I've changed my mind on impeachment

[HomerJS]

I don't want Trump impeached. Let the Mueller be completed and released. Democrats hold all the oversight hearings you need. Let all the facts come out in public.

I'm convinced the facts about Donald Trump will leave him so bloodied and bruised he will either lose badly in 2020 or resign before the election. Pence will pardon him and lose assuming he is the 2020 nominee. If Trump quits he will do it too late for Republicans to be rescued by the likes of Romney or Kasich (the only 2 Republicans that would have a shot.)

This process allows people to correct their horrible fuck up of 2016. Besides even if Trump is impeached you will NEVER get 2/3 in the Senate for removal.

Assuming he runs and loses the 2020 election, Trump will resign before the end of term so Pence can pardon. Once out prosecute his ass and his family to the fullest extent of the law. He may not get impeached but his so called empire can be stripped of its assets. He needs to do jail time. Correct the mistake of Nixon. Future Presidents have to know there will be consequences for selling out your country.

 

[ivwshane]

I don't think he should be impeached until Mueller finishes his report either. To try now makes it political and partisan and weakens a tool that's already been weakened by republican politics when they impeached Clinton. Focus on keeping trump in check while continuing to address the issues and let republicans hang themselves with their unwillingness to compromise and do their jobs. Democrats don't need to show the country that they can be as horrible as Republicans, they need to show the country what they could have with a competent government.

 

[Jaskalas]

I'm convinced the facts about Donald Trump will leave him so bloodied and bruised he will [...] resign before the election.

Can I have whatever you're smoking?

Not kidding, you're on something rather than onto something. How on god's green earth did you conceive of that POS admitting fault and surrendering power? It is not within his personality. One of his many flaws is a complete and utter detachment from reality. His recourse is not to feel shame, it is to demand the use of force to serve his own ends.

 

[sportage]

Well, now that Pelosi controls the house, what the hell is Mueller waiting for?
Surely Mueller has all he needs, more than all he needs to send Donald up the river FOR A LONG LONG TIME.
And Pelosi is just the gal to do that.
So come on Mueller, come clean. Cough it up for gods sake. Enough with mystery and intrigue.
WE NEED TO KNOW what YOU know, as Robert Redford once said.

Still, we needn't sell Trump short.
We're talking about one of the greatest con men of all time. Possibly the greatest cult leader of all time as well.
We can't imagine what Trump may have up his sleeve should the wolves show up at the door.
For example... Trump could promise to legalize pot nation wide. Or enact term limits for all of congress both house and senate. Or, build an even higher wall with disco lights.
And should all that fail for Donald, he still has his finger.
That finger on the nuclear button.
Like a trapped desperate crazed animal, when the enemy closes in the animal only becomes more panicked.
I doubt very much any of us can imagine how crazed and desperate this animal could become.
I think we'd all mess our pants at the horrors Donald Trump is truly capable of.
Lets just hope Nancy Pelosi can and will protects us all from that horror.

 

[Sonikku]

I don't want Trump impeached. Let the Mueller be completed and released. Democrats hold all the oversight hearings you need. Let all the facts come out in public.

I'm convinced the facts about Donald Trump will leave him so bloodied and bruised he will either lose badly in 2020 or resign before the election. Pence will pardon him and lose assuming he is the 2020 nominee. If Trump quits he will do it too late for Republicans to be rescued by the likes of Romney or Kasich (the only 2 Republicans that would have a shot.)

This process allows people to correct their horrible fuck up of 2016. Besides even if Trump is impeached you will NEVER get 2/3 in the Senate for removal.

Assuming he runs and loses the 2020 election, Trump will resign before the end of term so Pence can pardon. Once out prosecute his ass and his family to the fullest extent of the law. He may not get impeached but his so called empire can be stripped of its assets. He needs to do jail time. Correct the mistake of Nixon. Future Presidents have to know there will be consequences for selling out your country.

I on the other hand don't believe there will be a "breaking point" for conservatives. I expect them to support Trump no matter what he does, no matter how much worse off they become, no matter what. They will show up in droves to vote for him and by extension his party if for no other reason than to spite liberals.

 

[GodisanAtheist]

At the end of the day, I want what's best for the American people.

If removing Trump prevents further harm, then that's what needs to happen.

On the other hand, if Dems can squeeze out a bunch of good for the country concessions out of Trump by just hammering on him ceaselessly then even better.

If Dems can somehow do both, that's best...

 

[Sonikku]

Getting concessions out of Trump is like squeezing blood out of a turnip. When he won't deal because he's afraid it will make him look bad, you know he doesn't he cares more about his self image than the people hurt by his refusal to budge.

 

[cytg111]

Spam Senate with impeachment proceedings, let one scandal after another roll over the headlines .. For the love of god, get that "man" away from the buttons ASAP .. dont meta-plan-poloticise this.. Get im out!

 

[mikeymikec]

The report should only be issued when it's complete, unless there's something entirely unexpected to reveal that absolutely necessitates its early release for the safety of the US.

I can only hope that its evidence base and allegations are so strong and extreme that even the GOP's most ardent supporters have to question the assertions of their chief bullshitter and start casting off the shackles of the lies that they've embraced.

 

[Sonikku]

The report should only be issued when it's complete, unless there's something entirely unexpected to reveal that absolutely necessitates its early release for the safety of the US.

I can only hope that its evidence base and allegations are so strong and extreme that even the GOP's most ardent supporters have to question the assertions of their chief bullshitter and start casting off the shackles of the lies that they've embraced.

I hope so too, but I'm pessimistic. After two years 90% of conservative voters still support Trump. For these people I frankly don't think there is a breaking point, no matter how damning. And so long as the conservative base doesn't budge, the political cost for Republicans to continue backing him in such an outcome is probably less than the cost of holding him accountable.

 

[Thump553]

I wouldn't be so anxious to rush Mueller. This is not a TV show that has to be wrapped up within the hour. Trump is well experienced in hiding evidence and the trail of evidence-he has been hiding stuff from the IRS and other authorities since the beginning of his career. Remember too that his mentor was Roy Cohn, the Babe Ruth of obstructors. To be generous to Trump he has been at least skirting the law for decades. And assuming Trump had at least some help and advise from the Russian spy services, Mueller is facing a really tough nut to crack. Mueller's team has reams and reams of complicated financial transactions to examine and decode, 99.9% of which are probably completely normal.

I'll hold my opinion on impeachment for now. But so far Trump has demonstrated an unprecedented level of both moral and financial corruption as President. To accept that as the new norm and let it go unpunished is the wrong direction for this country to be headed.

 

[shortylickens]

I don't want Trump impeached. Let the Mueller be completed and released. Democrats hold all the oversight hearings you need. Let all the facts come out in public.

I'm convinced the facts about Donald Trump will leave him so bloodied and bruised he will either lose badly in 2020 or resign before the election. Pence will pardon him and lose assuming he is the 2020 nominee. If Trump quits he will do it too late for Republicans to be rescued by the likes of Romney or Kasich (the only 2 Republicans that would have a shot.)

This process allows people to correct their horrible fuck up of 2016. Besides even if Trump is impeached you will NEVER get 2/3 in the Senate for removal.

Assuming he runs and loses the 2020 election, Trump will resign before the end of term so Pence can pardon. Once out prosecute his ass and his family to the fullest extent of the law. He may not get impeached but his so called empire can be stripped of its assets. He needs to do jail time. Correct the mistake of Nixon. Future Presidents have to know there will be consequences for selling out your country.

In 2016 it was very obvious the guy was a huge piece of shit. Yet 62 million people voted for him anyway.
In 2020 they will again do what they've been doing: Deny, deflect, blame, rage, ignore, and vote for the piece of shit a second time.

Democrats need to nominate a decent human being and strong political contender if they wanna win.
No such person exists. Or if they do, the Democrats can't find them and wouldn't put them up anyway. They'll fuck over the next guy like they fucked Bernie Sanders and they'll lose again. Lose to someone who would not normally even be electable.

 

[mikeymikec]

I hope so too, but I'm pessimistic. After two years 90% of conservative voters still support Trump. For these people I frankly don't think there is a breaking point, no matter how damning. And so long as the conservative base doesn't budge, the political cost for Republicans to continue backing him in such an outcome is probably less than the cost of holding him accountable.

Reminds me of Fight Club and "applying the formula":

 

[Sonikku]

I wouldn't be so anxious to rush Mueller. This is not a TV show that has to be wrapped up within the hour. Trump is well experienced in hiding evidence and the trail of evidence-he has been hiding stuff from the IRS and other authorities since the beginning of his career. Remember too that his mentor was Roy Cohn, the Babe Ruth of obstructors. To be generous to Trump he has been at least skirting the law for decades. And assuming Trump had at least some help and advise from the Russian spy services, Mueller is facing a really tough nut to crack. Mueller's team has reams and reams of complicated financial transactions to examine and decode, 99.9% of which are probably completely normal.

I'll hold my opinion on impeachment for now. But so far Trump has demonstrated an unprecedented level of both moral and financial corruption as President. To accept that as the new norm and let it go unpunished is the wrong direction for this country to be headed.

The wrong direction for the world, perhaps. But not necessarily the party. If the GoP can hold onto minority rule no matter how much things go to shit, then perhaps for the elites it will be worth it.

 

[Viper1j]

How on god's green earth did you conceive of that POS admitting fault and surrendering power? It is not within his personality. One of his many flaws is a complete and utter detachment from reality. His recourse is not to feel shame, it is to demand the use of force to serve his own ends.

One thing of Trump's, that is in perfect working order, is his sense of self-preservation. Like most jackals, he can smell trouble coming a mile away. It wouldn't surprise me at all to see him abandon ship, in order to guarantee himself a pardon.

The thing is, Pence can only do that for federal charges. And there are several states Attorney Generals looking at him, and it only takes one of them to put him away.

 

[dank69]

I agree @HomerJS, but for different reasons. America does not deserve to be saved from its awful decisions. If America wants Trump to continue fucking shit up straight through 2024, then give the people what they want. We can continue taking his private toys away and put him in jail and poorhouse after he is done for his crimes against humanity.

In 2016 it was very obvious the guy was a huge piece of shit. Yet 62 million people voted for him anyway.
In 2020 they will again do what they've been doing: Deny, deflect, blame, rage, ignore, and vote for the piece of shit a second time.

Democrats need to nominate a decent human being and strong political contender if they wanna win.
No such person exists. Or if they do, the Democrats can't find them and wouldn't put them up anyway. They'll fuck over the next guy like they fucked Bernie Sanders and they'll lose again. Lose to someone who would not normally even be electable.

The fact that Democrats need to put up a "strong political contender" in order to beat a piece of shit like Trump says everything you need to know about the state of mind of all Americans. Everyone knows liberals are handicapped by gerrymandering, voter suppression and even voter fraud these days, along with the new phenomenon of hamstringing incoming liberal politicians on the way out the door, but the biggest issue is really the mass brainwashing of the past few decades. Americans hate liberals down to their core at this point. It is as natural as breathing coal infused air.

 

[HomerJS]

Can I have whatever you're smoking?

Not kidding, you're on something rather than onto something. How on god's green earth did you conceive of that POS admitting fault and surrendering power? It is not within his personality. One of his many flaws is a complete and utter detachment from reality. His recourse is not to feel shame, it is to demand the use of force to serve his own ends.

Nah, stone sober when wrote this. We all know Trump doesn't admit fault for ANYTHING. If he resigns or doesn't run for re-election there will be either blame on others or he will just claim victory and go home. His pride wouldn't be able to stand a trouncing in 2020. He also knows Pence is required for his pardon.

 

[Sonikku]

I would agree with Dank more if I were living in another country like Germany or Denmark and only had to watch the insanity unfold here from afar. But as a liberal and transwoman, I still need to live here. And I will continue to push against this descent until that changes.

 

[Hayabusa Rider]

Nah, stone sober when wrote this. We all know Trump doesn't admit fault for ANYTHING. If he resigns or doesn't run for re-election there will be either blame on others or he will just claim victory and go home. His pride wouldn't be able to stand a trouncing in 2020. He also knows Pence is required for his pardon.

Considering the damage done already it would be outright stupid to let it continue. Not only does Trump continue to erode institutions he shows that they don't matter and every President can do what Trump has done.

If you really believe what you are saying then please do not say one bad word against Trump and his Republicans because you support them no matter how you may say otherwise.

 

[Fanatical Meat]

One thing of Trump's, that is in perfect working order, is his sense of self-preservation. Like most jackals, he can smell trouble coming a mile away. It wouldn't surprise me at all to see him abandon ship, in order to guarantee himself a pardon.

The thing is, Pence can only do that for federal charges. And there are several states Attorney Generals looking at him, and it only takes one of them to put him away.

Pence is too much of a boy scout to do this however it would be epic if Trump resigns then President Pence refuses to issue a pardon.

 

[zinfamous]

The report should only be issued when it's complete, unless there's something entirely unexpected to reveal that absolutely necessitates its early release for the safety of the US.

I can only hope that its evidence base and allegations are so strong and extreme that even the GOP's most ardent supporters have to question the assertions of their chief bullshitter and start casting off the shackles of the lies that they've embraced.

THe evidence that has already been released is quite strong and extreme, yet his supporters still believe that Mueller is actually investigating the Clintons and that they are the real demons.

This is the reality we live in.

Nothing Mueller does will ever convince his brainless twat supporters that Trump is an illegitimate president, and a wretched human being. Their eyes already don't work, how are their brains suddenly supposed to be jump-started into consciousness?

The USA will depend on the will of Republicans in the Senate to do what is right for the country and act accordingly. ....something that they have no history of doing for any year that they have ever been in power. So, yeah.

 

[mikeymikec]

THe evidence that has already been released is quite strong and extreme

For the average person, sure. One need only watch that video of Trump admitting to obstruction of justice and his continual rants on Twitter to know that he has some serious fucking skeletons in his closet and that he believes the investigation will uncover them.

, yet his supporters still believe that Mueller is actually investigating the Clintons and that they are the real demons.

This is the reality we live in.

Nothing Mueller does will ever convince his brainless twat supporters that Trump is an illegitimate president, and a wretched human being. Their eyes already don't work, how are their brains suddenly supposed to be jump-started into consciousness?

The USA will depend on the will of Republicans in the Senate to do what is right for the country and act accordingly. ....something that they have no history of doing for any year that they have ever been in power. So, yeah.

Perhaps you're right, we shall see.

Leela: Alright, break it up, you two!
[She puts them on the couch.]
Nixon: That's it. You're all going to jail. And don't expect me to grant a pardon like that sissy, Ford.

Leela: You'll never pardon anybody because you'll never get elected president. The voters of Earth aren't the pea-brained idiots they were back in your time.

Nixon: Oh, no? Well, listen here, missy. Computers may be twice as fast as they were in 1973 but your average voter is as drunk and stupid as ever. The only one who's changed is me. I've become bitter and, let's face it, crazy over the years. And once I'm swept into office, I'll sell our children's organs to zoos for meat and I'll go into people's houses at night and wreck up the place.
[He cackles.]
Fry: Well, he lost my vote.

Nixon: Like one vote ever made a difference. Now, if you'll excuse me, I'm going to inch myself over to the phone and call the police.
[He starts hopping his way over.]
Bender: Not so fast, Nixon! Are you familiar with audio tape?
[He rewinds a tape in his head.]
Nixon: Uh-oh. I don't like where this is heading.

Nixon: [on tape] And I'll go into people's houses at night and wreck up the place!
[He cackles.]
Nixon: My God? I really sound like that? I thought my voice had more of a Clark Gable quality.
[Leela takes the tape out of Bender's mouth.]
Leela: The jig's up, Nixon. We'll trade you the tape for the body.

Nixon: Oh, expletive deleted. You've got a deal.

 

[HomerJS]

Considering the damage done already it would be outright stupid to let it continue. Not only does Trump continue to erode institutions he shows that they don't matter and every President can do what Trump has done.

If you really believe what you are saying then please do not say one bad word against Trump and his Republicans because you support them no matter how you may say otherwise.

On the contrary, what Trump has done to the country needs to be hung high like a lamp post. It's the only way people will realize their fuck up. I'm referring to people who voted for Trump or stayed home because they hated or were uninspired by Hillary. There's a percentage of Trump's base that can never be reached so screw them. If there is a rush to impeach it will always be labeled as illegitimate. Like alcoholics and drug addicts, sometimes bottoming out is required before recovery can take hold.

I do realize depending on the results of the Mueller report and the upcoming House hearings, impeachment may be required. IMO, weakening him so much he loses in 2020 or quits before, is the best way his ouster will have the most credibility. We can then move to trying and jailing his orange ass.

 

[Viper1j]

This is the reality we live in.

Nothing Mueller does will ever convince his brainless twat supporters that Trump is an illegitimate president, and a wretched human being. .

I disagree.. They know exactly who and what he is. And they're happy! Because they can finally say, that in the White House they have..

 

[Hayabusa Rider]

On the contrary, what Trump has done to the country needs to be hung high like a lamp post.

So we let things get even worse (because they can) and then say "See! We let this man attack the nation so you can see how bad he is"? That what you are saying. Let's have a little more corruption, world chaos and environmental damage while ruining the Executive Branch and destroying world order such as it is.


I'm thinking things are bad enough without adding more harm as what is being raised on the pole is the suffering we allowed that we might have stopped.

Doesn't work for millions of those who will be impacted.