Jennifer Lawrence: Unbreaking America's Political System Failure

[fskimospy]

-Agree with what you wrote in terms of Garland and rule changes, but adding judges to the court as a solution to anything is a non-starter. A 6/5 split is no different than a 5/4 split. Does the packing go on and we're at a 51/50 split, 101/100 split, etc.?

It's not a solution to a problem, it's the start of a brand new problem.

The point would be to use that as a bargaining chip to bring republicans to the table. As it stands they have the best of both worlds - they pack the court when they have power and they obstruct when Democrats have power because Democrats respect norms and republicans don’t. If Democrats similarly violate norms then maybe Republicans learn their actions have a price and they will negotiate about a deal that stops this insanity forever.

 

[dud]

The last place we should be getting advice is from Hollywood. These are actors. They ACT for a living, typically are out-of-touch with reality, and tend to be liberals.


We need a common-sense centrist approach: This is NOT Burger King. We CANNOT have it our way. We have to compromise.

 

[dank69]

The last place we should be getting advice is from Hollywood. These are actors. They ACT for a living, typically are out-of-touch with reality, and tend to be liberals.


We need a common-sense centrist approach: This is NOT Burger King. We CANNOT have it our way. We have to compromise.

The middle point between Democrats and Republicans is still way too far right.

 

[fskimospy]

The last place we should be getting advice is from Hollywood. These are actors. They ACT for a living, typically are out-of-touch with reality, and tend to be liberals.


We need a common-sense centrist approach: This is NOT Burger King. We CANNOT have it our way. We have to compromise.

What does that compromise look like to you?

 

[brycejones]

We need a common-sense centrist approach:

What are common-sense centrist positions for:

tax policy?
domestic spending?
health care?
unionization?
defense spending?
environmental issues?
energy policy?

Just saying common-sense centrist is useless.

 

[Jhhnn]

The last place we should be getting advice is from Hollywood. These are actors. They ACT for a living, typically are out-of-touch with reality, and tend to be liberals.


We need a common-sense centrist approach: This is NOT Burger King. We CANNOT have it our way. We have to compromise.

Tell it to the GOP, the party of greed & corruption.

 

[GodisanAtheist]

The point would be to use that as a bargaining chip to bring republicans to the table. As it stands they have the best of both worlds - they pack the court when they have power and they obstruct when Democrats have power because Democrats respect norms and republicans don’t. If Democrats similarly violate norms then maybe Republicans learn their actions have a price and they will negotiate about a deal that stops this insanity forever.

-No, Pubs and their voters won't learn anything, but it will give them semi-legitimate ammunition when they fire up the "Liberals-are-the-real-enemy" machine. There is no way going nuclear on the third branch wins Dems any favors among anything but the most left wing types in the party.

The solution here is the ground game in local elections. Pubs can only pull this crap because they've captured so many local state houses and governorships, which gives them enormous districting power, which makes it hard to control the branch that really matters: the legislature.

I'm heartened to see younger people really start to wake up to the problems facing them, but like anything worth doing, getting people to show up and vote in all elections consistently is going to be tough and time consuming.

 

[fskimospy]

-No, Pubs and their voters won't learn anything, but it will give them semi-legitimate ammunition when they fire up the "Liberals-are-the-real-enemy" machine. There is no way going nuclear on the third branch wins Dems any favors among anything but the most left wing types in the party.

The solution here is the ground game in local elections. Pubs can only pull this crap because they've captured so many local state houses and governorships, which gives them enormous districting power, which makes it hard to control the branch that really matters: the legislature.

I'm heartened to see younger people really start to wake up to the problems facing them, but like anything worth doing, getting people to show up and vote in all elections consistently is going to be tough and time consuming.

State and local governments can do nothing to prevent republicans from packing the courts.

They have found that abusing their power to pack the courts has no consequences; independent voters don’t care enough and their voters actively approve. They will continue to do it until the costs exceed the advantages.

You can choose to not play their game of course but they will simply thank you for your naivety and keep doing it.

 

[SMOGZINN]

-Agree with what you wrote in terms of Garland and rule changes, but adding judges to the court as a solution to anything is a non-starter. A 6/5 split is no different than a 5/4 split. Does the packing go on and we're at a 51/50 split, 101/100 split, etc.?

It's not a solution to a problem, it's the start of a brand new problem.

Yes it is a brand new problem, but it is one that maybe we can all see and discuss rationally. Right now the problem is that people don't care, so the Republicans can abuse the system with no consequences. So, lets make people care. Break the court altogether. Add 10,000 seats to the SCOTUS and paralyze it all together.

I'm done playing nice. It is time that the Democrats decide that if it is going to be broken and people want to burn it down, we will burn it down right. Every time the Republicans pull some crap like this we need to push it right past ludicrous and into plaid.

 

[s0me0nesmind1]

Adding seats sounds like a pretty good idea to me. You are concerned about this causing Republicans to retaliate but what it actually is is Democrats retaliating.

Bump.

I didn't know this until now - but it is actually a US Law that the court is nine justices with one as chief. So unless they can pass a law that changes that in 2020 (highly unlikely unless they have a majority in all houses) it simply isn't possible.

https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/28/1

 

[fskimospy]

Bump.

I didn't know this until now - but it is actually a US Law that the court is nine justices with one as chief. So unless they can pass a law that changes that in 2020 (highly unlikely unless they have a majority in all houses) it simply isn't possible.

https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/28/1

Yes, exactly. A change to the law is exactly what Democrats have always been proposing.

As far as controlling all houses in 2020 that's the only reason it's relevant anyway as if the Democrats win the presidency they will probably win the House. The Senate is the hard part but if they don't win the senate then Republicans will just go back to blockading new nominees anyway. Someday the Democrats will regain all 3 elected parts howeve,r and at that point they should absolutely deploy not just the nuclear option, but the thermonuclear option. I would start by adding say, five seats and filling them. Then you go back to the Republicans and say 'this can stop any time you want, or should we keep adding more?'

You use that leverage to put in place a constitutional amendment that depoliticizes the court and does something like Butteigeig recommended - Republicans pick 5 justices, Democrats pick 5 justices, then those 10 justices pick the final five together. Stops the games and nonsense around the court and it's probably the court's only hope in getting back the legitimacy it's steadily lost since Bush v. Gore.

 

[vi edit]

State AG is a great place to have an impact.

Yup, Kentucky AG is the one bright spot in this shit stain of a Government. He's the only person holding Bevin's balls to the fire.

 

[vi edit]

Yes, exactly. A change to the law is exactly what Democrats have always been proposing.

As far as controlling all houses in 2020 that's the only reason it's relevant anyway as if the Democrats win the presidency they will probably win the House. The Senate is the hard part but if they don't win the senate then Republicans will just go back to blockading new nominees anyway. Someday the Democrats will regain all 3 elected parts howeve,r and at that point they should absolutely deploy not just the nuclear option, but the thermonuclear option. I would start by adding say, five seats and filling them. Then you go back to the Republicans and say 'this can stop any time you want, or should we keep adding more?'

You use that leverage to put in place a constitutional amendment that depoliticizes the court and does something like Butteigeig recommended - Republicans pick 5 justices, Democrats pick 5 justices, then those 10 justices pick the final five together. Stops the games and nonsense around the court and it's probably the court's only hope in getting back the legitimacy it's steadily lost since Bush v. Gore.

Weaponizing supreme court seats HAS GOT TO STOP. Term limits and a rotating schedule or like Mayor Pete's suggestion. Whatever. Just end the madness and insanity involved in picking a lifetime position that can impact every day lives of American's for decades.

 

[fskimospy]

Weaponizing supreme court seats HAS GOT TO STOP. Term limits and a rotating schedule or like Mayor Pete's suggestion. Whatever. Just end the madness and insanity involved in picking a lifetime position that can impact every day lives of American's for decades.

Rotating schedule works for me too where every president gets like 2 or whatever. I agree though, weaponizing SCOTUS must end. I feel that the only way you're going to get it to end though is by showing Republicans there is a price to pay for their attempts to subvert the normal process. This is why I don't understand the arguments against packing the court. If Democrats just continue on as normal Republicans will be more than happy to keep blocking Democratic nominees purely because they are Democratic nominees.

 

[Ken g6]

What are common-sense centrist positions for:
...
health care?

Obamacare. It's basically the same as what Mitt Romney did in Massachusetts.

environmental issues?
energy policy?

I'm not sure what those would be. They haven't been developed, because politicians haven't yet agreed that global warming is happening, is already causing problems, and that those problems will get worse. Not to mention how politicians have recently ignored the impacts of well-known pollutants like mercury (in coal power plant emissions) and lead (in Flint, Michigan's drinking water, among others). If politicians could agree that scientists are presenting the facts, then they could have a common-sense debate about what a centrist position would look like.

 

[dank69]

Obamacare. It's basically the same as what Mitt Romney did in Massachusetts.

I'm not sure what those would be. They haven't been developed, because politicians haven't yet agreed that global warming is happening, is already causing problems, and that those problems will get worse. Not to mention how politicians have recently ignored the impacts of well-known pollutants like mercury (in coal power plant emissions) and lead (in Flint, Michigan's drinking water, among others). If politicians could agree that scientists are presenting the facts, then they could have a common-sense debate about what a centrist position would look like.

While Obamacare is clearly better than what we had before it, it still sucks compared to what other nations are doing.

 

[vi edit]

Rotating schedule works for me too where every president gets like 2 or whatever. I agree though, weaponizing SCOTUS must end. I feel that the only way you're going to get it to end though is by showing Republicans there is a price to pay for their attempts to subvert the normal process. This is why I don't understand the arguments against packing the court. If Democrats just continue on as normal Republicans will be more than happy to keep blocking Democratic nominees purely because they are Democratic nominees.

I just wish a bunch of judges on these lifetime appointments would come together and in an open hearing tell the toll that the appointment made on their life. Do we think RGB really enjoys having every slip, cough and Dr's appoint under a microscope with a deathwatch and vultures hovering around waiting to slot in a conservative in her seat? She's hanging on as long as she can until a new administration comes in. Give these people an easier out and not politicize their lives.

 

[Ken g6]

While Obamacare is clearly better than what we had before it, it still sucks compared to what other nations are doing.

Absolutely. It's a centrist compromise, not the optimal solution. This thread is about compromising to give people what they want, even though it may not be what would be best for them. At least that way it won't be what's worst for them either.

 

[1prophet]

The middle point between Democrats and Republicans is still way too far right.

If the Democrats did their jobs and took care of the working class like they used to instead of trying to be republican-lite corporate whores behind the scenes the middle point wouldn't be so far to the right.

Democrats once represented the working class. Not any more

Bill Clinton and Barack Obama helped shift power away from the people towards corporations. It was this that created an opening for Donald Trump

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2016/nov/10/democrats-working-class-americans-us-election

Democrats have occupied the White House for 16 of the last 24 years, and for four of those years had control of both houses of Congress. But in that time they failed to reverse the decline in working-class wages and economic security. Both Bill Clinton and Barack Obama ardently pushed for free trade agreements without providing millions of blue-collar workers who thereby lost their jobs means of getting new ones that paid at least as well.


They stood by as corporations hammered trade unions, the backbone of the white working class – failing to reform labor laws to impose meaningful penalties on companies that violate them, or help workers form unions with simple up-or-down votes. Partly as a result, union membership sank from 22% of all workers when Bill Clinton was elected president to less than 12% today, and the working class lost bargaining leverage to get a share of the economy’s gains.


Bill Clinton and Obama also allowed antitrust enforcement to ossify – with the result that large corporations have grown far larger, and major industries more concentrated. The unsurprising result of this combination – more trade, declining unionization and more industry concentration – has been to shift political and economic power to big corporations and the wealthy, and to shaft the working class. This created an opening for Donald Trump’s authoritarian demagoguery, and his presidency.


Now Americans have rebelled by supporting someone who wants to fortify America against foreigners as well as foreign-made goods. The power structure understandably fears that Trump’s isolationism will stymie economic growth. But most Americans couldn’t care less about growth because for years they have received few of its benefits, while suffering most of its burdens in the forms of lost jobs and lower wages.


The power structure is shocked by the outcome of the 2016 election because it has cut itself off from the lives of most Americans. Perhaps it also doesn’t wish to understand, because that would mean acknowledging its role in enabling the presidency of Donald Trump.

 

[SMOGZINN]

If the Democrats did their jobs and took care of the working class like they used to instead of trying to be republican-lite corporate whores behind the scenes the middle point wouldn't be so far to the right.

It has to suck being a Republican and being forced to do all these terrible things because the Democrats didn't stop them. How dare the Democrats not do enough to stop them? It is obviously all their fault for the things the Republicans do.

 

[ondma]

Actually, Jennifer Lawrence has been on a break from "acting" since Silver Linings Playbook.

 

[thilanliyan]

If the Democrats did their jobs and took care of the working class like they used to instead of trying to be republican-lite corporate whores behind the scenes the middle point wouldn't be so far to the right.

Wasn't this started under Reagan...the power and wealth shift towards the elite and corporations? Do the Repubs not have any backbone to fight for the "working class"?

Also, it sounds like you are saying that Republicans are corporate whores but worse since they are "full-fat" instead of "lite"?

 

[dank69]

If the Democrats did their jobs and took care of the working class like they used to instead of trying to be republican-lite corporate whores behind the scenes the middle point wouldn't be so far to the right.

Democrats once represented the working class. Not any more

Bill Clinton and Barack Obama helped shift power away from the people towards corporations. It was this that created an opening for Donald Trump

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2016/nov/10/democrats-working-class-americans-us-election

Yup Democrats aren't perfect so might as well vote for Republicans so they implement as many harmful policies as possible. Or yup Democrats aren't perfect so might as well not vote at all so more Republicans win and implement as many harmful policies as possible.

 

[s0me0nesmind1]

Wasn't this started under Reagan...the power and wealth shift towards the elite and corporations? Do the Repubs not have any backbone to fight for the "working class"?

Also, it sounds like you are saying that Republicans are corporate whores but worse since they are "full-fat" instead of "lite"?

Does it matter who starts it? What matters is who ends it.

 

[ondma]

The Democrats (most of them at least) *have* lost track of the working class. Of course part of it has to do with people just not liking Hillary, but look at the states Trump flipped in the Midwest: Iowa, Wisconsin, Michigan, Ohio, and Pennsylvania. Two primarily rural/farming states and 3 old school industrial/manufacturing states. D Farmer-Labor my ass. Not to mention every other Midwestern state except Minnesota and Illinois also voted Republican. Even more troubling for 2020, I would consider Hillary a moderate compared to most of the candidates running for the nomination this year.