Jeb Bush sinks to a new low. Jeb bush wants probe into terri schiavo's collapse.

[chambersc]

I'll quote some of the more important bullets provided in CQuinn's link:

February 25, 1990
Ms. Schiavo suffers cardiac arrest, apparently caused by a potassium imbalance and leading to brain damage due to lack of oxygen. She was taken to the Humana Northside Hospital and was later given a percutaneous endoscopic gastrostomy (PEG) to provide nutrition and hydration.Police Report

June 18, 1990
Court appoints Michael Schiavo as guardian; Ms. Schiavo?s parents do not object.

July 29, 1993
Schindlers attempt to remove Michael Schiavo as Ms. Schiavo?s guardian; the court later dismisses the suit.

March 1, 1994
First guardian ad litem, John H. Pecarek, submits his report. He states that Michael Schiavo has acted appropriately and attentively toward Ms. Schiavo.

May 1998
Michael Schiavo petitions the court to authorize the removal of Ms. Schiavo?s PEG tube; the Schindlers oppose, saying that she would want to remain alive. The court appoints Richard Pearse, Esq., to serve as the second guardian ad litem for Ms. Schiavo.

December 20, 1998
The second guardian ad litem, Richard Pearse, Esq., issues his report in which he concludes that Ms. Schiavo is in a persistent vegetative state with no chance of improvement and that Michael Schiavo?s decision-making may be influenced by the potential to inherit the remainder of Ms. Schiavo?s estate. (the latter statement about the greed maybe a little over the top but if that's the PROFESSIONAL opinion by an unbiased court-appointed guardian to review the case then I'll stick by it. I'm not one to by anti-decisions because they're not favorable to me)

February 11, 2000
Judge Greer rules that Ms. Schiavo would have chosen to have the PEG tube removed, and therefore he orders it removed, which, according to doctors, will cause her death in approximately 7 to 14 days.

March 2, 2000 - April 25, 2001
Motion after motion is denied by the judge to the Schindlers (read the site for a detailed listing of the decisions and appropriate links).

April 26, 2001
The Schindlers file an emergency motion with Judge Greer for relief from judgment based upon new evidence, which includes a claim that a former girlfriend of Michael Schiavo will testify that he lied about Ms. Schiavo?s wishes; Judge Greer dismisses the motion as untimely. Also on this date, the Schindlers file a new civil suit that claims that Michael Schiavo perjured himself when he testified that Ms. Schiavo had stated an aversion to remaining on life support. Pending this new civil trial, Circuit Court Judge Frank Quesada orders Ms. Schiavo?s PEG tube to be reinserted.

November 15, 2002
The Schindlers contend that Michael Schiavo might have abused Ms. Schiavo and this abuse led to her condition. They ask the court for more time to collect evidence, and to remove Michael Schiavo as guardian. (First formal declaration that Michael Schaivo was unfit...waiting 10years...?)

September 17, 2003
Judge Greer orders the removal of the PEG tube to take place on October 15, 2003. He also rejects the Schindlers? request that Ms. Schiavo be given therapy to learn how to eat without the tube.

October 7, 2003
Governor Jeb Bush files a federal court brief in support of the Schindlers? effort to stop the removal of the PEG tube.

October 15, 2003
Ms. Schiavo?s PEG tube is once again removed.

October 20, 2003
The Florida House of Representatives passes a bill, ?Terri?s Law,? that allows the governor to issue a ?one-time stay in certain cases.? (The border between the legislative and the executive branches is where exactly?)

October 21, 2003
The Florida Senate passes the bill; Governor Bush issues an executive order directing reinsertion of the PEG tube and appointing a guardian ad litem for Ms. Schiavo.

October 29, 2003
Michael Schiavo files court papers in his state-court lawsuit, arguing that ?Terri?s Law? is unconstitutional. The American Civil Liberties Union has joined Michael Schiavo.

November 4, 2003
Governor Jeb Bush asks Circuit Court Judge W. Douglas Baird to dismiss Michael Schiavo?s suit (filed October 21, 2003) that challenges ?Terri?s Law.?

November 8, 2003
Judge Baird denies Governor Bush?s motion to dismiss the state-court suit.

November 10, 2003
Governor Bush appeals Judge Baird?s decision; the filing of the appeal has the effect of staying the removal of Ms. Schiavo?s PEG tube.

November 21, 2003
Florida Sens. Stephen Wise and Jim Sebesta introduce legislation (S692) that would require persons in persistent vegetative states to be administered medically supplied nutrition and hydration in the absence of a living will, regardless of family beliefs about what those patients would have wanted. The measure is withdrawn from consideration on April 16, 2004.

December 1, 2003
University of South Florida Prof. Jay Wolfson, guardian ad litem, concludes in his report that Ms. Schiavo is in a persistent vegetative state with no chance of improvement.

March 29, 2004
Nursing home workers discover 4 ?fresh puncture wounds? on one arm and a fifth wound on the other arm; the workers state that a hypodermic needle appears to have caused the wounds. Attendants discovered the wounds shortly after the Schindlers visited Ms. Schiavo for 45 minutes. Toxicology reports indicate that no substance was injected into Ms. Schiavo. Clearwater police later conclude that the marks might have been made by a device used to move Ms. Schiavo and, in any case, that no evidence of abuse or other wrongdoing could be found

May 6, 2004
Pinellas Circuit Judge W. Douglas Baird rules that "Terri's Law," sought and signed by Gov. Bush and approved by the Legislature on October 21, 2003, is unconstitutional. The governor appeals the ruling

August 31, 2004
The Florida Supreme Court hears oral arguments in the lawsuit over the
constitutionality of "Terri's Law."

September 23, 2004
Florida's Supreme Court, unanimously affirming the trial court order, declares "Terri's Law" unconstitutional

This is all I have time for now, sorry. Got to go out to pick up my g/f. Will amend later if needbe.

Visit the site for dozens of relevant links to the specific court cases.

 

[sandorski]

Originally posted by: chambersc
I'll quote some of the more important bullets provided in CQuinn's link:

February 25, 1990
Ms. Schiavo suffers cardiac arrest, apparently caused by a potassium imbalance and leading to brain damage due to lack of oxygen. She was taken to the Humana Northside Hospital and was later given a percutaneous endoscopic gastrostomy (PEG) to provide nutrition and hydration.Police Report

June 18, 1990
Court appoints Michael Schiavo as guardian; Ms. Schiavo?s parents do not object.

July 29, 1993
Schindlers attempt to remove Michael Schiavo as Ms. Schiavo?s guardian; the court later dismisses the suit.

March 1, 1994
First guardian ad litem, John H. Pecarek, submits his report. He states that Michael Schiavo has acted appropriately and attentively toward Ms. Schiavo.

May 1998
Michael Schiavo petitions the court to authorize the removal of Ms. Schiavo?s PEG tube; the Schindlers oppose, saying that she would want to remain alive. The court appoints Richard Pearse, Esq., to serve as the second guardian ad litem for Ms. Schiavo.

December 20, 1998
The second guardian ad litem, Richard Pearse, Esq., issues his report in which he concludes that Ms. Schiavo is in a persistent vegetative state with no chance of improvement and that Michael Schiavo?s decision-making may be influenced by the potential to inherit the remainder of Ms. Schiavo?s estate. (the latter statement about the greed maybe a little over the top but if that's the PROFESSIONAL opinion by an unbiased court-appointed guardian to review the case then I'll stick by it. I'm not one to by anti-decisions because they're not favorable to me)

February 11, 2000
Judge Greer rules that Ms. Schiavo would have chosen to have the PEG tube removed, and therefore he orders it removed, which, according to doctors, will cause her death in approximately 7 to 14 days.

March 2, 2000 - April 25, 2001
Motion after motion is denied by the judge to the Schindlers (read the site for a detailed listing of the decisions and appropriate links).

April 26, 2001
The Schindlers file an emergency motion with Judge Greer for relief from judgment based upon new evidence, which includes a claim that a former girlfriend of Michael Schiavo will testify that he lied about Ms. Schiavo?s wishes; Judge Greer dismisses the motion as untimely. Also on this date, the Schindlers file a new civil suit that claims that Michael Schiavo perjured himself when he testified that Ms. Schiavo had stated an aversion to remaining on life support. Pending this new civil trial, Circuit Court Judge Frank Quesada orders Ms. Schiavo?s PEG tube to be reinserted.

November 15, 2002
The Schindlers contend that Michael Schiavo might have abused Ms. Schiavo and this abuse led to her condition. They ask the court for more time to collect evidence, and to remove Michael Schiavo as guardian. (First formal declaration that Michael Schaivo was unfit...waiting 10years...?)

September 17, 2003
Judge Greer orders the removal of the PEG tube to take place on October 15, 2003. He also rejects the Schindlers? request that Ms. Schiavo be given therapy to learn how to eat without the tube.

October 7, 2003
Governor Jeb Bush files a federal court brief in support of the Schindlers? effort to stop the removal of the PEG tube.

October 15, 2003
Ms. Schiavo?s PEG tube is once again removed.

October 20, 2003
The Florida House of Representatives passes a bill, ?Terri?s Law,? that allows the governor to issue a ?one-time stay in certain cases.? (The border between the legislative and the executive branches is where exactly?)

October 21, 2003
The Florida Senate passes the bill; Governor Bush issues an executive order directing reinsertion of the PEG tube and appointing a guardian ad litem for Ms. Schiavo.

October 29, 2003
Michael Schiavo files court papers in his state-court lawsuit, arguing that ?Terri?s Law? is unconstitutional. The American Civil Liberties Union has joined Michael Schiavo.

November 4, 2003
Governor Jeb Bush asks Circuit Court Judge W. Douglas Baird to dismiss Michael Schiavo?s suit (filed October 21, 2003) that challenges ?Terri?s Law.?

November 8, 2003
Judge Baird denies Governor Bush?s motion to dismiss the state-court suit.

November 10, 2003
Governor Bush appeals Judge Baird?s decision; the filing of the appeal has the effect of staying the removal of Ms. Schiavo?s PEG tube.

November 21, 2003
Florida Sens. Stephen Wise and Jim Sebesta introduce legislation (S692) that would require persons in persistent vegetative states to be administered medically supplied nutrition and hydration in the absence of a living will, regardless of family beliefs about what those patients would have wanted. The measure is withdrawn from consideration on April 16, 2004.

December 1, 2003
University of South Florida Prof. Jay Wolfson, guardian ad litem, concludes in his report that Ms. Schiavo is in a persistent vegetative state with no chance of improvement.

March 29, 2004
Nursing home workers discover 4 ?fresh puncture wounds? on one arm and a fifth wound on the other arm; the workers state that a hypodermic needle appears to have caused the wounds. Attendants discovered the wounds shortly after the Schindlers visited Ms. Schiavo for 45 minutes. Toxicology reports indicate that no substance was injected into Ms. Schiavo. Clearwater police later conclude that the marks might have been made by a device used to move Ms. Schiavo and, in any case, that no evidence of abuse or other wrongdoing could be found

May 6, 2004
Pinellas Circuit Judge W. Douglas Baird rules that "Terri's Law," sought and signed by Gov. Bush and approved by the Legislature on October 21, 2003, is unconstitutional. The governor appeals the ruling

August 31, 2004
The Florida Supreme Court hears oral arguments in the lawsuit over the
constitutionality of "Terri's Law."

September 23, 2004
Florida's Supreme Court, unanimously affirming the trial court order, declares "Terri's Law" unconstitutional

This is all I have time for now, sorry. Got to go out to pick up my g/f. Will amend later if needbe.

Visit the site for dozens of relevant links to the specific court cases.

Wow, the governor of Florida must be plagued with free time.

 

[Riprorin]

Originally posted by: Phokus

TALLAHASSEE, Florida (AP) -- Gov. Jeb Bush asked a prosecutor Friday to investigate why Terri Schiavo collapsed 15 years ago, calling into question how long it took her husband to call 911 after he found her.

In a letter faxed to Pinellas-Pasco County State Attorney Bernie McCabe, Bush said Michael Schiavo testified in a 1992 medical malpractice trial that he found his wife collapsed at 5 a.m., and he said in a 2003 television interview that he found her about 4:30 a.m. He called 911 at 5:40 a.m.

"Between 40 and 70 minutes elapsed before the call was made, and I am aware of no explanation for the delay," Bush wrote. "In light of this new information, I urge you to take a fresh look at this case without any preconceptions as to the outcome."

Michael Schiavo's attorney, George Felos, did not immediately return a telephone call seeking comment Friday from The Associated Press. In comments in The Miami Herald, he said Terri Schiavo would not have survived if her husband had not immediately called 911.

"It's absolutely preposterous," Felos said. "If he had waited 70 minutes she would have been dead."

Terri Schiavo died March 31 from dehydration after her feeding tube was disconnected at her husband's request, despite unsuccessful efforts by her parents, Bush and others to keep her alive.

An autopsy released Wednesday concluded that she had been in a persistent vegetative state and revealed no evidence that she was strangled or otherwise abused before she collapsed.

It left unanswered the question of why Terri Schiavo's heart stopped, cutting oxygen off from her brain. The autopsy showed she suffered irreversible brain damage and her brain had shrunk to half the normal size for her age.

HAY GUYS, lets ruin Michael Schiavo's life even further so Jeb can run for president! Absolutely disgusting. This goes beyond pandering to the religious right. THis is morally reprehensible.

http://www.cnn.com/2005/LAW/06/17/schiavo.governor.ap/index.html

Good maybe they'll get to the bottom of this.

She didn't collapse from a heart attack nor an eating disorder, so what happened?

 

[Sysbuilder05]

Originally posted by: cKGunslinger

Originally posted by: Sysbuilder05
Its simple,all those damn "killer Liberals" who wanted Schiavo to be able to honor his wifes wishes were RIGHT,and the RW religious nutcases were dead WRONG.

She was NEVER going to be rehabilited,her brain had shrunk to half its size. She was blind and there was ZERO trama to her brain. In short Michael Schiavo didn't do a DAMN THING to cause what happened to his wife. She did it HERSELF from trying to lose weight. Hell,lets see if we can't get Richard Carpenter up on charges,he must have KILLED Karen right??

Those facts PISS the RW zealots off to no end,they want Schiavo up on murder charges even if they have to trump some up. There so fu**king stupid they won't even accept the results from MEDICAL DOCTORS. Gawd...........

So.. what are you trying to say?

Thats the reason that Jeb Bush won't let this go. Even when medical science has shown that she was indeed brain dead,couldn't be rehabilated etc they want to some how place some blame somewhere other than Terri Schiavo. They were embarresed by the autopsy report after their month or more of chest pounding,speechs and legal action by Jeb,Pat Boone,Randal Terry and their radical religious nutcases. THE WOMAN WAS BRAIN DEAD!!

They soooo badly want to blame SOMETHING on Liberals but it isn't flying. They were made fools of and can't take the heat. Simple as that,but don't expect this to go away anytime soon.

 

[Sysbuilder05]

[/quote]

HAY GUYS, lets ruin Michael Schiavo's life even further so Jeb can run for president! Absolutely disgusting. This goes beyond pandering to the religious right. THis is morally reprehensible.

http://www.cnn.com/2005/LAW/06/17/schiavo.governor.ap/index.html[/quote]

Good maybe they'll get to the bottom of this.

She didn't collapse from a heart attack nor an eating disorder, so what happened?[/quote]

Uhh...could she have had a mild stroke? Could she have had early onset of diabiates? My brother in-law collasped and died at age 39 of a rare kidney disease that caused an anurism. People even at a young age collapse all the time,some live some die.

The bottom line is that there were no signs of trama caused by her husband beating her,strangling her blah blah... If he did and the 911 people didn't see the obvious marks 30-50 minutes later then they should be working at Walmart instead of being a first responder.

 

[ECUHITMAN]

Originally posted by: Riprorin

Originally posted by: Phokus

TALLAHASSEE, Florida (AP) -- Gov. Jeb Bush asked a prosecutor Friday to investigate why Terri Schiavo collapsed 15 years ago, calling into question how long it took her husband to call 911 after he found her.

In a letter faxed to Pinellas-Pasco County State Attorney Bernie McCabe, Bush said Michael Schiavo testified in a 1992 medical malpractice trial that he found his wife collapsed at 5 a.m., and he said in a 2003 television interview that he found her about 4:30 a.m. He called 911 at 5:40 a.m.

"Between 40 and 70 minutes elapsed before the call was made, and I am aware of no explanation for the delay," Bush wrote. "In light of this new information, I urge you to take a fresh look at this case without any preconceptions as to the outcome."

Michael Schiavo's attorney, George Felos, did not immediately return a telephone call seeking comment Friday from The Associated Press. In comments in The Miami Herald, he said Terri Schiavo would not have survived if her husband had not immediately called 911.

"It's absolutely preposterous," Felos said. "If he had waited 70 minutes she would have been dead."

Terri Schiavo died March 31 from dehydration after her feeding tube was disconnected at her husband's request, despite unsuccessful efforts by her parents, Bush and others to keep her alive.

An autopsy released Wednesday concluded that she had been in a persistent vegetative state and revealed no evidence that she was strangled or otherwise abused before she collapsed.

It left unanswered the question of why Terri Schiavo's heart stopped, cutting oxygen off from her brain. The autopsy showed she suffered irreversible brain damage and her brain had shrunk to half the normal size for her age.

HAY GUYS, lets ruin Michael Schiavo's life even further so Jeb can run for president! Absolutely disgusting. This goes beyond pandering to the religious right. THis is morally reprehensible.

http://www.cnn.com/2005/LAW/06/17/schiavo.governor.ap/index.html

Good maybe they'll get to the bottom of this.

She didn't collapse from a heart attack nor an eating disorder, so what happened?

Give it up Rip, we will never know. The ME did not say that there was an exact answer as to why she collapsed, but there was no sign of any abuse in any of her medical files, nor did the court find Michael at fault for anything. Had she died on the day she collapsed maybe then the autopsy would have found an exact cause, but considering all the years that the Religious Right kept her alive (against her wishes) the damage doing so will mask any true explanation for the collapse.

So if you want to point a finger at anyone, point it at the religious right. They are the reason why we will never know.

 

[TraumaRN]

I'd like to point out that people keep saying that she didnt have a heart attack, BUT she could have had a cardiac arrest, as there is a difference, with cardiac arrest being a heart stoppage and a heart attack being caused by a blockage in a coronary artery causing a lack of oxygen to the heart, also known as myocardial infarction.

And yes sudden cardiac arrest can affect anyone, and yes it could be caused by a potassium imbalance and no it wouldnt show up on an autopsy performed 15 years after the fact.

 

[dmcowen674]

Originally posted by: DeathBUA
I'd like to point out that people keep saying that she didnt have a heart attack, BUT she could have had a cardiac arrest, as there is a difference, with cardiac arrest being a heart stoppage and a heart attack being caused by a blockage in a coronary artery causing a lack of oxygen to the heart, also known as myocardial infarction.

And yes sudden cardiac arrest can affect anyone, and yes it could be caused by a potassium imbalance and no it wouldnt show up on an autopsy performed 15 years after the fact.

Otherwise known as cavitation in pump terms.

Pump is going like mad but no significant flow.

 

[TraumaRN]

Originally posted by: dmcowen674

Otherwise known as cavitation in pump terms.

Pump is going like mad but no significant flow.

Exactly

 

[Phokus]

Originally posted by: DonVito
I sent Gov Bush the following e-mail:

Dear Governor Bush:

I am writing to register my displeasure with your recent decision to open an investigation into the 911 call placed by Michael Schiavo following his wife Terri's collapse.

As an experienced criminal litigator who has prosecuted and defended dozens of felony cases, I find your actions in this instance unjustifiable, particularly in the context of the recent release of Mrs. Schiavo's autopsy results, which found no evidence of foul play.

It appears to me that, like your efforts to keep Mrs. Schiavo maintained on a feeding tube, you are using an intensely personal situation for personal political gain, and I can't think of too many lower things a politician can do. Mrs. Schiavo's collapse, and lapse into a coma and persistent vegetative state, have been exhaustively reviewed in court innumerable times, and we are at least several years removed from a time in which the investigation you suggest might conceivably have served any legitimate purpose.

The upshot is that Mrs. Schiavo is gone. Your efforts to pick at her bones for political gain cannot change this. You are continuing to cause unnecessary and pointless pain to her family, and I can't help but believe that the public will reject that, as it did the shameful machinations you, President Bush, and the United States Congress engaged in in order to keep Ms. Schiavo alive, against her own wishes and those of her next of kin. In that sense, I suspect the natural order of things will mean that you pay a price: your efforts will further jeopardize what was once a perfectly viable candidacy for President in 2008 or 2012.

You have a responsibility not to waste your state's time, energy and resources in an effort to further villify an innocent man, but you appear to feel political exigencies make that a desirable course of action. I think you're wrong, and suggest you call off the hounds. It's the right thing to do.

Very Respectfully,


[my name], Esq.

very well written! We should use this as a template and mass email jeb! 🙂 (well, except replacing your name and the litigator part)

 

[DealMonkey]

Well, if the autopsy doesn't reveal anything, what more can be done? Does Bush really think the State Attorney is going to find something new in this case nearly 15 years after the fact? Fat chance. Jeb seems a little too eager to beat the dead horse here, pun intended. Just let it go already.

 

[Zedtom]

This unending nightmare is representative of what is wrong with our country. Politicians get all wrapped up in a cause, and when things take a disappointing turn, they dig up more dirt.

 

[Jhhnn]

Other than dragging Mr Schiavo thru the mud, again, it's fine by me- let Jeb and his fellow fundie panderers reveal that they're an absurd caricature of political vision... Anytime they're seen to be running off a cliff, en masse, just get out of the way... the more foolishness, the greater the backlash. Lay On, I say, Lay On!

 

[ForThePeople]

Originally posted by: Riprorin

Good maybe they'll get to the bottom of this.

She didn't collapse from a heart attack nor an eating disorder, so what happened?

Seeing as to how I kind of beat on you in another thread I thought that I would take a minute to honestly answer your question.

In my medical opinion...

The term "heart attack" is very deceptive. Traditionally a heart attack is what we call an MI, or myocardial infarction, where the arteries that feed your heart are clogged by a clot. The heart muscle affected by the clot dies.

On the other hand you can develop other heart problems. The one that probably affected Terri is an electrolytic imbalance.

Your heart beats based on nerves. You have nerves on the inside of your heart. At the top of your heart, in your right atrium, you have a little collection of cells that automatically beat. You then have nerves that carry this signal - the signal says "beat now" - to the rest of the heart. In a normal, perfect heart the signal travels in a wave in a certain way that your heart beats effectively.

Now, because the signal is spread by nerves, if you disturb the nerves you can make the heart beat ineffectively. Nerves transmit a signal based on switching ions, and in the case of the heart it is a K (potassium) ion (I think all nerves use potassium but I don't want to say for certain).

The potassium is in your blood because potassium is an ion that likes to be in water. So if you mess up your bodies water system you can mess up your potassium level. If you do not have enough potassium your heart will not beat effectively.

So far simple enough, now on to Terri specifically...

It has been reported that she was bulimic. This would alter her potassium because it would leave her body in the water in her vomit. If you do this enough it would probably kill you by disrupting your heart.

It has also been reported that she drank an excessive amount of hot tea. Now, the hot part doesn't matter. But if she drank a lot of tea (meaning a lot of water) she effectively diluted the potassium in her body, which can disrupt your heart. I am skeptical of this because I can't imagine a person drinking enough water to do that (I would think like gallons a day, I'm not sure) but I can't say it definitely did not happen, weird sh*t happens in medicine all the time.

So what we would do is test her heart. We would look for 2 things: enzymes (which indicate damage from an MI, a clot that killed heart tissue) and her potassium level. Her enzymes were normal (no MI) but her potassium was very low.

Here is where it gets complicated. The paramedics gave her epi (adrenalin) - a lot of it - and epi can make your potassium levels look lower than they are. So because they gave her epi we don't know if her K was really low or not.

And we can never go back and re-take it so we can't ever know for certain. But the ER docs did give her more K and her K level was normal afterwards.

But we don't know. Something disrupted her K level but only Terri knows for sure.

 

[Riprorin]

Originally posted by: ForThePeople

Originally posted by: Riprorin

Good maybe they'll get to the bottom of this.

She didn't collapse from a heart attack nor an eating disorder, so what happened?

Seeing as to how I kind of beat on you in another thread I thought that I would take a minute to honestly answer your question.

In my medical opinion...

The term "heart attack" is very deceptive. Traditionally a heart attack is what we call an MI, or myocardial infarction, where the arteries that feed your heart are clogged by a clot. The heart muscle affected by the clot dies.

On the other hand you can develop other heart problems. The one that probably affected Terri is an electrolytic imbalance.

Your heart beats based on nerves. You have nerves on the inside of your heart. At the top of your heart, in your right atrium, you have a little collection of cells that automatically beat. You then have nerves that carry this signal - the signal says "beat now" - to the rest of the heart. In a normal, perfect heart the signal travels in a wave in a certain way that your heart beats effectively.

Now, because the signal is spread by nerves, if you disturb the nerves you can make the heart beat ineffectively. Nerves transmit a signal based on switching ions, and in the case of the heart it is a K (potassium) ion (I think all nerves use potassium but I don't want to say for certain).

The potassium is in your blood because potassium is an ion that likes to be in water. So if you mess up your bodies water system you can mess up your potassium level. If you do not have enough potassium your heart will not beat effectively.

So far simple enough, now on to Terri specifically...

It has been reported that she was bulimic. This would alter her potassium because it would leave her body in the water in her vomit. If you do this enough it would probably kill you by disrupting your heart.

It has also been reported that she drank an excessive amount of hot tea. Now, the hot part doesn't matter. But if she drank a lot of tea (meaning a lot of water) she effectively diluted the potassium in her body, which can disrupt your heart. I am skeptical of this because I can't imagine a person drinking enough water to do that (I would think like gallons a day, I'm not sure) but I can't say it definitely did not happen, weird sh*t happens in medicine all the time.

So what we would do is test her heart. We would look for 2 things: enzymes (which indicate damage from an MI, a clot that killed heart tissue) and her potassium level. Her enzymes were normal (no MI) but her potassium was very low.

Here is where it gets complicated. The paramedics gave her epi (adrenalin) - a lot of it - and epi can make your potassium levels look lower than they are. So because they gave her epi we don't know if her K was really low or not.

And we can never go back and re-take it so we can't ever know for certain. But the ER docs did give her more K and her K level was normal afterwards.

But we don't know. Something disrupted her K level but only Terri knows for sure.

Terri Schiavo collapsed under unknown circumstances in 1990. Michael Schiavo was awarded nearly $2 million in judgments and settlements in a medical malpractice lawsuit claiming that the collapse was caused by a heart attack triggered by a potassium imbalance, caused by an undiagnosed eating disorder, bulimia nervosa. Thogmartin challenged that determination.

"No one observed Mrs. Schiavo taking diet pills, binging and purging or consuming laxatives and she apparently never confessed to her family or friends about having an eating disorder," Thogmartin found. "Furthermore, many other signs of bulimia nervosa were not reported to be present."

Link

 

[ForThePeople]

Originally posted by: Riprorin
Terri Schiavo collapsed under unknown circumstances in 1990. Michael Schiavo was awarded nearly $2 million in judgments and settlements in a medical malpractice lawsuit claiming that the collapse was caused by a heart attack triggered by a potassium imbalance, caused by an undiagnosed eating disorder, bulimia nervosa. Thogmartin challenged that determination.

"No one observed Mrs. Schiavo taking diet pills, binging and purging or consuming laxatives and she apparently never confessed to her family or friends about having an eating disorder," Thogmartin found. "Furthermore, many other signs of bulimia nervosa were not reported to be present."

Link

I'm missing the point Rip. That's what I said... no one knows what happened.

What it underscores is the value of a medical history, basically interviewing the patient and trying to accurately understand how their disease developed. That is impossible with a patient who is in her condition - not awake or conscious enough to talk to you and answer your questions.

So all we can do is speculate. What caused her heart problem? Probably low potassium. What caused that? Only Terri knows and she ain't talking.

Oh, and don't use such an obviously partisan site. Get the real autopsy report online Real Terri Autopsy Report; actual text [non-biased

 

[TraumaRN]

Originally posted by: ForThePeople

Originally posted by: Riprorin
Terri Schiavo collapsed under unknown circumstances in 1990. Michael Schiavo was awarded nearly $2 million in judgments and settlements in a medical malpractice lawsuit claiming that the collapse was caused by a heart attack triggered by a potassium imbalance, caused by an undiagnosed eating disorder, bulimia nervosa. Thogmartin challenged that determination.

"No one observed Mrs. Schiavo taking diet pills, binging and purging or consuming laxatives and she apparently never confessed to her family or friends about having an eating disorder," Thogmartin found. "Furthermore, many other signs of bulimia nervosa were not reported to be present."

Link

I'm missing the point Rip. That's what I said... no one knows what happened.

What it underscores is the value of a medical history, basically interviewing the patient and trying to accurately understand how their disease developed. That is impossible with a patient who is in her condition - not awake or conscious enough to talk to you and answer your questions.

So all we can do is speculate. What caused her heart problem? Probably low potassium. What caused that? Only Terri knows and she ain't talking.

Oh, and don't use such an obviously partisan site. Get the real autopsy report online Real Terri Autopsy Report; actual text [non-biased

I completely agree with you ForThePeople, I'm a nursing student got a year to go so I've learned much about these things also, and you are right it's impossible to know what happened since she cant talk. And dont be so quick to stereotype Bulimia either, my current girlfriend is bulimic and she fits none of the stereotypes and no one in her family knew, at least until I figured it out, she's in treatment now Thank God, but bulimia undiagnosed could cause an electrolyte imbalance. And on the other hand it could have been something completely unknown to medicine.

 

[DealMonkey]

It's quite obvious what Rip is insinuating -- which is, that the husband had something to do with her collapse/medical issues.

 

[ECUHITMAN]

Originally posted by: DealMonkey
It's quite obvious what Rip is insinuating -- which is, that the husband had something to do with her collapse/medical issues.

Of course he is! In his world there is no way that a company could put a drug on the market that would harm anyone, so obviously Michael poisoned Terri and orchestrated this major crime to get $2 Million from the innocent company! :roll:

I had a friend that was in perfect health, no medical problems at all and she had a stroke when she was 22. The doctors had NO (ZERO, NILL, ZIP, NADA) explanation for why she had the stroke, but she did and now she is paralyzed on the left side of her body. Sometimes these things just happen.

Was it the diet pills? I have no idea, but the court seemed to think so, or else Terri would not have been awarded $2M and Michael would have been in jail.

Could it just have been random and not the diet pills? Just as likely. But who knows, and who cares. It was 15 years ago, the ME that did the autopsy couldn't tell what makes you like that Jeb Bush can?

 

[1EZduzit]

Originally posted by: Riprorin

Originally posted by: Phokus

TALLAHASSEE, Florida (AP) -- Gov. Jeb Bush asked a prosecutor Friday to investigate why Terri Schiavo collapsed 15 years ago, calling into question how long it took her husband to call 911 after he found her.

In a letter faxed to Pinellas-Pasco County State Attorney Bernie McCabe, Bush said Michael Schiavo testified in a 1992 medical malpractice trial that he found his wife collapsed at 5 a.m., and he said in a 2003 television interview that he found her about 4:30 a.m. He called 911 at 5:40 a.m.

"Between 40 and 70 minutes elapsed before the call was made, and I am aware of no explanation for the delay," Bush wrote. "In light of this new information, I urge you to take a fresh look at this case without any preconceptions as to the outcome."

Michael Schiavo's attorney, George Felos, did not immediately return a telephone call seeking comment Friday from The Associated Press. In comments in The Miami Herald, he said Terri Schiavo would not have survived if her husband had not immediately called 911.

"It's absolutely preposterous," Felos said. "If he had waited 70 minutes she would have been dead."

Terri Schiavo died March 31 from dehydration after her feeding tube was disconnected at her husband's request, despite unsuccessful efforts by her parents, Bush and others to keep her alive.

An autopsy released Wednesday concluded that she had been in a persistent vegetative state and revealed no evidence that she was strangled or otherwise abused before she collapsed.

It left unanswered the question of why Terri Schiavo's heart stopped, cutting oxygen off from her brain. The autopsy showed she suffered irreversible brain damage and her brain had shrunk to half the normal size for her age.

HAY GUYS, lets ruin Michael Schiavo's life even further so Jeb can run for president! Absolutely disgusting. This goes beyond pandering to the religious right. THis is morally reprehensible.

http://www.cnn.com/2005/LAW/06/17/schiavo.governor.ap/index.html

Good maybe they'll get to the bottom of this.

She didn't collapse from a heart attack nor an eating disorder, so what happened?

I thought you were on a first name basis with God, why don't you ask him??

 

[dmcowen674]

Originally posted by: 1EZduzit

Originally posted by: Riprorin

Originally posted by: Phokus

TALLAHASSEE, Florida (AP) -- Gov. Jeb Bush asked a prosecutor Friday to investigate why Terri Schiavo collapsed 15 years ago, calling into question how long it took her husband to call 911 after he found her.

In a letter faxed to Pinellas-Pasco County State Attorney Bernie McCabe, Bush said Michael Schiavo testified in a 1992 medical malpractice trial that he found his wife collapsed at 5 a.m., and he said in a 2003 television interview that he found her about 4:30 a.m. He called 911 at 5:40 a.m.

"Between 40 and 70 minutes elapsed before the call was made, and I am aware of no explanation for the delay," Bush wrote. "In light of this new information, I urge you to take a fresh look at this case without any preconceptions as to the outcome."

Michael Schiavo's attorney, George Felos, did not immediately return a telephone call seeking comment Friday from The Associated Press. In comments in The Miami Herald, he said Terri Schiavo would not have survived if her husband had not immediately called 911.

"It's absolutely preposterous," Felos said. "If he had waited 70 minutes she would have been dead."

Terri Schiavo died March 31 from dehydration after her feeding tube was disconnected at her husband's request, despite unsuccessful efforts by her parents, Bush and others to keep her alive.

An autopsy released Wednesday concluded that she had been in a persistent vegetative state and revealed no evidence that she was strangled or otherwise abused before she collapsed.

It left unanswered the question of why Terri Schiavo's heart stopped, cutting oxygen off from her brain. The autopsy showed she suffered irreversible brain damage and her brain had shrunk to half the normal size for her age.

HAY GUYS, lets ruin Michael Schiavo's life even further so Jeb can run for president! Absolutely disgusting. This goes beyond pandering to the religious right. THis is morally reprehensible.

http://www.cnn.com/2005/LAW/06/17/schiavo.governor.ap/index.html

Good maybe they'll get to the bottom of this.

She didn't collapse from a heart attack nor an eating disorder, so what happened?

I thought you were on a first name basis with God, why don't you ask him??

Bahahahahaha :laugh: :thumbsup:

 

[aidanjm]

Originally posted by: DeathBUA
I am wondering what he is trying to get at with this? Is it trying to ruin Schiavo's life further or political gain or what? After 15 years it's hard to find ANY evidence, medical or otherwise to do anything....i dunno....I just dont understand this at all, cant Terri just rest in peace??

He is doing it because the religious right represent the single most powerful bloc in the Republican party. He has to get their support, if he is going to get the Republican nomination for Presidency. (That is why someone like Guilliani or McCain will never be nominated - they are not sufficiently hardcore on the issues that matter to the religious right).

 

[dardin211]

It's pretty obvious that he is pissed in being proven wrong about the whole case to begin. That the husband and doctors were right. He appears to now be pulling a trick out of his brothers book, switching things around to try and change the focus after the fact.

George: We invaded Iraq to free the Iraqi people, not find WMD that posed a threat to the American people.

Jeb: This case wasn't about if Terri was brain dead or not, it was about how she was killed and if the husband had something to do with it.

 

[CaptnKirk]

From Florida's Village Idiot - Himself

<NY TIMES>

To the Editor:

The New York Times's grotesque and chilling disrespect for the sanctity of life has never been more apparent than in your June 16 editorial "Autopsy on the Schiavo Tragedy."

Terri Schiavo was a deeply loved daughter, wife, sister and friend. The fact that her brain was atrophied or that she was blind or could not have been rehabilitated doesn't change that fact.

While many medical professionals said she was in a persistent vegetative state, still other highly respected neurologists said there was a chance that she was not.

In cases where patients do not have an expressed written directive regarding end-of-life decisions and where the patient's guardian has a conflict of interest, it only makes sense to err on the side of life.

Terri's life and her death remind us all that life is fragile and must be valued.

Despite claims of cynicism and being "agenda-driven," we will continue to strive to protect our most vulnerable citizens. All innocent human life is precious, and government has a duty to protect the weak, the disabled and the vulnerable.

Jeb Bush
Governor
Tallahassee, Fla., June 17, 2005

 

[Phokus]

Originally posted by: CaptnKirk
From Florida's Village Idiot - Himself

<NY TIMES>

To the Editor:

The New York Times's grotesque and chilling disrespect for the sanctity of life has never been more apparent than in your June 16 editorial "Autopsy on the Schiavo Tragedy."

Terri Schiavo was a deeply loved daughter, wife, sister and friend. The fact that her brain was atrophied or that she was blind or could not have been rehabilitated doesn't change that fact.

While many medical professionals said she was in a persistent vegetative state, still other highly respected neurologists said there was a chance that she was not.

In cases where patients do not have an expressed written directive regarding end-of-life decisions and where the patient's guardian has a conflict of interest, it only makes sense to err on the side of life.

Terri's life and her death remind us all that life is fragile and must be valued.

Despite claims of cynicism and being "agenda-driven," we will continue to strive to protect our most vulnerable citizens. All innocent human life is precious, and government has a duty to protect the weak, the disabled and the vulnerable.

Jeb Bush
Governor
Tallahassee, Fla., June 17, 2005

CAN WE JUST SAW OFF FLORIDA AND LET IT FLOAT INTO THE ATLANTIC OCEAN? God i hate jeb bush!