Jen Hsun Huang says NO to Globalfoundries

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AyashiKaibutsu

AyashiKaibutsu

Diamond Member
Jan 24, 2004
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SunnyD said:
The only thing that can run a company into the ground faster than government regulations: Foolish pride.
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Eh? A big part of nvidias future profits will be in staying competitive... Funding your competitions R&D so you can get a quick technological boost seems like it would be a short sighted decision that could only lead to failure in the long run. Whatever part pride played in it, I don't really see it as a foolish move.
 
solofly

solofly

Banned
May 25, 2003
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BenSkywalker said:
I tend to consider that beyond a 'can of whoop ass' actually, quite a bit beyond. His comment was directed towards Intel's challenge on the graphics front and quite frankly, they are too scared to even enter the ring.
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I'll bet you he meant something else... To me that comment was geared towards CPUs and not graphic cards...
 
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Fox5

Diamond Member
Jan 31, 2005
5,957
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AyashiKaibutsu said:
Eh? A big part of nvidias future profits will be in staying competitive... Funding your competitions R&D so you can get a quick technological boost seems like it would be a short sighted decision that could only lead to failure in the long run. Whatever part pride played in it, I don't really see it as a foolish move.
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GF is a separate company now, it would seem that any revenue GF gets, would go right back into GF. Sure, it would benefit AMD, and any other customers GF has too.

Plus, the enemy of Intel is somewhat nvidia's ally. Hypertransport is a far more open platform than Intel's, and if AMD ever got a significant share of the market or became the high end choice again, nvidia could find chipsets for AMD's platform profitable. Maybe they could even scale hypertransport down to the mobile market and have unified chipset development all based on the hypertransport bus.

Nvidia would also be able to create a drop in cpu, if they ever get into cpu development.
 
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Idontcare

Elite Member
Oct 10, 1999
21,118
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Genx87 said:
I'd suspect if\when GF has a better process for GPUs Nvidia would use them.
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I think there is a lot of truth to this...Nvidia can blow a lot of smoke up TSMC's ass talking about how loyal they are when there really aren't any alternatives out there at the moment...but should the day ever come where sticking with TSMC means choosing the second best process technology, well that would then be the day that Jensen will have some interesting shareholder meetings come earnings report time.

Shareholders (institutional kind, not you mean and me small-fry kind) like scapegoats when things go bad and whether or not process tech is the real reason if it becomes an obvious delta between NV and AMD then its going to be cited as the reason and changes in management will be expected by wallstreet (read: NV shareprice will take a P/E hit) until a change in strategy to close that technology gap is made.

Jensen is not a fool, he knows this, so I doubt it will ever get to that point. Should TSMC stumble then I doubt Jensen will give second thought to abandoning ship at the next available tech node that NV's design team can intersect with under-development GPUs.
 
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BenSkywalker

Diamond Member
Oct 9, 1999
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So Nvidia wants to open a 'can of whoop ass' where Intel really isn't even (yet?) competing?
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This does get a bit tricky, but try to follow- Intel has the majority of the graphics market. Intel sells more graphics chips then AMD and nVidia combined. Larrabee is shaping up to be years late(not months) and the best demo of it we have seen is running a game years old ATi/nV cards push over 100FPS as a slideshow. Now to add some more fuel to that fire, nV is pulling the cross licensing agreement out from under Intel which will allow them to make no graphics chips at all. There are several different ways you can look at it, but at the end of the day nVidia has opened more then a can of whoop ass on Intel in this market already, it could soon turn into a tanker ;)

As far as using GF- are people normally thinking that it is a good idea to business with criminals? I'm really rather shocked that people are under the impression that moving to GF at this point in time would be wise. We know that the people running the company are crooked, they are looking at jail time for what they have already done- and people are seriously thinking they wouldn't steal nV's designs and give them to ATi? Until GF is thoroughly investigated and all of the con men placed in prison I can't see how anyone would reasonably expect a company to risk billions of dollars into them. As of right now, not even ATi trusts them enough to use them. Sure, TSMC has issues, but I don't see their executives in cuffs on the news.
 
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schenley101

Member
Aug 10, 2009
115
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MrK6 said:
I consider Intel on a completely different level than the rest of these companies. In all honesty, I see Intel as competing only with itself. The size, depth, and resources of the company are outright amazing. I mean, I don't really see Intel partaking in the kind of shit talking that both NVIDIA and AMD do, and my assumption is they don't need to. So NVIDIA can say all it wants and it probably barely registers with Intel.
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Thank you for saying this. People don't seem to understand how far ahead and amazingly enormous intel is. intel gets into a market because they want to, not because they need to unlike everybody else. Its scary sometimes.
 
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thilanliyan

Lifer
Jun 21, 2005
11,864
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BenSkywalker said:
Until GF is thoroughly investigated and all of the con men placed in prison I can't see how anyone would reasonably expect a company to risk billions of dollars into them. As of right now, not even ATi trusts them enough to use them. Sure, TSMC has issues, but I don't see their executives in cuffs on the news.
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I'm probably not up to speed on this but do you have a link to that? The most I've heard is Hector did something a while back when he was with AMD...nothing recently. Were there other GF employees involved?
 
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SlowSpyder

Lifer
Jan 12, 2005
17,305
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BenSkywalker said:
This does get a bit tricky, but try to follow- Intel has the majority of the graphics market. Intel sells more graphics chips then AMD and nVidia combined. Larrabee is shaping up to be years late(not months) and the best demo of it we have seen is running a game years old ATi/nV cards push over 100FPS as a slideshow. Now to add some more fuel to that fire, nV is pulling the cross licensing agreement out from under Intel which will allow them to make no graphics chips at all. There are several different ways you can look at it, but at the end of the day nVidia has opened more then a can of whoop ass on Intel in this market already, it could soon turn into a tanker ;)

As far as using GF- are people normally thinking that it is a good idea to business with criminals? I'm really rather shocked that people are under the impression that moving to GF at this point in time would be wise. We know that the people running the company are crooked, they are looking at jail time for what they have already done- and people are seriously thinking they wouldn't steal nV's designs and give them to ATi? Until GF is thoroughly investigated and all of the con men placed in prison I can't see how anyone would reasonably expect a company to risk billions of dollars into them. As of right now, not even ATi trusts them enough to use them. Sure, TSMC has issues, but I don't see their executives in cuffs on the news.
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I understand that, but at the same time depending on the metric Nvidia has hardly opened a can of whoop ass. Comparing Nvidias (or AMD's) oferings to Larrabee, sure, Nvidia handily wins there. But comparing market share? Nvidia being shutout of the chipset business when it comes to i7? Those cans are still sealed tightly. :)

I asked this somewhat similar question about how willing Nvidia would be to use GF in a different thread. With GF's close ties to AMD, Nvidia would have to share a lot of sensitive info with GF to have them fab their GPU's, no doubt this info would somehow, some way find it's way to AMD engineers I'd think. IDC was kind enough to shed some light on the subject, more or less what I took out of his reply was that chances are AMD engineers probably have a pretty good idea already of what Nvidia is bringing to the table. But if Nvidia has a magic bullet, and ace up their sleeve I would think using GF would guarantee that AMD would get this info if they used GF. But Nvidia is stuck between a rock and a hard place, assuming GF might have the better process than TMSC, do they use them and risk AMD getting wind of their secrets? Or do they not?
 
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BenSkywalker

Diamond Member
Oct 9, 1999
9,140
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Ms. Chiesi, Mr. Rajaratnam and four others face federal criminal and civil charges stemming from allegations involving insider information from companies that include AMD, Intel Corp., International Business Machines Corp., Polycom Inc. and Akamai Technologies Inc. All the defendants have said they are innocent.
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http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&...der+trading+wall+street+journal&aq=f&oq=&aqi=

Hit the top link(if I link directly it requires a sub, Google bypasses this), Ruiz was the last one to go down that I am aware of so far.
 
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jvroig

Platinum Member
Nov 4, 2009
2,394
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I saw that piece of news when it came out, and just because Hector Ruiz was invovled, all GF executives are crooks out to steal NV designs?
 
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thilanliyan

Lifer
Jun 21, 2005
11,864
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Denithor

Denithor

Diamond Member
Apr 11, 2004
6,300
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ZimZum said:
My question is why is ATI even using TSMC at all?
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Because AMD didn't have enough fab capacity to handle their CPU and GPU lines?

And/or because ATi was already established on TSMC setup and either couldn't modify easily to AMD setup or were under contract for some length of time.
 
postmortemIA

postmortemIA

Diamond Member
Jul 11, 2006
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um, Nvidia going with GF would mean that AMD will know their schedule, future plans, problems, yields, and many other secrets.

I don't see how it would pay off for nvidia if they are competing with AMD.
 
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jvroig

Platinum Member
Nov 4, 2009
2,394
1
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postmortemIA said:
um, Nvidia going with GF would mean that AMD will know their schedule, future plans, problems, yields, and many other secrets. I don't see how it would pay off for nvidia if they are competing with AMD.
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I guess you haven't heard :) GF will very soon be completely independent. AMD is going 100% fabless, made possible thanks to the recent Intel-AMD settlement.
 
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T2k

Golden Member
Feb 24, 2004
1,664
5
0
BenSkywalker said:
As far as using GF- are people normally thinking that it is a good idea to business with criminals? I'm really rather shocked that people are under the impression that moving to GF at this point in time would be wise. We know that the people running the company are crooked, they are looking at jail time for what they have already done- and people are seriously thinking they wouldn't steal nV's designs and give them to ATi? Until GF is thoroughly investigated and all of the con men placed in prison I can't see how anyone would reasonably expect a company to risk billions of dollars into them. As of right now, not even ATi trusts them enough to use them. Sure, TSMC has issues, but I don't see their executives in cuffs on the news.
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Jesus, what a typical shitty, low-life, black whispering campaign marketing you are doing here.D:D:D:

You have the balls to talk about criminals in context of someone else after NV's countless disgusting tricks and cheats?

An Nvidia shill is always an Nvidia shill, I guess.
 
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BenSkywalker

Diamond Member
Oct 9, 1999
9,140
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You have the balls to talk about criminals in context of someone else after NV's countless disgusting tricks and cheats?
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Link their crimes- those being prosecuted by the government or shut your silly ignorant mouth :)
 
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BenSkywalker

Diamond Member
Oct 9, 1999
9,140
67
91
So how does the galleon group=GF?
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Allegations state the people within Global Foundries were giving Galleon Group insider information so that they could complete deals based on reports being released with advanced information. This is insider trading, and it is illegal for anyone in a publicly traded company to have anything at all to do with it.
 
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