I've realized the real problem with America.

[ric1287]

Originally posted by: Amused

Originally posted by: ric1287

Originally posted by: Amused

Originally posted by: ric1287

Originally posted by: Amused

Originally posted by: Xavier434

Originally posted by: Amused
The real problem with America is everyone is so damn comfortable, even our poorest, that we are always looking for problems to fix. Rather than focusing on bettering ourselves we focus on the shortcomings of others and think we can fix them.

Sadly, the majority think that laws, regulations and limitations on freedoms will fix things.

I disagree. I think most people care more about bettering their situation rather than working on bettering someone else's situation. Most people look out for themselves first.

This includes those who are constantly fighting for freedom and liberty. They care about freedom, but they will prioritize the freedoms that benefit themselves first before they care about the freedoms that benefit others and this is especially true when you are dealing with freedoms which conflict with other freedoms.

Really? Then why are people so up in arms over obesity? Smoking? Drug use? Gays? Abortion?

Perfect example: In thread after thread on this forum that deals with obesity, we see people overly and irrationally offended by the obesity of others and proposing "fat taxes" and banning junk foods/fast foods.

The political buzz issues of the day are things that really affect but a small minority, yet the left and the right waste an inordinate amount of time on these issues because people are so emotional about them.

People are FAR too worried about what other people are doing, and what other people have.

The only freedom that would conflict with another is that which directly harms another. All of those are already illegal. They have been since the founding of this country. We are now taking away freedoms because people are offended, "cost to society," "for your own good," or better yet, class envy.

The problem with America is exactly as I stated. We are so comfortable we can't seem to mind our own fscking business anymore. Everytime someone sees something that offends them or shocks them, the first thought in their head is "there ought to be a law."

I'm not personally offended by fatties or druggies....but I don't think they should be allowed to do whatever they want if it has a negative impact on normal people.

Define "negative impact."

How is someone eating or drugging themselves to a fault going to "negatively impact" you?

If you can show me a crackhead who is legally obtaining the money needed to fund his habbit, then fine. But chances are, if your the type of person willing to inject poisen into your body, your also the type of person who doesn't mind stealing/killing/etc from normal people.

And fatties can be as simple as taking up too much space on public transit or on the other end, sucking more tax dollars and increasing health care costs.

The very illegality of drugs is what causes crime.

When was the last time you heard of liquor dealers doing drive bys on each other? When was the last time you heard of drunks killing people for booze?

As for your "cost to society" argument pertaining to fat people: GOTCHYA! Now you understand why socialism is anathema to freedom. You seek to limit the freedoms/actions of others because you fear you'll have to pay for it. A very slippery slope... as sooner or later, all assumed risk will be outlawed because of "cost to society." When you want society to pay, society becomes your parent.

In short, druggies and fatties don't bother YOU at all. They do not impact your life one bit... until, of course, you seek to insert yourself into their lives that is.

MYOB. It's really that easy.

Wrongo.

Alcholol is a drug that can, and in most cases, is "consumed in moderation". Crack/heroine/etc on the other hand, is not. People don't go out with some buddies from work to shoot up some heroine. And there are far more druggies that obtain their fund through illegal measures, you cannot argue that one bit. There arent many heroine addicts working a 9-5 downtown.

And like I said about fatties, them taking up 5 seats on a bus or train is physically impacting me. And there is no reason why my tax/insurance dollars need to go to people who freely choose to suck at health. So yes, they do bother me.

So no, I will not "MYOB" when the scum of society ruin it for the rest of us. And if you are one of the believers in "but, but, if drugs were all legal, we'd all be one happy family" then you're out of your fucking mind anyway.

edit--- and I'm not condoning abusing alcohol, just stating that it is far less likely to abuse alcohol to have the same impact as abusing bad drugs.

 

[Amused]

Originally posted by: ric1287

Originally posted by: Amused

Originally posted by: ric1287

Originally posted by: Amused

Originally posted by: ric1287

Originally posted by: Amused

Originally posted by: Xavier434

Originally posted by: Amused
The real problem with America is everyone is so damn comfortable, even our poorest, that we are always looking for problems to fix. Rather than focusing on bettering ourselves we focus on the shortcomings of others and think we can fix them.

Sadly, the majority think that laws, regulations and limitations on freedoms will fix things.

I disagree. I think most people care more about bettering their situation rather than working on bettering someone else's situation. Most people look out for themselves first.

This includes those who are constantly fighting for freedom and liberty. They care about freedom, but they will prioritize the freedoms that benefit themselves first before they care about the freedoms that benefit others and this is especially true when you are dealing with freedoms which conflict with other freedoms.

Really? Then why are people so up in arms over obesity? Smoking? Drug use? Gays? Abortion?

Perfect example: In thread after thread on this forum that deals with obesity, we see people overly and irrationally offended by the obesity of others and proposing "fat taxes" and banning junk foods/fast foods.

The political buzz issues of the day are things that really affect but a small minority, yet the left and the right waste an inordinate amount of time on these issues because people are so emotional about them.

People are FAR too worried about what other people are doing, and what other people have.

The only freedom that would conflict with another is that which directly harms another. All of those are already illegal. They have been since the founding of this country. We are now taking away freedoms because people are offended, "cost to society," "for your own good," or better yet, class envy.

The problem with America is exactly as I stated. We are so comfortable we can't seem to mind our own fscking business anymore. Everytime someone sees something that offends them or shocks them, the first thought in their head is "there ought to be a law."

I'm not personally offended by fatties or druggies....but I don't think they should be allowed to do whatever they want if it has a negative impact on normal people.

Define "negative impact."

How is someone eating or drugging themselves to a fault going to "negatively impact" you?

If you can show me a crackhead who is legally obtaining the money needed to fund his habbit, then fine. But chances are, if your the type of person willing to inject poisen into your body, your also the type of person who doesn't mind stealing/killing/etc from normal people.

And fatties can be as simple as taking up too much space on public transit or on the other end, sucking more tax dollars and increasing health care costs.

The very illegality of drugs is what causes crime.

When was the last time you heard of liquor dealers doing drive bys on each other? When was the last time you heard of drunks killing people for booze?

As for your "cost to society" argument pertaining to fat people: GOTCHYA! Now you understand why socialism is anathema to freedom. You seek to limit the freedoms/actions of others because you fear you'll have to pay for it. A very slippery slope... as sooner or later, all assumed risk will be outlawed because of "cost to society." When you want society to pay, society becomes your parent.

In short, druggies and fatties don't bother YOU at all. They do not impact your life one bit... until, of course, you seek to insert yourself into their lives that is.

MYOB. It's really that easy.

Wrongo.

Alcholol is a drug that can, and in most cases, is "consumed in moderation". Crack/heroine/etc on the other hand, is not. People don't go out with some buddies from work to shoot up some heroine. And there are far more druggies that obtain their fund through illegal measures, you cannot argue that one bit. There arent many heroine addicts working a 9-5 downtown.

And like I said about fatties, them taking up 5 seats on a bus or train is physically impacting me. And there is no reason why my tax/insurance dollars need to go to people who freely choose to suck at health. So yes, they do bother me.

So no, I will not "MYOB" when the scum of society ruin it for the rest of us. And if you are one of the believers in "but, but, if drugs were all legal, we'd all be one happy family" then you're out of your fucking mind anyway.

edit--- and I'm not condoning abusing alcohol, just stating that it is far less likely to abuse alcohol to have the same impact as abusing bad drugs.

50 plus years of enforcement. 30 plus years of a war on drugs. Millions of non-violent drug offenders locked up in prisons.

What have we gained? Are drug abuse rates lower? Has supply diminished?

Nope, not one bit. Yet gangs and criminal organizations have become rich and vastly more dangerous. They commonly victimize innocent people. They run entire neighborhoods on fear and violence

What gives them that power? The drug trade.

There will ALWAYS be addicts. Even the most oppressive countries on earth have not been able to slow the rate of drug abuse.

Making drugs illegal does NOTHING to stop abuse, and only empowers criminals.

We should have learned this lesson with Prohibition, but unfortunately, we did not.

If someone wants to destroy their life with drugs or alcohol, who are we to stop them?

You can toss insults all day long and try to belittle me for these facts, but you cannot dispute these facts. Nations that have decriminalized drugs and focused on treatment rather than enforcement have seen crime plummet along with abuse rates.

As fo fatties, who cares? Are you honestly so put out by them? How is a fat person taking up two seats different than a woman and child doing the same? Why do you fscking care anyhow?

Your attitude is exactly what I'm talking about. As soon as a person's freedom annoys you the slightest little bit, you seek to limit their freedom... even though they have done no harm to you.

 

[Chaotic42]

Originally posted by: Amused
If someone wants to destroy their life with drugs or alcohol, who are we to stop them?

So long as they legally waive any and all rights to any form of government assistance (or are forcefully deprived of those rights), I have no problem with letting them ruin themselves.

 

[spidey07]

Originally posted by: ric1287

Wrongo.

Alcholol is a drug that can, and in most cases, is "consumed in moderation". Crack/heroine/etc on the other hand, is not. People don't go out with some buddies from work to shoot up some heroine. And there are far more druggies that obtain their fund through illegal measures, you cannot argue that one bit. There arent many heroine addicts working a 9-5 downtown.

And like I said about fatties, them taking up 5 seats on a bus or train is physically impacting me. And there is no reason why my tax/insurance dollars need to go to people who freely choose to suck at health. So yes, they do bother me.

So no, I will not "MYOB" when the scum of society ruin it for the rest of us. And if you are one of the believers in "but, but, if drugs were all legal, we'd all be one happy family" then you're out of your fucking mind anyway.

edit--- and I'm not condoning abusing alcohol, just stating that it is far less likely to abuse alcohol to have the same impact as abusing bad drugs.

I think you made Amused's point perfectly clear. Thank you, of course you know what is best for society and wish to impose your views and beliefs upon it. I understand your point, but it really is against freedom and liberty. This is the slippery slope your mentality is - I'm not insulting you, just asking you think about what freedom really is and what The Constitution guarantees.

You're so dang comfortable that you can only try to dictate what others do based on shared burden. That is socialism, the polar opposite of freedom.

Please keep in mind that my use of "you" is not directed at your post, but "you" collectively. I also realize that I'm putting you on the defensive with such verbage

 

[Amused]

Originally posted by: Chaotic42

Originally posted by: Amused
If someone wants to destroy their life with drugs or alcohol, who are we to stop them?

So long as they legally waive any and all rights to any form of government assistance (or are forcefully deprived of those rights), I have no problem with letting them ruin themselves.

Why not just stop government assistance altogether? Or if that's too much for you, a good compromise would be to funnel the money we spend on the WOD and redirect it to treatment and education.

 

[ric1287]

Originally posted by: Amused

Originally posted by: ric1287

Originally posted by: Amused

Originally posted by: ric1287

Originally posted by: Amused

Originally posted by: ric1287

Originally posted by: Amused

Originally posted by: Xavier434

Originally posted by: Amused
..

..

.

..

.

If you can show me a crackhead who is legally obtaining the money needed to fund his habbit, then fine. But chances are, if your the type of person willing to inject poisen into your body, your also the type of person who doesn't mind stealing/killing/etc from normal people.

And fatties can be as simple as taking up too much space on public transit or on the other end, sucking more tax dollars and increasing health care costs.

The very illegality of drugs is what causes crime.

When was the last time you heard of liquor dealers doing drive bys on each other? When was the last time you heard of drunks killing people for booze?

As for your "cost to society" argument pertaining to fat people: GOTCHYA! Now you understand why socialism is anathema to freedom. You seek to limit the freedoms/actions of others because you fear you'll have to pay for it. A very slippery slope... as sooner or later, all assumed risk will be outlawed because of "cost to society." When you want society to pay, society becomes your parent.

In short, druggies and fatties don't bother YOU at all. They do not impact your life one bit... until, of course, you seek to insert yourself into their lives that is.

MYOB. It's really that easy.

Wrongo.

Alcholol is a drug that can, and in most cases, is "consumed in moderation". Crack/heroine/etc on the other hand, is not. People don't go out with some buddies from work to shoot up some heroine. And there are far more druggies that obtain their fund through illegal measures, you cannot argue that one bit. There arent many heroine addicts working a 9-5 downtown.

And like I said about fatties, them taking up 5 seats on a bus or train is physically impacting me. And there is no reason why my tax/insurance dollars need to go to people who freely choose to suck at health. So yes, they do bother me.

So no, I will not "MYOB" when the scum of society ruin it for the rest of us. And if you are one of the believers in "but, but, if drugs were all legal, we'd all be one happy family" then you're out of your fucking mind anyway.

edit--- and I'm not condoning abusing alcohol, just stating that it is far less likely to abuse alcohol to have the same impact as abusing bad drugs.

50 plus years of enforcement. 30 plus years of a war on drugs. Millions of non-violent drug offenders locked up in prisons.

What have we gained? Are drug abuse rates lower? Has supply diminished?

Nope, not one bit. Yet gangs and criminal organizations have become rich and vastly more dangerous. They commonly victimize innocent people. They run entire neighborhoods on fear and violence

What gives them that power? The drug trade.

There will ALWAYS be addicts. Even the most oppressive countries on earth have not been able to slow the rate of drug abuse.

Making drugs illegal does NOTHING to stop abuse, and only empowers criminals.

We should have learned this lesson with Prohibition, but unfortunately, we did not.

If someone wants to destroy their life with drugs or alcohol, who are we to stop them?

You can toss insults all day long and try to belittle me for these facts, but you cannot dispute these facts. Nations that have decriminalized drugs and focused on treatment rather than enforcement have seen crime plummet along with abuse rates.

As fo fatties, who cares? Are you honestly so put out by them? How is a fat person taking up two seats different than a woman and child doing the same? Why do you fscking care anyhow?

Your attitude is exactly what I'm talking about. As soon as a person's freedom annoys you the slightest little bit, you seek to limit their freedom... even though they have done no harm to you.

I shall reply one more time even though its pointless with somebody who has your outlook.

I have news for you: jails are not filled with kids who smoke weed once every couple weeks. And while the crackhead himself may not be violent, 100% of the steps to get him his drugs, from Columbia/mexico/etc was violent.

And your solution is, instead of wasting money on fighting drugs, we should force treatment on people? Yeah, that would be a whole lot cheaper. What happened to their "freedom" that you cry for? Why do we have to force treatment?

What happens to the gangs and other shit heads that control the drug market when its legalized? Do they just throw their hands up and say "oh well, I guess I'll go back to school and stop being a shithead"? Nope, if anything their business goes up as more people would be willing to try shit with no consequences. In your scenario, does the government allow gas stations to sell crack then? How does legalizing it eliminate shit?

And it doesn't matter what "annoys" me about fatties. You stated that they have no negative impact, and i provided examples of some. Simple as that really.

But you can go ahead and think druggies/gangs/violence/etc would all cease to exist if drugs were legal. Must be nice to have such a loose grasp on reality.

 

[ric1287]

Originally posted by: spidey07

Originally posted by: ric1287

Wrongo.

Alcholol is a drug that can, and in most cases, is "consumed in moderation". Crack/heroine/etc on the other hand, is not. People don't go out with some buddies from work to shoot up some heroine. And there are far more druggies that obtain their fund through illegal measures, you cannot argue that one bit. There arent many heroine addicts working a 9-5 downtown.

And like I said about fatties, them taking up 5 seats on a bus or train is physically impacting me. And there is no reason why my tax/insurance dollars need to go to people who freely choose to suck at health. So yes, they do bother me.

So no, I will not "MYOB" when the scum of society ruin it for the rest of us. And if you are one of the believers in "but, but, if drugs were all legal, we'd all be one happy family" then you're out of your fucking mind anyway.

edit--- and I'm not condoning abusing alcohol, just stating that it is far less likely to abuse alcohol to have the same impact as abusing bad drugs.

I think you made Amused's point perfectly clear. Thank you, of course you know what is best for society and wish to impose your views and beliefs upon it. I understand your point, but it really is against freedom and liberty. This is the slippery slope your mentality is - I'm not insulting you, just asking you think about what freedom really is and what The Constitution guarantees.

You're so dang comfortable that you can only try to dictate what others do based on shared burden. That is socialism, the polar opposite of freedom.

Please keep in mind that my use of "you" is not directed at your post, but "you" collectively. I also realize that I'm putting you on the defensive with such verbage

No, you missed my point as well. If you can reasonably guarantee me that a druggie will not do anything illegal to obtain drugs, then cool. I don't give a shit if someone wants to destroy themselves, but I do have a problem with them ruining the lives of normal citizens. No matter what kind of "but we should be able to do whatever we want" argument you have, there is no denying that the great majority of drug addicts can't and don't lead normal, productive lives outside of shooting up.

 

[IronWing]

Originally posted by: ric1287


What happens to the gangs and other shit heads that control the drug market when its legalized? Do they just throw their hands up and say "oh well, I guess I'll go back to school and stop being a shithead"? Nope, if anything their business goes up as more people would be willing to try shit with no consequences. In your scenario, does the government allow gas stations to sell crack then? How does legalizing it eliminate shit?

And it doesn't matter what "annoys" me about fatties. You stated that they have no negative impact, and i provided examples of some. Simple as that really.

But you can go ahead and think druggies/gangs/violence/etc would all cease to exist if drugs were legal. Must be nice to have such a loose grasp on reality.

Violent pricks will still be violent pricks but with a whole lot less money.

 

[ric1287]

Originally posted by: ironwing

Originally posted by: ric1287


What happens to the gangs and other shit heads that control the drug market when its legalized? Do they just throw their hands up and say "oh well, I guess I'll go back to school and stop being a shithead"? Nope, if anything their business goes up as more people would be willing to try shit with no consequences. In your scenario, does the government allow gas stations to sell crack then? How does legalizing it eliminate shit?

And it doesn't matter what "annoys" me about fatties. You stated that they have no negative impact, and i provided examples of some. Simple as that really.

But you can go ahead and think druggies/gangs/violence/etc would all cease to exist if drugs were legal. Must be nice to have such a loose grasp on reality.

Violent pricks will still be violent pricks but with a whole lot less money.

why would it be less money? What would be made legal? You think the government would put the a-ok stamp on importing drugs from other countries? Or would they put normal taxes on that and just assume that the shitheads will go along with the gov "taking a cut" of their money?

Who sells the drugs? Are the gangs now allowed to freely sell? And this would stop gang violence.....how? All the gangs would just join hands and unite as the biggest drug company?

There is so much more involved than just saying "ok...drugs are legal!!!!! Go for it"

 

[spidey07]

Ric, it's not a discussion on drug legalization...m'kay? It's about freedom and "you" being annoyed at other's freedom because they are your burden and wish to reduce that "burden on society" by sharing it. It's the view that it is a shared burden that is the problem - it's an individual's burden and nobody else.

It's the thought that they are burden on you is the problem. They should NOT be. They should NOT be your burden.

 

[tfinch2]

I don't think kids with money is that big of a deal, but they are definitely are too soft. Parents are making them little pussies.

 

[Amused]

Originally posted by: ric1287

Originally posted by: spidey07

Originally posted by: ric1287

Wrongo.

Alcholol is a drug that can, and in most cases, is "consumed in moderation". Crack/heroine/etc on the other hand, is not. People don't go out with some buddies from work to shoot up some heroine. And there are far more druggies that obtain their fund through illegal measures, you cannot argue that one bit. There arent many heroine addicts working a 9-5 downtown.

And like I said about fatties, them taking up 5 seats on a bus or train is physically impacting me. And there is no reason why my tax/insurance dollars need to go to people who freely choose to suck at health. So yes, they do bother me.

So no, I will not "MYOB" when the scum of society ruin it for the rest of us. And if you are one of the believers in "but, but, if drugs were all legal, we'd all be one happy family" then you're out of your fucking mind anyway.

edit--- and I'm not condoning abusing alcohol, just stating that it is far less likely to abuse alcohol to have the same impact as abusing bad drugs.

I think you made Amused's point perfectly clear. Thank you, of course you know what is best for society and wish to impose your views and beliefs upon it. I understand your point, but it really is against freedom and liberty. This is the slippery slope your mentality is - I'm not insulting you, just asking you think about what freedom really is and what The Constitution guarantees.

You're so dang comfortable that you can only try to dictate what others do based on shared burden. That is socialism, the polar opposite of freedom.

Please keep in mind that my use of "you" is not directed at your post, but "you" collectively. I also realize that I'm putting you on the defensive with such verbage

No, you missed my point as well. If you can reasonably guarantee me that a druggie will not do anything illegal to obtain drugs, then cool. I don't give a shit if someone wants to destroy themselves, but I do have a problem with them ruining the lives of normal citizens. No matter what kind of "but we should be able to do whatever we want" argument you have, there is no denying that the great majority of drug addicts can't and don't lead normal, productive lives outside of shooting up.

They're already doing illegal shit to get their drugs. Legalization wont change that, but it WILL take the power and wealth from the drug gangs and shut them down.

All the laws and enforcement in the world will not stop drug abuse. But it does create far more crime than there would be if you just let addicts waste away in red-light distructs on cheap drugs and funnel that money to education and treatment.

 

[IronWing]

Originally posted by: ric1287

Originally posted by: ironwing

Originally posted by: ric1287


What happens to the gangs and other shit heads that control the drug market when its legalized? Do they just throw their hands up and say "oh well, I guess I'll go back to school and stop being a shithead"? Nope, if anything their business goes up as more people would be willing to try shit with no consequences. In your scenario, does the government allow gas stations to sell crack then? How does legalizing it eliminate shit?

And it doesn't matter what "annoys" me about fatties. You stated that they have no negative impact, and i provided examples of some. Simple as that really.

But you can go ahead and think druggies/gangs/violence/etc would all cease to exist if drugs were legal. Must be nice to have such a loose grasp on reality.

Violent pricks will still be violent pricks but with a whole lot less money.

why would it be less money? What would be made legal? You think the government would put the a-ok stamp on importing drugs from other countries? Or would they put normal taxes on that and just assume that the shitheads will go along with the gov "taking a cut" of their money?

Who sells the drugs? Are the gangs now allowed to freely sell? And this would stop gang violence.....how? All the gangs would just join hands and unite as the biggest drug company?

There is so much more involved than just saying "ok...drugs are legal!!!!! Go for it"

If you legalize drugs, the enormous profits wither. Companies with experience in shipping/selling legal goods through established channels can move goods a lot more efficiently than gangs, cutting the price. With pot, a user could grow it in his/her backyard. Legalizing drugs removes the reason criminal gangs became attracted to the trade in the first place, big money. You seem to be implying that the gangs would continue to control production and distribution of drugs. With legalization there is no reason that this should be the case.

 

[zinfamous]

Originally posted by: BudAshes
Kids have too much discretionary income. In a capitalistic society discretionary income = power, and kids have way to much influence on society.

yep.

the dumbing-down of America continues!

Let us cater to the all-knowing young, dumb, male crowd!
Yes, Sir!

 

[spidey07]

Originally posted by: ric1287
No, you missed my point as well. If you can reasonably guarantee me that a druggie will not do anything illegal to obtain drugs, then cool. I don't give a shit if someone wants to destroy themselves, but I do have a problem with them ruining the lives of normal citizens. No matter what kind of "but we should be able to do whatever we want" argument you have, there is no denying that the great majority of drug addicts can't and don't lead normal, productive lives outside of shooting up.

It is not in The Constitution to reasonably guarantee you much of anything other than freedom.

Don't you see the point here?

 

[zinfamous]

Originally posted by: waggy
and how is kids having spending power bad?

have you seen any of the top-grossing films over the previous 2 decades?

Sure, not ALL of them bad; but the vast majority....

 

[Amused]

Originally posted by: ironwing

Originally posted by: ric1287

Originally posted by: ironwing

Originally posted by: ric1287


What happens to the gangs and other shit heads that control the drug market when its legalized? Do they just throw their hands up and say "oh well, I guess I'll go back to school and stop being a shithead"? Nope, if anything their business goes up as more people would be willing to try shit with no consequences. In your scenario, does the government allow gas stations to sell crack then? How does legalizing it eliminate shit?

And it doesn't matter what "annoys" me about fatties. You stated that they have no negative impact, and i provided examples of some. Simple as that really.

But you can go ahead and think druggies/gangs/violence/etc would all cease to exist if drugs were legal. Must be nice to have such a loose grasp on reality.

Violent pricks will still be violent pricks but with a whole lot less money.

why would it be less money? What would be made legal? You think the government would put the a-ok stamp on importing drugs from other countries? Or would they put normal taxes on that and just assume that the shitheads will go along with the gov "taking a cut" of their money?

Who sells the drugs? Are the gangs now allowed to freely sell? And this would stop gang violence.....how? All the gangs would just join hands and unite as the biggest drug company?

There is so much more involved than just saying "ok...drugs are legal!!!!! Go for it"

If you legalize drugs, the enormous profits wither. Companies with experience in shipping/selling legal goods through established channels can move goods a lot more efficiently than gangs, cutting the price. With pot, a user could grow it in his/her backyard. Legalizing drugs removes the reason criminal gangs became attracted to the trade in the first place, big money. You seem to be implying that the gangs would continue to control production and distribution of drugs. With legalization there is no reason that this should be the case.

Yep. The end of prohibition seriously hurt gangs in the 30s. The more organized gangs went back to gambling and prostitution (two other vices that should never have been outlawed) and turned to drugs in the 40s and 50s to make profits again when teen street gangs started moving in on their turf.

Drugs took teen street gangs and turned them into mafia style criminal organizations making millions of dollars. Take away the drug trade from them and they will quickly revert back to teen street gangs with zip guns and switch blades.

 

[ric1287]

Originally posted by: Amused

Originally posted by: ric1287

Originally posted by: spidey07

Originally posted by: ric1287

Wrongo.

Alcholol is a drug that can, and in most cases, is "consumed in moderation". Crack/heroine/etc on the other hand, is not. People don't go out with some buddies from work to shoot up some heroine. And there are far more druggies that obtain their fund through illegal measures, you cannot argue that one bit. There arent many heroine addicts working a 9-5 downtown.

And like I said about fatties, them taking up 5 seats on a bus or train is physically impacting me. And there is no reason why my tax/insurance dollars need to go to people who freely choose to suck at health. So yes, they do bother me.

So no, I will not "MYOB" when the scum of society ruin it for the rest of us. And if you are one of the believers in "but, but, if drugs were all legal, we'd all be one happy family" then you're out of your fucking mind anyway.

edit--- and I'm not condoning abusing alcohol, just stating that it is far less likely to abuse alcohol to have the same impact as abusing bad drugs.

I think you made Amused's point perfectly clear. Thank you, of course you know what is best for society and wish to impose your views and beliefs upon it. I understand your point, but it really is against freedom and liberty. This is the slippery slope your mentality is - I'm not insulting you, just asking you think about what freedom really is and what The Constitution guarantees.

You're so dang comfortable that you can only try to dictate what others do based on shared burden. That is socialism, the polar opposite of freedom.

Please keep in mind that my use of "you" is not directed at your post, but "you" collectively. I also realize that I'm putting you on the defensive with such verbage

No, you missed my point as well. If you can reasonably guarantee me that a druggie will not do anything illegal to obtain drugs, then cool. I don't give a shit if someone wants to destroy themselves, but I do have a problem with them ruining the lives of normal citizens. No matter what kind of "but we should be able to do whatever we want" argument you have, there is no denying that the great majority of drug addicts can't and don't lead normal, productive lives outside of shooting up.

They're already doing illegal shit to get their drugs. Legalization wont change that, but it WILL take the power and wealth from the drug gangs and shut them down.

All the laws and enforcement in the world will not stop drug abuse. But it does create far more crime than there would be if you just let addicts waste away in red-light distructs on cheap drugs and funnel that money to education and treatment.

Again, show me how the gangs suddenly go away once its legal? How does the legalization work? Does the government regulate the drugs and make them here? or are they simply legal to own, but get them yourselves?

Even if the gov regulates, taxes (imagine the taxes charged on them), etc drugs....what makes you think the gangs won't go around the gov to make more money?

Its not as simple as you seem to think it is. Gangs won't disappear without drugs, not to mention that they'll just find some other revenue source.

 

[zinfamous]

Originally posted by: waggy

Originally posted by: vi edit

Originally posted by: Amused
The real problem with America is everyone is so damn comfortable, even our poorest, that we are always looking for problems to fix. Rather than focusing on bettering ourselves we focus on the shortcomings of others and think we can fix them.

Sadly, the majority think that laws, regulations and limitations on freedoms will fix things.

Actually just today I was thinking about this. I think one of the biggest problems with our culture is that we think throwing money at something can fix problems.

Education system sucks? Throw more money at it.
Housing/financial market crisis? Throw money at it.
Economy is tanking? Throw $600 checks at people.
Still upset about slavery? I'll take a reperation check, thanks.
Too fat? Buy a pill.
AIDS and famine in Africa? Throw money at that too.

i agree.

seems like everyone (both the government and the people) look for the easy answer and its easy to throw money at problems.

China's money

 

[DangerAardvark]

The problem with America is that it's full of Americans. Eww.

Also, in regards to illicit substances, the government should have no say in what an adult of sound mind puts in their own body. Period.

 

[ric1287]

Originally posted by: spidey07
Ric, it's not a discussion on drug legalization...m'kay? It's about freedom and "you" being annoyed at other's freedom because they are your burden and wish to reduce that "burden on society" by sharing it. It's the view that it is a shared burden that is the problem - it's an individual's burden and nobody else.

It's the thought that they are burden on you is the problem. They should NOT be. They should NOT be your burden.

I must have missed the last 5 posts about how legalization would bring an end to all of our troubles. Something must be wrong with my internet.

 

[zinfamous]

Originally posted by: DangerAardvark
The problem with America is that it's full of Americans. Eww.

Whoa! I thought that was Scotland....

 

[IronWing]

Originally posted by: zinfamous

Originally posted by: DangerAardvark
The problem with America is that it's full of Americans. Eww.

Whoa! I thought that was Scotland....

That would explain the skirt.

 

[zinfamous]

Originally posted by: ironwing

Originally posted by: zinfamous

Originally posted by: DangerAardvark
The problem with America is that it's full of Americans. Eww.

Whoa! I thought that was Scotland....

That would explain the skirt.

and the cabers.

 

[Amused]

Originally posted by: ric1287

Originally posted by: Amused

Originally posted by: ric1287

Originally posted by: spidey07

Originally posted by: ric1287

Wrongo.

Alcholol is a drug that can, and in most cases, is "consumed in moderation". Crack/heroine/etc on the other hand, is not. People don't go out with some buddies from work to shoot up some heroine. And there are far more druggies that obtain their fund through illegal measures, you cannot argue that one bit. There arent many heroine addicts working a 9-5 downtown.

And like I said about fatties, them taking up 5 seats on a bus or train is physically impacting me. And there is no reason why my tax/insurance dollars need to go to people who freely choose to suck at health. So yes, they do bother me.

So no, I will not "MYOB" when the scum of society ruin it for the rest of us. And if you are one of the believers in "but, but, if drugs were all legal, we'd all be one happy family" then you're out of your fucking mind anyway.

edit--- and I'm not condoning abusing alcohol, just stating that it is far less likely to abuse alcohol to have the same impact as abusing bad drugs.

I think you made Amused's point perfectly clear. Thank you, of course you know what is best for society and wish to impose your views and beliefs upon it. I understand your point, but it really is against freedom and liberty. This is the slippery slope your mentality is - I'm not insulting you, just asking you think about what freedom really is and what The Constitution guarantees.

You're so dang comfortable that you can only try to dictate what others do based on shared burden. That is socialism, the polar opposite of freedom.

Please keep in mind that my use of "you" is not directed at your post, but "you" collectively. I also realize that I'm putting you on the defensive with such verbage

No, you missed my point as well. If you can reasonably guarantee me that a druggie will not do anything illegal to obtain drugs, then cool. I don't give a shit if someone wants to destroy themselves, but I do have a problem with them ruining the lives of normal citizens. No matter what kind of "but we should be able to do whatever we want" argument you have, there is no denying that the great majority of drug addicts can't and don't lead normal, productive lives outside of shooting up.

They're already doing illegal shit to get their drugs. Legalization wont change that, but it WILL take the power and wealth from the drug gangs and shut them down.

All the laws and enforcement in the world will not stop drug abuse. But it does create far more crime than there would be if you just let addicts waste away in red-light distructs on cheap drugs and funnel that money to education and treatment.

Again, show me how the gangs suddenly go away once its legal? How does the legalization work? Does the government regulate the drugs and make them here? or are they simply legal to own, but get them yourselves?

Even if the gov regulates, taxes (imagine the taxes charged on them), etc drugs....what makes you think the gangs won't go around the gov to make more money?

Its not as simple as you seem to think it is. Gangs won't disappear without drugs, not to mention that they'll just find some other revenue source.

Gangs won't disappear, but you WILL see them quickly revert back to BEFORE they controlled the drug trade. It is the drug trade that gives them their wealth and power.

Drugs would become much like alcohol is today. Privately produced and sold, but strictly regulated and the best bet would be to limit their sale to red light districts.

Why wont the gangs go around the government and still sell drugs? Why don't gangs still produce and sell alcohol??? Because when it is legal, it's not profitable to traffic in illegally.

The only two other revenue sources for gangs are gambling and prostitution. And both require a bit more organization than common street gangs are capable of, which is why the Italians and Irish gangs have the market on those.

Which, BTW, are two other things that should not be banned. ALL the crime and disease surrounding prostitution exist ONLY because it is illegal.