It is up to the teacher untill they do some crazy crap like this. Some college professors seem to feel that teaching is an undo burden on them and thus they will make the students suffer. I had a teacher that would not let a girl make up a test when she had mono, she physically could not get out of bed to take the test, let alone study. He said no, she went to the dean, he still said no, she went to the ombudsman he still said no, she went to the president with the ombudsman who informed the professor that he was on his way out if he did not allow a make up. She was given one week to prepare for the make up. If it was an important quiz and it is worth really making the guy angry and having him give you a hard time the rest of the term, then take it all the way to the top. If its just a little attendance quiz that will probably only count if you miss too many of them anyways, don't bother.
No, I just think you are a typical moron. No respect is due to a terrible Professor. I went to the class tonight for my first test. There are two people with Masters in Math auditing th class. Both said they plan to talk to the Department head about his lack of teaching skill. I can't think of a single student who hasn't complained about his methods and him being a general jackass. He's a smart-ass to all the students, and makes simple things incredibly difficult. You don't know the situation, some I'm forced to conclude your a moron. And I do respect Professors -- just not asshole ones.
Nuh uh. This is about whether he was justified or not in disallowing you to retake that quiz, NOT about how good/bad of a teacher he is, or even how much you respect him. If you truly believe that the issue here is the injustice of that, then you would be whining your ass off just as much were he the best professor you'd ever had.
No, the supposed fact that he's a bad teacher and that you don't respect him has nothing to do with the fact that you were wrong, you didn't make more effort to contact him, and he's perfectly justified in making you lose that 7% according to departmenta/college policy.
No, the supposed fact that he's a bad teacher and that you don't respect him has nothing to do with the fact that you were wrong, you didn't make more effort to contact him, and he's perfectly justified in making you lose that 7% according to departmenta/college policy.
I would talk to the department chair. I am not going to wade through this whole thread to find the answer, but did you notify the teacher in advance that you would be absent? It might have saved a lot of headaches......
dude, we all have bad professors....get over it already, no matter how much you complain its ultimately not up to you
Yeah, but you don't give respect to good professors either, based on your other posts. You think that professors are just a waste of space, that you can still do well in class without them. Actually, seems like you don't respect anybody except maybe your mom, from what I can see here. Have fun just cruising your way through college.
-Typical Moron
I'm glad you can make such indicting statements based on a few posts on a messageboard. I guess I'm just as guilty because you are a MORON. Point out where I said I didn't respect good professors. I said I didn't like the college system tht takes advantage of the student. Try reading it again.
what's funny is that there is no way that we should know that in such a disscussion. You came to us. We simply provide our experience or knowledge-based facts.
I am sorry, but I can hold it in no longer:
Only fvking imature little pricks insult someone concering information that surely they do not know. I bet you feeling really fvking pretty on your high horse by insulting everyone.
Most came into the thread giving you HONEST AND VAULABLE ADIVCE>...STUFF THAT IS NOT FVKING SCHOOL POLICY. IT IS COMMON SENSE, WHICH SCHOOL POLICIES TAKE FOR GRANTED ONLY WHEN THEY ARE NOT IMPORTANT.
yeesh. ..I was under the impression that you were just a stubborn young man or perhaps ignorant but somewhow willing to accept advice, but you proved me wrong.....with all the glamour of Hollywood.
<---unusally compassionate individual who bites...
I am sorry, but I can hold it in no longer:
Only fvking imature little pricks insult someone concering information that surely they do not know. I bet you feeling really fvking pretty on your high horse by insulting everyone.
Most came into the thread giving you HONEST AND VAULABLE ADIVCE>...STUFF THAT IS NOT FVKING SCHOOL POLICY. IT IS COMMON SENSE, WHICH SCHOOL POLICIES TAKE FOR GRANTED ONLY WHEN THEY ARE NOT IMPORTANT.
yeesh. ..I was under the impression that you were just a stubborn young man or perhaps ignorant but somewhow willing to accept advice, but you proved me wrong.....with all the glamour of Hollywood.
<---unusally compassionate individual who bites...
I'm so hurt. Wdaganuq flamed better than you do. WE know you think I'm wrong. You've said it hundreds of times. Now shut up. Jesus.
I didn't read all the responses to this thread, but I will say that it is only a pop quiz. You're grade can't possibly depend that heavily on the outcome of one pop quiz. Just take the zero and move on. Life's not fair, deal with it. If this incident gets you as worked up as you seem from the first post in this thread, you really should learn to relax more or you'll end up dying of a heart attack at age 40.
I'm not sure what's funnier - Mill's original rant, or all the people that got skoorbed into flaming him over it.
With a student population of magnitude 10k (im assuming its huge since you goto a public), you are merely a statistic to your school. They cant really review each student on a case by case basis, and they still need to reduce the size of applicants into whatever departments, so they will use a lot of (unfair?) methods to trim down the size.
Like you said, you could go to the Dean, but (and it seems like you realize this) it wont do a damn thing. If it will make you feel better that at least you "go down with a fight" then by all means use your energy and time doing so. It wont be for waste if it makes you feel better. But dont expect change, even if you make an impact on the dean. This type of stuff takes forever to go through... and you will be long gone by then so think about that beforehand.
In the end your undergrad is just a piece of paper. Basically a $30k receipt (to quote KRS-ONE). And this 1 class makes up a tiny little portion of it. And the grade from your quiz is an even smaller portion. Yes, the little pieces add up, but very rarely should you depend on them to be a game breaker for anything.
The degree, your gpa, all your undergrad crap just gets you your FIRST job interview. I have been told by my mentors at work that your interpersonal skills (communication and CONFLICT MANAGEMENT... might want to look a bit into the last one haha) and your network is what will get you the money and move you through the ranks.
I did the IB program in high school and that shite is hell. Seriously it is so freaking worthless after you get into college, and yet you see people in college who didnt do IB... they get to the same place as you with literally 10% the work! I tried to succeed in high school to get into college, i am getting my undergrad to get my first job, and from there i can move on. Every previous level is nearly useless once i get to the next. So unless you are intent on repeating the IB experience (killing yourself with school) just take it easy and let these little things slide.
And ive always hated profs like DAGTA. Because i would always argue with them, lose, and feel stupid (not ignorant). He brings up good points, you might want to look into doing more than "listening". He shares a lot of your disagreements of the way the university system works (aside from a few early notice policies), and as you progress through the system you will see that he has a strong basis for his disagreements and understand your role as a student.
Most profs do not become profs to teach but to do research. True, the state pays them some money to teach students, and they defintely would not have the resources they have without teaching students. But if they arent researching and getting grants they wont be at the uni anyways. So i think that it is true that a prof wouldnt have a job if it werent for the students, but they wouldnt have a job if they werent doing research and getting grants either. So its kind of a balancing act between the two... you as a student are not the center piece of what goes on in the university. Critical piece, maybe, but they would still be there in some form without you.
This post did not apply to your argument, just commenting on the overall subject. Thought that you might benefit from a little perspective on your general college situation (i did IB as well, not at your super hard school though, and went through similar experiences w/ profs), since you seem pretty pissed about missing a quiz.
I think i only have like 9 posts, so my .02 cents is like .02 pesos.
Jesus isnt here, and dont tell him to shut up. (Sorry just had to say that haha)
Like you said, you could go to the Dean, but (and it seems like you realize this) it wont do a damn thing. If it will make you feel better that at least you "go down with a fight" then by all means use your energy and time doing so. It wont be for waste if it makes you feel better. But dont expect change, even if you make an impact on the dean. This type of stuff takes forever to go through... and you will be long gone by then so think about that beforehand.
In the end your undergrad is just a piece of paper. Basically a $30k receipt (to quote KRS-ONE). And this 1 class makes up a tiny little portion of it. And the grade from your quiz is an even smaller portion. Yes, the little pieces add up, but very rarely should you depend on them to be a game breaker for anything.
The degree, your gpa, all your undergrad crap just gets you your FIRST job interview. I have been told by my mentors at work that your interpersonal skills (communication and CONFLICT MANAGEMENT... might want to look a bit into the last one haha) and your network is what will get you the money and move you through the ranks.
I did the IB program in high school and that shite is hell. Seriously it is so freaking worthless after you get into college, and yet you see people in college who didnt do IB... they get to the same place as you with literally 10% the work! I tried to succeed in high school to get into college, i am getting my undergrad to get my first job, and from there i can move on. Every previous level is nearly useless once i get to the next. So unless you are intent on repeating the IB experience (killing yourself with school) just take it easy and let these little things slide.
And ive always hated profs like DAGTA. Because i would always argue with them, lose, and feel stupid (not ignorant). He brings up good points, you might want to look into doing more than "listening". He shares a lot of your disagreements of the way the university system works (aside from a few early notice policies), and as you progress through the system you will see that he has a strong basis for his disagreements and understand your role as a student.
Most profs do not become profs to teach but to do research. True, the state pays them some money to teach students, and they defintely would not have the resources they have without teaching students. But if they arent researching and getting grants they wont be at the uni anyways. So i think that it is true that a prof wouldnt have a job if it werent for the students, but they wouldnt have a job if they werent doing research and getting grants either. So its kind of a balancing act between the two... you as a student are not the center piece of what goes on in the university. Critical piece, maybe, but they would still be there in some form without you.
This post did not apply to your argument, just commenting on the overall subject. Thought that you might benefit from a little perspective on your general college situation (i did IB as well, not at your super hard school though, and went through similar experiences w/ profs), since you seem pretty pissed about missing a quiz.
I think i only have like 9 posts, so my .02 cents is like .02 pesos.
Jesus isnt here, and dont tell him to shut up. (Sorry just had to say that haha)
well said broshiggie. I am kind of pissed off that I lost my tempter, but am glad that ther are people as calm as oyu to take the ball down the field.
Mill is just exhibiting such a great deal ofgnorance that it overwhellemed me. As most people will agree, he will learn all that in do time. College is quite the misinterpretation by a vast arrary of people.
Mill is just exhibiting such a great deal ofgnorance that it overwhellemed me. As most people will agree, he will learn all that in do time. College is quite the misinterpretation by a vast arrary of people.
I'm not being ignorant. I'm well aware of what all of you have said, but that doesn't mean it changes my mind that this professor was wrong.
From the outside looking in, I don't even understand what exactly you're all argueing about. Basicly Mill had fate give him a kick, and was upset just like any of us would be, reguardless of the written rules. His OP and poll was only semi-serious, yet some people took it as a place to run him down and point out his faults. Mill reponded with some major hostility that at times has become misaimed. Goose (and a few others) thought their advice was being thrown back in their face, or am I not correct so far?
Universities funded with public money hold a two-fold function. First, they're supposed to focus on teaching. Second, they're supposed to serve the needs of the state, but the intention is not to serve the scientific community at large. That is more of an afterthought, a mission carried out more by private institutions or at least set up that way. What they do and what they were founded for are very different.
There is a major problem in what modern colleges have become, from a problem that starts at public schools that graduate students who don't read. If I was teaching at a university I'd get sick of students in my classes who shouldn't have passed 8th grade. But to students who have the educational and intellectual background these widely held attitudes(of common profs) are a joke. I was lucky in college in that I could take some "honors" courses. They were great, teachers treated freshmen almost as equals, gave us plenty of slack, and I learned so much more in those classes. I also managed to ace those difficult honors classes with very large courseloads, yet had to retake calc 2 several times because the teachers were completely impotent at their craft.(didn't someone else mention that they did the same thing?)
I assume Mill is a student similar to me, and can completely understand where he's coming from, even through the hostile tone.
I'd guess many/most people on these boards that went through college experienced something similar, maybe not. Good students should not be punished by profs who don't want to teach, it's that simple. Most colleges today don't recognize that fact. One can argue all day about the "way it is" but that isn't the question, which is the "way it should be". Pop quizes and the like for attendence show a deformed relationship between the teachers and the students.
What's the leadership and direction of the administration at your school Mill? If they're truely dedicated to the process of advancing the knowledge of good students a fight may pay off. It's better than sitting there feeling helpless. If they're not, you're screwed, welcome to the club the meetings are at 7:00 PM every Thursday. If you find yourself in many similar situations and do have the education, consider a transfer. There are still a few sane colleges out there.
Anyhow, this thread is bringing up memories for me of walking out of lecture halls because the speaker was completely insane and under qualified for the position and power. That's just how I see it, could be wrong if Mill is a neo-facist PETA fanatic that wears dresses to class. If so, please send pictures.
btw, I agree with sysadmin, the rant/poll options were pretty good.
EDIT: forgot to /rant
Universities funded with public money hold a two-fold function. First, they're supposed to focus on teaching. Second, they're supposed to serve the needs of the state, but the intention is not to serve the scientific community at large. That is more of an afterthought, a mission carried out more by private institutions or at least set up that way. What they do and what they were founded for are very different.
There is a major problem in what modern colleges have become, from a problem that starts at public schools that graduate students who don't read. If I was teaching at a university I'd get sick of students in my classes who shouldn't have passed 8th grade. But to students who have the educational and intellectual background these widely held attitudes(of common profs) are a joke. I was lucky in college in that I could take some "honors" courses. They were great, teachers treated freshmen almost as equals, gave us plenty of slack, and I learned so much more in those classes. I also managed to ace those difficult honors classes with very large courseloads, yet had to retake calc 2 several times because the teachers were completely impotent at their craft.(didn't someone else mention that they did the same thing?)
I assume Mill is a student similar to me, and can completely understand where he's coming from, even through the hostile tone.
I'd guess many/most people on these boards that went through college experienced something similar, maybe not. Good students should not be punished by profs who don't want to teach, it's that simple. Most colleges today don't recognize that fact. One can argue all day about the "way it is" but that isn't the question, which is the "way it should be". Pop quizes and the like for attendence show a deformed relationship between the teachers and the students.What's the leadership and direction of the administration at your school Mill? If they're truely dedicated to the process of advancing the knowledge of good students a fight may pay off. It's better than sitting there feeling helpless. If they're not, you're screwed, welcome to the club the meetings are at 7:00 PM every Thursday. If you find yourself in many similar situations and do have the education, consider a transfer. There are still a few sane colleges out there.
Anyhow, this thread is bringing up memories for me of walking out of lecture halls because the speaker was completely insane and under qualified for the position and power. That's just how I see it, could be wrong if Mill is a neo-facist PETA fanatic that wears dresses to class. If so, please send pictures.
btw, I agree with sysadmin, the rant/poll options were pretty good.
EDIT: forgot to /rant
Originally posted by: JonathanYoung
I just want to increase my post count so I can be a Lifer like you and Mill.
Got a snickers handy? because it is going to take a while
SYsadmin
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