ITT: We discuss future pricing and availability for AM3+ processors and mobos

[ShintaiDK]

Fact is a value priced hexcore (in a typical OEM desktop) is going to be way better for almost any enthusiast level task a quad core APU user would do.

And even if they added a video card it would still probably be cheaper and faster than the Desktop A10 APU.

And to say "None of them need 6 cores" is a bit of a stretch. I bet a lot of people would probably say the same for quad core too. Both are probably overkill for everyday tasks.

What task exactly? And show me your price compare.

If a quad is overkill, then why do you say they need a hex?

 

[frozentundra123456]

I fail to see how a lower performing apu in mobile is a huge improvement over a desktop apu. It may be less bandwidth limited, but that doesn't mean you are getting better performance. It just means you are being limited by a different component at an even lower level, and even desktop apus are already quite limited for demanding games.

It is a somewhat more attractive compromise in mobile because you cannot add a discrete card, but the sad truth is that you still need a discrete card on the order of a gtx 860m to have a mobile gaming experience capable of playing all games, and even then you will be limited to fairly modest settings in some.

 

[cbn]

They are still too slow. Its not designed to reach those speeds.

The dual core FM2s were not that fast.

Even a Athlon 5350 beats them all in Passmark.

 

[ShintaiDK]

The dual core FM2s were not that fast.

Even a Athlon 5350 beats them all in Passmark.

Passmark isnt an indication of useful speed.

The dualcore FM chips are almost twice as fast in 1-2 threads than the 5350.

Remember your 45$ 4Ghz A4 7300? The 5350 is 65$.

 

[Magic Carpet]

Do you know how old they are and how they perform? We talk anno 2010 Intel IGP speeds. Hell, my i5 661 in my HTPC is faster.

Plus those chipsets are like 25W TDP for the northbridge alone.

As a proud owner of 785G, I can honestly tell you guys. It's dog slow. Period.

But of course, when I bought it in late 2009 it was quite adequate. I even played some games on it. In my opinion, AMD should have continued with this and evolve it some, so we are not given this topic to discuss in late 2014. Kind of ridiculous, really. Intel, on the other hand, has been methodically improving it and that's actually a good thing that every mainstream processor has some kind of back-up graphics, just in case. Graphics which is regularly updated. Little by little, I like that approach.

 

[cbn]

If a quad is overkill, then why do you say they need a hex?

For everyday tasks.....

But if someone is going to buy enthusiast level hardware (like a quad core) they might as well get the hexcore provided the pricing is right. (Even in stuff like games FX-6300 is beating even the best Kaveri quad core most of the time)

 

[ShintaiDK]

For everyday tasks.....

But if someone is going to buy enthusiast level hardware (like a quad core) they might as well get the hexcore provided the pricing is right. (Even in stuff like games FX-6300 is beating even the best Kaveri quad core most of the time)

What everyday task?

Now you talk "enthusiast". That crowd is a 1% crowd at best. And why on earth would that crowd want an FX?

 

[ShintaiDK]

As a proud of 785G owner, I can honestly tell you guys. It's dog slow. Period.

But of course, when I bought it in late 2009 it was quite adequate. I even played some games on it. In my opinion, AMD should have continued with this and evolve it some, so we are not given this topic to discuss in late 2014. Kind of ridiculous, really. Intel, on the other hand, has been methodically improving it and that's actually a good thing that every mainstream processor has some kind of back-up graphics, just in case. Graphics which is regularly updated. Little by little, I like that approach.

AMD is doing the same really. Its just APUs and not the dead FX series.

 

[cbn]

Now you talk "enthusiast". That crowd is a 1% crowd at best. And why on earth would that crowd want an FX?

Why would they want an expensive A10 desktop?

Remember the FX-6300 is replacing the A10 desktop.

 

[ShintaiDK]

Why would they want an expensive A10 desktop?

Remember the FX-6300 is replacing the A10 desktop.

At what cost? You need a discrete card on top and you get twice the power consumption or so. Plus the A8 7600 is the best chip of the Kaveri series.

 

[cbn]

At what cost? You need a discrete card on top and you get twice the power consumption or so.

It doesn't need a discrete card for everyday use.

And yes, the maximum power consumption is higher but it also has two more cores.

 

[Magic Carpet]

AMD is doing the same really. Its just APUs and not the dead FX series.

Naw, they changed focus/market/whatever. They used to offer graphics with performance CPU, so people can choose, how they want to use their PCs. You don't need powerful graphics if you spend all day coding, etc. But you do require a fast CPU. Want to game? Just plug in, any video card you want. Easy peasy.

Today, it's the opposite, you just have no bloody choice anymore! If you need a performance CPU with backup/entry graphics, there is really no other way but to get it from Intel. Of course, you can still get an 880G mobo with AM3+ socket, but who wants to buy old stuff today and skip all the generational improvements the world has seen in recent years. Certainly, not a computer enthusiast.

Of course, there is FM1/FM2 but last I saw, the raw CPU performance was not there. Maybe I should look into it again when I get bored. But otherwise, AM3+ is still somewhat viable in my book. But yeah, the extra d-card that is needed for 9xx boards, makes it less attractive if you don't need that extra GPU horsepower (in which case, any Intel combo is better, imo). These days you would only power 9xx with powerful cards, so you can use them !

 

[ShintaiDK]

It doesn't need a discrete card for everyday use.

And yes, the maximum power consumption is higher but it also has two more cores.

Yet it does need a hexcore over an improvement of the 2008 IGP and platform?

Really?

 

[Abwx]

Plus those chipsets are like 18-25W TDP for the northbridge alone.

TDP figures are right but this is when fully loaded, wich is a rare occurence, the number is 13.6-23.6W for all chipsets.

The SB doesnt consume a lot and i noticed that the 880G chipset wich has a HD4250 was 18W, that s with the GPU and all others circuitries fully loaded, that s not that much and at normal usage TDP will be substancialy lower, the 990FX is the chipset with the higher TDP at 23.6W, lower cost iterations like said 880G are quite good from a power comsumption perspective given the integrated GPU.

 

[cbn]

Yet it does need a hexcore over an improvement of the 2008 IGP and platform?

Really?

Hexcore vs. 512 GCN Stream processors?

What is a better value for a low end desktop?

I would take that hexcore any day of the week because I just can't believe the AM3+ iGPU is going to be a problem. (I've used a 40 stream processor Visiontek HD4350 for many years off and on and never had issues.)

And if a person does want to add a video card the option is always there.

 

[cbn]

Plus the A8 7600 is the best chip of the Kaveri series.

Maybe that one could be replaced with a 35 watt mobile SKU:

 

[cbn]

Passmark isnt an indication of useful speed.

The dualcore FM chips are almost twice as fast in 1-2 threads than the 5350.

If AMD can raise the TDP on Jaguar/Puma specifically for low end desktop chips, I think the cpu clockspeeds will be fine.

And yes, the single thread will be lower than FM2 but overall they should still be workable enough.

 

[Abwx]

Maybe that one could be replaced with a 35 watt mobile SKU:

One could make a 35W TDP Kaveri out of a 7850K or a 7700K, all you have to do is to set the correct multiplicators, and eventualy voltages, to match the mobile variant values, the 7600 and 7800 could also be used since the coefficent can be reduced on any APU.

If AMD can raise the TDP on Jaguar/Puma specifically for low end desktop chips, I think the cpu clockspeeds will be fine.

And yes, the single thread will be lower than FM2 but overall they should still be workable enough.

They dont need to raise the TDP of the AM1 APUs since they have quite a big margin left with the current production, a 5350 is about 15W, same as a Beema.

 

[cbn]

One could make a 35W TDP Kaveri out of a 7850K or a 7700K, all you have to do is to set the correct multiplicators, and eventualy voltages, to match the mobile variant values, the 7600 and 7800 could also be used since the coefficent can be reduced on any APU.

I brought that up because right now I see the high end FM2+ (A10) getting replaced with the lower end of AM3+ with integrated graphics chipset.

Mid range FM2+ (ie, A8-7600) gets replaced by 35 watt Mobile Kaveri.

Low end FM2 gets replaced by higher TDP variants of Jaguar/Puma (2.4 Ghz quad core should work nicely).

Then FM2/FM2+ no longer needs to exist.

 

[Abwx]

I brought that up because right now I see the high end FM2+ (A10) getting replaced with the lower end of AM3+ with integrated graphics chipset.

Mid range FM2+ (ie, A8-7600) gets replaced by 35 watt Mobile Kaveri.

Low end FM2 gets replaced by higher TDP variants of Jaguar/Puma (2.4 Ghz quad core should work nicely).

Then FM2/FM2+ no longer needs to exist.

AM1 is up to 25W, FM2+ is up to 95W and perhaps will be reduced to 65W only in the future, while AM3+ is for up to 125W and eventualy 150-220W for selected MBs, obviously the segmentation require three main TDP rating to cover all possible needs at minimal respective costs.

 

[cbn]

AM1 is up to 25W, FM2+ is up to 95W and perhaps will be reduced to 65W only in the future, while AM3+ is for up to 125W and eventualy 150-220W for selected MBs, obviously the segmentation require three main TDP rating to cover all possible needs at minimal respective costs.

I noticed AMD has a bunch of lower TDP Piledriver based Opterons listed.

Maybe they could also do low power binning for AM3+ in the future as well?

 

[Abwx]

I noticed AMD has a bunch of lower TDP Piledriver based Opterons listed.

Maybe they could also do low power binning for AM3+ in the future as well?

TDP being configurable is a feature of the FX line as you have access to the multiplicators.
You can use an E chips to be sure of a favourable binning, the 8370E does use 65W when fully loaded at stock settings, the lowly priced 8320E should be as good.

 

[cbn]

Another option for 65 watts (without needing FM2/FM2+) would be to take a 35 watt Kaveri mobile SKU and have AMD include some form of cTDPup for it.

 

[cbn]

At what cost? You need a discrete card on top and you get twice the power consumption or so. Plus the A8 7600 is the best chip of the Kaveri series.

One thing we also have to remember when comparing specs of APUs to CPU + dGPUs is that cpu throttling occurs on the kaveri APUs cpu during iGPU load.

Example: When furmark was used in this review, the cpu cores on A8-7600 dropped down to 2.4 Ghz during Prime 95. So Kaveri APUs aren't quite an efficient for their given TDP as they look on paper.

 

[frozentundra123456]

The problem with AMD is you cannot get the best cpu performance with an igpu. To get the best cpu performance, you have to either live with ancient motherboard graphics or add a discrete gpu. To get an igpu, you have to sacrifice cpu performance. With Intel, you can pretty much choose what level of cpu performance you need, and you will get a usable igpu with it.