I've joined the Hybrid ranks...doubled down on Ford - have a C-Max

[JTsyo]

Welcome into the hybrid fold Vi. My wife has the Escape hybrid and I was disappointed in that they replaced it with the C-Max. Though my wife current commute is mostly highway so I doubt we'll being getting another hybrid. My commute is all local so my Fusion hybrid works great. Just two tanks of gas a month.

 

[vi edit]

How tall are you? I'm 6'4" and looking for a carseat-friendly car with room in the back. I've got one front-facing and one rear facing now.

I'm 6' and leggy. C-Max has an enormous amount of headroom. It favors tall torso's more than long legs. When my wife is driving there's a cavernous amount of room behind the driver seat and the back seat. When I'm driving it starts to shrink quite a bit. What helps seating position and seat travel is the seat height. The C-max sits *VERY* high up. Almost like a minivan seating. So you won't have to push the seat back as much as a chair that sits on the floor like in a typical sedan.

This car is very car seat friendly for two reasons. First is because of the doors. The back doors are very short. They don't open wide at all so you can get into some fairly tight spaces with them. But the other reason is the height of the opening and the height of the cabin. It's a TALL car. In the Camry I'd usually whack my son's head once a week getting him in and out of his forward facing seat. With the Cmax the seating position is perfect for getting him out and the opening height is so big that you can pull them out with room to spare.

I don't think you'd be able to get a rear facing seat behind you though. But short of a minivan there's not many cars that would accomidate a 6'4 driver and rear facing seat.

Even with the forward facing one you are still going to feel feet in your back. It's just not an exceptionally long car. It's technically classified as a sub-compact I think.

 

[Scarpozzi]

I'm 6' and leggy. C-Max has an enormous amount of headroom. It favors tall torso's more than long legs. When my wife is driving there's a cavernous amount of room behind the driver seat and the back seat. When I'm driving it starts to shrink quite a bit. What helps seating position and seat travel is the seat height. The C-max sits *VERY* high up. Almost like a minivan seating. So you won't have to push the seat back as much as a chair that sits on the floor like in a typical sedan.

This car is very car seat friendly for two reasons. First is because of the doors. The back doors are very short. They don't open wide at all so you can get into some fairly tight spaces with them. But the other reason is the height of the opening and the height of the cabin. It's a TALL car. In the Camry I'd usually whack my son's head once a week getting him in and out of his forward facing seat. With the Cmax the seating position is perfect for getting him out and the opening height is so big that you can pull them out with room to spare.

I don't think you'd be able to get a rear facing seat behind you though. But short of a minivan there's not many cars that would accomidate a 6'4 driver and rear facing seat.

Even with the forward facing one you are still going to feel feet in your back. It's just not an exceptionally long car. It's technically classified as a sub-compact I think.

That's a helpful response. When I see one 'in-person', it'll help me understand the sizing. I notice they roll on 17" alloys stock. It makes the pictures difficult to trust. These days cars keep getting bigger and bigger to help convince people to upgrade. You see this clearly when comparing last gen of the Suburu Outback to the current gen.

My wife drives a fairly new 4Runner (few years old). It is great for a family hauler, but the 3rd row doesn't help unless the back is emptied out.

I've been hauling my daughter in my F150 regular cab the past 2 weeks, so she's been right next to me. It's been nice because we hold hands at red lights, etc and despite her being up there, I feel she's just as safe or safer as in any car.

I'm looking at a mix of sub-luxury cars, minivans, and crossovers. It's a really tough decision. I found the CMax priced in around $27-28k new with leather. I can get a non-leather Sienna LE for that....or Odyssey for maybe $29k-30k. The used market looks like a $20k minimum investment to get anything with less than 50k miles.

I've looked at Ford Fusion, Taurus, VW Passat TDI SE, VW CC, and Buick LaCrosse for cars.
I've looked at Ford Explorer, GMC Acadia, GMC Terrain, and Toyota Highlander for SUVs.
Sienna and Odyssey for minivans.

I've considered a Dodge/Chrysler minivan for a temporary investment (3-4 year ownership), but haven't had any luck convincing myself or my wife to trust Dodge after seeing the rust that's developing under the paint of our neighbor's and coworker's 2004-2006 vehicles from Chrysler. I'm not too keen ont he styling of the Grand Caravan either.


My wish list is low miles, under $25k, bluetooth, xm radio, alloy wheels, and leather seats. My must haves is clearly front and rear legroom to compensate for my height and the carseats. The bluetooth/xm wants pretty much throw me into the 2009 or newer bracket. Leather throws it into the non-base models...but I can always add leather if I can buy the covers on ebay. Everything else means little to me.

 

[vi edit]

Yeah, I traded "down" from a Sienna for the C-Max. Definitely gave up a pile of room. I think I could drive the CMax into the back of the Sienna and haul it around.

Ok it's not that big...but still. Minivans are enormous. I went from a 35' long garage stall to a 20' long one. My van would have taken up every inch of that stall plus the width of it. Plus it would have got me about 15MPG in my daily driving. And in a very busy city I just wanted something a bit more agile/manueverable.

I miss the ability to haul big stuff. And I'm going to miss it come family vacation times. But 340+ other days of the year the C-Max is a perfectly good car for us.

Have you looked at the Mazda5's? Can get a grand touring version of them for around $25k and get all your "needs". They may be a bit short on leg space for you though if your height is your legs.

 

[JulesMaximus]

Wanted to give a 1.5 month update on the car.

Really, really like it. My wife has a 2012 Camry and it's night and day when I go between the two vehicles. The C-max is rolling vault. The lack of noise in the cabin is surreal. There is virtually zero road noise, external noise is incredibly damped. The only time there's anything coming from under the hood is when the ICE is getting warmed up or it kicks in when on a hill or heavy acceleration.

Then when you combine the lack of noise with the weight of the car...it just feels like it's a car that should be a high end luxury class.

Going back to the camry feels like dropping from first class back to economy seating.

I'm learning how to do the "pulse and glide" technique and getting the most out of the battery without being a total hypermiling dick to others on the road. The other day I did a 30 mile country drive through rolling hills and averaged 55MPG on the drive. In town when the engine is warm I can get 60-70MPG in stop and go traffic.

I've got 2300 miles on the car and working on averaging 43MPG. My morning commute is about 4 miles of 45-55MPH spurts with some stop and go. The afternoon is more of a stoplight crawl. In the morning I get about 38MPG due to the speeds and the direction (it's mostly a climb) and the fact that the engine is cold from sitting overnight. In the afternoon it's closer to 50MPG as I'm using the battery more and regenerating more from braking.

I've got very little complaints about the My Ford Touch system. My biggest complaint is entering the addresses on the nav system. It's a pain. Typing sucks and trying to say a name takes about 3 attempts before it understands. Not thrilled with that. But it's a very large, nice looking map once it is enabled. It's got the best phone integration and call quality I've used in a car.

Ford has a little gem on their hands here. It's really a car that most people would prefer over a Prius really. It's not in your face with the hybrid tech, it's very upscale for it's class, and overall one of the least compromised hybrids you will find. If you slam the gas the thing will really chirps the wheels too! It's got some grunt if you dig into it.

I'm impressed. Between my change in commutes and this car I'm going from almost $200 a month in gas to about $40 now.

Not much better in the Toyota I'm afraid and you can't do it when the vehicle is moving and voice command is useless for anything other than just basic commands like "call home" or "call [name]" it usually gets that right at least or if it didn't understand the name and associate it with a contact in your phonebook it usually picks the closest ones and it asks you to choose the one you want.

I have just under 28,000 miles on my 2012 Camry Hybrid XLE. Still really loving this car for the most part. It is quiet, smooth and comfortable and it is averaging about 38-39mpg. My commute is half freeway and traffic isn't too bad so I'm actually going 70-75 for most of it and as such my average fuel economy is probably a little lower than it could be. When I do hit stop and go traffic or city driving I see low to mid 40s easily.

I wish I could just throw my mountain bike in the back rather than hassle with a trailer hitch rack because that actually does affect my fuel economy, especially on the freeway.

 

[Scarpozzi]

Yeah, I traded "down" from a Sienna for the C-Max. Definitely gave up a pile of room. I think I could drive the CMax into the back of the Sienna and haul it around.

Ok it's not that big...but still. Minivans are enormous. I went from a 35' long garage stall to a 20' long one. My van would have taken up every inch of that stall plus the width of it. Plus it would have got me about 15MPG in my daily driving. And in a very busy city I just wanted something a bit more agile/manueverable.

I miss the ability to haul big stuff. And I'm going to miss it come family vacation times. But 340+ other days of the year the C-Max is a perfectly good car for us.

Have you looked at the Mazda5's? Can get a grand touring version of them for around $25k and get all your "needs". They may be a bit short on leg space for you though if your height is your legs.

Check your local Toyota dealer or local car rental places for Sienna/minivan rentals. You may have to book a few months in advance, but for $400-450 a week, you can rent a Sienna for long trips and not have to worry about actually owning it the other 51 weeks of the year. I was going to book a rental to try one out, but they said they didn't have any available...I just didn't think about it until last minute.

I'll check Mazda. I saw a 5 on the road not too long ago and was impressed by the size. It's hard to strike that balance between legroom, mpg, and cost. My biggest concern is that I'll pick something and my wife will hate it, it will break down, and I'll hear the 'I told ya sos'. She hates my Buick Regal, but it has been pretty decent. I'm considering another Buick, but the Verano/Regals now are smaller than what I've got. I want something that size or bigger, so crossovers or vans make sense(considering we already have a SUV) if I can come to terms with the different style.

 

[Tweak155]

This may be of interest to you:

http://forums.anandtech.com/showthread.php?t=2387130

 

[JulesMaximus]

This may be of interest to you:

http://forums.anandtech.com/showthread.php?t=2387130

Summary:

http://www.businessweek.com/news/2014-06-12/ford-lowers-hybrid-mileage-ratings-for-a-second-time

Ford Motor Co. (F:US) lowered fuel-economy estimates on some of its cars for the second time in less than a year, citing a computer-modeling error, and promised to compensate more than 200,000 customers.

Six models are affected, including the C-Max Hybrid, which is now rated at 40 miles per gallon overall, the Dearborn, Michigan-based company said in a statement today. That’s down from an estimate revised lower last year to 43 mpg from 47 mpg.

Payments to customers will be as high as $1,050 to owners of the Lincoln MKZ Hybrid and as low as $200 to owners of the Fiesta with a 1-liter engine, the company said. Other models include the Fusion Hybrid, the C-Max Energi and the Fusion Energi.

Video: TV Adjusts Ratings to Reflect Digital Media Reality

“This is our error,” Raj Nair, Ford’s group vice president for global product development, said in a conference call. “When we see an issue, we address it.”

 

[vi edit]

This may be of interest to you:

http://forums.anandtech.com/showthread.php?t=2387130

Interesting. Says I'll get $475 back. Mine had already corrected the window sticker I think. The Fusion is 47/47. I think they put mine at 45/40 (highway).

That's still optimistic. There's no way it pulls 42 on the highway. It's closer to 37-38 @ 65MPH.

(edit) Missed the recalculated figures and I would vouch for their validity. They say it's now 42/37. That's a nice, conservative estimate. If I did mostly intown driving I could pretty easily exceed those numbers.

 

[tortillasoup]

I really wish the EPA would investigate the Fusion Hybrid. Unfortunately giving the EPA the excuse that they took the Fusion hybrid numbers and pasted it on the C-Max b/c of the same engine was a good enough excuse for the EPA to only investigate the C-Max but not the Fusion hybrid. If the EPA actually investigated the Fusion hybrid, they would see that those numbers are inflated as well.

 

[Midwayman]

Check your local Toyota dealer or local car rental places for Sienna/minivan rentals. You may have to book a few months in advance, but for $400-450 a week, you can rent a Sienna for long trips and not have to worry about actually owning it the other 51 weeks of the year. I was going to book a rental to try one out, but they said they didn't have any available...I just didn't think about it until last minute.

This is the ticket for any car purchase I think. Buy what you need 90% of the time. Rent that truck or minivan for the few times a year you need it.

 

[slag]

And to appeal to the "why spend money on a hybrid?!?!" crowd...

As gas creeps close to $4 a gallon my van would get around 15MPG in the brutal stop and crawl traffic I'll be dealing with. With this thing I'll be getting closer to 45MPG or more. Over 9000 miles a year it basically pays the car payment in gas savings.

Glad you like it. Seriously, its nice to find a car that gets good mileage and one you like to drive.

As for me, I'll stick with my full size V8 truck.
For me, comfort and bells and whistles are more important than mileage but I know that is not true for many people.

 

[Scarpozzi]

This is the ticket for any car purchase I think. Buy what you need 90% of the time. Rent that truck or minivan for the few times a year you need it.

I like having my reg cab truck though. It's as wasteful as a roadster for driving, but really handy for as much as I haul big stuff in the bed. Best part of a reg cab is there's not enough room for the family so it's mine....my own man space.

 

[SearchMaster]

Glad you like it. Seriously, its nice to find a car that gets good mileage and one you like to drive.

As for me, I'll stick with my full size V8 truck.
For me, comfort and bells and whistles are more important than mileage but I know that is not true for many people.

I still like my small cars I recently went to Indianapolis for a baseball tournament, and rented a car through Thrifty's "wild card" program, where the vehicle is guaranteed mid-size or better but changes hourly. I ended up with a brand new F-150 super crew 4x4 (about $40K I think). It's a very nice truck but still not my style. I loved the HUMONGOUS gas tank but 16.5MPG (driving pretty conservatively) was awful and it was hard to park since you can't see the lines over the hood. The reverse camera was a necessity though and took the intimidation out of backing out of parking spaces. For $12/day it was hard to beat.

 

[A5]

I really wish the EPA would investigate the Fusion Hybrid. Unfortunately giving the EPA the excuse that they took the Fusion hybrid numbers and pasted it on the C-Max b/c of the same engine was a good enough excuse for the EPA to only investigate the C-Max but not the Fusion hybrid. If the EPA actually investigated the Fusion hybrid, they would see that those numbers are inflated as well.

If you read the article, they lowered the numbers on the Fusion Hybrid as well.

 

[tortillasoup]

If you read the article, they lowered the numbers on the Fusion Hybrid as well.

Yeah I didn't see that article until I read in another thread about it.

 

[BigSmooth]

vi_edit - I'm pretty much a ghost of AnandTech past at this point , but I ran across this thread and was wondering how you're liking the C-Max a few more months in. Have any more pros or cons cropped up?

I've got a 3 year old kid and another on the way, and I am looking to replace our 06 TL soon. Our other car is an 07 Forester XT, and I'm likely to also replace that in the near future with either a minivan (probably overkill for now) or, more likely, a newer small/midsize SUV for towing/camping/hauling purposes.

The TL replacement is something we'd mostly be using around town, and I've been looking at lots of different wagons and crossovers. We'd like something quiet, reliable, decently quick, with enough room for 4 to be comfortable. We definitely want something with a liftgate so it's easy to throw something like a stroller in back. High MPG is certainly a plus. Importantly, we need to keep the front seat passenger from crushing their knees when a rear facing infant safety seat is installed (both of our current cars were pretty awful in this regard with our first kid, even though my wife is only 5'3").
I've looked at a lot of options both new and used. The C-Max came up but I was concerned it was too small (I've only been in one briefly at a car show). However, from your description it would seem to fit the bill quite well. The rear seat isn't huge on paper, but the more upright seating positions appear to give more room than you'd think for an RF car seat in back.

I'm eligible for X-Plan pricing and there are additional stackable incentives on MY 2014s which will likely increase as more MY 2015s are produced. I'd probably stick to the Hybrid despite the better incentives and tax rebate on the Energi - love the all-EV mode for short trips, but the extra batteries really hurt trunk space. Resale looks average-ish, but with all the discounts the upfront pricing is pretty compelling (and I tend to keep my cars for a long time anyway).

I think the main thing that concerns me is the long-term reliability. Some publications have slammed Ford's reliability lately, but I am not sure how much of that can be attributed to My Ford Touch, or if there is truly a high chance of mechanical problems.
Particularly in light of the issues with your Focus, are there any common concerns on the C-Max forums that gave you pause before buying, or that worry you now?

 

[vi edit]

Hey Biggie! Glad you are still around and family is growing!


I still love the C-Max. Most of my initial impressions in the original post are still valid. I've got about 6500 miles on the car now, of which is a good blend of city and highway. We've since moved to a bigger city where almost all of our daily driving is in a stop & go setting. It's a 12 mile round trip each day for us and we have a lifetime average of 39.7MPG on the car. We now live in Lexington, KY which is a fairly rolling hill area. When out on the edges of town I can do 20 mile trips that are average speeds of around 50MPH and get economy of around 55MPG. It does very well in a "rolling" environment. It's at it's worst on flat interstate driving at speeds over 70MPH. Economy drops down into high 30's then.

So far it's been flawless mechanically. Only quirk I've had is a few times the touch button start gets flakey and doesn't want to engage the drive mechanism. You can shift the car into drive, but it still thinks it's off. Some part is driver error maybe not having the brake pedal engaged fully, but other times I think the system is just confused. It's only done it a few times and it always works the 2nd time you hit the start button. I really do like the My Ford Touch system and how it is implemented in the C-Max. The only system controls it runs are the Nav and music options. It's not required for HVAC controls as those have their own physical buttons. It's a huge screen that is easy to use and the Nav works good enough. I'm a bit let down by the Sony system since they chose to omit a sub in the setup. There's not much of a low end punch to it. But it's clear, easy to use, and has a great variety of input and control.

My only other complaint is the turn radius. It's a turd to turn. Seriously. For as small as it is, the turn radius is comically bad.

Outside of those, it's still an awesome little car to shuffle my family about. It's very particular to driving styles. When I drive I can get 50MPG trip averages. When my wife drives it's 40MPG. I've got a 6 year old and a 3 year old and both are satisfied with the back seat space. The booster seat for my 6 year old is actually worse than the rear facing infant seats. It's just in how it raises up their seating position and drives their legs higher into the front seats.

There's definitely not as much room for my older kid in the back seat of the C-max than there is in our Camry. Trunk space is also a bit of a compromise. It's a flexible storage space for larger, bulky items. But when the seats are up it's fairly limited in actual square footage. We have a "Bob" stroller and it takes up the entire hatch space. Putting the same stroller in the trunk of the Camry and we only fill up about half the space there. It's not a replacement for a Mini-van by any means and we certainly feel the space pinch on vacations and the few times we needed to buy large items. But the economy makes up for it and the fact that for 95% of our driving needs it works fine. It also takes up a lot less space in the garage.

Since moving to a new city and getting different jobs my wife and I can carpool now most days of the week. We literally fill up once a month now. I can get over 450 miles out of 10 gallons of gas and that's about how far we drive a month. That's been nice. We're spending less in gas in a month now than we were in a week at our last place.