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It's official, BlackBoxVoting is going public with fraud claims

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I'm not interested in overturning the election, absent massive fraud, but I am interested in ensuring a fair and accurate vote count in the future. I am simply astonished that Libertarians and Conservatives wouldn't be the first to be screaming about incompetent government. 🙂 Isn't it amazing what a very small victory can do to one's powers of concentration? 🙂 🙂 j/k j/k j/k

-Robert
 
Wish granted: (Elizabeth Edwards)

Since I cannot start a thread (which I think is a good rule by the way), I have to hijack one -- at least briefly. I do want this thread to continue on, though, because the topic is so important. (Moderators can feel free to move this, of course.)

But I also had something I wanted to say to all of you. You know that I read ** and have for quite some time, long before any of you knew my name. I really appreciate the support you have given me on this latest hurdle and before. It means a lot to me and to John.

Now that I have more time, I will post some, too. But today I want to share something inspiring, part of a letter from Thomas Jefferson. This is from the new Bernstein biography of Jefferson. Jefferson sent the letter in 1798 after the passage of the Sedition Act:

"A little patience, and we shall see the reign of witches pass over, their spells dissolve, and the people, recovering their true sight, restore their government to its true principles. It is true that in the meantime we are suffering deeply in spirit, and incurring the horrors of a war and long oppressions of enormous public debt. If the game runs sometimes against us at home we must have patience till luck turns, and then we shall have an opportunity of winning back the principles we have lost, for this is a game where principles are at stake."
 
Originally posted by: Tiles2Tech
Originally posted by: jpeyton
This is good news. I had a gut feeling that this election would get a black eye from fraud, and I'm glad someone is doing something to uncover it.
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Keep in mind now that you've asked for it, the numbers could come back against the party you voted for.

:roll:
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Will there investigation also expose the democrats who gave people crack, money and other favors?
 
This still doesn't prove, or provide backup sources, to anything, MD. We need something concrete before we can jump on the bandwagon, else we look like fools. Know what I mean? :/ Like they need to officially take legal action with the state of Ohio, or wherever the disputes are. That is reportable, and concrete.
 
Originally posted by: GoPackGo
Originally posted by: Tiles2Tech
Originally posted by: jpeyton
This is good news. I had a gut feeling that this election would get a black eye from fraud, and I'm glad someone is doing something to uncover it.
Click to expand...

Keep in mind now that you've asked for it, the numbers could come back against the party you voted for.

:roll:
Click to expand...


Will there investigation also expose the democrats who gave people crack, money and other favors?
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Please provide links to news articles or documentation on this crack bribery. I assume there is more than one instance, since you said "democrats."
 
Originally posted by: phillyTIM
This still doesn't prove, or provide backup sources, to anything, MD. We need something concrete before we can jump on the bandwagon, else we look like fools. Know what I mean? :/ Like they need to officially take legal action with the state of Ohio, or wherever the disputes are. That is reportable, and concrete.
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I totally understand, Tim. Wait till Bev shows up on TV with the voting data then...
I know what you mean though. I'll feel like an idiot if she doesn't follow through and show up on TV like she said she would.
 
Originally posted by: MDesigner
Originally posted by: phillyTIM
This still doesn't prove, or provide backup sources, to anything, MD. We need something concrete before we can jump on the bandwagon, else we look like fools. Know what I mean? :/ Like they need to officially take legal action with the state of Ohio, or wherever the disputes are. That is reportable, and concrete.
Click to expand...

I totally understand, Tim. Wait till Bev shows up on TV with the voting data then...
I know what you mean though. I'll feel like an idiot if she doesn't follow through and show up on TV like she said she would.
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When is this supposed to happen?
 
This is truly excellent news. You know I will be watching for it.
One thing though: I think they should wait until Monday. One of the major tactics the Bush administration has used is that bad news is always held until Friday afternoon, after the stock market closes. It minimizes the effect on the market this way, and also, it is too late to make it the main story on the 6 o'clock news, so the press really only covers it at 10/11 that night, and forgets about it by the next week. GOOD news is always reported on a Monday, Tuesday, or Wednesday. This maximizes the amount of press it gets.

The media will give the story more attention if it is released on a Monday or Tuesday. Also, who knows what other drops they'll have to go with it by then.
 
Originally posted by: bamacre
Originally posted by: MDesigner
Originally posted by: phillyTIM
This still doesn't prove, or provide backup sources, to anything, MD. We need something concrete before we can jump on the bandwagon, else we look like fools. Know what I mean? :/ Like they need to officially take legal action with the state of Ohio, or wherever the disputes are. That is reportable, and concrete.
Click to expand...

I totally understand, Tim. Wait till Bev shows up on TV with the voting data then...
I know what you mean though. I'll feel like an idiot if she doesn't follow through and show up on TV like she said she would.
Click to expand...

When is this supposed to happen?
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There is no set date or time. It was a vague statement (the statement about appearing on TV). Just "shortly" was all.

I hope these people follow through and DO go public with whatever they've got, as long as it's solid.
 
Originally posted by: MDesigner
Originally posted by: TastesLikeChicken
Originally posted by: phillyTIM
This is great news to hear, but ... How can we believe all of this is serious?
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It's on the internet. It must be true.
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My sources are up-to-date and fully reliable. Don't believe me? Oh, shall I quote the message posted by Elizabeth Edwards herself, fully verified & confirmed to be authentic? Or perhaps you're not interested in crow for lunch.
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I'm not claiming these folks don't actually believe themselves to be serious. The problem is that they actually are claiming to be serious.

They begin with a false premise (The exit polls were correct, so the vote must have been a fraud), then proceed to prove a false premise.

This type of "proof" is so akin to those who claim creation science is is correct because they can disprove evolution, so it boggles my mind that those who proclaim themselves as the intelligent ones would even jump on this as factual.

I'll be more than happy to listen to what they have to say and look over whatever "proof" they produce, but I will remain skeptical when they start out with such a skewed perception of things in the first place.
 
Ahh..yes. Sorry TastesLikeChicken, didn't mean to come on so strong. Yes, I agree with you completely. I'm definitely more of a "wait and see" type. But I thought this was pretty exciting news..so I figured I'd share it with everyone else.
 
Poor Jefferson! He was the meekest of men, barely spoke above a whisper, and died a thousand deaths as his peers ripped apart his draft of The Declaration of Independence. 🙂 Nothing worse than having a committee edit your writing.... Fortunately, some of the best parts survived and some of the worst were cut. (The only major exception being the clause abolishing slavery, which S.C., Georgia, and I think N.Y.? objected to. If that issue had been nipped in the bud, perhaps we wouldn't have had the Civil War?)

But, yes, I wonder what Jefferson would think about his Republican form of government if he were alive today?

Regardless, few people realize how lucky we were to have had people like John Adams, Jefferson, Franklin, Lee, Dr. Benjamin Rush, etc. at such a critical juncture in our nation's history. Makes you wonder....

-Robert
 
With computer storage, etc. at a cheap abundance, I find it kind off odd that proper backups and more secure audit trails were not created - in addition to paper backups. This is just plain silly that it doesn't exist.

 
Honestly it wouldn't shock me if fraud did take place. You had to know things like this would be possible in this day and age. Though, I doubt that Bush would be in the know about something like this.
 
Originally posted by: Tiles2Tech
With computer storage, etc. at a cheap abundance, I find it kind off odd that proper backups and more secure audit trails were not created - in addition to paper backups. This is just plain silly that it doesn't exist.
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i agree with that 100%
 
Originally posted by: Xenon
Honestly it wouldn't shock me if fraud did take place. You had to know things like this would be possible in this day and age. Though, I doubt that Bush would be in the know about something like this.
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Well it does seem odd that the CEO of Diebold guaranteed Bush Florida and Ohio... /shrug
 
Originally posted by: Xenon
Honestly it wouldn't shock me if fraud did take place. You had to know things like this would be possible in this day and age. Though, I doubt that Bush would be in the know about something like this.
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Of course some fraud took place. It has taken place in every election this country has ever had. Any way to change it? Nope, not really.....just a matter of life. However is it widespread enough to cause an election to go one way or the other? I seriously doubt it.

 
Originally posted by: Darkhawk28
Originally posted by: Xenon
Honestly it wouldn't shock me if fraud did take place. You had to know things like this would be possible in this day and age. Though, I doubt that Bush would be in the know about something like this.
Click to expand...

Well it does seem odd that the CEO of Diebold guaranteed Bush Florida and Ohio... /shrug
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Just like Bush wasn't aware of the bad pre-war intelligence about Iraq? :roll:

It's quite simple. Bush wants a result, and the people closest to him provide that result by any means necessary. Bush doesn't want to know how they guarantee him the result because that would implicate him in fraud.
 
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