• We’re currently investigating an issue related to the forum theme and styling that is impacting page layout and visual formatting. The problem has been identified, and we are actively working on a resolution. There is no impact to user data or functionality, this is strictly a front-end display issue. We’ll post an update once the fix has been deployed. Thanks for your patience while we get this sorted.

Jack Straw "shouldn't be allowed to comment" on muslim issues

amddude

amddude

Golden Member
link

More muslim silencing of critics? It's called free speech, I guess maybe the UK had less than I thought. I think it's also worth noting the problems muslims from north africa have with integration problems in general, as we have seen in other EU countries such as France.

ELEANOR HALL: In the UK the former British Foreign Secretary, Jack Straw has shocked many of Britain's 1.8 million Muslims by re-opening a debate about the wearing of the Muslim headdress or hijab. He's called on Islamic women to remove their veils when meeting with their MP's, saying the traditional garb can make relations between different communities more difficult. But while the comments have sparked outrage from many Muslims, the Muslim Council of Britain has said it does understand why the veil may make Mr Straw feel uncomfortable. This report from Europe Correspondent Rafael Epstein.

RAFAEL EPSTEIN: In Australia Liberal backbenchers pushed for a ban on Muslim girls wearing headscarves in public schools. And it's an issue that resonates in Britain as well. The latest contribution comes from Jack Straw. The former Foreign Secretary says when Islamic women with a hijab that covers their face come to his electorate office, he asks if they could consider removing it.

JACK STRAW: This is an issue that needs to be discussed, because in our society we are able to relate particularly to strangers by being able to read their faces, and if you can't read people's faces, that does provide some separation. What I'm saying on the other side is, would those people who do wear the veil think about the implications for community relations.

RAFAEL EPSTEIN: Muslim women with their faces fully covered are not an unusual sight on the streets of Britain's bigger cities. Huleema Hussein from the Muslim Public Affairs Committee was scathing in her response.

HULEEMA HUSSEIN: Well, I think Jack Straw's suggestions are completely laughable, they should be dismissed completely out of hand. To suggest that if the woman removed the veil, we'll have community cohesion, it's a complete joke. He shouldn't be allowed to comment on these kind of issues, this is a Muslim issue. If women want to cover their face, it's an issue for themselves.

RAFAEL EPSTEIN: Debate about the veil, Islamic issues generally and terrorist violence are issues that are often blended together. And overnight there was another uproar over Muslims in public life. A Muslim police officer who'd volunteered for the diplomatic protection unit, was assigned for a two hour shift to stand outside the Israeli embassy in London, during the August conflict with Lebanon. Because he has relatives in Lebanon he requested to be excused from duty. The Sun newspaper, which broke the story has described it as a Cop Out. And its angered some police unions, like the Superintendents Association and its president Rick Naylor.

RICK NAYLOR: We're hearing words about justifying a moral dilemma, a moral dilemma for guarding an embassy? You provide a police service to the public, irrespective of race, creed, religion, sex, or sexual preference. If you can't do that, surely you leave.

RAFAEL EPSTEIN: Senior Jewish figures say it's a grave error, that officers have a moral obligation to protect everyone. Scotland Yard's Deputy Commissioner is Paul Stevenson.

PAUL STEVENSON: This is not about political correctness, what this instance was really about was an officer doing what we want officers to do, you know. That is, where they've got a concern of how they can carry out their duties, coming forward, raising it honestly and openly, on the base of a risk assessment, temporarily, he did other duties. That's about risk assessment.

RAFAEL EPSTEIN: There are more than a few different groups claiming to represent Britain's Muslims, and they have a variety of responses ranging from quiet work behind closed doors through to headline grabbing advocacy in one of Europe's most diverse communities.
Click to expand...
 
Torn on this issue, sometimes I'm for removal, sometimes against. In many ways this is like forcing the Amish to use Autos or Electricity.
 
It's worth noting that the "integration problems" in EU countries come from, in no small part, the unwillingness of EU countries to accept immigrants. Granted, it's a two way street, but this idea that the EU countries (especially France) share none of the blame for "integration problems" is silly.
 
Originally posted by: amddude
More muslim silencing of critics? It's called free speech
Click to expand...

You must have missed the following sentence in the text you quoted:
He shouldn't be allowed to comment on these kind of issues, this is a Muslim issue.
Click to expand...

Yep; she was all for free speech when she said that.

Here's a quote I posted in another thread, from Europeans Have Stopped Defending Their Values:
SPIEGEL: When something insults Muslims, we often tend to just back off -- doesn't this help defuse the conflict?

Tibi: No. That is simply giving up. And the weaker the partner is viewed by the Muslims, then the greater the anger which they express. And this anger is often carefully staged. The argument over the cartoons for example was completely orchestrated. Nothing was spontaneous. A lot of people don't know if Denmark is a country or a cheese. Where did they get the Danish flags? Protests like these are weapons in this war of ideas. Or take another example: The president of the Iranian parliament was visiting Belgium where he had an appointment with a female Belgian colleague. He refused to shake her hand, so she didn't meet with him. He left Belgium and accused her of racism. The accusation of cultural insensitivity is a weapon. And we have to neutralize it.
Click to expand...

I might be crazy, but I don't think you can get integrated when you're hiding your face, unless you're going to advocate that everyone else should adjust to you.
 
Originally posted by: dna
Originally posted by: amddude
More muslim silencing of critics? It's called free speech
Click to expand...

You must have missed the following sentence in the text you quoted:
He shouldn't be allowed to comment on these kind of issues, this is a Muslim issue.
Click to expand...

Yep; she was all for free speech when she said that.

Here's a quote I posted in another thread, from Europeans Have Stopped Defending Their Values:
SPIEGEL: When something insults Muslims, we often tend to just back off -- doesn't this help defuse the conflict?

Tibi: No. That is simply giving up. And the weaker the partner is viewed by the Muslims, then the greater the anger which they express. And this anger is often carefully staged. The argument over the cartoons for example was completely orchestrated. Nothing was spontaneous. A lot of people don't know if Denmark is a country or a cheese. Where did they get the Danish flags? Protests like these are weapons in this war of ideas. Or take another example: The president of the Iranian parliament was visiting Belgium where he had an appointment with a female Belgian colleague. He refused to shake her hand, so she didn't meet with him. He left Belgium and accused her of racism. The accusation of cultural insensitivity is a weapon. And we have to neutralize it.
Click to expand...

I might be crazy, but I don't think you can get integrated when you're hiding your face, unless you're going to advocate that everyone else should adjust to you.
Click to expand...

That is exactly what strict Muslim immigrants to Europe advocate and that is what Europe is doing, and will continue to do. Simply because the Muslim immigrants have stronger wills and beliefs than Christian or secular Europeans.
 
"It's worth noting that the "integration problems" in EU countries come from, in no small part, the unwillingness of EU countries to accept immigrants. Granted, it's a two way street, but this idea that the EU countries (especially France) share none of the blame for "integration problems" is silly."

Well, the UK willingly accepts immigrants and yet they are facing a more insidious threat than the EU countries from Muslims. And, I might add, only Muslims.
 
Originally posted by: Rainsford
It's worth noting that the "integration problems" in EU countries come from, in no small part, the unwillingness of EU countries to accept immigrants. Granted, it's a two way street, but this idea that the EU countries (especially France) share none of the blame for "integration problems" is silly.
Click to expand...

Well, I'd say that for countries who are "unwilling to accept immigrants", the EU countries have plenty of them, don't you think?

 
Originally posted by: SamurAchzar
Originally posted by: Rainsford
It's worth noting that the "integration problems" in EU countries come from, in no small part, the unwillingness of EU countries to accept immigrants. Granted, it's a two way street, but this idea that the EU countries (especially France) share none of the blame for "integration problems" is silly.
Click to expand...

Well, I'd say that for countries who are "unwilling to accept immigrants", the EU countries have plenty of them, don't you think?
Click to expand...

"Accepting" is more complex than allowing. Europeans are used to closed societies where a homogeneous Culture exists, but at the same time they know they need more citizens for demographic reasons. So they allow Immigration. Unfortunetly they are having problems accepting the differences that Immigrants bring with them. The same happens in North America, but North Americans are somewhat used to Immigrants being different and are more accepting of them and have learned to adapt their Culture(s) accordingly.
 
And if that lady wanted to, she should have the right to tell him "NO". If she is willingly wearing a full head dress, or just a scarf to cover her hair (the latter is by far the most practiced version - but we make it seem like the former is what occurs) then she should NOT have to take it off.
 
"And if that lady wanted to, she should have the right to tell him "NO". If she is willingly wearing a full head dress, or just a scarf to cover her hair (the latter is by far the most practiced version - but we make it seem like the former is what occurs) then she should NOT have to take it off."

Then expect to be discriminated against and last in line when interacting with the rest of society. More importantly, "DON'T WHINE ABOUT IT". It was your choice.

 
Discriminating because someone is different is absolutely stupid and something we were taught to never do as children.
I agree it happens, and its wrong, but we should be MINIMIZING that...
 
Originally posted by: magomago
And if that lady wanted to, she should have the right to tell him "NO". If she is willingly wearing a full head dress, or just a scarf to cover her hair (the latter is by far the most practiced version - but we make it seem like the former is what occurs) then she should NOT have to take it off.
Click to expand...

Who said anything about not having a choice? Straw brought the issue up because he thinks people speak better with their faces exposed, and wanted to request that if female (or ninja) constituents wanted to show their faces.

Of course this is being spun among the Islamists as an example of intolerance and lurid Jack Straw forcing Muslim women to shame themselves. Maybe the women will be honor killed and Britain won't have an immigrant integration problem anymore.
 
"Discriminating because someone is different is absolutely stupid and something we were taught to never do as children.
I agree it happens, and its wrong, but we should be MINIMIZING that... "

All you are doing is throwing the letter of the right at someone who is complaining about how the spirit of the right is being abused. A white woman would be discriminated in the same way if she decides to come to a meeting in a bonnet and an apron or a similar attire from the middle ages.
 
But.. but.. Bondage to my religion is beautiful.. I like being forced to have a relationship with the God and forced to pray 6 times a day when a bell rings like a cow coming in from pasture
 
There is no way to please the islamic fundamentalists, well no way to without adopting all of thier beliefs. Muslims need to wake up and join the world. Free speech means someone will be offended now and then, if no one is offended, then you are not doing it right. And the europeans never learn, they are repeating the nazi's did, just this time it is the muslims.
 
For Muslims, free speech and freedom of action is to stick to the ritualistic world while enjoying the fruits of societies which rejected it a long time ago.
 
Originally posted by: tvarad
"And if that lady wanted to, she should have the right to tell him "NO". If she is willingly wearing a full head dress, or just a scarf to cover her hair (the latter is by far the most practiced version - but we make it seem like the former is what occurs) then she should NOT have to take it off."

Then expect to be discriminated against and last in line when interacting with the rest of society. More importantly, "DON'T WHINE ABOUT IT". It was your choice.
Click to expand...

IMO, for something like official identification, women SHOULD be required to remove any head coverings. What is the point of an official ID if you can't be identified by the picture on it?
 
Maybe it is worth pointing out that many muslim organizations here in the UK have WELCOMED the debatte, which does not neccesarily mean that they agree with HOW Straw started it (he could have expressed himself in a better way).

Now, the only problem with moderate muslims is that you can't sell newspapers or attract viewers if you report what they say; even if they happen to represent the majority (which they do in this); BBC has been reporting what the moderates are saying but the rags (tabloids) are doing their best to dig up the extreme views as usual and unfortunately the tabloids do have a lot of influence.

It is also worth noting that the veil is NOT a traditional muslim headdress, it has of course been used for a long time but its use used to be connected to culture/ethinicity, not religion. As far as I remember the "connection" between Islam and the veil as very recent; it became popular in Afghanistan around 1900 (members the king's harem started wearing it). In fact the veil is MORE popular now than it was just a few years ago.
 
Any ADMINS around here?

I posted the last message on the previous page, yet the system misidentified me as Masque.

I think you have some serious bug in the system.
 
Originally posted by: dahunan
But.. but.. Bondage to my religion is beautiful.. I like being forced to have a relationship with the God and forced to pray 6 times a day when a bell rings like a cow coming in from pasture
Click to expand...

Your image of muslims is completely warped by the media and extreme measures taken by a very small percentage of muslim "extremists".
Shouldnt people be bonded to religion? Isn't the purpose of religion to become closer to god spiritually? Praying is a way to do that.
P.S its praying 5 times a day, not 6. Your completely ignorant post shows you have absolutely no idea what your talking about, try to look at 99% of the religion instead of the 1% that does idiot acts that ends up on the news.
 
Originally posted by: brownzilla786
Originally posted by: dahunan
But.. but.. Bondage to my religion is beautiful.. I like being forced to have a relationship with the God and forced to pray 6 times a day when a bell rings like a cow coming in from pasture
Click to expand...

Your image of muslims is completely warped by the media and extreme measures taken by a very small percentage of muslim "extremists".
Shouldnt people be bonded to religion? Isn't the purpose of religion to become closer to god spiritually? Praying is a way to do that.
P.S its praying 5 times a day, not 6. Your completely ignorant post shows you have absolutely no idea what your talking about, try to look at 99% of the religion instead of the 1% that does idiot acts that ends up on the news.
Click to expand...

Man this is a Kick 😀
 
You must log in or register to reply here.

TRENDING THREADS

Back
Top