It's official: Tyan doesn't support their products.

[SilentRunning]

Redshirt, you are missing the point here. Technology changes at a fast pace. His computer was working (maybe not the way he wanted it to, but it was working). However, he wants to change the operating system and he thinks that the manufacturer should support an OS which didn't exist when they designed the motherboard.

To use his automobile analogy. It would be like expecting a car manufacturer to give you a new more fuel efficient engine and drive train on a two-year-old car because the government sets a new CAFE standard this year.

Hardware, is hard wired, it can't be changed. Software, such as the bios can. But the bios in constrained to how the hardware was designed. His motherboard was designed to meet certain defined standards (which are stated in his motherboard manual). If it doesn't meet those standards then he is within his right to ask the company to repair or replace the motherboard. But they are not obligated to make it meet any other standards than those it is advertised as supporting.

Why doesn't he ask microsoft to design the OS to work with his motherboard, that makes just as much sense.

 

[wdb1966]

SR...You are closer to reality than you think...both MS and most board makers used ACPI implimentations that were rather "loose"...not exactly to spec, but they worked. Over time MS has streamlined theirs to make it a very tight fit to the real spec, unlike many board makers.

ACPI is not an MS only spec, and such is not "controlled" by MS. The fact is that while this board may have worked with 98se, the BIOS code was still not in compliance with the ACPI spec of that time...which Win2k showed very well when it was introduced.

As I pointed out before, Tyan need do nothing more than post their own 106e beta BIOS, which has fixed ACPI & the temp readings on my board, and let those of us who need it put it to use.

As for the IDE performance...not really an issue anymore, add a PCI card & goto ATA-100.

 

[Sunner]

If the board works with the OS's Tyan said it would(Win95, 98, and NT from the Windows family assuming SR didn't just make that up), then Tyan has filled their obligation, end of story.

If it works with Win2K and XP, thats a bonus, they never said it would to start with, so it may, or it may not work, but don't count on it.

If I had a SS7 box today, I'd go for Win2K, but if that didn't work, I'd go with 98, not go bug the manufacturer of my mobo.
If your company insists on you installing XP, tell them to give you a new box, what you run at home is none of their business.

I do agree on the switched temp thing though, not a big deal, but it's sloppy, especially for a company that's known for high quality products.

 

[erikistired]

as cheap as computers are these days you are complaining that a socket 7 board won't work with the newest MS operating systems? uhhhhhhh. okay.

*scratching my head over this* i should dig out that box of socket 7 boards i have at work and start trying to load xp on them, demanding that they fix every board that doesn't work. that way the companies can waste their money supporting dead technology and won't be able to afford to R&D new stuff. wheeeee. </sarcasm>

~erik

 

[flyinggirl]

????!!!!

 

[wdb1966]

Its not like this machine is pathetic & slow @ 600mhz w/768mb RAM & an ATA-100 card...it can do just about anything but heavy video editing work or high-end gaming...neither which is the end use. Win2k & XP run very snappy on it. Anything that it can't do, my T-Bird 1.4ghz will.

Yes it may run the OSs that the manual states, however that does not make it ACPI 1.0 compliant...something that Tyan themselves said it was not...after the fact. That is where the warranty issue comes into play.

Don't get me wrong, I'm happy with how mine runs now that I have the beta 106e BIOS, but I did not get it from Tyan. They are the ones that should be making it available...at least until the board is out of warranty. Its really that simple, just post the BIOS that they already have.

My Ga-7IXE4 board did not meet the updated ACPI spec of XP (which did not exist when the board was released over a year ago, so that argument is a moot point) but Gigabyte quickly made a BIOS update for its "old" design...without being asked...I don't even know if its under warranty anymore.

 

[chucky2]

For everyone that says if Tyan didn't say it in the manual, then they don't have to support it.

I want everyone to read the following manual (its in .pdf format): Thunder K7 S2462 Manual.

Nowhere in there does it say that it supports anything but the ACPI 1.0 spec. That's the same thing it say in the S1598 manual.

Nowhere in there does it say that it supports Windows XP.

So, going by what everyone is saying, is that even though the motherboard is in warranty (just like mine), Tyan doesn't have to support it since they don't say they anything about Windows XP or a higher than ACPI 1.0 spec.

You people are honestly telling me it would be just fine for Tyan not to support the S2462 because the manual doesn't mention XP?

Chuck

 

[wdb1966]

That would be correct using Tyan's logic...after all, the 760MP chipset is now obsolete & out of production...I'm looking at Gigabyte's 760MPX board instead of Tyan's...it comes with an extra feature called customer support!

 

[Pariah]

"So, going by what everyone is saying, is that even though the motherboard is in warranty (just like mine), Tyan doesn't have to support it since they don't say they anything about Windows XP or a higher than ACPI 1.0 spec."

Warranty has nothing to do with support wdb. Warranty only covers defects in workmanship. Lack of future compatability is not a defect. Your Thunder comparison is not valid because the board is still in production. Clearly Tyan is going to support a board that is still in production and being sold, unlike yours which probably hasn't been produced for 2 years. Tyan is not under any obligation to support Windows XP with the Thunder (not exactly sure what in XP requires special support....?), but it would certainly be in their best interest to support their flagship AMD board that is a current model.

 

[wdb1966]

<< Yes it may run the OSs that the manual states, however that does not make it ACPI 1.0 compliant...something that Tyan themselves said it was not...after the fact. That is where the warranty issue comes into play. >>



Do I not use correct English??? The board did not meet the ACPI 1.0 spec that it was supposed to when it was produced (windows 98se was not fully compliant either, thats why it worked)....uhhhh that IS defective worksmanship...BIOS coding or hardware doesn't matter. If its broke, its broke...plain & simple...that is not even debatable.

As far as XP goes, its just MS streamlining their ACPI code to meet the true spec...now the board makers need to follow suit if they support their products.

Tyan may have the right to decide not to support a product, even if it is still under warranty, but the consumer also has the right to take them to task for it & call in the warranty...which I may pursue, even if just to humor myself.

 

[Mikewarrior2]

Well, to throw mroe fuel at the fire:

Tyan does not have good support for either the Thunder K7 or Tiger MP mb's. Temp reading/fan reading/voltage reading is problematic (if it works) on the two boards. This problem comes from having 2 different temperature/voltage/rpm chips on the MB. Windows programs currently do not have the ability to read both.

Rather than release/work on a program for their own UNIQUE mb's, or even help those people who do make programs, Tyan simply tells the end user to look for one on the internet.

SEeing as how temperature monitoring and such is pretty darn important in a server enviroment, I don't understand why Tyan continues to overlook releasing a program for this.


Mike

 

[wdb1966]

Par for course...glad to know now instead of after buying one!

 

[Pariah]

"The board did not meet the ACPI 1.0 spec that it was supposed to when it was produced (windows 98se was not fully compliant either, thats why it worked)....uhhhh that IS defective worksmanship..."

That's not defective. You're speaking English, but you're still wrong. It did work with what was available at the time. ACPI always has and continues to have issues with all sorts of hardware. I don't think there is any SS7 board that works properly with ACPI. I had tons of ACPI headaches with slot A boards. A lot of the ACPI problems can be traced to other hardware besides the motherboard, including but no exclusively, LAN cards, CL sound cards and video capture cards. ACPI is not a required function in any way shape or form for a system to work.

 

[wdb1966]

I never said that it didn't work with Win98se...but rather that it did not meet the ACPI spec.

It doesn't matter what OS you want to use, it still was not ACPI compliant.

Its a moot point now anyway...my board is working fine now (no thanks to Tyan) and will likely never buy anything from them again.

 

[chucky2]

LOL!

I post that Tyan isn't supporting my Super-7 motherboard that is still in warranty, and people start saying "But its out of production." So is the Ford Contour, but Ford still honors the warranty on it.

Then Mikewarrior2 posts that Tyan flagship Socket-A motherboards (one which costs $500 - ouch!) also has problems. Tyan's answer (and I'm surprised that you got an answer - how long did they take to e-mail you back?) is "look for one on the internet".

No one finds this the lease bit disturbing?

Pariah- The board will work with ACPI enabled, well, sort of. But, you have to flash to the 1.06e BIOS to get it to do so. Go here and tell me what is the latest BIOS release you see?

So, if Tyan only provides that one, and you need the 1.06e to work, and Tyan knows this....Can someone tell me why they haven't as least posted this under their Beta section on the BIOS download page????

I mean, if they really care about their customers, then they could at least do this?

Why are people so willing to let companies provide sh*tty support and walk all over them? I'm willing to bet there's tons of examples just like this, but people just roll over and take it without making any noise.

Why?

The only one that benefits from that is the companies that are doing it.

We've already found out through this thread that Tyan can't be trusted to provide support for its products.

Is this the type of manufacturer of the motherboard you want running in your server? I'd think not.

Chuck