JackBurton
Lifer
Best Buy prices:
Samsung 5271 = $3509.99
Sony 52" XBR4 = $3499.99
Pioneer 5010 (1080p) = $3999.99
I don't see a huge price discrepancy. That actually looks pretty damn competitive to me.
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"Japan's Pioneer to stop making plasma panels"
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Best Buy prices:
Samsung 5271 = $3509.99
Sony 52" XBR4 = $3499.99
Pioneer 5010 (1080p) = $3999.99
I don't see a huge price discrepancy. That actually looks pretty damn competitive to me.
You are comparing the high end which most people don;t buy.
Find me a a 1080p LCD and see if you can find a plasma for the same lowwer price. LCD is winning as they have 32" LCD's for less then $500 soemtimes now.
i have a 32", 37", and a 47" LCD. The 47" was $1099 and has a $100 gift card coming back from it. Find a plasma that is 1080p and 47" or larger for that price.
JackBurton
Lifer
Mercedes has the low end/high end and then they have the high end/high end. They don't compete in the junk market. Neither does Pioneer. Again, this is becoming a Wal-Mart world were quality is overlooked and price becomes the only factor. Yes you have the cheaper TV, however, you also have the crappier TV...by far.
Midnight Rambler
Diamond Member
And all those LCDs look like crap compared to even the lowliest Pioneer. Your argument(s) don't fly as you are basically saying/assuming there is little to no demand for high end. Most high end A/V dealers would not agree with you. And most people who have a desire for such are willing to pay extra for it.
DisgruntledVirus
Lifer
And the reason for that is because the Pioneer is building sets for the high end. They are not building low end sets to compete at that market. Sure you can buy your 47 inch 1080p (which is pointless IMO, but thats another topic), but then again you are looking for a good price. No offense but you are NOT the type of person the Kuro is marketed to, you want a cheap HDTV not a HDTV thats got awesome PQ with price as a secondary concern.
Before you say the Pioneer cannot compete with cheap LCD's you may want to think about the market segment they are targeting with their panel. Yes I could have bought a $1000 46" LCD, but I would buy my Kuro again in a second. No questions asked.
It's not just Pioneer, it's plasma in general. For whatever reason plasma manufacturers are not marketing sets as well as LCDs. I suspect it's because of margins. Plasma panels are more expensive to produce, bulkier and heavier which leads to higher transport fees. It's actually in manufacturers best interests for plasma to go away the same way (but not as badly) as it was for CRT to go away.
The good news is OLED will be viable by time Pioneer is out of the business, and there's all indications the technology puts Kuro to shame, in a thin package no less.
JackBurton
Lifer
And where do you get this information? Panasonic is doing quite well. Samsung I believe is doing fine too, but they play both sides of the fence (LCD & plasma).
Are you kidding my? You talk about "the average Joe" and you then bring up OLED? Seriously? Wal-Mart Joe isn't coming anywhere close to an OLED for a loooong time (I'd say at LEAST 5yrs +). Not to mention OLED has QUITE a few hurdles to overcome before they can even THINK about competing in Pioneer's market (50"+ high end HDTVs). OLED may not even pan out.
cliftonite
Diamond Member
You can get a 5010 for 3500 also.
cliftonite
Diamond Member
Those are all close enough to be negligible. Pioneer and Fujitsu do not the manufacturing facilities to reach a true economies of scale. Panasonic on the other hand has invested in new plants over the years (even have another one opening next year) and can produce these tvs at a much better rate.
I doubt plasma goes anywhere in the next 10 to 15 years.
cliftonite
Diamond Member
Agreed. The 11" Sony OLED is nearly 2 grand and they are supposedly loosing money on it. As LCD and Plasma technologies improve I doubt there will be any economic benefit for these new technologies to emerge (unless they are significantly cheaper to manufacture like OLEDs can be)
I doubt that Pioneer decided to flush down the millions in R&D to develop a O ire panel then get out Plasma biz. Having both companies collaberating on the 10G panel should make things interesting. Runco uses Panny 8G panels and I here nobody complaining about QC issues with them.
JackBurton
Lifer
And you'd be wrong. Do some reading and you'd understand why.
JackBurton
Lifer
Sony also has that little problem of figuring out how to get that little 11" $2K display to last longer than 4-5 yrs. 😉
I have. Samsung will have 42" panels in 2010:
http://www.engadget.com/2007/1...lays-out-oled-roadmap/
Sony's also investing $200M into accelerating OLED technology:
http://www.reuters.com/article...ws/idUST35031320080219
OLED is a threat to both PDP and LCD. Consumers will love the thinness of the panels, enthusiasts will love the contrast levels and black-as-possible blacks. It's a win-win.
http://www.reuters.com/article...ws/idUST35031320080219
OLED is a threat to both PDP and LCD. Consumers will love the thinness of the panels, enthusiasts will love the contrast levels and black-as-possible blacks. It's a win-win.
JackBurton
Lifer
Do some more reading. You said "viable alternative." Them just releasing a display doesn't make it viable. Do you remember when LCDs first hit the streets? Yes they were thin, but that was about it. They didn't become "viable" until years later. Hell, LCDs are still a maturing tech and they've only recently come close to plasma PQ. Same with OLED. They've got some SERIOUS kinks to workout in their tech. If they can get them worked out in under 5 years, FANTASTIC! But realistically, I don't see that happening. So don't hold your breath on OLED, it's gonna be awhile.
cliftonite
Diamond Member
Pioneer had a 9MM prototype at CES. They showed panels with "infinite" blacks. Videophiles who have seen the display said that you would not need to upgrade the TV anymore as it is nearly perfect.
cliftonite
Diamond Member
Anyone can layout roadmaps. If you believed Canon/Toshiba we would have Ferrari priced SED TVs by now...
Arkaign
Lifer
Apple is pushing into OLED tech as well, which is great. I've also heard that laser may be an option, but not much of a timeframe on that deal, but a working 65" Prototype was tested at the '08 CES.
Bottom line : Plasma and LCD are both pretty awful if you want to get technical, they both apparently look like smashed arseholes compared to OLED or Laser. We should be excited to move things forward so soon. If Plasma falls from the high end to be replaced by OLED and Laser, good riddance.
The sooner truly superior tech replaces old tech, and becomes affordable, the better.
Ideally, a good-size set with excellent quality should be under $1k. Look at PC monitors, it used to be $2k+ for a 21" CRT, now a 24" Wide LCD costs under $500. Adequate 22" are under $200.
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