Japanese War Museum: Fact or Fiction?

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alphatarget1

Diamond Member
Dec 9, 2001
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I think JS80 is Korean so he's not very fond of the Japanese. Every now and then he and MJinz, who is Chinese, start calling each other "beloved patriot" and "beloved patriot". He's a piece of work:rolleyes:.

By the way, Thailand also has a similar phallus festival. I assumed it was a Buddhist thing.

Yeah, fuck you. My grandmother is Chinese who lived under Japanese occupation. You can shove your Japanese kissing face up your apologist ass.
 

Narmer

Diamond Member
Aug 27, 2006
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ahhh, so it all comes out. You should blame the Chinese government at the time for failing to protect her. Or, she should be mad at the people that promised but failed to protect her, not the invading army. Other than that, this changes nothing wrt what I said earlier about the occupation.
 

Narmer

Diamond Member
Aug 27, 2006
5,292
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Deine Mutter ist eine japanische Schlampe :)

I knew you had it in you. I won't reciprocate with a personal insult though. Have a good night and remember to protect your family (cause if you don't, as the head of the household, it'll be all your fault when the wild beasts come for replenishment).
 
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wirelessenabled

Platinum Member
Feb 5, 2001
2,190
41
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Ah yes, you are so smart. You can see all sides of the story, your intelligence is too great. Do you refuse to criticize Nazi Germany for concentration camps as well? Afterall, there are 2 sides to a story.


Also, how do you feel about the Japanese "comfort women"

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V-UwU1-RVWs&feature=related


Not going to come against them on that either I suppose? There are 2 sides afterall...

Lighten up NickD:

Where is it written that you have the one path to the Truth.

You come across as an ignorant know it all wannabee to me.

Why don't you tell what you believe and let others do the same without your snide remarks.
 

Toonces

Golden Member
Feb 5, 2000
1,690
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So, I'm at work (Japanese public elementary school) and asked to borrow a 6th grade Social Studies textbook.

The last chapter covers the 'Long War' period as it's phrased in the book, 1931-1945.
My Japanese isn't great so I can't understand everything written contextually, but here's the exact Japanese text, the literal English translation, and my rough translation:

首都ナンキン(南京)を占領したとき、武器を捨てた兵士や、女性や子どもをふくむ多くの中国人が殺害された。このことは、日本の国民に知らされなかった。

When I occupied capital Nanjing (Nanjing), many Chinese who included a soldier and a woman and the child who threw away a weapon were killed. I was not informed of this to the Japanese nation.

During the occupation of Nanjing, many Chinese soldiers, women, and children were killed even after surrendering. Normal Japanese citizens were not informed of this.
They explicitly acknowledge the army killed innocent women and children but don't go into detail about how, or how many. The last sentence gives the impression normal citizens didn't know of these events (implying a cover up by the army) but I've seen Japanese newspaper reports from that period about a beheading competition; so partially false.

日本は、首都のナンキンを占領されば、早く戦争が終わると考えていた。しかし、中国人々は、日本の侵略に対して抵抗を強め、戦争は、日本の予想をこえて長く続いた。

If occupation left Nanjing of the capital, Japan thought that war was over early. However, the Chinese people strengthened resistance for Japanese aggression and the war could ask for Japanese expectation and I had a long it and continued.

The occupation of Nanjing was supposed to bring about a swift resolution to the war. However, it only strengthened the resolve of the Chinese people against Japanese aggression and extended the length of the war far beyond Japanese expectations.
Where have I heard that before?:( Pretty much straightforwardly saying that the brutality had the opposite effect of what was intended and the strategy of the army was misguided and wrong.


The next paragraph is a caption to a picture of kneeling, presumably surrendered, Chinese soldiers with Japanese officers reviewing the group on horseback.
南京を占領する日本軍.
中国にたくさんの兵士が派遣され、戦いの場は広げられていました。

The Japanese armed forces which occupy Nanjing.
A lot of soldiers were dispatched in China, and the ring was enlarged.
I'm going to assume 'ring was enlarged' probably refers to the Japanese sphere of influence. The picture itself is tame, just people with not even a weapon visible.


Evidently, the issue of Nanking is addressed as early as 6th grade in my city. These students are 12-13 years old so I do have to give some leniency not to include graphic descriptions of the slaughter. Tomorrow, I work at a junior high school so I'll try to get a hold of a 3rd (9th) grade history textbook to see if more accurate details of the transgressions are given in upper grades.
 

alphatarget1

Diamond Member
Dec 9, 2001
5,710
0
76
ahhh, so it all comes out. You should blame the Chinese government at the time for failing to protect her. Or, she should be mad at the people that promised but failed to protect her, not the invading army. Other than that, this changes nothing wrt what I said earlier about the occupation.

America nuked Japan :)
 

alphatarget1

Diamond Member
Dec 9, 2001
5,710
0
76
So, I'm at work (Japanese public elementary school) and asked to borrow a 6th grade Social Studies textbook.

The last chapter covers the 'Long War' period as it's phrased in the book, 1931-1945.
My Japanese isn't great so I can't understand everything written contextually, but here's the exact Japanese text, the literal English translation, and my rough translation:


They explicitly acknowledge the army killed innocent women and children but don't go into detail about how, or how many. The last sentence gives the impression normal citizens didn't know of these events (implying a cover up by the army) but I've seen Japanese newspaper reports from that period about a beheading competition; so partially false.


Where have I heard that before?:( Pretty much straightforwardly saying that the brutality had the opposite effect of what was intended and the strategy of the army was misguided and wrong.


The next paragraph is a caption to a picture of kneeling, presumably surrendered, Chinese soldiers with Japanese officers reviewing the group on horseback.

I'm going to assume 'ring was enlarged' probably refers to the Japanese sphere of influence. The picture itself is tame, just people with not even a weapon visible.


Evidently, the issue of Nanking is addressed as early as 6th grade in my city. These students are 12-13 years old so I do have to give some leniency not to include graphic descriptions of the slaughter. Tomorrow, I work at a junior high school so I'll try to get a hold of a 3rd (9th) grade history textbook to see if more accurate details of the transgressions are given in upper grades.

Thanks for the valuable insight. I apologize as I've gotten too carried away with the rhetoric at times. I think for 6th graders the history textbooks are fine for describing what happened, provided their teachers don't avoid them.

Look, I have a good friend who has a Japanese wife, I'm not going to wish death upon her. To foreigners who demand recognizion and reparations from the Japanese government and didn't get anything, of course they're gonna get pissed off.
 

alphatarget1

Diamond Member
Dec 9, 2001
5,710
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Yeah, and it saved a lot of lives (even though most Japanese don't want to hear that). BTW, was your grandmother a comfort woman? Did they do a train on her?

My grandmother was in Shanghai AFAIK and supposedly the occupying troops didn't do much, at least she didn't talk about it.

I just laugh when I hear about right wing Japanese complain about getting nuked was illegal or whatever.

My German friend and I had a length discussion about Japanese avoidance of the topic. He mentioned that Germany is right next to their neighbors and *had* to come to terms and apologize what they did, whereas Japan is an isolated bunch of islands that could kind of ignore what happened, where it be they were embarrassed, or they just think that what they did was no big deal. It's probably a combination of both from different people.

A friend of mine in Hawaii has a grandmother who was in one of the small Pacific islands when they got invaded, and they hate the Japanese too.

I probably should not have escalated my comments to the level of personal insults. Nevertheless, I find your denial of the rape of Nanking, the deferral to "crappy Chinese recordkeeping", and the white washing of Japanese atrocities highly offensive. The Rape of Nanking is well documented by foreigners (Westerners) who were in Nanking at the time. If you think what happened was okay, seriously, go fuck yourself.
 
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Narmer

Diamond Member
Aug 27, 2006
5,292
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My grandmother was in Shanghai AFAIK and supposedly the occupying troops didn't do much, at least she didn't talk about it.

Well, I suggest you ask her the tough, hard-hitting questions that you are asking of others but are too lazy to research yourself. Ask her if she was in that video Nick1985 posted of "comfort women".
 

alphatarget1

Diamond Member
Dec 9, 2001
5,710
0
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Well, I suggest you ask her the tough, hard-hitting questions that you are asking of others but are too lazy to research yourself. Ask her if she was in that video Nick1985 posted of "comfort women".

Go fuck yourself Narmer. Actually, since you are so fond of Japanese culture, you should go fuck your mom, because that's what the Imperial Japanese army likes to see.
 
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Narmer

Diamond Member
Aug 27, 2006
5,292
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Go fuck yourself Narmer.

If you can't stand the heat...

Seriously, you have a lot of hate in your heart for something that did not even happen to you. The Japan of today is not the Japan of WWII. The Japan you hate is dead and gone. Let us all learn from the past and move on.
 

dawheat

Diamond Member
Sep 14, 2000
3,132
93
91
Most of the deflections seem to come from the argument that what Japan did to China and Korea historically isn't the worst systematic murder/abuse/torture that a country has ever done. Therefore since they're not the only ones with this history, it's not fair to be too hard on them unless you equally condemn those other countries as well.

I have to say that if all atrocities have to be measured against the absolute worst atrocities in history to have any context, it's a sad day for humanity.

Are we not to be outraged by a person who murders one person in cold blood b/c hey, other people have murdered people, some more than once and more brutally?

I think what continues to bother other asian countries is that many Japanese either want to diminish the severity of their actions (citing historical practices, practices of other countries, etc) or try to share the blame with the occupied people (they fought back and brought it on themselves, etc). True remorse is to accept responsibility without conditions or caveats - something asia still waits for.
 

dighn

Lifer
Aug 12, 2001
22,820
4
81
ahhh, so it all comes out. You should blame the Chinese government at the time for failing to protect her. Or, she should be mad at the people that promised but failed to protect her, not the invading army. Other than that, this changes nothing wrt what I said earlier about the occupation.

How in the world is the defender more at fault than the aggressor? Do you seriously believe this drivel? If so then you are beyond reason and there is no point in arguing with you.
 
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AznAnarchy99

Lifer
Dec 6, 2004
14,695
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Do you seriously believe this drivel? If so then you are beyond reason and there is no point in arguing with you.

Which Chinese government? While the Nationalists and the Communists "banded" together to fight against the Chinese, they often ended up back stabbing each other as well. Anyways yea that's a retarded argument.

And let me add in Japan's Unit 731, the Japanese version of the Nazi human experimentation. Although the United States decided to prosecute the Nazis, they decided to grant immunity to the top officials operating Unit 731 for exchange for the research that the Japanese gained. Most of those "doctors" and military officials lived their lives freely and continued to practice even in the United States.

Of course, read any US high school history book and a lot of shit is left out. As someone said it might be by region, but here in CA, there was about a paragraph talking about the Native Americans and slavery was written in such a light that made it seem like "our" United States was never apart of it and it was only the evil Confederates. I wish I could get a history book from a high school in the South just to see what it says.
 

AznAnarchy99

Lifer
Dec 6, 2004
14,695
117
106
Their government has made dozens of apologies regarding their activities during WW2. The world is still waiting for most European countries to even make some sort of official apology. The last significant apology was Germany and the Herero, and it took years to wrangle it out of them.

In addition, many Japanese lack knowledge on the historical issues. They don't celebrate (the atrocities), deny, or alter it like many Europeans do. Their activity was also confined to decades rather than centuries such as in the case with European activity. It should be a much bigger component of European studies.

The magnitude of the atrocities are so different. Korea's GDP actually grew during Japanese slavery. What happened to countries under British barbarism? Everything decreased, even life expectancy. Life expectancy decreased from the 1700s to the 1900s! Seems harsh.

Soo because Korea's GDP grew it was ok for the Japanese to take all of the women and force them to be comfort women for the Japanese Army. Something that Japan still denies by saying it was not significant?

Im not defending the British in anyway but you cant compare them in that manner. The imperialist nations all fucked over whoever they tried to control, in all differing ways.
 

Narmer

Diamond Member
Aug 27, 2006
5,292
0
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How in the world is the defender more at fault than the aggressor? Do you seriously believe this drivel? If so then you are beyond reason and there is no point in arguing with you.

If you, a civilian, is attacked by a foreign army, who do you blame? More specifically, who do you hold legally responsible, the foreign army or your government whose fundamental purpose is to defend the homeland? For you the answer may be obvious but it isn't.

When Al Qaeda attacked on September 11, 2001, a lot of the victims (or their families) took the federal government to court and won (or reached a settlement) because it failed in its basic duties.
 

nick1985

Lifer
Dec 29, 2002
27,153
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If you, a civilian, is attacked by a foreign army, who do you blame? More specifically, who do you hold legally responsible, the foreign army or your government whose fundamental purpose is to defend the homeland? For you the answer may be obvious but it isn't.


So if an army barges into my town and rapes my mother, forces my father to fuck my pregnant sister, then uses my pregnant sister for bayonet practice and then buries them all alive, I should blame my government and not those soldiers for the atrocities?

You are so fucked in the head.
 

nick1985

Lifer
Dec 29, 2002
27,153
6
81
If you can't stand the heat...

I think he can take the heat. What he can't take is some fuckstick trying to degrade his grandmother, and I don't blame him. You are stepping over the line trying to provoke him.