Jahi McMath - just let her (body) die already.

[Retro Rob]

Of course he believes that. As he also claimed that Jesus will bring him a miracle. That was his rationale, anyway.

it does scary things to people.

Not quite what I meant -- I was more saying that a man has a much easier time emotionally divorcing himself from a situation than a woman does.

That's what it would take...someone to remove themselves emotionally in order to have a more objective and realistic view of the situation.

 

[TheVrolok]

She's been declared legally dead. I would think there are already laws on the books protecting corpses from this type of desecration?

 

[TheVrolok]

because there is nothing minor about the actual surgeries that were performed, or the condition of the girl as a candidate for such surgery.

Not just that .. but it's completely irrelevant now .. she's dead.

 

[zinfamous]

Not quite what I meant -- I was more saying that a man has a much easier time emotionally divorcing himself from a situation than a woman does.

That's what it would take...someone to remove themselves emotionally in order to have a more objective and realistic view of the situation.

I hate to think horrible things about them as people, honestly I do--the situation is terrible for them.


But I absolutely do see dollar signs flashing on their eye lids every time I see their faces on the news, and that same photo of their very dead daughter.
I haven't seen any one of the family in the last week, crying, or appear that they have been crying over their daughter--I know, grief is weird for everyone, but...please.

Thing is, death from complicated surgery is not new. brain death is not new. there is always a risk. Physicians--and you know hospitals and their insurers--will go to great lengths to inform you of this. This is an abnormal reaction (the family lawyering up) to an event that is more common than people actually know.

 

[Ryan]

First time I've heard any of this. Damn the media.

Yeah, the surgery was anything but minor. I know, because I had the exact one earlier this year. She didn't just have her tonsils taken out - she had a uvuloplasty, which cut her uvula off. She also had part of her palate removed and a sinoplasty IIRC.

I was kept in the hospital overnight. The first thing the doctor said to me BEFORE I went under the knife was to remember that any bleeding during the first 24 hours would require a trip back to the emergency room. The wounds would have to be re-cauterized to stop the flow because they most likely would not clot on their own. They also said you can also lose a large amount of blood very quickly. It was incredibly painful and recovery was pretty long. It's not so bad for children because the area tends to recover much faster the younger a patient is....but I was out of work and on bed rest for two solid weeks. I cycled through 2+ pints of liquid lortab elixer in the process.

Imagine not being able to swallow your own spit or simply cough to clear your throat....due to the pain and fear that you're going to reopen your wounds. You're not able to eat or do much of anything. So when people say is was just a "simple and routine" surgery, they couldn't be farther from the truth.

 

[sourn]

Agreed.

The medical field needs to retire the term "brain dead" because it seems to imply she is still "alive" somehow.

Secondly, as a man, I could not believe the father(?), IIRC, looked into the cameras with a straight face and said he's looking for her to "come home" with a full-recovery.

I don't really think he believes that.

It's his damn daughter of course he believes it. He probably can't believe anything else right now.

While I do think they should let her go.

Until you have to make the decision to remove YOUR kid from life support maybe you should just keep your mouth shut and try to understand just how hard that decision would be (which hopefully none of us ever have to make).

 

[Retro Rob]

Until you have to make the decision to remove YOUR kid from life support maybe you should just keep your mouth shut and try to understand just how hard that decision would be (which hopefully none of us ever have to make).

That dude KNOWS his daughter is dead...he just isn't ready to ACCEPT that fact.

I lost my youngest sister, so I know, to a small degree perhaps, what he is going through.

However, one needs to face the reality that confronts them.

 

[LegendKiller]

It's his damn daughter of course he believes it. He probably can't believe anything else right now.

While I do think they should let her go.

Until you have to make the decision to remove YOUR kid from life support maybe you should just keep your mouth shut and try to understand just how hard that decision would be (which hopefully none of us ever have to make).

I saw my best friend "die" in front of me when he was hit by a car, one that I saw, but the one he didn't and turned his bike in to. His parents kept him on life support for 3-4 days and then pulled the plug. I was 14 at the time. 21 years later I do not disagree with their decision one iota. Their son was dead. My best friend was dead. He would never ride bike, fish, play Nintendo, with me ever again. I even knew that at that age.

These people need to realize there is no coming back from this.

 

[Jaepheth]

She's dead.
Muscle memory can keep limbs reacting to stimuli as long as there's a connection to a bit of the spinal cord. (If I'm remembering correctly)

It's an expensive pet, and some people are going to see it as undignified, but since it's not husband vs family (a la Schiavo) no one's getting hurt keeping the body breathing. I wouldn't expect any insurance company to pay for it though.

If the family wants to keep the body alive on their own dime; so be it, not hurting anyone.

 

[theeedude]

Looks like the girl is black. Republicans could claim this is a result of an Obamacare death panel trying to kill a poor minority girl

Between this and the other thread, it seems you just can't help yourself being happy with people's suffering, especially poor and/or minority people.

 

[Slew Foot]

Are they paying for it? If so, then be my guest

 

[Fanatical Meat]

I couldn't imagine any insurance private or state paying for somebody declared dead. I bet its minimal care and her body is at home. Maybe this is the families chance to grieve.

 

[Wreckem]

To me it doesn't sound like there was any malpractice by the Dr's in the actual surgery. Post surgery bleeding is a common complication for that procedure. As pointed out that complication requires going back under to fix the bleed. That said, if the families scenario is true, the hospital might(but not the Drs) be negligent because their ICU nurses didn't react in the appropriate manner.

That said we only have the family's side. The hospital can't/won't comment. But there are reports of the girl and family being non compliant with post surgery instructions(no talking, no eating).

I know the original news stories sensationalized their stories with reporting the girl fearing she wouldn't wake up from surgery. She was awake and fine for an unspecified amount of time. The family won't say how long, and the hospital can't.

 

[Wreckem]

I couldn't imagine any insurance private or state paying for somebody declared dead. I bet its minimal care and her body is at home. Maybe this is the families chance to grieve.

Insurance nor the govt will not pay a dime for any expense after Dec. 12, 2013, the date she was declared dead, the date listed on her death certificate.

The family does however have ~$50k from donations and there are "medical" facilities that have the ethics to take a dead body to make a buck.

Further, IMHO, no expense incurred keeping her on life support after she was declared dead on December 12 should be included in damages if the facility is proven to be negligent. If anything those amounts should be deducted from any judgement/settlement.

 

[Wreckem]

She's dead.
Muscle memory can keep limbs reacting to stimuli as long as there's a connection to a bit of the spinal cord. (If I'm remembering correctly)

It's an expensive pet, and some people are going to see it as undignified, but since it's not husband vs family (a la Schiavo) no one's getting hurt keeping the body breathing. I wouldn't expect any insurance company to pay for it though.

If the family wants to keep the body alive on their own dime; so be it, not hurting anyone.

Even if they pay for it(which they aren't), they are hurting someone who could use those resources that are being given to a dead body. Medical resources are limited.

She was in an ICU room taking up needed space, resources, and labor, for over 3 weeks. Now shes taking up space in a long term care facility that could go to someone else that may actually have a chance of recovering.

This should NEVER be allowed to happen.

 

[Jaepheth]

Even if they pay for it(which they aren't), they are hurting someone who could use those resources that are being given to a dead body. Medical resources are limited.

She was in an ICU room taking up needed space, resources, and labor, for over 3 weeks. Now shes taking up space in a long term care facility that could go to someone else that may actually have a chance of recovering.

That's an excellent point I hadn't considered.

In that case:
•If she can breathe on her own send her home.
•I doubt she can, so the plug needs to be pulled as soon as someone else needs the machine or bed space.
•Family needs to decide whether or not to donate organs to save others' lives. (I think that's always the better way to honor the dead)

 

[Wreckem]

That's an excellent point I hadn't considered.

In that case:
•If she can breathe on her own send her home.
•I doubt she can, so the plug needs to be pulled as soon as someone else needs the machine or bed space.
•Family needs to decide whether or not to donate organs to save others' lives. (I think that's always the better way to honor the dead)

All tests show her brain has not had blood flow to it since December 12. Her brain is dead and in the process of decaying. Brain death means nothing else works without mechanical help. Even on mechanical support the rest of her body will eventually stop functioning because of toxicity related to her brain decaying.

They are way past the point of being able to donate the organs.

 

[Jaepheth]

All tests show her brain has not had blood flow to it since December 12. Her brain is dead and in the process of decaying. Brain death means nothing else works without mechanical help. Even on mechanical support the rest of her body will eventually stop functioning because of toxicity related to her brain decaying.

They are way past the point of being able to donate the organs.

Interesting. I assumed the non-brain organs would still be alive enough to use.

Well, in that case I can only recommend one more course of action via game quote:

It is every citizen's final duty to go into the tanks and become one with all the people.

Chairman Sheng-ji Yang
"Ethics for Tomorrow"

 

[SheHateMe]

Be careful, suggesting that she be removed from life support could be considered racist.

Don't be such a tool..

Looks like the girl is black. Republicans could claim this is a result of an Obamacare death panel trying to kill a poor minority girl

I love how anything on AT can be made into a joke with a political spin on it. Nothing is off limits, including dead kids.

 

[Wreckem]

Interesting. I assumed the non-brain organs would still be alive enough to use.

Well, in that case I can only recommend one more course of action via game quote:

They are alive but how much damage did they receive when she went into cardiac arrest that resulted in her brain death? How much damage did they receive over the past 3-4 weeks since her brain death?

 

[nehalem256]

I love how anything on AT can be made into a joke with a political spin on it. Nothing is off limits, including dead kids.

Given that the liberal agenda is based on using LIVING kids as hostages I fail to say why making a joke about a dead kid is going too far.

 

[zinfamous]

Given that the liberal agenda is based on using LIVING kids as hostages I fail to say why making a joke about a dead kid is going too far.

yes, yes, please continue with that thought process...

 

[peonyu]

To me it doesn't sound like there was any malpractice by the Dr's in the actual surgery. Post surgery bleeding is a common complication for that procedure. As pointed out that complication requires going back under to fix the bleed. That said, if the families scenario is true, the hospital might(but not the Drs) be negligent because their ICU nurses didn't react in the appropriate manner.

That said we only have the family's side. The hospital can't/won't comment. But there are reports of the girl and family being non compliant with post surgery instructions(no talking, no eating).

I know the original news stories sensationalized their stories with reporting the girl fearing she wouldn't wake up from surgery. She was awake and fine for an unspecified amount of time. The family won't say how long, and the hospital can't.

One of the first stories that came out [the mom's side of the story btw] said that a nurse handed the girl a cup so that her blood didnt get everywhere on the bed, and after a minute or two the cup was overflowing with blood. It took 5 minutes for a doctor to show up, if thats true then its definitely negligence. I think they will make a lawsuit and they will probably win some money from it. But I could be wrong, no one knows what went on there really, and the longer the girl is not given a autopsy the greater the chance that her injuries will be obscured or healed over.

 

[chowderhead]

Insurance nor the govt will not pay a dime for any expense after Dec. 12, 2013, the date she was declared dead, the date listed on her death certificate.

The family does however have ~$50k from donations and there are "medical" facilities that have the ethics to take a dead body to make a buck.

Further, IMHO, no expense incurred keeping her on life support after she was declared dead on December 12 should be included in damages if the facility is proven to be negligent. If anything those amounts should be deducted from any judgement/settlement.

California caps medical malpractice, noneconomic damages at 250k i.e. pain and suffering, etc.

 

[Fanatical Meat]

I couldn't imagine any insurance private or state paying for somebody declared dead. I bet its minimal care and her body is at home. Maybe this is the families chance to grieve.

Well I was partially right but mostly wrong. Appears she is recieving treatment somewhere else. Poor girl.

http://news.msn.com/us/brain-dead-calif-teen-undergoes-surgery