ITT: We propose our own Socket AM1 SKUs

[cbn]

2C are not worth it, neither the 2650 nor the J1800, on the Quad core offering the entry level is the 5150, anything slower or with less cores is not a good buy on the mid term , let alone on a 5 years usage perspective, 4C at correct frequency are the only way to have decent use of the GPU, at least on the AMD part, on the Intel side a faster CPU is about of no help to even play basic games, in that respect using a 2650, 3850 or whatever BT is just wasting money, i could understand for some restricted usages, particularly using Linux, but overall i wouldnt advise lower than a 5350

Well see that is a problem as Athlon 5150 and Athlon 5350 are quite expensive.

MSI's AM1 mini-ITX board (listed earlier in the thread) was $33.99 free shipping. Add in an Athlon 5350 at $59.99 free shipping and the the total is now $93.98 free shipping.

That is only $14 less than the combined cost of a $42.99 free shipping Celeron G1820 --> http://www.amazon.com/dp/B00HCM8QQE/...xtension-kb-20 and $64.99 free shipping MSI H81 Mini-ITX board ---> http://www.amazon.com/dp/B00F4J5D9K/?tag=extension-kb-20 which comes out to be $107.98 free shipping

So based on that I think AMD needs to offer better value at the lower end, by increasing performance

And the web browsing of the Semprons is important as not much iGPU is needed for that purpose.

A good example I could give you of CPU and GPU for web browsing is my Intel E2180 combined with my VisionTek HD4350 (40 VLIW5 stream processors) --> http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16814129149. This compared to my ECS KBN-I/2100 (Two Jaguar cores at 1GHz with 128 GCN stream processors @ 300 MHz)

Even though the Intel E2180 (Core 2 duo) has a much smaller GPU (40 stream processor VisionTek HD4350), web browsing is like night and day better compared to the 1 Ghz dual core Kabini and its stronger 300 Mhz 128 GCN stream processor iGPU.

So based on my personal experience I'd say Sempron 2650 and Sempron 3850 have overkill GPUs for web browsing, but lack CPU.

Ideally, AMD would be able to match Intel for web browsing at X price point but add in extra GPU for gaming (at the cost of a fan on the heatsink).

 

[Abwx]

A good example I could give you of CPU and GPU for web browsing is my Intel E2180 combined with my VisionTek HD4350 (40 VLIW5 stream processors) --> http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16814129149. This compared to my ECS KBN-I/2100 (Two Jaguar cores at 1GHz with 128 GCN stream processors @ 300 MHz)

Even though the Intel E2180 (Core 2 duo) has a much smaller GPU (40 stream processor VisionTek HD4350), web browsing is like night and day better compared to the 1 Ghz dual core Kabini and its stronger 300 Mhz 128 GCN stream processor iGPU.

So based on my personal experience I'd say Sempron 2650 and Sempron 3850 have overkill GPUs for web browsing, but lack CPU.

Your starting point, comparing a Kabini 2C 1GHz with a 2GHz core 2 is not relevant at all, do you have to use such extreme exemples to make a point.?.

I dont think that it s a good exemple at all.

A simple 2650 is 45% faster than your 2C Kabini and can be clocked to 1.5 just with the multiplier, that is 50%, do you think that it would be exactly the same as at 1GHz.??.

The 5150 has 60% better ST perfs and 3.2x the computing capability, a 5350 has 100% better ST perf and 4x the computing capability, it s just quite differents products than the 2650 and 3850 despite being all AM1.

I guess that you didnt notice that AMD priced thoses APU in linear relation with performance, the US retailers did notice the thing and they know that generaly the price is scaling as a power that is higher than 1, they just adjusted their prices to cash on AMD s willingness to offer more perfs at the just prices, in short they are thwarting AMD s competitive pricings.

 

[cbn]

A good example I could give you of CPU and GPU for web browsing is my Intel E2180 combined with my VisionTek HD4350 (40 VLIW5 stream processors) --> http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16814129149. This compared to my ECS KBN-I/2100 (Two Jaguar cores at 1GHz with 128 GCN stream processors @ 300 MHz)

Even though the Intel E2180 (Core 2 duo) has a much smaller GPU (40 stream processor VisionTek HD4350), web browsing is like night and day better compared to the 1 Ghz dual core Kabini and its stronger 300 Mhz 128 GCN stream processor iGPU.

So based on my personal experience I'd say Sempron 2650 and Sempron 3850 have overkill GPUs for web browsing, but lack CPU.

Your starting point, comparing a Kabini 2C 1GHz with a 2GHz core 2 is not relevant at all, do you have to use such extreme exemples to make a point.?.

I dont think that it s a good exemple at all.

The point of that comparison is that AMD is specing more GPU on their Sempron AM1s than is needed for web browsing, but is not specing enough CPU to be competitive with J1800/J1900. That is all I am trying to illustrate by comparing E2180/40 stream HD4350 to E1-2100 (1GHz dual core Kabini with 300 Mhz 128 GCN stream processor iGPU), nothing more than that.

Do you see my point now on how a 40 stream processor iGPU was not holding back web browsing, but a 1GHz dual core Kabini was holding web browsing back despite having an iGPU at least twice as powerful as the 40 stream HD4350?

A simple 2650 is 45% faster than your 2C Kabini and can be clocked to 1.5 just with the multiplier, that is 50%, do you think that it would be exactly the same as at 1GHz.??..

Yes, I realize Sempron 2650 is faster than the 1GHz dual core Kabini.

The point is that processors like Sempron 2650/3850 are unbalanced compared to the Celeron J1800 and J1900. (This not even considering 1037U which I think is a more fair comparison to AM1 Semprons because it is also low cost and has a fan on the heatsink.)

I guess that you didnt notice that AMD priced thoses APU in linear relation with performance, the US retailers did notice the thing and they know that generaly the price is scaling as a power that is higher than 1, they just adjusted their prices to cash on AMD s willingness to offer more perfs at the just prices, in short they are thwarting AMD s competitive pricings.

Maybe AMD has priced their AM1 Sempron processors in a linear relation with performance to the AM1 Athlon 5150 and AM1 Athlon 5350, but they do not line-up with Intel's Bay Trail-D J1800 or J1900 at all.

Overall, comparing AM1 Sempron 2650 and 3850 to Intel Celeron J1800/J1900:

1. Intel Bay Trail-D Celerons have a stronger cpu for web-browsing by at least 30% depending on the benchmark
2. Intel Bay Trail-D Celerons should have a sufficient iGPU for web-browsing, but not gaming (to any large degree)
3. Intel Celerons are fanless, but AM1 Semprons need a fan.
4. AM1 Semprons have better iGPUs than Intel Bay Trail-D Celerons, but very likely (in many cases) lack the CPU to make good use of that extra GPU in 3D games.

P.S. Like I mentioned earlier, this is not even comparing AM1 Sempron to 1037U (which I believe is an even more fair comparison to make.)

 

[Shivansps]

1037U results running on ST DDR3-1600 http://www.3dmark.com/3dm/4156394

i did not save the DDR3-1333 DC results but it was considerably higher firemark score was about 266 and firemark graphic score was 300, ice storm graphic about 32000.

What im not sure is why the physics score are so low now, its probably because skype was running on the background, i forgot to close it.

 

[cbn]

Some Intel Celeron J1900 prices to add to the J1800, Semprons and 1037U below from post #35:

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...41&ignorebbr=1 ($69.99, free shipping)

http://www.amazon.com/dp/B00J2CCCJE/...xtension-kb-20 ($72.73, free shipping)

Here are the lowest US prices I can find at the moment (with Mini-ITX as the form factor):

Socket AM1 Mini -ITX motherboard: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16813130759 ($33.99, free shipping)

Sempron 2650: http://www.amazon.com/gp/offer-listi...&condition=new ($31.00, with free shipping for orders $35.00 and over)
Sempron 3850: http://www.amazon.com/dp/B00IOMFFUG/...xtension-kb-20 ($36.00, free shipping)

Socket AM1 (Mini-ITX) total with Sempron 2650: $64.99 with free shipping
Socket AM1 (Mini-ITX) total with Sempron 3850: $69.99 with free shipping


J1800:

http://www.amazon.com/dp/B00KXP548U/...xtension-kb-20 ($54.99 after $10 rebate, free shipping)

http://www.amazon.com/dp/B00K8QFR4U/...xtension-kb-20 ($59.99, free shipping)

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...14&ignorebbr=1 ($59.99 plus $2.99 shipping) (My mistake, this is micro ATX form factor, not Mini-ITX)

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...98&ignorebbr=1 ($59.99 plus $2.99 shipping)

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...11&ignorebbr=1 ($61.99 free shipping)

1037U:

http://www.amazon.com/dp/B00G237CMI/...xtension-kb-20 ($62.99, free shipping)

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...50&ignorebbr=1 ($69.99 plus $3.99 shipping)

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...36&ignorebbr=1 ($71.99 free shipping)

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...93&ignorebbr=1 ($74.99, free shipping)

Overall, I would have to say Sempron 2650 lines up better with J1800 and Sempron 3850 lines up better with Intel 1037U (a 17 watt BGA dual core processor).

But even then, a person could make an argument for the single channel 1037U board (@ $62.99) to compete with Sempron 2650 (@ 64.99 combo price) as well. (Both processor platforms are Mini-ITX, roughly the same price and both have fans).

P.S. Regarding the above prices, Sempron 2650 was $28 Free shipping on Amazon last week (a rarity, I am disappointed the price increased back to $31). ECS also has a J1800 Mini-ITX that is out of stock at Newegg that goes for $51.99.

 

[Airegin]

I'm getting an AM1 set-up soon and I feel like going really low-end with the 3850 just to see what it can do. Is it decent enough for simple browsing and music (VLC/Spotify) in Windows 8?

I do want to upgrade to Beema eventually though. Any chance that will ever happen?

 

[Abwx]

There s a chance that Beema will be available, or rather higher frequency variants since there s about no difference bewteen Beema and the AM1 APUs other than the turbo and the security processor, all the rest is the same, including the 15W power comsumption, so it s better to pick an Athlon 5350 if you have the means.

 

[Airegin]

There s a chance that Beema will be available, or rather higher frequency variants since there s about no difference bewteen Beema and the AM1 APUs other than the turbo and the security processor, all the rest is the same, including the 15W power comsumption, so it s better to pick an Athlon 5350 if you have the means.

Well the Beema chip offers better performance at lower power consumption. The current AM1 chips are 25W, Beema is 15W.

I'm just curious how Windows 8 runs on a 3850 for just browsing and music. Also, what's the advantage of having 4 cores at such a low clockspeed?

 

[Abwx]

Well the Beema chip offers better performance at lower power consumption. The current AM1 chips are 25W, Beema is 15W.

They are officialy 25W, yet you wont find about a single review where the TDP go over 15W, these are manufactured by Global Foundries and it s unlikely that AMD use two differents masks for AM1 APUs and Beema/Mullins.

I'm just curious how Windows 8 runs on a 3850 for just browsing and music. Also, what's the advantage of having 4 cores at such a low clockspeed?

Really dont know, i mounted an AM1 with an Athlon 5350 and a SSD, it work very well but it has 57% higher theorical perf than the 3850, that s quite a lot, i made extensive power comsumption tests using power hungry softs and the 2.05Ghz sibling is within the 15W TDP rating even with Prime 95, Linpack or Luxmark CPU + GPU, so ther s really not much point to wait for an APU that will be about the same set apart more frequency, although 200-400MHz wont make a big upgrade compared to 2.05, if you go 3850 it should be good for your usage but i can only insist to get the 5350, or at least the 5150, instead.

 

[Airegin]

Really dont know, i mounted an AM1 with an Athlon 5350 and a SSD, it work very well but it has 57% higher theorical perf than the 3850, that s quite a lot, i made extensive power comsumption tests using power hungry softs and the 2.05Ghz sibling is within the 15W TDP rating even with Prime 95, Linpack or Luxmark CPU + GPU, so ther s really not much point to wait for an APU that will be about the same set apart more frequency, although 200-400MHz wont make a big upgrade compared to 2.05, if you go 3850 it should be good for your usage but i can only insist to get the 5350, or at least the 5150, instead.

Ubuntu should run very smooth on the 3850, right? I'm not sure what I'm going to do yet, I do have the budget but I enjoy to see how low-end I can go. Basically I could have an entire set-up that runs smooth with Ubuntu for €160, that kind of blows my mind.

 

[cbn]

I'm getting an AM1 set-up soon and I feel like going really low-end with the 3850 just to see what it can do. Is it decent enough for simple browsing and music (VLC/Spotify) in Windows 8?

Ubuntu should run very smooth on the 3850, right? I'm not sure what I'm going to do yet, I do have the budget but I enjoy to see how low-end I can go. Basically I could have an entire set-up that runs smooth with Ubuntu for €160, that kind of blows my mind.

I have a Athlon 5350 and MSI AM1l ordered (should arrive sometime next week).

I will do some subjective browser testing with Firefox and Chrome (under Windows 8.1) and Firefox and Chromium under Mint 17 or Ubuntu in the stock configuration as well as the following altered configurations (assuming BIOS allows it):

1. "Athlon 5150": Created by lowering the Athlon 5350's multiplier to 16.

2. "Sempron 3850": Created by lowering the Athlon 5350 multiplier to 13 and lowering iGPU clocks from 600 MHz to 450 MHz.

3. "Sempron 2650": Created by disabling two cores on the Athlon 5350, lowering multiplier to 14.5, lowering iGPU clocks from 600 MHz to 400 MHz, downclocking memory from 1600 to 1333.

 

[Airegin]

I have a Athlon 5350 and MSI AM1l ordered (should arrive sometime next week).

I will do some subjective browser testing with Firefox and Chrome (under Windows 8.1) and Firefox and Chromium under Mint 17 or Ubuntu in the stock configuration as well as the following altered configurations (assuming BIOS allows it):

1. "Athlon 5150": Created by lowering the Athlon 5350's multiplier to 16.

2. "Sempron 3850": Created by lowering the Athlon 5350 multiplier to 13 and lowering iGPU clocks from 600 MHz to 450 MHz.

3. "Sempron 2650": Created by disabling two cores on the Athlon 5350, lowering multiplier to 14.5, lowering iGPU clocks from 600 MHz to 400 MHz, downclocking memory from 1600 to 1333.

Nice, this should be really interesting! Could you do some multitasking as well? e.g. open Spotify/VLC and browse with 5 tabs open at the same time.

 

[cbn]

Nice, this should be really interesting! Could you do some multitasking as well? e.g. open Spotify/VLC and browse with 5 tabs open at the same time.

Yes, I can do that with VLC playing a DVD off the optical drive.

This, in addition, to my plan of judging scrolling smoothness with a single tab open.

 

[Abwx]

Ubuntu should run very smooth on the 3850, right? I'm not sure what I'm going to do yet, I do have the budget but I enjoy to see how low-end I can go. Basically I could have an entire set-up that runs smooth with Ubuntu for €160, that kind of blows my mind.

I use only Windows, all i know about Ubuntu is hearsay and what i did read in other forums, some people told me that it works well in W8.1 and even better with Linux, best is to wait for CBN s tests that will give first hand clues, i predict that he will be surprised by the 2.05 variant, that 1.6 will still be enough and 1.3 will also be good thanks to the four cores but the big frequency gap will be noticeable, as for the 2C 1.45, well, i m all ears...

On the pricing i just checked and here in France the price delta between the 3850/5150/5350 is linearly scaled with frequency accurately, this should be the same everywhere else, that s why i think that there s no big advantage to get the lower grades.

 

[cbn]

I received my Athlon 5350 and MSI AM1l yesterday.

I have yet to find a way to disable two cores or lower GPU clocks in the BIOS. (MSI Afterburner does not allow me to lower iGPU clocks either).

I can however, change the cpu multiplier to 16 which would replicate the performance of an Athlon 5150.

 

[Airegin]

I received my Athlon 5350 and MSI AM1l yesterday.

I have yet to find a way to disable two cores or lower GPU clocks in the BIOS. (MSI Afterburner does not allow me to lower iGPU clocks either).

I can however, change the cpu multiplier to 16 which would replicate the performance of an Athlon 5150.

I'm more interested to see how Ubuntu would run on the Sempron 3850 quadcore. Could you underclock the CPU to 1.3Ghz and see how Ubuntu handles multitasking?

 

[MiddleOfTheRoad]

Well see that is a problem as Athlon 5150 and Athlon 5350 are quite expensive.

And the web browsing of the Semprons is important as not much iGPU is needed for that purpose.

A good example I could give you of CPU and GPU for web browsing is my Intel E2180 combined with my VisionTek HD4350 (40 VLIW5 stream processors) --> http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16814129149. This compared to my ECS KBN-I/2100 (Two Jaguar cores at 1GHz with 128 GCN stream processors @ 300 MHz)

Even though the Intel E2180 (Core 2 duo) has a much smaller GPU (40 stream processor VisionTek HD4350), web browsing is like night and day better compared to the 1 Ghz dual core Kabini and its stronger 300 Mhz 128 GCN stream processor iGPU.

So based on my personal experience I'd say Sempron 2650 and Sempron 3850 have overkill GPUs for web browsing, but lack CPU.

Well, first -- I've never heard anyone calling a $50 and $60 chip "quite expensive." They are reasonably priced considering the performance they can provide for people who desire low power consumption.

Second -- I think your mindset is wrong when looking at AM1. The AM1 platform really was about pushing HSA down to the entry.... And saying the Sempron has too strong GPU and not enough CPU really missing the point of its design.

The GPU and CPU were always intended to work in tandem for OpenCL applications. I personally own a Sempron 3850 (mostly for use as a NAS) -- and it is remarkably fast on apps that have OpenCL acceleration. A The Sempron is perfectly fine for a web browsing machine and even some light gaming.

 

[VirtualLarry]

Second -- I think your mindset is wrong when looking at AM1. The AM1 platform really was about pushing HSA down to the entry

AM1... HSA? Where? I thought Kaveri was the only remotely HSA-compatible APU on the market right now.

 

[cbn]

I personally own a Sempron 3850 (mostly for use as a NAS) -- and it is remarkably fast on apps that have OpenCL acceleration. A The Sempron is perfectly fine for a web browsing machine and even some light gaming.

Right now I have my Athlon 5350's multiplier set at 13 (So that basically makes my chip a Sempron 3850 with a faster than stock iGPU).

Under Firefox (with Windows 8.1 Pro as the OS) using the Verge homepage as an example, I can definitely report the scrolling less than smooth on a 1080p monitor. It actually hangs quite a bit with rapid scrolling, and this is with only one tab open.

Now granted the Verge homepage is more challenging than other pages (including the Anandtech homepage), but it is not the most challenging web page I have visited.

So I have to seriously question if the Sempron 3850 is adequate for web browsing (in general) with Firefox as the browser.

.

 

[cbn]

Well, first -- I've never heard anyone calling a $50 and $60 chip "quite expensive." They are reasonably priced considering the performance they can provide for people who desire low power consumption.

The Athlons are definitely expensive compared to something like a Celeron G1820 whose multi-threaded performance is greater than an Athlon 5350 according to Passmark.

Celeron G8120: 2792 cpu marks http://www.cpubenchmark.net/cpu.php?cpu=Intel+Celeron+G1820+@+2.70GHz

Athlon 5350: 2614 cpu marks http://www.cpubenchmark.net/cpu.php?cpu=AMD+Athlon+5350+APU+with+Radeon+R3

 

[Airegin]

Right now I have my Athlon 5350's multiplier set at 13 (So that basically makes my chip a Sempron 3850 with a faster than stock iGPU).

Under Firefox (with Windows 8.1 Pro as the OS) using the Verge homepage as an example, I can definitely report the scrolling less than smooth on a 1080p monitor. It actually hangs quite a bit with rapid scrolling, and this is with only one tab open.

Now granted the Verge homepage is more challenging than other pages (including the Anandtech homepage), but it is not the most challenging web page I have visited.

So I have to seriously question if the Sempron 3850 is adequate for web browsing (in general) with Firefox as the browser.

.

Doesn't Firefox still use only 1 core? Chrome might be smoother on a multicore CPU at such a low clockspeed.

 

[cbn]

Doesn't Firefox still use only 1 core? Chrome might be smoother on a multicore CPU at such a low clockspeed.

Chrome is also rough at scrolling the Verge Homepage @1080p with only one tab open.

So I went to chrome://gpu and here is the info that was displayed:

Graphics Feature Status

Canvas: Hardware accelerated
Flash: Hardware accelerated
Flash Stage3D : Hardware accelerated
Flash Stage3D Baseline profile: Hardware accelerated
Compositing: Hardware accelerated and threaded
Rasterization: Software only, hardware acceleration unavailable
Threaded Rasterization: Disabled
Video Decode: Hardware accelerated
Video Encode: Hardware accelerated
WebGL: Hardware accelerated

P.S. Internet Explorer was actually the smoothest at scrolling the Verge homepage with a single tab open.

 

[Abwx]

The Athlons are definitely expensive compared to something like a Celeron G1820 whose multi-threaded performance is greater than an Athlon 5350 according to Passmark.

Celeron G8120: 2792 cpu marks http://www.cpubenchmark.net/cpu.php?cpu=Intel+Celeron+G1820+%40+2.70GHz

Athlon 5350: 2614 cpu marks http://www.cpubenchmark.net/cpu.php?cpu=AMD+Athlon+5350+APU+with+Radeon+R3

With twice the power budget i dont think that doing a few % better in this test is something to be regarded as a big achievement.

Right now I have my Athlon 5350's multiplier set at 13 (So that basically makes my chip a Sempron 3850 with a faster than stock iGPU).

Under Firefox (with Windows 8.1 Pro as the OS) using the Verge homepage as an example, I can definitely report the scrolling less than smooth on a 1080p monitor. It actually hangs quite a bit with rapid scrolling, and this is with only one tab open.

Now granted the Verge homepage is more challenging than other pages (including the Anandtech homepage), but it is not the most challenging web page I have visited.

So I have to seriously question if the Sempron 3850 is adequate for web browsing (in general) with Firefox as the browser.

.

I just opened the page you re quoting with Firefox and a 2C, it s Mthreaded apparently, even when scrolling and even with WXP, i used as main browser Firefox on the AM1 build btw.

Also, what is you RAM.?.

 

[cbn]

With twice the power budget i dont think that doing a few % better in this test is something to be regarded as a big achievement.

No doubt the G1820 has a higher power consumption, but I am not sure how much practical difference it will make with anyone's SFF desktop build plans.

With that mentioned, fan noise is something to consider but I am not sure how much difference there would be between a 5350 and G1820 (re: AM1 has a smaller size heatsink and smaller fan)

Also, what is you RAM.?.

4GB (2 x 2 GB) DDR3 1600.

 

[Engineer]

5350 @ Newegg for $54.99 shipped today with code EMCWPPF29.
The MSI AM1 Mini ITX board is $24.99 with free shipping @ Frys after $10 rebate

Rebate information:
Please go to
http://msi.4myrebate.com/?oc=MSI-14721 to claim
your rebate. Offer code : MSI-14721

Tempted to buy these to build a PFsense router (or Smoothwall) just for poops and giggles although I would probably need to get a quiet heatsink/fan, case, power supply (PICO). Might be more money than I want to spend, lol!