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Jeffrey Epstein's death was 'likely homicide, not suicide', says famed NYC pathologist

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compuwiz1

Admin Emeritus Elite Member
Oct 9, 1999
26,999
783
126
Do you think Barr is on top of that?
He should be, but I don't know, nor do I know if the State's AG is. This should not be a partisan issue. People need to know the truth and the chips need to fall where they may. There are politicians who have been involved with Epstein, as well as other rich and powerful people, so we probably get nothing.
 

Muse

Lifer
Jul 11, 2001
29,116
3,092
126
He should be, but I don't know, nor do I know if the State's AG is. This should not be a partisan issue. People need to know the truth and the chips need to fall where they may. There are politicians who have been involved with Epstein, as well as other rich and powerful people, so we probably get nothing.
Exactly, and the USA is in such a corrupt state now that it's highly unlikely that the truth will come out concerning this, IMO.
 

CZroe

Lifer
Jun 24, 2001
24,115
788
126
Huh? What on earth made you think I believe that?
Your words.

If Epstein really was murdered wouldn’t Trump be the suspect #1? He certainly appears to have had abundant motive
It's the "wouldn't Trump be the suspect #1" and "abundant motive" parts he thinks is insane. It is based on hyperbolic speculation about Trump and Epstein despite Trump distancing himself and even calling him out years ago.

I don't like Trump but I also don't like deluding myself about his links to Epstein. It seems to me that Trump even took some passive-aggressive jabs at the guy in public.

Your words indicate you believe Trump would be suspect #1 if Epstein were murdered and that is pretty far out there. I do hope you were being hyperbolic but your defensive reactions says otherwise.
 

fskimospy

Elite Member
Mar 10, 2006
71,097
20,746
136
Your words.

It's the "wouldn't Trump be the suspect #1" and "abundant motive" parts he thinks is insane. It is based on hyperbolic speculation about Trump and Epstein despite Trump distancing himself and even calling him out years ago.

I don't like Trump but I also don't like deluding myself about his links to Epstein. It seems to me that Trump even took some passive-aggressive jabs at the guy in public.

Your words indicate you believe Trump would be suspect #1 if Epstein were murdered and that is pretty far out there. I do hope you were being hyperbolic but your defensive reactions says otherwise.
I've been very clear that I don't believe Epstein was murdered, which is why it was baffling that he would seem to think I held such a crazy opinion. The entire idea that Epstein was murdered is based on hyperbolic speculation.

It is common sense that Trump would be one of the top suspects if Epstein WERE to turn out to be murdered though. It would be bizarre for someone to think otherwise, frankly. Trump clearly had abundant contacts with Epstein over the years which indicates a strong possibility that Trump would have interactions he wished to hide and the facility in which he was 'murdered' was under Trump's control at the time of Epstein's death. Considering the large number of people who might have wanted to see Epstein silenced it doesn't mean any one person is particularly likely to have been behind his 'murder' but if you had to pick a person as the most likely suspect Trump would be a very strong contender.

But again though, the whole 'Epstein was murdered' thing has very little evidence to support it. It's silliness.
 

dank69

Lifer
Oct 6, 2009
26,195
6,242
136
...

It's the "wouldn't Trump be the suspect #1" and "abundant motive" parts he thinks is insane. It is based on hyperbolic speculation about Trump and Epstein despite Trump distancing himself and even calling him out years ago.

I don't like Trump but I also don't like deluding myself about his links to Epstein. It seems to me that Trump even took some passive-aggressive jabs at the guy in public.

...
Your logic from this post seems to be: "Trump didn't have a motive to kill Epstein because he didn't even like the guy."
 

CZroe

Lifer
Jun 24, 2001
24,115
788
126
It is common sense that Trump would be one of the top suspects if Epstein WERE to turn out to be murdered though. It would be bizarre for someone to think otherwise, frankly.
Again?

He wasn't challenging you for believing Epstein was killed. He was challenging you for this.

It's the part contingent on "if" that he takes issue with. Me too, if I'm honest. Though the first time sounded like possible sarcasm, you've defensively doubled-down on it without a hint of sarcasm. Oooookay.

Trump and Epstein were not close... at all. Even Trump's public platitudes were couched with passive-aggressive call-outs.

MANY years ago:
"Jeffrey Epstein: International Moneyman of Mystery...He’s a lot of fun to be with. It is even said that he likes beautiful women as much as I do, and many of them are on the younger side. No doubt about it — Jeffrey enjoys his social life."

He was clearly drawing attention to:
A) Seemingly no one knows where he gets his money
B) He likes women young enough to be particularly noted
C) He's distancing himself by attributing these impressions to "what is said"

If anything, it makes me think of Seth McFarlane calling out Harvey Weinstein and Cosby before the accusations were common knowledge.

Sorry, but but "Donald Trumpneould be the #1 suspect" is a position arguably just as extreme as the idea that Epstein was murdered... if not more extreme. It's a bit odd to ridicule the idea that Epstein was murdered while simultaneously saying that you think Trump would be the #1 suspect if he were (something potentially more ridiculous).

Come on now. Trump is bad enough. No reason to make stuff up at the expense of our own credibility. There's plenty left to criticize.


Your logic from this post seems to be: "Trump didn't have a motive to kill Epstein because he didn't even like the guy."
*facepalm*
 

dank69

Lifer
Oct 6, 2009
26,195
6,242
136
Again?

He wasn't challenging you for believing Epstein was killed. He was challenging you for this.

It's the part contingent on "if" that he takes issue with. Me too, if I'm honest. Though the first time sounded like possible sarcasm, you've defensively doubled-down on it without a hint of sarcasm. Oooookay.

Trump and Epstein were not close... at all. Even Trump's public platitudes were couched with passive-aggressive call-outs.

MANY years ago:
"Jeffrey Epstein: International Moneyman of Mystery...He’s a lot of fun to be with. It is even said that he likes beautiful women as much as I do, and many of them are on the younger side. No doubt about it — Jeffrey enjoys his social life."

He was clearly drawing attention to:
A) Seemingly no one knows where he gets his money
B) He likes women young enough to be particularly noted
C) He's distancing himself by attributing these impressions to "what is said"

If anything, it makes me think of Seth McFarlane calling out Harvey Weinstein and Cosby before the accusations were common knowledge.

Sorry, but but "Donald Trumpneould be the #1 suspect" is a position arguably just as extreme as the idea that Epstein was murdered... if not more extreme. It's a bit odd to ridicule the idea that Epstein was murdered while simultaneously saying that you think Trump would be the #1 suspect if he were (something potentially more ridiculous).

Come on now. Trump is bad enough. No reason to make stuff up at the expense of our own credibility. There's plenty left to criticize.




*facepalm*
You can facepalm all you want but your logic clearly breaks down to that. I know you think you are making a point that they were not close, but in order to believe that part you would have to ignore some inconvenient truths. Things like the fact that they literally had a party together, Epstein seems to have operated out of Mar-a-lago, etc. So given those things your attempt to divine Trump's intentions from a public statement and then pretend those divinations carry more weight than actual evidence you can verify for yourself falls pretty flat, and you are left with what I posted.
 
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fskimospy

Elite Member
Mar 10, 2006
71,097
20,746
136
Again?

He wasn't challenging you for believing Epstein was killed. He was challenging you for this.

It's the part contingent on "if" that he takes issue with. Me too, if I'm honest. Though the first time sounded like possible sarcasm, you've defensively doubled-down on it without a hint of sarcasm. Oooookay.

Trump and Epstein were not close... at all. Even Trump's public platitudes were couched with passive-aggressive call-outs.

MANY years ago:
"Jeffrey Epstein: International Moneyman of Mystery...He’s a lot of fun to be with. It is even said that he likes beautiful women as much as I do, and many of them are on the younger side. No doubt about it — Jeffrey enjoys his social life."

He was clearly drawing attention to:
A) Seemingly no one knows where he gets his money
B) He likes women young enough to be particularly noted
C) He's distancing himself by attributing these impressions to "what is said"

If anything, it makes me think of Seth McFarlane calling out Harvey Weinstein and Cosby before the accusations were common knowledge.

Sorry, but but "Donald Trumpneould be the #1 suspect" is a position arguably just as extreme as the idea that Epstein was murdered... if not more extreme. It's a bit odd to ridicule the idea that Epstein was murdered while simultaneously saying that you think Trump would be the #1 suspect if he were (something potentially more ridiculous).

Come on now. Trump is bad enough. No reason to make stuff up at the expense of our own credibility. There's plenty left to criticize.

*facepalm*
I’m just using common sense and it’s frankly odd that you’re so incapable of doing so yourself.

Trump and Epstein has extensive ties for 15 years or more, specifically involving women.


Trump also controlled the facility where Epstein died.

Predicated on the ridiculous theory of Epstein being murdered proving true it is common sense for any competent investigator to view an individual with a strong potential for a motive and with an absolutely unique ability to act on it as a strong suspect.

I’m not sure why you’ve decided it’s a good idea to concern troll about this but to be clear I don’t give a shit if you hate Trump or are a charter member of his fan club. I also don’t care about you pretending to care about my ‘credibility’, as if that matters anyway. My entire argument is based off logic and common sense. If you don’t like it that’s fine but for all our sake cut out the concern trolling. It’s dumb.
 

Jhhnn

No Lifer
Nov 11, 1999
61,652
13,732
136
It's all bullshit. No signs of a struggle nor drugs in his system. A pathologist who was in the room for the autopsy comes out 10 weeks later with a statement he thinks it was homicide. Gimme a break.

Epstein was fukololo & he knew it. If he snitched on half of the Free World he'd still get 20 fucking years in the joint as a sex offender & likely wouldn't survive to ever see daylight. So he offed himself instead.
 
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CZroe

Lifer
Jun 24, 2001
24,115
788
126
You can facepalm all you want but your logic clearly breaks down to that. I know you think you are making a point that they were not close, but in order to believe that part you would have to ignore some inconvenient truths. Things like the fact that they literally had a party together, Epstein seems to have operated out of Mar-a-lago, etc. So given those things your attempt to divine Trump's intentions from a public statement and then pretend those divinations carry more weight than actual evidence you can verify for yourself falls pretty flat, and you are left with what I posted.
He was banned from Mar-a-Lago.

...by Trump.

Yes, rich people sometimes go to big parties with lots of other rich people and sometimes interact with each other. Real shocker. It's freaking conspiracy-nut LOONEY to read more into that.

We know they've interacted. LOTS of people have. Trump's interactions appear surprisingly minimal and yet here you are, acting like they were best buds because they were seen together before. It's not like Trump took several flights on Epstein's private "Lolita Express" jet or anything, like someone else you'd like to pretend has weaker ties than Trump.

We know they know each other. Just why do you think anyone was asking Trump what he thought about Epstein in the first place when he passive-aggressively called Epstein out all those years ago?

Here... I reserved a facepalm just for you:
*facepalm*
 

Muse

Lifer
Jul 11, 2001
29,116
3,092
126
Trump was on record for saying Epstein was a great guy. Wouldn't surprise me if Epstein had dirt on Trump if he got to spilling all the beans. Dang, he practically ran a pimping service for under age girls and we know that Trump loves really young women and probably has had full sexual relations with under age girls. Can't prove it but it wouldn't surprise me in the least.
 

fskimospy

Elite Member
Mar 10, 2006
71,097
20,746
136
He was banned from Mar-a-Lago.

...by Trump.

Yes, rich people sometimes go to big parties with lots of other rich people and sometimes interact with each other. Real shocker. It's freaking conspiracy-nut LOONEY to read more into that.

We know they've interacted. LOTS of people have. Trump's interactions appear surprisingly minimal and yet here you are, acting like they were best buds because they were seen together before. It's not like Trump took several flights on Epstein's private "Lolita Express" jet or anything, like someone else you'd like to pretend has weaker ties than Trump.

We know they know each other. Just why do you think anyone was asking Trump what he thought about Epstein in the first place when he passive-aggressively called Epstein out all those years ago?

Here... I reserved a facepalm just for you:
*facepalm*
People who actually know them both appear to disagree with you. Can you explain how you came to superior knowledge?

 

Muse

Lifer
Jul 11, 2001
29,116
3,092
126
It's all bullshit. No signs of a struggle nor drugs in his system. A pathologist who was in the room for the autopsy comes out 10 weeks later with a statement he thinks it was homicide. Gimme a break.

Epstein was fukololo & he knew it. If he snitched on half of the Free World he'd still get 20 fucking years in the joint as a sex offender & likely wouldn't survive to ever see daylight. So he offed himself instead.
Broken bones in his neck? From hanging himself with bedsheet? I don't believe it either.
 

dank69

Lifer
Oct 6, 2009
26,195
6,242
136
He was banned from Mar-a-Lago.

...by Trump.

Yes, rich people sometimes go to big parties with lots of other rich people and sometimes interact with each other. Real shocker. It's freaking conspiracy-nut LOONEY to read more into that.

We know they've interacted. LOTS of people have. Trump's interactions appear surprisingly minimal and yet here you are, acting like they were best buds because they were seen together before. It's not like Trump took several flights on Epstein's private "Lolita Express" jet or anything, like someone else you'd like to pretend has weaker ties than Trump.

We know they know each other. Just why do you think anyone was asking Trump what he thought about Epstein in the first place when he passive-aggressively called Epstein out all those years ago?

Here... I reserved a facepalm just for you:
*facepalm*
Read the link fskimo provided for you. They didn't just attend some of the same parties. They literally had parties together. Just them and a bunch of girls.

What do you think Trump throwing him out of Mar-a-Lago proves? We are talking about motive here and if Epstein had dirt on Trump it wouldn't magically disappear because Trump tossed him.

Regarding Clinton, I never implied that Trump or Clinton had stronger or weaker ties. That is irrelevant and the primary source of your confusion. Who was close with Epstein has absolutely no bearing on why Trump would be suspect #1. Trump would be suspect #1 because Epstein was imprisoned in a facility under his control.
 

Jhhnn

No Lifer
Nov 11, 1999
61,652
13,732
136
Broken bones in his neck? From hanging himself with bedsheet? I don't believe it either.
This bone-


You're entertaining conspiracy theory. Baden was in the fucking room for the autopsy. Ten weeks later he comes out on Fox News claiming it was murder. Ten fucking weeks. That gives him negative credibility. Anybody who falls for it is suffering from motivated reasoning.
 

Ichinisan

Lifer
Oct 9, 2002
28,289
1,218
136
You can facepalm all you want but your logic clearly breaks down to that. I know you think you are making a point that they were not close, but in order to believe that part you would have to ignore some inconvenient truths. Things like the fact that they literally had a party together, Epstein seems to have operated out of Mar-a-lago, etc. So given those things your attempt to divine Trump's intentions from a public statement and then pretend those divinations carry more weight than actual evidence you can verify for yourself falls pretty flat, and you are left with what I posted.
Just ignore the fact that Trump banned Epstein and associates from MAL due to the unsanctioned and unwelcome recruitment efforts toward his guests. Yeah. Just ignore that.
 

dank69

Lifer
Oct 6, 2009
26,195
6,242
136
Just ignore the fact that Trump banned Epstein and associates from MAL due to the unsanctioned and unwelcome recruitment efforts toward his guests. Yeah. Just ignore that.
I'm not ignoring anything. Epstein tried to recruit one of Trump's guest's 15yo daughter or whatever, so Trump apparently had to ban him from MAL. What do you think that proves?
 

Muse

Lifer
Jul 11, 2001
29,116
3,092
126
This bone-


You're entertaining conspiracy theory. Baden was in the fucking room for the autopsy. Ten weeks later he comes out on Fox News claiming it was murder. Ten fucking weeks. That gives him negative credibility. Anybody who falls for it is suffering from motivated reasoning.
I don't base my feelings on the matter on that guy's actions or inactions. I mean anybody with a brain and no stake in the matter would suspect murder in this. Look at the details. Has bigtime dirt on super rich super influential people. Was supposed to be on suicide watch. Guards go derelict. Whoops! Oh, dang, he's dead... coroner looks and says suicide (could feel the cold wind on his coroner neck). CASE CLOSED!

Yeah, right...:rolleyes:
 
Last edited:
Dec 10, 2005
20,735
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If there was anything nefarious with higher ups in the chain of command, it seems much more likely that the they would leave incompetent staff to their own devices (ie not properly monitoring a guy who was looking to take his own life). No reason to go out of your way to murder someone who seemed quite interested in killing himself to avoid life in a federal prison.
 
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VRAMdemon

Diamond Member
Aug 16, 2012
4,913
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In the hypothetical that Epstein was actually murdered, not considering Trump as a suspect would be horrible detective work. Just because he banned him from his palace in Palm Beach doesn't mean squat. Banning him doesn't negate anything that happened between the two before that and doesn't negate any motive Trump would have to have him killed.

For the record, I don't think Epstein was murdered. And if he was, I don't think Trump would be behind it. That doesn't mean - if i was the lead detective on the case - I wouldn't investigate Trump, and when no evidence comes to light, I would clear him. Just like in any murder investigation
 

CZroe

Lifer
Jun 24, 2001
24,115
788
126
In the hypothetical that Epstein was actually murdered, not considering Trump as a suspect would be horrible detective work. Just because he banned him from his palace in Palm Beach doesn't mean squat. Banning him doesn't negate anything that happened between the two before that and doesn't negate any motive Trump would have to have him killed.

For the record, I don't think Epstein was murdered. And if he was, I don't think Trump would be behind it. That doesn't mean - if i was the lead detective on the case - I wouldn't investigate Trump, and when no evidence comes to light, I would clear him. Just like in any murder investigation
So what you're saying is, you'd want to check him out but there would be no reason to think he's suspect #1 in light of the other rich and powerful people with even closer connections? That's pretty similar to my feelings on the matter. Ichinisan was calling him out for being oblivious to the optics of calling him suspect number 1 in the same hypothetical situation while simultaneously ridiculing conspiracy theorists.
 

Muse

Lifer
Jul 11, 2001
29,116
3,092
126
If there was anything nefarious with higher ups in the chain of command, it seems much more likely that the they would leave incompetent staff to their own devices (ie not properly monitoring a guy who was looking to take his own life). No reason to go out of your way to murder someone who seemed quite interested in killing himself to avoid life in a federal prison.
Fantasy world you're living in... just make believe. He's suicidal, give him enough rope and he's bound to kill himself, meantime play a round of golf and wait for the news. Yeah right.
 

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