I've realized the real problem with America.

[BudAshes]

Originally posted by: Ocguy31

Originally posted by: BudAshes

Exactly what freedoms are the leftists trying to take from us besides hand guns(which i could give a shit about because like most people I don't live in the ghetto)? I believe it's the right that wants things like patriot act, making abortion illegal, making drugs illegal etc.


edit* this wasn't supposed to be a P&N thread. More of a rant and discussion about spoiled children.

So because one of our freedoms isnt important to you, because of some of your prejudices, we should wipe them away?

Well the freedom to abort a baby, because of someones Gawd/lawdy/jeebus, etc, isnt important to them. Thier freedom from government ease dropping isnt important, because they dont do anything illegal.

See how your argument makes you look uneducated?

No, I don't see how it makes me look uneducated. I pointed out that leftists do want to limit some freedoms, but the right certainly does their share as well. Pointing out hypocrisy doesn't make me uneducated.

 

[Amused]

Originally posted by: BudAshes

Originally posted by: Ocguy31

Originally posted by: BudAshes

Exactly what freedoms are the leftists trying to take from us besides hand guns(which i could give a shit about because like most people I don't live in the ghetto)? I believe it's the right that wants things like patriot act, making abortion illegal, making drugs illegal etc.


edit* this wasn't supposed to be a P&N thread. More of a rant and discussion about spoiled children.

So because one of our freedoms isnt important to you, because of some of your prejudices, we should wipe them away?

Well the freedom to abort a baby, because of someones Gawd/lawdy/jeebus, etc, isnt important to them. Thier freedom from government ease dropping isnt important, because they dont do anything illegal.

See how your argument makes you look uneducated?

No, I don't see how it makes me look uneducated. I pointed out that leftists do want to limit some freedoms, but the right certainly does their share as well. Pointing out hypocrisy doesn't make me uneducated.

Yep, the left and the right both want to limit the freedoms of others because they don't like what they do.

But one would be hard pressed to deny that the left has been more successful over the years than the right.

 

[cubby1223]

The problem is we are a society living in debt. Want a new hdtv? No payments for two years! Want a car? No money down 0% apr for two years! Want a home? No principal mortgage for $300k! Put everything on the credit card. Deal with the finances later.

Don't worry, the government will bail you out when you realize how stupid you are!

And in the case of one friend of mine - have absolutely no chance of finding a job? Just rack up more student loans on another year in college that at this point is not helping you in the least. Continue draining the government of money you know you will never be able to pay back...




When a credit card statement can read $3,000 balance and $25 due, no one should be the least bit surprised that the economy is collapsing.

 

[ch33kym0use]

focus on cures, if no cure then I fugg it

 

[Xavier434]

Originally posted by: ric1287

Originally posted by: spidey07
Ric, it's not a discussion on drug legalization...m'kay? It's about freedom and "you" being annoyed at other's freedom because they are your burden and wish to reduce that "burden on society" by sharing it. It's the view that it is a shared burden that is the problem - it's an individual's burden and nobody else.

It's the thought that they are burden on you is the problem. They should NOT be. They should NOT be your burden.

I must have missed the last 5 posts about how legalization would bring an end to all of our troubles. Something must be wrong with my internet.

No, spidey07 is just ridiculously delusional at this point thanks to his overwhelming hatred against social services. It has surpassed his judgment. One thing he doesn't realize is that this country...no, this world is no longer able to be as isolated as he wants it to be. He wants these problems to be isolated. He doesn't want them to effect his life or the lives of others. However, what he is failing to realize is that there is nothing that he or our government can do about that with exception of keeping it under moderate control but it will never be isolated. Part of that moderate control actually comes in the form of social services and if you really do look into the "what ifs" if we got rid them then it becomes overwhelmingly apparent that the alternative is much more miserable and much more expensive. Social services are a band aid solution to cover up the real problems such as lack of a quality education system, but such things cost money too.

It's the same old story. People want it all but they don't want to pay for it.

 

[Eeezee]

The real problem is that our aircraft carriers aren't using treadmills to launch their planes, it would be much more efficient!

 

[Eeezee]

Originally posted by: vi edit

Originally posted by: Amused
The real problem with America is everyone is so damn comfortable, even our poorest, that we are always looking for problems to fix. Rather than focusing on bettering ourselves we focus on the shortcomings of others and think we can fix them.

Sadly, the majority think that laws, regulations and limitations on freedoms will fix things.

Actually just today I was thinking about this. I think one of the biggest problems with our culture is that we think throwing money at something can fix problems.

Education system sucks? Throw more money at it.
Housing/financial market crisis? Throw money at it.
Economy is tanking? Throw $600 checks at people.
Still upset about slavery? I'll take a reperation check, thanks.
Too fat? Buy a pill.
AIDS and famine in Africa? Throw money at that too.

Some of those things CAN be solved with money though!

Education system sucks? Pay teachers better, create incentives for smart people to become teachers. Currently the pay is not where it needs to be, considering the importance of scientific education at a young age.

AIDS and famine in Africa? Food costs money. Scientific research costs money. Provide money and people will show up to solve these problems. Money = incentive. I'm sure we can just wish famine away, instead

 

[vi edit]

Originally posted by: Eeezee

Originally posted by: vi edit

Originally posted by: Amused
The real problem with America is everyone is so damn comfortable, even our poorest, that we are always looking for problems to fix. Rather than focusing on bettering ourselves we focus on the shortcomings of others and think we can fix them.

Sadly, the majority think that laws, regulations and limitations on freedoms will fix things.

Actually just today I was thinking about this. I think one of the biggest problems with our culture is that we think throwing money at something can fix problems.

Education system sucks? Throw more money at it.
Housing/financial market crisis? Throw money at it.
Economy is tanking? Throw $600 checks at people.
Still upset about slavery? I'll take a reperation check, thanks.
Too fat? Buy a pill.
AIDS and famine in Africa? Throw money at that too.

Some of those things CAN be solved with money though!

Education system sucks? Pay teachers better, create incentives for smart people to become teachers. Currently the pay is not where it needs to be, considering the importance of scientific education at a young age.

AIDS and famine in Africa? Food costs money. Scientific research costs money. Provide money and people will show up to solve these problems. Money = incentive. I'm sure we can just wish famine away, instead

You aren't solving with that. You are treating symptoms.

 

[Pacfanweb]

Originally posted by: Lonyo

Originally posted by: BudAshes
Kids have too much discretionary income. In a capitalistic society discretionary income = power, and kids have way to much influence on society.

No, religious fanatics have too much influence, and that's the real problem.

Not a religious person here, but the truth is, the above statement is completely backwards.

All the problems we have today....behavioral, etc....can be traced back to when the religious "fanatics", as anyone who's religious these days is called, started losing influence.

Today there is less religious influence than ever before in the country's history, and we have what we have.
It's not the entire answer, but it is undeniably a major factor.

 

[Pacfanweb]

Originally posted by: Eeezee

Originally posted by: vi edit

Originally posted by: Amused
The real problem with America is everyone is so damn comfortable, even our poorest, that we are always looking for problems to fix. Rather than focusing on bettering ourselves we focus on the shortcomings of others and think we can fix them.

Sadly, the majority think that laws, regulations and limitations on freedoms will fix things.

Actually just today I was thinking about this. I think one of the biggest problems with our culture is that we think throwing money at something can fix problems.

Education system sucks? Throw more money at it.
Housing/financial market crisis? Throw money at it.
Economy is tanking? Throw $600 checks at people.
Still upset about slavery? I'll take a reperation check, thanks.
Too fat? Buy a pill.
AIDS and famine in Africa? Throw money at that too.

Some of those things CAN be solved with money though!

Education system sucks? Pay teachers better, create incentives for smart people to become teachers. Currently the pay is not where it needs to be, considering the importance of scientific education at a young age.

AIDS and famine in Africa? Food costs money. Scientific research costs money. Provide money and people will show up to solve these problems. Money = incentive. I'm sure we can just wish famine away, instead

Agree about the education system...good teachers should make more...it should be incentive-based. Weed out the bad teachers. You shouldn't be able to teach our kids if you aren't a good teacher.

Disagree about throwing more money at the AIDS and famine in Africa. No matter how much you do for those idiots, you can't fix stupid. They are the ones who keep screwing one another without using the readily-available condoms, they are the ones who keep having children they have no way to feed.
If you give them more money and food, they'll just do it more.

 

[Xavier434]

Originally posted by: Eeezee

Originally posted by: vi edit

Originally posted by: Amused
The real problem with America is everyone is so damn comfortable, even our poorest, that we are always looking for problems to fix. Rather than focusing on bettering ourselves we focus on the shortcomings of others and think we can fix them.

Sadly, the majority think that laws, regulations and limitations on freedoms will fix things.

Actually just today I was thinking about this. I think one of the biggest problems with our culture is that we think throwing money at something can fix problems.

Education system sucks? Throw more money at it.
Housing/financial market crisis? Throw money at it.
Economy is tanking? Throw $600 checks at people.
Still upset about slavery? I'll take a reperation check, thanks.
Too fat? Buy a pill.
AIDS and famine in Africa? Throw money at that too.

Some of those things CAN be solved with money though!

Education system sucks? Pay teachers better, create incentives for smart people to become teachers. Currently the pay is not where it needs to be, considering the importance of scientific education at a young age.

AIDS and famine in Africa? Food costs money. Scientific research costs money. Provide money and people will show up to solve these problems. Money = incentive. I'm sure we can just wish famine away, instead

I would also like to see some money go towards some form of a public vocational school system as well. There are a lot of kids out there who are not finishing HS or will but not go to college. At least if they go to a vocational school they will be dumped on the street afterward with some kind of skill instead of a worthless HS diploma or less. This isn't some kind of solution to end all problems of course but I think we would see some improvement in America if it happened.

 

[Lithium381]

Originally posted by: spidey07
Ric, it's not a discussion on drug legalization...m'kay? It's about freedom and "you" being annoyed at other's freedom because they are your burden and wish to reduce that "burden on society" by sharing it. It's the view that it is a shared burden that is the problem - it's an individual's burden and nobody else.

It's the thought that they are burden on you is the problem. They should NOT be. They should NOT be your burden.

I agree; to at least the point that i interpreted your point of view. This entire "Problem With America", IMHO, was summed up in one of the first posts(ignoring those of the cheesepie) being that Americans today lack the concept of personal responsibility and accountability for their actions, on a whole. This is conditioned, however, by how our government has acted in the past. The government has made legislation protecting the rights of individuals, at the cost of society.

A simple minded example:
The girl in the news recently who fell through a skylight to her death on school grounds in the middle of the night. The school and city are being sued by the parents, why? The girl was trespassing, drinking underage and just plain not being intelligent. Whose fault? Obviously not hers nor her parents'. Now all of the citizens in that county must pay for her stupidity. Thanks America!

 

[Xavier434]

Originally posted by: Lithium381

Originally posted by: spidey07
Ric, it's not a discussion on drug legalization...m'kay? It's about freedom and "you" being annoyed at other's freedom because they are your burden and wish to reduce that "burden on society" by sharing it. It's the view that it is a shared burden that is the problem - it's an individual's burden and nobody else.

It's the thought that they are burden on you is the problem. They should NOT be. They should NOT be your burden.

I agree; to at least the point that i interpreted your point of view. This entire "Problem With America", IMHO, was summed up in one of the first posts(ignoring those of the cheesepie) being that Americans today lack the concept of personal responsibility and accountability for their actions, on a whole. This is conditioned, however, by how our government has acted in the past. The government has made legislation protecting the rights of individuals, at the cost of society.

I do not completely disagree with that, but it is what it is. The more important question to ask is what we should do about it? Keep in mind that if the answer that you or anyone else comes up with seems simple then more than likely it is wrong or at the very least grossly incomplete. This is a very complex and multi tiered problem. A good place to start is by asking what provoked the government to start offering social services in the first place. There was a time when they did not exist. What changed and why?

 

[Regs]

Originally posted by: Delta6Echo

Originally posted by: Lonyo

Originally posted by: BudAshes
Kids have too much discretionary income. In a capitalistic society discretionary income = power, and kids have way to much influence on society.

No, religious fanatics have too much influence, and that's the real problem.

Agreed. I'd say religion has done quite a number on us. I hope one day people open their eyes and see what's REALLY going on.

I don't have much faith though....time will tell.

Religion? How about values? Don't twist this into a GOP debate.

 

[Lithium381]

Originally posted by: Xavier434

Originally posted by: Lithium381

Originally posted by: spidey07
Ric, it's not a discussion on drug legalization...m'kay? It's about freedom and "you" being annoyed at other's freedom because they are your burden and wish to reduce that "burden on society" by sharing it. It's the view that it is a shared burden that is the problem - it's an individual's burden and nobody else.

It's the thought that they are burden on you is the problem. They should NOT be. They should NOT be your burden.

I agree; to at least the point that i interpreted your point of view. This entire "Problem With America", IMHO, was summed up in one of the first posts(ignoring those of the cheesepie) being that Americans today lack the concept of personal responsibility and accountability for their actions, on a whole. This is conditioned, however, by how our government has acted in the past. The government has made legislation protecting the rights of individuals, at the cost of society.

I do not completely disagree with that, but it is what it is. The more important question to ask is what we should do about it? Keep in mind that if the answer that you or anyone else comes up with seems simple then more than likely it is wrong or at the very least grossly incomplete. This is a very complex and multi tiered problem. A good place to start is by asking what provoked the government to start offering social services in the first place. There was a time when they did not exist. What changed and why?

The answer itself is simple: The US Government(read: WE THE PEOPLE OF THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA) needs to stop enabling and babysitting. The implementation and application of this solution, as you said, is very complex, as an understatement.

 

[GodlessAstronomer]

Originally posted by: Pacfanweb

Originally posted by: Eeezee

Originally posted by: vi edit

Originally posted by: Amused
The real problem with America is everyone is so damn comfortable, even our poorest, that we are always looking for problems to fix. Rather than focusing on bettering ourselves we focus on the shortcomings of others and think we can fix them.

Sadly, the majority think that laws, regulations and limitations on freedoms will fix things.

Actually just today I was thinking about this. I think one of the biggest problems with our culture is that we think throwing money at something can fix problems.

Education system sucks? Throw more money at it.
Housing/financial market crisis? Throw money at it.
Economy is tanking? Throw $600 checks at people.
Still upset about slavery? I'll take a reperation check, thanks.
Too fat? Buy a pill.
AIDS and famine in Africa? Throw money at that too.

Some of those things CAN be solved with money though!

Education system sucks? Pay teachers better, create incentives for smart people to become teachers. Currently the pay is not where it needs to be, considering the importance of scientific education at a young age.

AIDS and famine in Africa? Food costs money. Scientific research costs money. Provide money and people will show up to solve these problems. Money = incentive. I'm sure we can just wish famine away, instead

Agree about the education system...good teachers should make more...it should be incentive-based. Weed out the bad teachers. You shouldn't be able to teach our kids if you aren't a good teacher.

Disagree about throwing more money at the AIDS and famine in Africa. No matter how much you do for those idiots, you can't fix stupid. They are the ones who keep screwing one another without using the readily-available condoms, they are the ones who keep having children they have no way to feed.
If you give them more money and food, they'll just do it more.

Actually, you can fix stupid. It's called education.

 

[Regs]

Originally posted by: Xavier434

I do not completely disagree with that, but it is what it is. The more important question to ask is what we should do about it? Keep in mind that if the answer that you or anyone else comes up with seems simple then more than likely it is wrong or at the very least grossly incomplete. This is a very complex and multi tiered problem. A good place to start is by asking what provoked the government to start offering social services in the first place. There was a time when they did not exist. What changed and why?

We live in a very delicate balance. More people with more interests changes the balance. Therefore cause reaches effect. We have to sacrifice one thing for the other to keep the balance. What it comes down to is what people are willing to sacrifice.