Japanese War Museum: Fact or Fiction?

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Narmer

Diamond Member
Aug 27, 2006
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I think he can take the heat. What he can't take is some fuckstick trying to degrade his grandmother, and I don't blame him. You are stepping over the line trying to provoke him.

Fuck you and fuck him too. He's the one that insulted me in German. That was the point of that post. He insulted me and I insulted him right back. I don't know or care who is grandmother is, no one has a right to insult anyone else.
 

Narmer

Diamond Member
Aug 27, 2006
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So if an army barges into my town and rapes my mother, forces my father to fuck my pregnant sister, then uses my pregnant sister for bayonet practice and then buries them all alive, I should blame my government and not those soldiers for the atrocities?

You are so fucked in the head.

Yes, your first and main point of anger should be those who failed to protect you. The gov't will get its revenge but the people's anger should be directed at those they pay (via taxes) to defend them. If you are too stupid to understand this basis of government then you should get out of this thread.
 

irishScott

Lifer
Oct 10, 2006
21,562
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Could be a regional thing.

It is. Elementary school was like that, but when high school came around we learned about the Massacre at Wounded Knee, the Long March of the Cherokee and other such stuff. Granted this was the honors/AP track in a Northern Virginia high school (some of the best public schools in the nation).
 

Narmer

Diamond Member
Aug 27, 2006
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Got it. I'm glad you cleared up any uncertaintly of whether or not you were dumb as a pile of shit.

Thanks :thumbsup:

People like you are why government gets away with so much shit. Your vision of government is what you (supposedly) hate about individuals: no accountability or responsibility. lol, yet you are too dumb to see that, while your taxes are increasing, you want less and less to do with government. In the meantime others are sucking at its tits or exploiting it for all it's worth. But you complain loudly in places like this about your tax dollars feeding welfare (corporate or individual) whores. Whose the idiot, you or them?
 

Narmer

Diamond Member
Aug 27, 2006
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That post made no fucking sense. Wipe that foam off your mouth and try again.

It doesn't make sense to you? Figures cause you're too dumb to understand. Let me simplify it for you:

Nick1985: JHC, my taxes are going up. I pay too much taxes.
Nick1985: JHC, government is out of control and getting larger. I want nothing to do with this. I'm mad and I'm angry. I hate Big Government (TM).

Nick1985: (looks across the street). JHC, WTFBBQ, that unemployed mother of 8 just got a new plasma tv. WTFBBQ, that company just got its taxes lowered to zero. WTFBBQ, that invalid gets a monthly check from the SSA for life. Who's paying for all this shit?

Mother of 8, Company, Invalid (in unison): You are, Nick1985.
Nick1985: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sC75aU47GRk
 

werepossum

Elite Member
Jul 10, 2006
29,873
463
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So, I'm at work (Japanese public elementary school) and asked to borrow a 6th grade Social Studies textbook.

The last chapter covers the 'Long War' period as it's phrased in the book, 1931-1945.
My Japanese isn't great so I can't understand everything written contextually, but here's the exact Japanese text, the literal English translation, and my rough translation:


They explicitly acknowledge the army killed innocent women and children but don't go into detail about how, or how many. The last sentence gives the impression normal citizens didn't know of these events (implying a cover up by the army) but I've seen Japanese newspaper reports from that period about a beheading competition; so partially false.


Where have I heard that before?:( Pretty much straightforwardly saying that the brutality had the opposite effect of what was intended and the strategy of the army was misguided and wrong.


The next paragraph is a caption to a picture of kneeling, presumably surrendered, Chinese soldiers with Japanese officers reviewing the group on horseback.

I'm going to assume 'ring was enlarged' probably refers to the Japanese sphere of influence. The picture itself is tame, just people with not even a weapon visible.


Evidently, the issue of Nanking is addressed as early as 6th grade in my city. These students are 12-13 years old so I do have to give some leniency not to include graphic descriptions of the slaughter. Tomorrow, I work at a junior high school so I'll try to get a hold of a 3rd (9th) grade history textbook to see if more accurate details of the transgressions are given in upper grades.

That seems pretty reasonable to me, although they should do more to illustrate the magnitude of the slaughter. "Many" to me would not denote 250,000 to 300,000 slaughtered civilians in one single city. Our 12 year-olds are taught what we did to the Native Americans, but I don't know each event is quantified either, so I won't fault Japan for that.
 

dighn

Lifer
Aug 12, 2001
22,820
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Which Chinese government? While the Nationalists and the Communists "banded" together to fight against the Chinese, they often ended up back stabbing each other as well. Anyways yea that's a retarded argument.

I am aware that the Chinese government(s) did a piss poor job of protecting China and its citizens. They were definitely no saints.

If you, a civilian, is attacked by a foreign army, who do you blame? More specifically, who do you hold legally responsible, the foreign army or your government whose fundamental purpose is to defend the homeland? For you the answer may be obvious but it isn't.

When Al Qaeda attacked on September 11, 2001, a lot of the victims (or their families) took the federal government to court and won (or reached a settlement) because it failed in its basic duties.

Who do I blame? The invaders of course. While I may feel my own government failed to protect me and thus share some of the responsibility, it is asinine to suggest that responsibility is greater or even close to that of the ones who invaded and committed atrocities. Did the Americans directed all their anger at their own government and just forget about Al Qaeda? No they went to war over it.

Anyway looks like you are just going to continue to downplay and deflect the arguments, because for some reason you just don't seem to want to admit what Japan did was wrong no matter what. Though I gotta say trying to pin responsibility on the victims is pathetic. I hope no one wastes any more time on you.
 

Vonkhan

Diamond Member
Feb 27, 2003
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The Japanese pro-rated the crimes of the Chinese upon the Tibetan people and paid them in advance.
 

Narmer

Diamond Member
Aug 27, 2006
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I am aware that the Chinese government(s) did a piss poor job of protecting China and its citizens. They were definitely no saints.



Who do I blame? The invaders of course. While I may feel my own government failed to protect me and thus share some of the responsibility, it is asinine to suggest that responsibility is greater or even close to that of the ones who invaded and committed atrocities. Did the Americans directed all their anger at their own government and just forget about Al Qaeda? No they went to war over it.

Anyway looks like you are just going to continue to downplay and deflect the arguments, because for some reason you just don't seem to want to admit what Japan did was wrong no matter what. Though I gotta say trying to pin responsibility on the victims is pathetic. I hope no one wastes any more time on you.

WRT, 9/11, the government channeled public anger and went to war, then they exploited it by starting another way and letting the original war languish until we want to have nothing to do with it anymore. Funny how that works, right? If the people had kept their anger mostly on the government I'm sure we would've had better results.

Sorry if you see it as a deflection but, to me, defense of the homeland is an extremely basic tenet of government. If you cannot do it, you should not exist.
 

nick1985

Lifer
Dec 29, 2002
27,153
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It doesn't make sense to you? Figures cause you're too dumb to understand. Let me simplify it for you:

Nick1985: JHC, my taxes are going up. I pay too much taxes.
Nick1985: JHC, government is out of control and getting larger. I want nothing to do with this. I'm mad and I'm angry. I hate Big Government (TM).

Nick1985: (looks across the street). JHC, WTFBBQ, that unemployed mother of 8 just got a new plasma tv. WTFBBQ, that company just got its taxes lowered to zero. WTFBBQ, that invalid gets a monthly check from the SSA for life. Who's paying for all this shit?

Mother of 8, Company, Invalid (in unison): You are, Nick1985.
Nick1985: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sC75aU47GRk


Nope, you dont make a lick of sense. This thread was about you apologizing for the Japanese for the Rape of Nanking, now you are trying to spin it into an attack on what you percieve to be my views on government size? How the fuck did we get from the Rape of Nanking to the size of government and tax rates?

Again, wipe off the foam fuckhead.
 

nick1985

Lifer
Dec 29, 2002
27,153
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Sorry if you see it as a deflection but, to me, defense of the homeland is an extremely basic tenet of government. If you cannot do it, you should not exist.

Should Kuwait not exist? Should Georgia not exist? How about 99% of countries that couldn't thwart an attack from a major power, should they all not exist?

What a silly fucking argument. Try again
 

Narmer

Diamond Member
Aug 27, 2006
5,292
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Should Kuwait not exist? Should Georgia not exist? How about 99% of countries that couldn't thwart an attack from a major power, should they all not exist?

What a silly fucking argument. Try again

You are really an idiot if you think countries have a "right" to exist. When nations go to war, it is to change the power structure. In some cases, certain countries cease to exist. This has happened throughout history and it will continue to happen. I'm surprised I have to explain these basic things to you. Did you get left behind in elementary school or something?

My other post was to point out the fact that you don't feel government is (or should be) responsible for certain basic things, like defending the homeland. Again, this is an extremely basic tenet of government yet you do not feel that it is responsible for doing that. Instead, you blame the invaders. Tell me, if your home is invaded do you not feel responsible to defend your family? If you fail will you put all the blame at the foot of the criminals or will you take responsibility for your impotence?
 
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nick1985

Lifer
Dec 29, 2002
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So you dodged my question and reverted to name calling me again. I didn't expect any less
 

CanOWorms

Lifer
Jul 3, 2001
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So you claim the Japanese government apologizes for Nanking, I prove you are full of shit, then you change the subject completely and start talking about something else?

Is that how you debate?

No, apparently it is how you debate. I said that the Japanese have made several government apologies for their activities. I made no mention of the specific city in my post.

Even if I mentioned Nanjing in my post, the list of statements I posted should still be applicable as many of them are broad to cover all of their activities.
 

CanOWorms

Lifer
Jul 3, 2001
12,404
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Soo because Korea's GDP grew it was ok for the Japanese to take all of the women and force them to be comfort women for the Japanese Army. Something that Japan still denies by saying it was not significant?

No, I'm comparing the Japanese vs. British. Just because the British were much worse than the Japanese doesn't mean that the Japanese are excused.

Im not defending the British in anyway but you cant compare them in that manner. The imperialist nations all fucked over whoever they tried to control, in all differing ways.

They're difficult to compare, but you can look at many factors. Hundreds of millions, perhaps even billions, were slaughtered throughout centuries by the British. The Japanese had a very limited period of devastation, only decades. Much of the Japanese activity has little effect today. Much of the British activity still causes serious worldwide issues.
 

Howard

Lifer
Oct 14, 1999
47,982
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Thanks for the more neutral link but it is not an impartial source. Are the archives from the military tribunal online?
The question is, what would be an acceptable source? Your question does not imply that the tribunal's findings are worthwhile to you, so there is no point in digging further and we can accept that you have already finalized all decisions, cases closed.
 

Toonces

Golden Member
Feb 5, 2000
1,690
0
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Eh, I don't know if I should spend the hour or so today to translate a new textbook.

Will anyone care, or has this devolved into personal insults and inflammatory rhetoric?
 

Infohawk

Lifer
Jan 12, 2002
17,844
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Migration, trade, etc.

The Japanese were much more isolationist later into their history. Europeans were not.

Throughout history there's been a lot of migration and trade in the middle-east, but you don't seem to think they're as evil. Is there some other cause for European evil? Or am I misunderstanding?
 

CanOWorms

Lifer
Jul 3, 2001
12,404
2
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Throughout history there's been a lot of migration and trade in the middle-east, but you don't seem to think they're as evil. Is there some other cause for European evil? Or am I misunderstanding?

I thought you were asking why they brought their evil around the world. Many Middle Eastern societies have done the same, but they were subjugated by European powers over the century or so.
 

Infohawk

Lifer
Jan 12, 2002
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I thought you were asking why they brought their evil around the world. Many Middle Eastern societies have done the same, but they were subjugated by European powers over the century or so.

No, I'm asking why, over history, Europeans have been more evil than everyone else.
 

KMFJD

Lifer
Aug 11, 2005
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No, I'm asking why, over history, Europeans have been more evil than everyone else.

I'm not so sure that's true, Mongols sure made a mess of the world when they where the major power, same could be said about early Muslim expansion....Persian expansion, etc etc