It's time for you libs to apologize for calling Pres Bush a liar

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conjur

No Lifer
Jun 7, 2001
58,686
3
0
So, Bush had carte blanche to do whatever he wanted? How convenient.


Did you not read Powell's testimony before the Senate? Do you not have any comments on that?

Powell's full testimony before the Senate Foreign Relations Committee on 9/26/2002:
http://www.iraqwatch.org/government/US/HearingsPreparedstatements/sfrc-afternoon-092602.htm
SEC. POWELL: The principal concern that we have are weapons of mass destruction, and the principal focus of the U.N. resolutions are weapons of mass destructions (sic), and that's what the inspection regime was trying to uncover and destroy.
SEC. POWELL: I think the operating clause in that that is of the greatest concern is the one having to do with weapons of mass destruction. It is unlikely that any of the others individually would lead to that kind of consequence.
SEC. POWELL: The principal reason for the authority is for the president to do what he needs to do to focus on the principal offense that he has been presenting to the nation, and that is weapons of mass destruction.
SEC. POWELL: The president hasn't asked for any authority -- the president has not linked authority to go to war to any of the elements.
 

Ozoned

Diamond Member
Mar 22, 2004
5,578
0
0
Originally posted by: Ozoned
Originally posted by: conjur


Also, and this is the key aspect that most Bush fans blatantly ignore, the vote to authorize the President to use force was only to use force as a last resort: after diplomacy, sanctions, and inspections failed.

Did the President exhause diplomatic means? No.

Did the President seek to alter economic sanctions as recommended by Colin Powell? No.

Did the President allow inspectors to properly do their job? No.




http://www.whitehouse.gov/news/releases/2002/10/20021002-2.html




SEC. 3. AUTHORIZATION FOR USE OF UNITED STATES ARMED FORCES.

(a) AUTHORIZATION. The President is authorized to use the Armed Forces of the United States as he determines to be necessary and appropriate in order to


(1) defend the national security of the United States against the continuing threat posed by Iraq; and
(2) enforce all relevant United Nations Security Council Resolutions regarding Iraq.



I guess the Authors and co-Authors of the resolution forgot to put the exact language you wanted in there, conjur. :) Maybe there is a Lawer ;) or two on this forum that could comment on this language. It almost looks like a "Blank check" authorization. ;).


BTW who did Author and co-Author the resolution? :confused:


Originally posted by: conjur

Did you not read Powell's testimony before the Senate? Do you not have any comments on that?


Nope, I just wanted to point out the BS in your post. :p
 

Sketcher

Platinum Member
Aug 15, 2001
2,237
0
0
Stone Tablets from on-High could be presented to the United Nations by God Himself; presenting the evidence of which Bush has become labeled the liar's liar for championing, and it wouldn't be enough. The criers would then whine that the news wasn't timely enough, wasn't sensational enough, didn't liberate enough and that the late showing of evidence and righting of the wrong were the makings of a conspiracy for the sole purpose of boosting an election. The seal of God Himself providing the tablets would be inconsequential because the frenzied masses would already have insisted that "God" not be brought into the discussion and that even if God were relevant she certainly wouldn't care about an election.
 

sandorski

No Lifer
Oct 10, 1999
70,806
6,362
126
Originally posted by: Sketcher
Stone Tablets from on-High could be presented to the United Nations by God Himself; presenting the evidence of which Bush has become labeled the liar's liar for championing, and it wouldn't be enough. The criers would then whine that the news wasn't timely enough, wasn't sensational enough, didn't liberate enough and that the late showing of evidence and righting of the wrong were the makings of a conspiracy for the sole purpose of boosting an election. The seal of God Himself providing the tablets would be inconsequential because the frenzied masses would already have insisted that "God" not be brought into the discussion and that even if God were relevant she certainly wouldn't care about an election.

You could be right, but the question is: Would God present Stone Tablets of something that was not True?

Bush was wrong, I presume that God wouldn't support Bush if He knew Bush was wrong. Your post is the worst kind of Strawman, using peoples disbelief of a Perfect Being and ignoring the clear facts at the sametime to somehow justify someones Error, Exagerations, Half-Truths, and known Deceptions.
 

Sketcher

Platinum Member
Aug 15, 2001
2,237
0
0
Originally posted by: sandorski
Originally posted by: Sketcher
Stone Tablets from on-High could be presented to the United Nations by God Himself; presenting the evidence of which Bush has become labeled the liar's liar for championing, and it wouldn't be enough. The criers would then whine that the news wasn't timely enough, wasn't sensational enough, didn't liberate enough and that the late showing of evidence and righting of the wrong were the makings of a conspiracy for the sole purpose of boosting an election. The seal of God Himself providing the tablets would be inconsequential because the frenzied masses would already have insisted that "God" not be brought into the discussion and that even if God were relevant she certainly wouldn't care about an election.

You could be right, but the question is: Would God present Stone Tablets of something that was not True?

Bush was wrong, I presume that God wouldn't support Bush if He knew Bush was wrong. Your post is the worst kind of Strawman, using peoples disbelief of a Perfect Being and ignoring the clear facts at the sametime to somehow justify someones Error, Exagerations, Half-Truths, and known Deceptions.

In these waters, a hook (even a dull one) will reward a catch. The mention of "God" in my statement is not the King's new robe. It is a segue bringing attention to the fact that there is no matter of proof that will bring apology. Replace "God" in my statement with anyone else's idea of infallible source and you will have the same import. There will be no apology without qualification from those who believe the President owes one now.
 

sandorski

No Lifer
Oct 10, 1999
70,806
6,362
126
Originally posted by: Sketcher
Originally posted by: sandorski
Originally posted by: Sketcher
Stone Tablets from on-High could be presented to the United Nations by God Himself; presenting the evidence of which Bush has become labeled the liar's liar for championing, and it wouldn't be enough. The criers would then whine that the news wasn't timely enough, wasn't sensational enough, didn't liberate enough and that the late showing of evidence and righting of the wrong were the makings of a conspiracy for the sole purpose of boosting an election. The seal of God Himself providing the tablets would be inconsequential because the frenzied masses would already have insisted that "God" not be brought into the discussion and that even if God were relevant she certainly wouldn't care about an election.

You could be right, but the question is: Would God present Stone Tablets of something that was not True?

Bush was wrong, I presume that God wouldn't support Bush if He knew Bush was wrong. Your post is the worst kind of Strawman, using peoples disbelief of a Perfect Being and ignoring the clear facts at the sametime to somehow justify someones Error, Exagerations, Half-Truths, and known Deceptions.

In these waters, a hook (even a dull one) will reward a catch. The mention of "God" in my statement is not the King's new robe. It is a segue bringing attention to the fact that there is no matter of proof that will bring apology. Replace "God" in my statement with anyone else's idea of infallible source and you will have the same import. There will be no apology without qualification from those who believe the President owes one now.

It is still a moot point, as Bush was wrong. (period) He owes everybody else an Apology, not the other way around.
 

Sketcher

Platinum Member
Aug 15, 2001
2,237
0
0
Originally posted by: sandorski
Originally posted by: Sketcher
Originally posted by: sandorski
Originally posted by: Sketcher
Stone Tablets from on-High could be presented to the United Nations by God Himself; presenting the evidence of which Bush has become labeled the liar's liar for championing, and it wouldn't be enough. The criers would then whine that the news wasn't timely enough, wasn't sensational enough, didn't liberate enough and that the late showing of evidence and righting of the wrong were the makings of a conspiracy for the sole purpose of boosting an election. The seal of God Himself providing the tablets would be inconsequential because the frenzied masses would already have insisted that "God" not be brought into the discussion and that even if God were relevant she certainly wouldn't care about an election.

You could be right, but the question is: Would God present Stone Tablets of something that was not True?

Bush was wrong, I presume that God wouldn't support Bush if He knew Bush was wrong. Your post is the worst kind of Strawman, using peoples disbelief of a Perfect Being and ignoring the clear facts at the sametime to somehow justify someones Error, Exagerations, Half-Truths, and known Deceptions.

In these waters, a hook (even a dull one) will reward a catch. The mention of "God" in my statement is not the King's new robe. It is a segue bringing attention to the fact that there is no matter of proof that will bring apology. Replace "God" in my statement with anyone else's idea of infallible source and you will have the same import. There will be no apology without qualification from those who believe the President owes one now.

It is still a moot point, as Bush was wrong. (period) He owes everybody else an Apology, not the other way around.

My case rests itself.
 

sandorski

No Lifer
Oct 10, 1999
70,806
6,362
126
Originally posted by: Sketcher
Originally posted by: sandorski
Originally posted by: Sketcher
Originally posted by: sandorski
Originally posted by: Sketcher
Stone Tablets from on-High could be presented to the United Nations by God Himself; presenting the evidence of which Bush has become labeled the liar's liar for championing, and it wouldn't be enough. The criers would then whine that the news wasn't timely enough, wasn't sensational enough, didn't liberate enough and that the late showing of evidence and righting of the wrong were the makings of a conspiracy for the sole purpose of boosting an election. The seal of God Himself providing the tablets would be inconsequential because the frenzied masses would already have insisted that "God" not be brought into the discussion and that even if God were relevant she certainly wouldn't care about an election.

You could be right, but the question is: Would God present Stone Tablets of something that was not True?

Bush was wrong, I presume that God wouldn't support Bush if He knew Bush was wrong. Your post is the worst kind of Strawman, using peoples disbelief of a Perfect Being and ignoring the clear facts at the sametime to somehow justify someones Error, Exagerations, Half-Truths, and known Deceptions.

In these waters, a hook (even a dull one) will reward a catch. The mention of "God" in my statement is not the King's new robe. It is a segue bringing attention to the fact that there is no matter of proof that will bring apology. Replace "God" in my statement with anyone else's idea of infallible source and you will have the same import. There will be no apology without qualification from those who believe the President owes one now.

It is still a moot point, as Bush was wrong. (period) He owes everybody else an Apology, not the other way around.

My case rests itself.

A good Judge would declare a Mistrial at this point. The Defence(you) has failed to provide a Defence.
 

Sketcher

Platinum Member
Aug 15, 2001
2,237
0
0
Originally posted by: sandorski
Originally posted by: Sketcher
Originally posted by: sandorski
Originally posted by: Sketcher
Originally posted by: sandorski
Originally posted by: Sketcher
Stone Tablets from on-High could be presented to the United Nations by God Himself; presenting the evidence of which Bush has become labeled the liar's liar for championing, and it wouldn't be enough. The criers would then whine that the news wasn't timely enough, wasn't sensational enough, didn't liberate enough and that the late showing of evidence and righting of the wrong were the makings of a conspiracy for the sole purpose of boosting an election. The seal of God Himself providing the tablets would be inconsequential because the frenzied masses would already have insisted that "God" not be brought into the discussion and that even if God were relevant she certainly wouldn't care about an election.

You could be right, but the question is: Would God present Stone Tablets of something that was not True?

Bush was wrong, I presume that God wouldn't support Bush if He knew Bush was wrong. Your post is the worst kind of Strawman, using peoples disbelief of a Perfect Being and ignoring the clear facts at the sametime to somehow justify someones Error, Exagerations, Half-Truths, and known Deceptions.

In these waters, a hook (even a dull one) will reward a catch. The mention of "God" in my statement is not the King's new robe. It is a segue bringing attention to the fact that there is no matter of proof that will bring apology. Replace "God" in my statement with anyone else's idea of infallible source and you will have the same import. There will be no apology without qualification from those who believe the President owes one now.

It is still a moot point, as Bush was wrong. (period) He owes everybody else an Apology, not the other way around.

My case rests itself.

A good Judge would declare a Mistrial at this point. The Defence(you) has failed to provide a Defence.

"Missing the forest for the trees" a phrase people around you mutter often? A defense is not needed for an issue that is not in question. Here are the Cliff's notes for my [too cryptic for at least one] post: "It does not matter if proof is found, in any capacity. Those who cry fowl now, will do the same even in light of proof." I do not make claim of proof, I do not claim that Bush did not lie, I do not like green eggs and ham, I point out that even if the proof that naysayers decry is provided it will not be sufficient. Please do be a troll and point out that Dr. Suess was an Independant though his publishing company supports the right; which somehow invalidates my statement about apologies notwithstanding.
 

CADsortaGUY

Lifer
Oct 19, 2001
25,162
1
76
www.ShawCAD.com
Originally posted by: conjur
Originally posted by: CADkindaGUY
Originally posted by: conjur
And that fashion would be???

I've repeatedly told of how I would have handled Saddam, or how I would have like to have seen the whole Iraq situation transpire. Suffice it to say that Saddam would have been gone long ago. He had his chance(s) - he failed to follow through and we(and the world) basically appeased him for far too long.

CkG

Care to point out a thread where you stated your position, oh Master of Diversion and Backpedaling?


BTW, I see you failed to answer my other response to you.

I've repeatedly stated my position on this war. Infact I had many conversations with Lunyray over it - you might try reading those.

Yes, I did miss your response - I'll have to read it and see what your spin is this time...

CkG
 

CADsortaGUY

Lifer
Oct 19, 2001
25,162
1
76
www.ShawCAD.com
Originally posted by: conjur
Originally posted by: CADkindaGUY
Originally posted by: conjur
Originally posted by: CADkindaGUY
Originally posted by: conjur
Your position is so weak, CkG, it's completely laughable!!

Do you honestly think the Senate had the knowledge of all of the intelligence data that the administration had? Do you not remember that the Senators didn't receive the final intelligence report until a few days before the vote?

Do you honestly think the Senators saw the unvetted intelligence data that Wolfowitz/Feith were using in their DIA?
No, no it's not.
It doesn't matter if you try to claim they didn't see all the intel. They are supposed to have over-sight of the intel process - you know...separation of powers and all that so there isn't agenda driven intel;) Seems to me the ones who are at fault here is not only the CIA for not getting and putting together better intel - but the "intelligence" committee who has oversight. They should have demanded better proof before Bush was ever in office over this whole Saddam/Iraq business. According to your ever so wonderful Blix(or was it Ritter) - supposedly the WMDs weren't there after 1994. So what's the excuse for Clinton's little adventure? Why didn't they follow up to see if they "got it all"? Where was the intel oversight in the last decade or two that was actually making sure the CIA was getting it right?
Yes, the CIA and others intel agencies across the globe got some things wrong - but where was the oversight by those who's job it is to oversee the intel agencies? Hmm....

I don't care what you are try to claim by asking what you are. I really don't care if it's vetted or unvetted - the "intelligence" committee has oversight over the CIA - correct? Why only now are they demanding better intelligence and "proof"? Why weren't these people, who are making these reports blasting the CIA, doing their job and making sure the CIA was giving the President the the rest of Congress the best intel possible? The answer is - they weren't doing their job. They have over-sight - it's their responsibility....separation of powers and all;)

CkG
The Senate does not oversee the intelligence provided by the administration.
I never stated it did.;)
Uh, yes you did. See the part above that I bolded? You were replying to my post where I mention the Senate and the Senators (meaning all Senators in the Senate.) I know you're going to try and backpedal and say you were talking about the intelligence committee but you weren't talking about the intelligence committee there. You will also try and say you are not backpedaling.
:roll: well, no kidding I'll say I'm not backpedaling - because I'm not. YOU might have ASSumed I was taking about the Senate, but in reality I was talking about the Intelligence oversight committees.
First the quotes I posted are from a Senator who is on the committee.
Second(if you would have READ what I posted) you'd have read this: "since they had "intelligence" oversight and voted FOR the war".
Oops - here is something else I stated - "but the "intelligence" committee who has oversight"
Here is yet another clue for you Sherlock - ""intelligence" committee has oversight over the CIA - correct?"
I never stated what you are trying to claim I did - it was just you not understanding or just your usual obfuscation.
The Senate Intelligence Committee does.
That is what I asked. "Does the intelligence oversight committees not over-see the CIA?"
Only when it's thought that the CIA has erred or when complaints have been filed:

Rule 6. Investigations
No investigation shall be initiated by the Committee unless at least five members of the Committee have specifically requested the Chairman or the Vice Chairman to authorize such an investigation. Authorized investigations may be conducted by members of the Committee and/or designated Committee staff members.

Rule 7. Subpoenas
Subpoenas authorized by the Committee for the attendance of witnesses or the production of memoranda, documents, records or any other material may be issued by the Chairman, the Vice Chairman, or any member of the Committee designated by the Chairman, and may be served by any person designated by the Chairman, Vice Chairman or member issuing the subpoenas. Each subpoena shall have attached thereto a copy of S. Res. 400, 94th Congress, 2nd Session and a copy of these Rules.
I take that as a "yes" to my question? It doesn't matter - they didn't question it did they? They weren't making sure the intelligence agencies, which they had oversight of, were providing the best intelligence possible - no?
Also, and this is the key aspect that most Bush fans blatantly ignore, the vote to authorize the President to use force was only to use force as a last resort: after diplomacy, sanctions, and inspections failed.

Did the President exhause diplomatic means? No.
IMO - yes - Saddam had not fulfilled his end of the agreement. "Diplomacy" only goes so far and in this case it would not have solved the situation. Do you really think Saddam would have given in and actually followed through? Are you really that naive?
Are you really that narrow-minded? How much diplomacy was Bush using with the Arab nations, the Arab League, etc. How much diplomacy did Bush use in making an effort to revisit the Israeli/Palestinian conflict (a great source of Saddam's hatred of the U.S. - our support, mostly military, of Israel)? NONE.
:roll: How much diplomacy worked in getting him to comply with what he had promised to do? How much had he fulfilled? The FACT is that he was never in compliance and should have been dealt with according to the terms of the agreement...which just happened to be a CEASE-FIRE.;)
Did the President seek to alter economic sanctions as recommended by Colin Powell? No.
your point? Do you really think more economic sanctions would have changed things? Are you purposely ignoring the oil-for-fools program?
My point is did the President seek to alter the economic sanctions that had been levied against Iraq.

Speaking at a hearing of the Senate Foreign Relations Committee, Powell said the Iraqi leader Saddam Hussein "must have the U.N. inspectors go back into the country if he wants to get out of sanctions, if he wants to regain control of the oil-for-food escrow accounts."

Although it is still formulating a policy for Iraq, the Bush administration is moving to support removing curbs on trade with Iraq on consumer goods while maintaining curbs on assistance to Saddam's weapons program and on the flow of oil.

Powell denied that modifying the sanctions to ease their impact on civilians represented a retreat by the Bush administration. He said: "What we are trying to do is to see how we could stabilize the collapsing situation."

"This wasn't an effort to ease the sanctions; this was an effort to rescue the sanctions policy that was collapsing," Powell said.


How much effort did Bush exert to follow through on that? NONE.
And? Just because Powell said it, he has to do it? I see no reason to believe that Saddam would have suddenly complied because more/different/lesser economic sanctions were applied. Do you remember that little thing called the OIL-FOR-FOOLS program that is being flushed out? Nah....we'll just forget that...:roll:
Did the President allow inspectors to properly do their job? No.
Did Saddam allow the inspectors to properly do their job? NO. The easter egg hunters weren't there to find WMD - they were supposed to be there to document, inspect, and destroy the weapons - not go find them. Ofcourse people don't really understand the "inspectors" job due to their willing ignorance or purposeful mischaracterization of what they were there to do.
The inspectors had unprecedented access to any site they requested to visit:
http://www.un.org/Depts/unmovic/Bx27.htm
Cooperation on process

It has regard to the procedures, mechanisms, infrastructure and practical arrangements to pursue inspections and seek verifiable disarmament. While inspection is not built on the premise of confidence but may lead to confidence if it is successful, there must nevertheless be a measure of mutual confidence from the very beginning in running the operation of inspection.

Iraq has on the whole cooperated rather well so far with UNMOVIC in this field. The most important point to make is that access has been provided to all sites we have wanted to inspect and with one exception it has been prompt. We have further had great help in building up the infrastructure of our office in Baghdad and the field office in Mosul. Arrangements and services for our plane and our helicopters have been good. The environment has been workable.

Our inspections have included universities, military bases, presidential sites and private residences. Inspections have also taken place on Fridays, the Muslim day of rest, on Christmas day and New Years day. These inspections have been conducted in the same manner as all other inspections. We seek to be both effective and correct.


Some incidents were noted by Blix but they did not interfere with their ability to finish reviewing locations.
That isn't full compliance. The inspectors weren't supposed to be there for an easter egg hunt. Again, the FACT is Saddam did not fully comply with his agreement. I'd like to see you show how many of the things he agreed to do - actually got fully completed. I'm sure it won't take you much time - the list isn't very long;)
Now we see the Senate Intelligence Committee doing its investigatory work and what they've found so far is damning. There's still the second phase yet to come: the investigation into the administration's use or misuse of the data.
Maybe the Intelligence Committee should have kept closer tabs on the CIA - no? Isn't that their JOB? It will definitely prove to be a useful "investigation" but due to their gross incompetence at "over sight" the CIA didn't provide accurate data. Now yes - it's the CIA's fault for the intelligence failures, but the oversight committee should constantly be keeping tabs on the intel agencies to make sure they are providing the best intel available. They failed in their oversight duties.
See my earlier response.
Still doesn't excuse them not keeping tabs on them.
Oh, and one more thing. If you were provided the data the CIA provided - would you have acted? Would you have seen a threat? Or would you have passed it off? Now be honest and try to leave hindsight out of the equation. No one in their right mind would have just ignored the data provided. Remember - you are part of the crowd bleating about not connecting the dots before 9/11 yet here you sit whining about connecting too many dots and acting. Seems a bit disingenuous if you ask me.
Given the data the CIA provided? No.

Given the data provided by the DIA? Probably. And that's what was used as the basis for the justification. Remember, the CIA had broken off relations with the INC in 1996 and knew they were not a credible organization. That didn't stop Feith, though, did it?
Umm...you supported the war - correct? And you do know that the CIA provided intel for that right? Are you calling yourself a liar? You obviously thought there was a threat, otherwise you wouldn't have supported the war - right? Isn't that what you've been claiming?....that you were duped?
BTW- yes your actions regarding the "troll" situation were childish.

CkG
No, *you* were the one that edited jpeyton's response from "OWNED" to "troll". It is that display of your childish behavior to which I was referring.
No, I'm referring to your childish game of labeling people, who's opinions and conclusions you don't agree with, trolls.

I'm sure you'll come back and claim you are right....:roll: (wheeee that was a fun and worthwhile comment :Roll;)

CkG
 

CADsortaGUY

Lifer
Oct 19, 2001
25,162
1
76
www.ShawCAD.com
Originally posted by: burnedout
From the "discredited, mint tea sippers" department.

[Hat tip: The Sage of Knoxville

Now that we've firmly established the fact that Joe Wilson is little more than a DAMN LIAR, a rather interesting statement at the bottom of old Joe's webpage provides us with even more revealing insight.

[Please scroll to the bottom of the page]

*-drum roll, please-*

Paid for by John Kerry for President, Inc

<Dikembe Mutombo>HA.... HA.... HA.... HA.... HA.... </Dikembe Mutombo>

"I'm not a politician and I'm not a political partisan." Yeah, whatever. So long, Joe.

Buahahahaha. Nice find..errr...well Nice post.:)

CkG
 

Gaard

Diamond Member
Feb 17, 2002
8,911
1
0
And contrary to Wilson's assertions and even the government's previous statements, the CIA did not tell the White House it had qualms about the reliability of the Africa intelligence that made its way into 16 fateful words in President Bush's January 2003 State of the Union address.

Hmmm, I'm trying to figure out how I should take this statement.
 

Gaard

Diamond Member
Feb 17, 2002
8,911
1
0
Wilson responds

Joseph Wilson vs. the right-wing conspiracy
Gleeful conservatives insist the Senate Intelligence Committee report impeached the former ambassador's claims about Iraq and uranium. But Wilson is firing back.

- - - - - - - - - - - -
By Mary Jacoby

July 16, 2004 | WASHINGTON -- Choreographed editorials and Op-Ed pieces on Thursday in the Wall Street Journal and National Review and by conservative columnist Robert Novak signaled the revving up of a Republican campaign to discredit former ambassador Joseph Wilson and his claims that President Bush trumpeted flimsy intelligence in the drive to invade Iraq.

The opinion pieces came on the heels of a July 10 report in the Washington Post that said Wilson lied when he claimed in public statements that his wife, a covert Central Intelligence Agency officer, had not recommended him for a fact-finding mission to Niger in 2002.

It was on this CIA-sponsored trip more than two years ago that Wilson concluded there was no truth to a British intelligence report, highly prized by the White House, that Saddam Hussein had sought to purchase uranium for nuclear weapons from the African nation. When Bush repeated the questionable claim in a January 2003 State of the Union address, Wilson wrote publicly about his trip and his findings in an Op-Ed piece in the New York Times, setting off a political firestorm. The first chapter in the drama appeared to end when the White House admitted that Bush should not have said: "The British government has learned that Saddam Hussein recently sought significant quantities of uranium from Africa."

But the Senate Intelligence Committee's release of a report last week on prewar intelligence failures has resurrected the Niger controversy. The report, amplified by Washington Post reporter Susan Schmidt and right-wing opinion writers, prompted the retired diplomat on Thursday to send a six-page rebuttal to the panel's chairman, Sen. Pat Roberts, R-Kan., and its ranking Democrat, Sen. Jay Rockefeller of West Virginia. An aide to Rockefeller did not return phone calls, while a Republican intelligence committee staffer who was asked to comment on Wilson's letter said, "Our report speaks for itself."

The new questions about Wilson and his motives come as polls show Bush approval ratings floundering amid falling support for the war in Iraq. The campaign of presumed Democratic presidential nominee Sen. John Kerry of Massachusetts has sharply questioned Bush's candor and credibility, and a special prosecutor is wrapping up an investigation into which senior administration official leaked Plame's name to columnist Novak. Wilson has said the apparently illegal disclosure of his wife's identify (she was a covert CIA officer) was made in retaliation for his speaking out about the lack of evidence in Niger.

The dispute over the committee report centers on its interpretation of two facts. One is that Wilson told his CIA debriefers that during his Niger trip, he spoke to the country's former prime minister, who told him that members of an Iraqi delegation in the late 1990s expressed interest in expanded commercial contacts with Niger. The former prime minister told Wilson that he interpreted the comment to mean that Iraq was interested in buying uranium, although the word "uranium" was not mentioned in the Iraqis' conversation, he said. The prime minister, fearful of United Nations sanctions that prevented trade with Iraq at the time, dropped the subject, Wilson reported.

But because the ex-minister believed the Iraqis were seeking uranium, the Senate report concluded that whether Iraq sought uranium in Africa remains an open question -- a conclusion Wilson disputes. It further reported that far from debunking the notion that Iraq was seeking uranium for weapons, Wilson's trip to Niger actually bolstered the story, at least in the view of some intelligence analysts, who found the news that the former prime minister believed the Iraqis were trying to buy uranium convincing. But no sale of uranium ever took place, Wilson reported, and that conclusion is not in dispute. Wilson did report that Iraq's neighbor, Iran, had tried to buy 400 tons of uranium from Niger in 1998.

The report also quotes an internal CIA memo written by Wilson's wife, Plame, stating: "my husband has good relations with both the PM (prime minister) and the former Minister of Mines (not to mention lots of French contacts), both of whom could possibly shed light on this sort of activity." Based on Plame's internal memo and other evidence, three Republicans -- Roberts and Sens. Orrin Hatch of Utah and Kit Bond of Missouri -- wrote additional views appended to the report, concluding that "the plan to send the former ambassador to Niger was suggested" by Plame. The three GOP senators criticized their Democratic counterparts on the panel for refusing to endorse this conclusion.

In his letter to the committee, Wilson disputed the Republican senators' characterization. "There is no suggestion or recommendation in that statement that I be sent on the trip," he wrote. A CIA spokeswoman declined to comment. In an interview, Wilson said that his wife was stating facts about his background, not pushing that he go to Niger.

The Washington Post story, meanwhile, took the disputed Senate report conclusions even further. It stated in its lead that Wilson was "specifically recommended for the mission by his wife ... contrary to what he has said publicly." In the interview, Wilson argued that the Post story failed to make clear that only the intelligence panel's Republicans, and not its Democrats, came to that conclusion. He said he has written a letter of protest to the Post.

The Post article also contained one acknowledged error: In trying to build a case that Wilson's Niger trip had actually bolstered the administration's claims, Schmidt wrote that Wilson had told the CIA that Iraq had tried to buy 400 tons of uranium from Niger in 1998. In fact, it was Iran that Wilson said had tried to make the purchase, as the Senate report states. The Post ran a correction.
 

Bowfinger

Lifer
Nov 17, 2002
15,776
392
126
Originally posted by: CADkindaGUY
Originally posted by: burnedout
From the "discredited, mint tea sippers" department.

[Hat tip: The Sage of Knoxville

Now that we've firmly established the fact that Joe Wilson is little more than a DAMN LIAR, a rather interesting statement at the bottom of old Joe's webpage provides us with even more revealing insight.

[Please scroll to the bottom of the page]

*-drum roll, please-*

Paid for by John Kerry for President, Inc

<Dikembe Mutombo>HA.... HA.... HA.... HA.... HA.... </Dikembe Mutombo>

"I'm not a politician and I'm not a political partisan." Yeah, whatever. So long, Joe.

Buahahahaha. Nice find..errr...well Nice post.:)

CkG
You are both confusing cause and effect. I suspect you might abandon neutrality too if you discovered first-hand that one candidate was a unrepentant liar, and that said candidate's minions retaliated by ruining your spouse's career and potentially even her life.

(At least I hope for the sake of your family you haven't swilled so much Bush Kool-Aid that you'd overlook such reprehensible behavior.)
 

Gaard

Diamond Member
Feb 17, 2002
8,911
1
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Ex-Niger premier denies Iraq link

Niger's former prime minister has said that Iraq did not try to buy uranium, contradicting claims made in the build-up to the invasion of Iraq.

Ibrahim Mayaki told the BBC that no Iraqi delegation went to Niger while he was foreign minister or prime minister.

An official report into UK intelligence supported the claims that Iraq had sought to buy uranium from Niger.

Although some documents backing up this claim were shown to be forgeries, the UK has not withdrawn the charge.

Last week's US Senate report on the intelligence leading up to the Iraq invasion said that Saddam Hussein's government may have tried to buy uranium from Africa.

Following the discovery of the forgeries, President George W Bush withdrew the charges.

'Easily verified'

Mr Mayaki denies allegations in the Senate report that he admitted meeting a delegation from Iraq in 1999.

The report says that he expected to discuss uranium with the Iraqi delegation but managed to steer the conversation in another direction.

But Mr Mayaki now says he has no recollection of such a meeting, while he was in government from 1999-2001.

"I think this could be easily verified by the Western intelligence services and by the authorities in Niger," he said.

Claims that an African country had supplied Iraq with uranium were first made in a dossier compiled by the British intelligence services on Iraq's weapons of mass destruction, made public in September 2002.

The chair of the UK enquiry into the quality of British intelligence on Iraqi weapons of mass destruction said this information had come from several sources.

The forged documents were not available to the British government when it was making its case for the war and so did not undermine its conclusion, Lord Butler said.
 

Riprorin

Banned
Apr 25, 2000
9,634
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Time to apologize to Bush

Earlier this week, Americans learned from the Senate Intelligence Committee (SIC) report that the Bush administration did not lie about or manipulate intelligence in the run-up to the Iraq invasion. To reiterate, the report found "no evidence that the [intelligence community's] mischaracterization or exaggeration of [Iraq's] weapons of mass destruction capabilities was the result of political pressure ... The Committee did not find any evidence that Administration officials attempted to coerce, influence or pressure analysts to change their judgments related to Iraq's weapons of mass destruction."
Yesterday, a British inquiry exonerated the Blair government of exactly the same charge. "We should record in particular that we have found no evidence of deliberate distortion or of culpable negligence [on the part of the Blair administration]. We found no evidence of [Joint Intelligence Committee] assessments and the judgments inside them being pulled in any particular direction to meet the policy concerns of senior officials on the JIC," the report said.

The British report also agreed with the SIC about the nature of Iraq's weapons programs. In short, intelligence on Iraq's weapons programs on both sides of the Atlantic was flawed, but no one "lied" about it. Both President Bush and Prime Minister Tony Blair acted in good faith given the intelligence provided by their respective agencies. This is the nature of leadership.
But a funny thing happened on the way to the 2004 elections. Soon after the fall of Baghdad, it started to become clear that Saddam Hussein did not have the weapons programs everyone believed he had. Urged along by one dissembling former ambassador, the Democrats soon lost control and began to accuse the president of the United States of lying to, or at least misleading, the American people.
To name only a few, the Democratic National Committee (DNC), in a television ad, mentioned the "yellowcake" reference in the president's 2003 State of the Union, adding "the administration knew it wasn't true ... It's time to tell the truth." (No, it was true, then as now.) The DNC Web site also informed readers about the administration's "year-long campaign of deception involving a bogus intelligence report on Iraq's nuclear program." DNC Chairman Terry McAuliffe huffed, "This may be the first time in recent memory that a president knowingly misled the American people during the State of the Union address." According to John Kerry, Mr. Bush "misled every one of us." Sen. Joseph Biden believed the administration "hyped [the intelligence] ... to create a sense of urgency and a threat." Sen. Carl Levin said, "The statement that Iraq was attempting to acquire African uranium was not an inadvertent mistake. It was negotiated between CIA and National Security Council officials, and it was highly misleading."
We agree with the Wall Street Journal on this matter: Apologies are in order.

Link
 

conjur

No Lifer
Jun 7, 2001
58,686
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Again, Rip, you are misusing the first phase of the Senate Intelligence Committee's report. This phase was NOT about determining how the Bush administration misused or coerced those in the intelligence community. That phase is now underway but may not be completed until after the election. Rather, convenient, eh? Also rather convenient that the committee is 9-8 in favor of the Republicans, eh?


And, again, you are using a right-wing newssite as a source for your claims. Have you ever linked to anything besides WND or the Wash. Times?
 

Moonbeam

Elite Member
Nov 24, 1999
74,815
6,778
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War supporters of the Commander and Thief both supported the overthrow of the legitimate government of the United States and then supported the mass murder of American service men and Iraqi women and children in an illegal and immoral war of American style imperialism. They also pretend, in many cases to be Christian. It is going to be very difficult to convince them of the error of their thinking because, of course, a real vision of the truth would tell them they are going to Hell. It's brutal to live behind a pretense. It sort of skews your vision.
 

burnedout

Diamond Member
Oct 12, 1999
6,249
2
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Originally posted by: Gaard

By Mary Jacoby
Mary Jacoby was General Clark's former press spokesperson. Her diatribe amounts to little more than rabid partisanship in accusing the vast right-wing conspiracy of initiating a PR campaign (i.e. "choreographed editorials").

When the Senate and/or British change their minds regarding Uncle Joe, then so will I.
 

conjur

No Lifer
Jun 7, 2001
58,686
3
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Originally posted by: burnedout
Originally posted by: Gaard

By Mary Jacoby
Mary Jacoby was General Clark's former press spokesperson. Her diatribe amounts to little more than rabid partisanship in accusing the vast right-wing conspiracy of initiating a PR campaign (i.e. "choreographed editorials").

When the Senate and/or British change their minds regarding Uncle Joe, then so will I.

Attack the messenger and avoid the message, eh?

Ok, then, how about the fact that the Republicans of the Senate Intelligence Committee are the ones who are trying so desperately to prove Wilson lied in any fashion? Is that not partisanship? Esp. considering Rice admitted those 16 words should not have been in the SotU address.
 

Riprorin

Banned
Apr 25, 2000
9,634
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Sixteen Truthful Words
By WILLIAM SAFIRE

Published: July 19, 2004

"The British government has learned that Saddam Hussein recently sought significant quantities of uranium from Africa."

? George W. Bush, State of the Union address, Jan. 28, 2003

WASHINGTON

Those were "the 16 words" in a momentous message to a joint session of Congress that were pounced on by the wrong-war left to become the simple centerpiece of its angry accusation that "Bush lied to us" ? or, as John Kerry more delicately puts it ? "misled" us into thinking that Saddam's Iraq posed a danger to the U.S.

The he-lied-to-us charge was led by Joseph Wilson, a former diplomat sent in early 2002 by the C.I.A. to Niger to check out reports by several European intelligence services that Iraq had secretly tried to buy that African nation's only major export, "yellowcake" uranium ore.

Wilson testified to the Senate Intelligence Committee that he had assured U.S. officials back in 2002 that "there was nothing to the story." When columnist Robert Novak raised the question of nepotism by reporting that he got the assignment at the urging of his C.I.A. wife, Wilson denied that heatedly and denounced her "outing," triggering an investigation. The skilled self-promoter was then embraced as an antiwar martyr, sold a book with "truth" in its title, appeared on the cover of Time and every TV talk show denouncing Bush.

Two exhaustive government reports came out last week showing that it is the president's lionized accuser, and not Mr. Bush, who has been having trouble with the truth.

Contrary to his indignant claim that "Valerie had nothing to do with the matter" of selecting him for the African trip, the Senate published testimony that his C.I.A. wife had "offered up his name" and printed her memo to her boss that "my husband has good relations" with Niger officials and "lots of French contacts." Further destroying his credibility, Wilson now insists this strong pitch did not constitute a recommendation.

More important, it now turns out that senators believe his report to the C.I.A. after visiting Niger actually bolstered the case that Saddam sought ? Bush's truthful verb was "sought" ? yellowcake, the stuff of nuclear bombs. The C.I.A. gave Wilson's report a "good" grade because "the Nigerien officials admitted that the Iraqi delegation had traveled there in 1999 and that the Nigerien Prime Minister believed the Iraqis were interested in purchasing uranium" ? confirming what the British and Italian intelligence services had told us from their own sources.

But a C.I.A. analyst opined "the Brits have exaggerated this issue" because "the Iraqis already have 550 metric tons of uranium oxide in their inventory."

State Department intelligence also was dubious, reports the Senate, more so in October when an Italian journalist brought in a bunch of phony documents somebody was trying to sell him about a Niger uranium transaction. This outweighed the report of a top security official in the French Foreign Ministry, who told U.S. diplomats in November 2002 that "France believed the reporting was true that Iraq had made a procurement attempt for uranium from Niger."

Two months later, with no objection from C.I.A., the famous 16 words went into Bush's 2003 State of the Union.

But when word leaked about the fake documents ? which were not the basis of the previous reporting by our allies ? Wilson launched his publicity campaign, acting as if he had known earlier about the forgeries. The Senate reports that in his misleading anonymous leak to The Washington Post, "He said he may have misspoken . . . he said he may have become confused about his own recollection. . . ." The subsequent firestorm caused the White House to retreat prematurely with: "the sixteen words did not rise to the level of inclusion in the State of the Union address."

That apology was a mistake; Bush had spoken the plain truth. Did Saddam seek uranium from Africa, evidence of his continuing illegal interest in a nuclear weapon? Here is Lord Butler's nonpartisan panel, which closely examined the basis of the British intelligence:

". . . we conclude that the statement in President Bush's State of the Union Address of 28 January 2003 that `The British Government has learned that Saddam Hussein recently sought significant quantities of uranium from Africa' was well-founded."

Link
 

burnedout

Diamond Member
Oct 12, 1999
6,249
2
0
Originally posted by: conjur

Attack the messenger and avoid the message, eh?

Ok, then, how about the fact that the Republicans of the Senate Intelligence Committee are the ones who are trying so desperately to prove Wilson lied in any fashion? Is that not partisanship? Esp. considering Rice admitted those 16 words should not have been in the SotU address.
What in the hell is there to avoid? That another one of your boys is a damn partisan hack?!?

OK, I'll play another one of your delusionally fallacious little games. Why haven't any of the other DemocRAT senators come to your boy's defense? You wanna know why? Because they are most certainly aware that he's hosed up like a damned grapefruit!

Furthermore, the Washington Post Ombudsman stands behind the story.. I'll repeat one more time. The WaPo Ombudsman stands behind the story.

No, sorry, you, Josh Marshall and the rest of the Uncle Joe fanbois got your asses owned.
 

conjur

No Lifer
Jun 7, 2001
58,686
3
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Why did Rice admit those 16 words should NOT have been in the SotU address?

Why are the Republicans on the SIC playing partisan politics and reading more into the story than is there?

Why are you dismissing Vincent Cannistraro's testimony?