only half of what was out there was written (or the bare minimum) since Torah rules were never supposed to be written down, and carried over only in the oral form.

The oral form which completes the Torah is Talmud - the interpretation of the scant and cryptic Torah statements. True to its original form, the Talmud is to be studied and then still interpreted in all sorts of questions such as yours.

It's all a bunch of archaic knowledge that has to be adapted to the modern world - like fitting a square into a round hole.

 

[Miramonti]

Orthodox is unorthodox.

 

[zinfamous]

If I fried the catfish in bacon grease, would I go to hell then?

So the physical cleaniness of an animal has nothing to do with it? Just the spiritual cleanliness?

How do you know if something is spiritually unclean?

well, that's the thing...it's only "spiritually unclean" because it was physically unclean. Making it a decree by god, with some nebulous mumbo jumbo, is the only way to get the illiterate peasants of 5,000 years ago to not kill themselves with infected meat.

Pork is now one of the cleanest, least dangerous meat animals that you can get. Certainly far less dangerous than chicken.

I know plenty of Jewish people that will eat the hell out of some pork, though. ...certainly not orthodox, hehe.

 

[ThePresence]

well, that's the thing...it's only "spiritually unclean" because it was physically unclean.

You decided the reason, and then have a question based on your reasoning.

 

[ThePresence]

Yep. My wife and I accidentally wandered into an ultra-orthodox quarters in Jerusalem on Purim night (took a wrong turn). We got outta there FAST.

From my personal experiences in Jerusalem (and I've been 3 times), the Arab population and their quarters are far more clean and open to tourists than the Jewish orthodox quarters.

I lived in Jerusalem for a few years. I know the neighborhoods well. You are speaking about one specific neighborhood, Me'ah She'arim. IMO, those people are misinformed about their religion. And I know them, I've been in their homes. They give all of Judaism a bad name. This would not happen in Sanhedria, etc.

 

[paulney]

I lived in Jerusalem for a few years. I know the neighborhoods well. You are speaking about one specific neighborhood, Me'ah She'arim. IMO, those people are misinformed about their religion. And I know them, I've been in their homes. They give all of Judaism a bad name. This would not happen in Sanhedria, etc.

Perhaps. This was not far from the Grand Court hotel. If you take Saint George, cross the lightrail tracks and keep going - you'll end up somewhere there. I don't remember how we ended up there - we were aiming for Ben Yehuda general direction. That shit was scary.

 

[zinfamous]

You decided the reason, and then have a question based on your reasoning.

perhaps.

but what is "spiritually unclean?"

How is a pig unclean compared to a goat, or a lamb?
What is the theological justification that prevents your people from eating pig--the most glorious of animals?

I find it to be a crime against humanity.

 

[Texashiker]

The Torah sets the rules. The problem is, Torah was a collection of oral rules and beliefs written only in the imminent danger of losing the oral narrative under the persecution of Jewish tribes in the ancient history..

Because someone 2,000 years ago said dogs were unclean, people today are going to stone a dog to death?

That is pretty messed up.

What is wrong with people that they blindly follow anything? Whether its jews, christians, muslims,,,,,, there comes a point where people have to stand up and say "this is wrong".

 

[ThePresence]

Because someone 2,000 years ago said dogs were unclean, people today are going to stone a dog to death?

That is pretty messed up.

What is wrong with people that they blindly follow anything? Whether its jews, christians, muslims,,,,,, there comes a point where people have to stand up and say "this is wrong".

Nobody is stoning anything. Maariv will stop at nothing to make the Orthodox look bad. BBC bought it all. It's a complete fabrication.

 

[ThePresence]

perhaps.

but what is "spiritually unclean?"

How is a pig unclean compared to a goat, or a lamb?
What is the theological justification that prevents your people from eating pig--the most glorious of animals?

I find it to be a crime against humanity.

This is me not taking the bait.

Seriously, there is so much to understand before "why can't I do this" that really makes this question impossible to answer.

Crap, I took the bait.

 

[Texashiker]

Nobody is stoning anything. Maariv will stop at nothing to make the Orthodox look bad. BBC bought it all. It's a complete fabrication.

So if I cook dog meat in bacon grease, and eat it, I will definitely go to hell?

Is this Maariv VS Orthodox thing something like Protestant VS Catholics?

 

[ThePresence]

Perhaps. This was not far from the Grand Court hotel. If you take Saint George, cross the lightrail tracks and keep going - you'll end up somewhere there. I don't remember how we ended up there - we were aiming for Ben Yehuda general direction. That shit was scary.

Saint George is the same street as Shivtei Yisrael street which goes right into Me'ah She'arim. It's the same place I was talking about.

 

[ThePresence]

So if I cook dog meat in bacon grease, and eat it, I will definitely go to hell?

Is this Maariv VS Orthodox thing something like Protestant VS Catholics?

LOL. Maariv is a newspaper, one of Israel's largest.
You can cook dog meat and eat it however you want. I can't.

 

[JEDIYoda]

I lived in Jerusalem for a few years. I know the neighborhoods well. You are speaking about one specific neighborhood, Me'ah She'arim. IMO, those people are misinformed about their religion. And I know them, I've been in their homes. They give all of Judaism a bad name. This would not happen in Sanhedria, etc.

exactly!!! My son has friends in Jerusalem. He tells me that most people leave them alone. To believe as they choose.

Me'ah She'arim translated loosesly mean a hundred fold or a hundred gates.

Shalom

 

[Texashiker]

LOL. Maariv is a newspaper, one of Israel's largest.

Why would a newspaper want to rag on a certain group of jews?

 

[ThePresence]

Why would a newspaper want to rag on a certain group of jews?

Because there is tension between the secular and the orthodox in Israel. It's complicated.

 

[Texashiker]

Because there is tension between the secular and the orthodox in Israel.

Kinda like Protestant VS Catholic?

It's complicated.

You want complicated, go to a Pentecostal church sometime. Those people start talking in tongues and having seizures.

 

[ThePresence]

Kinda like Protestant VS Catholic?

Very different.

You want complicated, go to a Pentecostal church sometime. Those people start talking in tongues and having seizures.

I don't want complicated.

 

[Texashiker]

Very different.

How much different can it be from Catholics saying everyone that is not catholic is going to hell, the same thing with the Pentecostal, Baptist seem to be tolerant, First Assembly of GOD saying they are the one true religion,,,,,,.

It seems to boil down to there is a book, and different groups view the book differently.

 

[paulney]

So if I cook dog meat in bacon grease, and eat it, I will definitely go to hell?

You won't go to hell, because there isn't one in Judaism. Judaism is based on the Old Testament (which is what Torah is, albeit with a slightly different numbering of chapters). Hell did not come into play until the New Testament.

 

[Texashiker]

You won't go to hell, because there isn't one in Judaism. Judaism is based on the Old Testament (which is what Torah is, albeit with a slightly different numbering of chapters). Hell did not come into play until the New Testament.

So where do Jews go after they die?

I don't want complicated.

If I fried ham in bacon grease and ate it, then would I go where Jews go that is not hell?

 

[paulney]

How much different can it be from Catholics saying everyone that is not catholic is going to hell, the same thing with the Pentecostal, Baptist seem to be tolerant, First Assembly of GOD saying they are the one true religion,,,,,,.

It seems to boil down to there is a book, and different groups view the book differently.

Well, here's the thing. Judaism, Christianity and Islam are all branches of the same Abrahamic source. Since Christianity and Islam both derived from Judaism, they inherited much of the same core philosophy: that they are exclusive and chosen people.

 

[paulney]

So where do Jews go after they die?

Nowhere. The old testament naturally did not deal with the idea of resurrection very much. The Jews are buried and so they lie awaiting the Messiah, who will come down in Jerusalem on the Olive Mountain. So, the first ones to rise with him are the ones buried there (major $$$$ for a grave). That's why the bodies are buried without a coffin and no cremations. You have to be able to rise and walk to heaven with Messiah.

Correct me if I'm wrong - I haven't been reading much on this part.

 

[ThePresence]

Nowhere. The old testament naturally did not deal with the idea of resurrection very much. The Jews are buried and so they lie awaiting the Messiah, which will come down in Jerusalem on the Olive Mountain. So, the first ones to rise with him are the ones buried there (major $$$$ for a grave). That's why the bodies are buried without a coffin and no cremations. You have to be able to rise and walk to heaven with Messiah.

Correct me if I'm wrong - I haven't been reading much on this part.

I do not want to be drawn into a religious discussion here, but you are very misinformed.
Judaism believes in an afterlife. There are many expressions throughout the Torah which allude to it, although indirectly. The reason for not cremating has absolutely nothing to do with Messiah. Etc. etc.