Jane Doe v. Abbott

[kitkat22]

@cscpianoman don’t admit you’re a Repugnican.

Very much democrat - voted for obama and biden - I know right. really going to see minds blow now. Transgender, Christian, Democrat

 

[Captante]

I don't know what the process is, and quite honestly, I don't care. It's become a fad, we're experimenting on our own children and my guess is it's not going to end well.
I can't imagine why anyone would do this to their child. I'm incapable of understanding the mindset behind it.

Pre-pubescent children who are too young to have any real idea what they're doing or what a healthy sexual-identity even is I completely agree.

A 16 year-old (or thereabouts depending on the teen) on the other hand should be able to mostly make their own decisions on this kind of thing.

Approx 12 years old IS the age where kids start to have a real say about legal stuff in court but there's a good reason they're still partially treated like the immature children they are overall.

 

[Paratus]

I don't know what the process is, and quite honestly, I don't care. It's become a fad, we're experimenting on our own children and my guess is it's not going to end well.
I can't imagine why anyone would do this to their child. I'm incapable of understanding the mindset behind it.

Have you ever had a family member suffer from some sort of mental distress that actually needed medical treatment or therapy?

 

[Captante]

Have you ever had a family member suffer from some sort of mental distress that actually needed medical treatment or therapy?

Sadly yes.

My only on-topic concern as I mentioned would be parents with an agenda of their own doing something to kids who are too young to understand the long-term repercussions. (and IMO 12 is still too young for anything irreversible)

And sadly YES not only are there lots of people with an "agenda" of some kind out there ... some of them even graduate from medical school.

 

[kitkat22]

I don't know what the process is, and quite honestly, I don't care. It's become a fad, we're experimenting on our own children and my guess is it's not going to end well.
I can't imagine why anyone would do this to their child. I'm incapable of understanding the mindset behind it.

Then why are you commenting on this? You exclaim you don't care and incapable of understanding it. If you aren't going to try then back off. Easy as that.

I won't disagree with you that there is a social movement behind some, not all of this. There is plenty of research to support treating children this way and the primary goals of treatment are to minimize interventions when they are young because research supports there are many kids with gender dysphoria that it does go away as they get older. But there are some, including me, where it does not go away. Turns out I have a genetic condition that mucks up the metabolism of my sex hormones. I knew I was different by 8 years old
(30+ years ago), refused to accept it for years and now here I am fully transitioned woman.

The least you can do and say is, "I don't understand it, but I recognize it is a problem. I hope the people who are capable of researching and caring for these children, including parents, continue to try to learn and teach and maybe one day I will understand it."

 

[kitkat22]

Sadly yes.

My only on-topic concern as I mentioned would be parents with an agenda of their own doing something to kids who are too young to understand the long-term repercussions. (and IMO 12 is still too young for anything irreversible)

And sadly YES not only are there lots of people with an "agenda" of some kind out there ... some of them even graduate from medical school.

Are you familiar with the process this has to go through to get approved? It's not perfect but it is way better than most plans I have seen. Start by reading the WPATH guidelines. I have and any provider who does gender affirming care will go by these guidelines too. The decision to treat gender dysphoria is not a unilateral decision by a doctor. Nor is it by a solitary psychologist. There are absolutely no surgical recommendations made to any child whatsoever before they are at the age of consent. Treatments are intended to be reversible before age 16 and consideration for partially reversible treatments from age 16-18.

It takes 2 letters from different psychologists over a period of time to assist in confirming the diagnosis. It then takes a physician to agree. I had to do the same thing when I was in my 30s before starting hormone therapy. It took the same efforts to have any surgeries.

My wife's sister's child claims to have gender dysphoria and has been going to psychologists for years. Guess what? they are not on treatment because they believe there are other issues that may be causing them to claim gender dysphoria. Likely an autism spectrum disorder vs anxiety. They are not on hormone blockers or any treatment because there are people who are trying to what's best for children including saying "no" if the treatment is not appropriate.

I do agree there is a "fad" and "social movement" but you to realize there are legitimate cases that do exist. It's our job as medical providers to sift through those who need it and those who don't and that includes fighting back against parents with an agenda.

 

[Captante]

Are you familiar with the process this has to go through to get approved? It's not perfect but it is way better than most plans I have seen. Start by reading the WPATH guidelines. I have and any provider who does gender affirming care will go by these guidelines too. The decision to treat gender dysphoria is not a unilateral decision by a doctor. Nor is it by a solitary psychologist. There are absolutely no surgical recommendations made to any child whatsoever before they are at the age of consent. Treatments are intended to be reversible before age 16 and consideration for partially reversible treatments from age 16-18.

It takes 2 letters from different psychologists over a period of time to assist in confirming the diagnosis. It then takes a physician to agree. I had to do the same thing when I was in my 30s before starting hormone therapy. It took the same efforts to have any surgeries.

My wife's sister's child claims to have gender dysphoria and has been going to psychologists for years. Guess what? they are not on treatment because they believe there are other issues that may be causing them to claim gender dysphoria. Likely an autism spectrum disorder vs anxiety. They are not on hormone blockers or any treatment because there are people who are trying to what's best for children including saying "no" if the treatment is not appropriate.

I do agree there is a "fad" and "social movement" but you to realize there are legitimate cases that do exist. It's our job as medical providers to sift through those who need it and those who don't and that includes fighting back against parents with an agenda.

Up until reading your post I was not familiar with the process involved (as I stated earlier in this thread) so I appreciate the clear explanation.

 

[kitkat22]

Up until reading your post I was not familiar with the process involved (as I stated earlier in this thread) so I appreciate the clear explanation.

I agree it shouldn't be an easy process and there should be multiple steps along the way from various providers and shouldn't fall on just one person to make that call because these are hard decisions to make. (That was a run on sentence....)

What shouldn't be done is say transgender individuals do not exist or their condition is just mental. As I said above, mine turns out to be abnormal sex hormone metabolism through problems with cholesterol. It wasn't apparent at birth and I can't say I have an intersex condition but I do have a genetic cause for me being who I am.

There will likely be many who are similar to me. Genetic conditions we don't understand yet because it simply hasn't been researched. That's why we should not blanket judge people by appearance because there is a lot more going on internally than we think.