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Jessica Lynch - should she be the 2nd woman to get the medal of honor?

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RossMAN

Grand Nagus
Feb 24, 2000
78,794
256
116
If what we've heard on the major news networks is true then hell yeah she deserves it.
 

UltraQuiet

Banned
Sep 22, 2001
5,755
0
0
Originally posted by: RgrPark
No way she should get it. If it was a special ops operator who got ambushed and got captured, no one would even think about giving him a MOH...the only reason some of you think she deserves it is because she's a young female supply clerk. Let's view the standards objectively...<STRONG>everything she did (fighting until she ran out of rounds) is what a soldier is SUPPOSED to do</STRONG>. I give her props for doing what a well trained soldier is supposed to do but that in no way deserves a MOH. <STRONG>She will get a POW medal, a purple heart and "maybe" something like a bronze star but i think that's even too much.
</STRONG>
Bottom line, she performed her duties as expected of a well trained soldier. <STRONG>She did not go "above and beyond the call of duty".</STRONG> Do you think she would volunteer to do something like Shugart and Gordon (they volunteered to give their lives to attempt to protect the downed pilot in Somalia and paid the ultimate price), i think not. MOH is the HIGHEST award given and should not be given out lightly. I am in no way putting down the Pfc. <STRONG>She performed exactly the way a soldier should have performed and i respect her for it, but we're talking about the MOH here.</STRONG>

I agree with you 100%. I think the enormity of the MOH is lost upon some people.
 

Armitage

Banned
Feb 23, 2001
8,086
0
0
At this point, I don't think we know enough to say. From what I've seen in Medal of Honor citations (had to memorize them for the alumni of the Virginia Tech Corp of Cadets that received it), she probably won't. She did what was expected of a soldier in combat, and apparently did it well. She should be decorated for it, certainly a bronze star, maybe silver.

To see what men have done in the service of the US, read some of the citations.

Army MOH History
USMC MOH Recipients

Of the millions who have served, and hundreds of thousands who have died in combat in the service of our country, the Medal Of Honor has only been awarded about 3400 times since its creation in 1863. And ussually posthumously.
 

tk149

Diamond Member
Apr 3, 2002
7,256
1
0
Originally posted by: ergeorge
At this point, I don't think we know enough to say. From what I've seen in Medal of Honor citations (had to memorize them for the alumni of the Virginia Tech Corp of Cadets that received it), she probably won't. She did what was expected of a soldier in combat, and apparently did it well. She should be decorated for it, certainly a bronze star, maybe silver.

To see what men have done in the service of the US, read some of the citations.

Army MOH History
USMC MOH Recipients

Of the millions who have served, and hundreds of thousands who have died in combat in the service of our country, the Medal Of Honor has only been awarded about 3400 times since its creation in 1863. And ussually posthumously.
Good link, thanks.

Does Lynch deserve the MOH? Compare what she's done to the very first MOH awardee I looked at on that list (from Somalia, Gary I. Gordon):

Master Sergeant Gordon's sniper team provided precision fires from the lead helicopter during an assault and at two helicopter crash sites, while subjected to intense automatic weapons and rocket propelled grenade fires. When Master Sergeant Gordon learned that ground forces were not immediately available to secure the second crash site, he and another sniper unhesitatingly volunteered to be inserted to protect the four critically wounded personnel, despite being well aware of the growing number of enemy personnel closing in on the site. After his third request to be inserted, Master Sergeant Gordon received permission to perform his volunteer mission.

When debris and enemy ground fires at the site caused them to abort the first attempt, Master Sergeant Gordon was inserted one hundred meters south of the crash site. Equipped with only his sniper rifle and a pistol, Master Sergeant Gordon and his fellow sniper, while under intense small arms fire from the enemy, fought their way through a dense maze of shanties and shacks to reach the critically injured crew members. Master Sergeant Gordon immediately pulled the pilot and the other crew members from the aircraft, establishing a perimeter which placed him and his fellow sniper in the most vulnerable position. Master Sergeant Gordon used his long range rifle and side arm to kill an undetermined number of attackers until he depleted his ammunition. Master Sergeant Gordon then went back to the wreckage, recovering some of the crew's weapons and ammunition. Despite the fact that he was critically low on ammunition, he provided some of it to the dazed pilot and then radioed for help. Master Sergeant Gordon continued to travel the perimeter, protecting the downed crew. After his team member was fatally wounded and his own rifle ammunition exhausted, Master Sergeant Gordon returned to the wreckage, recovering a rifle with the last five rounds of ammunition and gave it to the pilot with the words, "good luck." Then, armed only with his pistol, Master Sergeant Gordon continued to fight until he was fatally wounded. His actions saved the pilot's life. Master Sergeant Gordon's extraordinary heroism and devotion to duty were in keeping with the highest standards of military service and reflect great credit upon him, his unit and the United States Army.


:Q:Q:Q

From what I've read, Pfc Lynch, although undoubtedly brave and heroic, did not do anything nearly as "above and beyond" the call of duty as Gary I. Gordon. Therefore, unless further information is forthcoming, I do not believe that she belongs in the same class as Master Sergeant Gordon. To do so would be to cheapen the meaning of the nation's most prestigious medal.

She should get the Purple Heart, and lesser medals, but not the MOH.
 

Hoober

Diamond Member
Feb 9, 2001
4,345
9
81
Originally posted by: tk149
Originally posted by: ergeorge
At this point, I don't think we know enough to say. From what I've seen in Medal of Honor citations (had to memorize them for the alumni of the Virginia Tech Corp of Cadets that received it), she probably won't. She did what was expected of a soldier in combat, and apparently did it well. She should be decorated for it, certainly a bronze star, maybe silver.

To see what men have done in the service of the US, read some of the citations.

Army MOH History
USMC MOH Recipients

Of the millions who have served, and hundreds of thousands who have died in combat in the service of our country, the Medal Of Honor has only been awarded about 3400 times since its creation in 1863. And ussually posthumously.
Good link, thanks.

Does Lynch deserve the MOH? Compare what she's done to the very first MOH awardee I looked at on that list (from Somalia, Gary I. Gordon):

Master Sergeant Gordon's sniper team provided precision fires from the lead helicopter during an assault and at two helicopter crash sites, while subjected to intense automatic weapons and rocket propelled grenade fires. When Master Sergeant Gordon learned that ground forces were not immediately available to secure the second crash site, he and another sniper unhesitatingly volunteered to be inserted to protect the four critically wounded personnel, despite being well aware of the growing number of enemy personnel closing in on the site. After his third request to be inserted, Master Sergeant Gordon received permission to perform his volunteer mission.

When debris and enemy ground fires at the site caused them to abort the first attempt, Master Sergeant Gordon was inserted one hundred meters south of the crash site. Equipped with only his sniper rifle and a pistol, Master Sergeant Gordon and his fellow sniper, while under intense small arms fire from the enemy, fought their way through a dense maze of shanties and shacks to reach the critically injured crew members. Master Sergeant Gordon immediately pulled the pilot and the other crew members from the aircraft, establishing a perimeter which placed him and his fellow sniper in the most vulnerable position. Master Sergeant Gordon used his long range rifle and side arm to kill an undetermined number of attackers until he depleted his ammunition. Master Sergeant Gordon then went back to the wreckage, recovering some of the crew's weapons and ammunition. Despite the fact that he was critically low on ammunition, he provided some of it to the dazed pilot and then radioed for help. Master Sergeant Gordon continued to travel the perimeter, protecting the downed crew. After his team member was fatally wounded and his own rifle ammunition exhausted, Master Sergeant Gordon returned to the wreckage, recovering a rifle with the last five rounds of ammunition and gave it to the pilot with the words, "good luck." Then, armed only with his pistol, Master Sergeant Gordon continued to fight until he was fatally wounded. His actions saved the pilot's life. Master Sergeant Gordon's extraordinary heroism and devotion to duty were in keeping with the highest standards of military service and reflect great credit upon him, his unit and the United States Army.


:Q:Q:Q

From what I've read, Pfc Lynch, although undoubtedly brave and heroic, did not do anything nearly as "above and beyond" the call of duty as Gary I. Gordon. Therefore, unless further information is forthcoming, I do not believe that she belongs in the same class as Master Sergeant Gordon. To do so would be to cheapen the meaning of the nation's most prestigious medal.

She should get the Purple Heart, and lesser medals, but not the MOH.
Agreed.
 

Armitage

Banned
Feb 23, 2001
8,086
0
0
Originally posted by: ergeorge
At this point, I don't think we know enough to say. From what I've seen in Medal of Honor citations (had to memorize them for the alumni of the Virginia Tech Corp of Cadets that received it), she probably won't. She did what was expected of a soldier in combat, and apparently did it well. She should be decorated for it, certainly a bronze star, maybe silver.

To see what men have done in the service of the US, read some of the citations.

Army MOH History
USMC MOH Recipients

Of the millions who have served, and hundreds of thousands who have died in combat in the service of our country, the Medal Of Honor has only been awarded about 3400 times since its creation in 1863. And ussually posthumously.
edit: Just found the stats page for the first link ... actually it has only been awarded posthumous 574 out of 3427 times. I had always thought > half were posthumous.
 

GTaudiophile

Lifer
Oct 24, 2000
29,773
11
81
Medal of Honor? Don't think so. They were ambushed after getting lost. Doesn't sound like Medal-of-Honor material to me. Yes, she fought to the end after being ambushed, but I wouldn't call that going "above and beyond the call of duty."
 

Zugzwang152

Lifer
Oct 30, 2001
12,134
1
0
she definitely deserves some sort of award, however (and please do not take this in the wrong way) i don't think she is worthy of the Medal of Honor. Certainly, her actions, if confirmed are worthy and show that she indeed has more balls than 20 of me, but I also think that there may be a bit of embellishment coming from the higher ups, an effort to politicize this heroine, and make the public rally around not only her, but the whole war effort in general. This is not at all meant to take away from what she did, which I find amazing for an Army supply clerk, or any soldier for that matter. however, i believe its every citizen's duty to remind each other of just what the medal of honor means, and to keep the integrity of the award intact. i'm certain any award this woman (girl?) receives will just bring up the bar one notch higher.
 

Brutuskend

Lifer
Apr 2, 2001
26,558
2
0
Maybe not, but what WAS her duty?
She was a supply clerk.

One of the first MOH presented in WWII was to a cook who manned a AA gun at Pearl.
 

Vic

Elite Member
Jun 12, 2001
48,193
8,782
126
No. The Medal of Honor is usually given to people who bravely sacrificed their own lives for the lives of others. That doesn't seem to be the case here.
 

Zugzwang152

Lifer
Oct 30, 2001
12,134
1
0
Originally posted by: Vic
No. The Medal of Honor is usually given to people who bravely sacrificed their own lives for the lives of others. That doesn't seem to be the case here.
the argument is that she reportedly fought as if she was sacrificing her life, the intent to do so is good enough for me to believe it under those circumstance, but i still dont think she should get it (see above post).
 

Balthazar

Golden Member
Apr 16, 2000
1,834
0
0
Originally posted by: RgrPark
Originally posted by: Hammer
Originally posted by: StormRider She's cute -- so I vote yes.
lol, it always comes back to that after all. ;) but seriously, if it can be verified, then yeah i think she should. definitely went above and beyond what would be expected from a female supply clerk.
Why would you differentiate between a female supply clerk and a male grunt when awarding MOH? Both of them are soldiers.
Oh God....

Because look at the ratio of Men to Women in the US Army, I think any female member of the army is already a step above her peers (at least the female ones) because they have the courage to be there, and the courage to put themselves in harms way for what they believe in.

i mean ladies don't get me wrong but the vast majority of you get scared watching a scary movie. This girl, yeah, thats right, 19 year old girl, got SHOT multiple times, and kept on going. Thats tough no matter who you are, but considering what "scares" most girls, I'd say this ones got some big brass balls....or well, something....

However, I think she falls just short of CMoH, exemplary service, no doubt, true bravery, courage, and determination. Hell yes.

But according to the outlined requirements for that medal, I don't believe she QUITE makes it (and only by a small margin).
 

Zugzwang152

Lifer
Oct 30, 2001
12,134
1
0
INOUYE, DANIEL K.




Second Lieutenant Daniel K. Inouye distinguished himself by extraordinary heroism in action on 21 April 1945, in the vicinity of San Terenzo, Italy. While attacking a defended ridge guarding an important road junction, Second Lieutenant Inouye skillfully directed his platoon through a hail of automatic weapon and small arms fire, in a swift enveloping movement that resulted in the capture of an artillery and mortar post and brought his men to within 40 yards of the hostile force. Emplaced in bunkers and rock formations, the enemy halted the advance with crossfire from three machine guns. With complete disregard for his personal safety, Second Lieutenant Inouye crawled up the treacherous slope to within five yards of the nearest machine gun and hurled two grenades, destroying the emplacement. Before the enemy could retaliate, he stood up and neutralized a second machine gun nest. Although wounded by a sniper?s bullet, he continued to engage other hostile positions at close range until an exploding grenade shattered his right arm. Despite the intense pain, he refused evacuation and continued to direct his platoon until enemy resistance was broken and his men were again deployed in defensive positions. In the attack, 25 enemy soldiers were killed and eight others captured. By his gallant, aggressive tactics and by his indomitable leadership, Second Lieutenant Inouye enabled his platoon to advance through formidable resistance, and was instrumental in the capture of the ridge. Second Lieutenant Inouye?s extraordinary heroism and devotion to duty are in keeping with the highest traditions of military service and reflect great credit on him, his unit, and the United States Army.
one of the US Senators from my state (Hawaii) :)
 

Pepsei

Lifer
Dec 14, 2001
12,895
1
0
She should get a purple heart for injuries suffered, and one of the other medals like bronze or silver star.
 

Winchester

Diamond Member
Jan 21, 2003
4,965
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1.) You have to remember, this is what the "POST" is reporting. They are trying to sell papers. Lynch being a woman who fights etc, would put any newspaper publisher in Heaven. This report has not been backed up yet.

2.) To get the MOH the "courageous deed" would have to have been witnessed by an Officer. I remember a story from WWII, that a group of enlisted guys (maybe 4-6) held off a whole hell load of germans, protecting a bridge. However, there XO was killed by the Germans and there was no way to prove that they had acted courageously. Then after the war the GERMAN XO who was at the bridge heard of what was going on and recommended they get the MOH, because of the fight that they put up. They ended up getting it, but they had to have an officer witness it.

3.) She is a soldier and did her duty. I do believe that she deserves lots of credit (attention and medals) for being a woman and what she did. Maybe this will open up doors for women in the future to take infantry positions in the military. If the story is true then I think that she might be considered for it, but not likely. I applaud her in everyway.


Anyway, it is good to see that she will be ok. I just hope the rest can come home just as safely.
 

wnied

Diamond Member
Oct 10, 1999
4,205
0
76
No.

A medal for bravery under fire maybe, but she rescued no one, and only did her duty as a soldier. Though its extremely admirable, its not material for the CMH.

~wnied~
 

KC5AV

Golden Member
Jul 26, 2002
1,721
0
0
Originally posted by: GTaudiophile
Medal of Honor? Don't think so. They were ambushed after getting lost. Doesn't sound like Medal-of-Honor material to me. Yes, she fought to the end after being ambushed, but I wouldn't call that going "above and beyond the call of duty."
I think the part about getting lost is only relevant if it was her fault they got lost.
 

RbSX

Diamond Member
Jan 18, 2002
8,351
1
76
Why should she get a medal of honor? For christs sake its not like she survived world war 2 or something. Think about it, if it were a man, would he get a medal of honor? I don't think so.

Women have fought for equality but I don't think because this person is a woman that they deserve the medal of honor anymore than anyone else.
 

KC5AV

Golden Member
Jul 26, 2002
1,721
0
0
Originally posted by: Zugzwang152
INOUYE, DANIEL K.




Second Lieutenant Daniel K. Inouye distinguished himself by extraordinary heroism in action on 21 April 1945, in the vicinity of San Terenzo, Italy. While attacking a defended ridge guarding an important road junction, Second Lieutenant Inouye skillfully directed his platoon through a hail of automatic weapon and small arms fire, in a swift enveloping movement that resulted in the capture of an artillery and mortar post and brought his men to within 40 yards of the hostile force. Emplaced in bunkers and rock formations, the enemy halted the advance with crossfire from three machine guns. With complete disregard for his personal safety, Second Lieutenant Inouye crawled up the treacherous slope to within five yards of the nearest machine gun and hurled two grenades, destroying the emplacement. Before the enemy could retaliate, he stood up and neutralized a second machine gun nest. Although wounded by a sniper?s bullet, he continued to engage other hostile positions at close range until an exploding grenade shattered his right arm. Despite the intense pain, he refused evacuation and continued to direct his platoon until enemy resistance was broken and his men were again deployed in defensive positions. In the attack, 25 enemy soldiers were killed and eight others captured. By his gallant, aggressive tactics and by his indomitable leadership, Second Lieutenant Inouye enabled his platoon to advance through formidable resistance, and was instrumental in the capture of the ridge. Second Lieutenant Inouye?s extraordinary heroism and devotion to duty are in keeping with the highest traditions of military service and reflect great credit on him, his unit, and the United States Army.
one of the US Senators from my state (Hawaii) :)
Didn't he lose his arm as a result of that??
 

bbkat

Senior member
Mar 7, 2001
825
0
0
Originally posted by: FoBoT
this is all very premature
I agree. Until they get corroborating evidence, I'll reserve judgement. I also heard there was no commando mission to go in and save her. It was by accident. There's so many members of the media out there and each one is trying to break a story that I can't take any reports as factual --- but that's for another thread.

I believe she'll get it because it's the thing to do in this PC era. And the government needs a heroine story in this war.
 

NorthRiver

Golden Member
May 6, 2002
1,457
0
0
She does not deserve the MOH. She did her job, and what she was trained to do. She did not go above, and beyond the call of duty. Now if she shot Saddam, and ended the war, yes, but she did not do anything that incredible. She got lucky, period!
 

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