It is time sanders drops out.

[chess9]

Quite the contrary really:
https://www.washingtonpost.com/news...-candidate-was-the-most-effective-legislator/

You mean comparing percent of sponsored bills passed between Clinton and Sanders is drastically different? You must not be reading the same graph as me. The graphs look like they are virtually identical. Anyway, Bernie was not even a Democrat, much to his credit.

 

[fskimospy]

Groupthink is not a conspiracy. (I see you misinterpret everything.) However, Cheney worked the CIA pretty hard during the reporting phase, so I would suggest that the spooks knew in advance what result they had to reach. Which probably explains why the NIE was clearly an attempt to mislead Congress and was such a bone-headed result. That NIE does not suggest "intelligence", but the exact opposite. And what to make of the vast difference between the Summary and the actual full NIE? Like many, I'm not so sure the spooks aren't subject to strong political pressures.

So again you are simultaneously arguing incompetence (groupthink) and conspiracy (they knew the conclusion they had to reach). This is illogical.

Secondly, you claim that the key findings are different than the 'full NIE'. Since you have never seen this document you can't say that. Additionally, there is absolutely nothing controversial about having caveats about your key findings. This is entirely normal, in fact. Intelligence is a very muddy and messy business. (If you know something for certain you don't need an intelligence analysis of it)

Since you appear to think this NIE differs substantially from other NIEs or other intelligence products can you link to these?

This all comes back to what you said originally, that because Sanders went and read the NIE he learned that the war couldn't be supported by the intelligence available. This is total bullshit. There is nothing I have ever seen or heard of from that report that would indicate that. I've even been at a dinner with one of the authors of it where he discussed the process and what went wrong. You are just pulling things out of your ass or repeating nonsense you heard somewhere else.

Hillary wasn't in the Senate long enough to establish any significant voting record, and her legislative accomplishments aren't much different than Sanders'.
If you don't value honesty and trustworthiness in a presidential candidate then Hillary is your man, er, woman.

Ah so another arbitrary statement. She was in the senate for six years and voted on hundreds of things. You claimed she wasn't progressive, well the best objective measure of congressional ideology we have disagrees.

Since presumably you value facts over emotional arguments, how does this new information change your mind?

 

[ivwshane]

You mean comparing percent of sponsored bills passed between Clinton and Sanders is drastically different? You must not be reading the same graph as me. The graphs look like they are virtually identical. Anyway, Bernie was not even a Democrat, much to his credit.

Let me know when you are done moving the goal posts.

 

[mysticjbyrd]

Quite the contrary really:
https://www.washingtonpost.com/news...-candidate-was-the-most-effective-legislator/

Sanders and Kasich have by far the best record on the first graph.... lol

How are you conflating bills voted on with legislative effectiveness, anyways?

 

[chess9]

Sanders and Kasich have by far the best record on the first graph.... lol

How are you conflating bills voted on with legislative effectiveness, anyways?

Yup.

 

[ivwshane]

Sanders and Kasich have by far the best record on the first graph.... lol

How are you conflating bills voted on with legislative effectiveness, anyways?

You have a funny way of looking at charts! Despite clinton having been in congress for a lesser amount of time compared to sanders she has around just as many accomplishments and has had a bigger impact in terms of sponsorships and passing the legislation in the senate.

 

[blankslate]

At this point he should gracefully throw in the towel and let Clinton focus on the general election. He is not going to win, at least he could drop out and step aside.

At what point did Hillary drop out in 2008? I don't think it was this early... also if he did drop out there would be nothing for the media to talk about as far as the democratic primaries are concerned and they would give even more free media time to Trump.

so be careful what you wish for there.


____________

 

[Lash444]

You have a funny way of looking at charts! Despite clinton having been in congress for a lesser amount of time compared to sanders she has around just as many accomplishments and has had a bigger impact in terms of sponsorships and passing the legislation in the senate.

If I fed you shit sandwiches, would you still thank me for being your Subway sandwich artist?

 

[ivwshane]

If I fed you shit sandwiches, would you still thank me for being your Subway sandwich artist?

That's a nice sound bite but I prefer something a little more factual. Go ahead and show me a comparison of the legislation each sponsored or co sponsored. Let's see whose been serving up a real shit sandwich.

 

[soundforbjt]

At what point did Hillary drop out in 2008? I don't think it was this early... also if he did drop out there would be nothing for the media to talk about as far as the democratic primaries are concerned and they would give even more free media time to Trump.

so be careful what you wish for there.


____________

That IS what he is hoping for...he's a Trump supporter.

 

[mysticjbyrd]

You have a funny way of looking at charts! Despite clinton having been in congress for a lesser amount of time compared to sanders she has around just as many accomplishments and has had a bigger impact in terms of sponsorships and passing the legislation in the senate.

Those aren't 'accomplishments'... They are votes! A lot of which weren't in favor of the people, like the iraq war for example! What an amazing accomplishment!!

 

[bshole]

You have a funny way of looking at charts! Despite clinton having been in congress for a lesser amount of time compared to sanders she has around just as many accomplishments and has had a bigger impact in terms of sponsorships and passing the legislation in the senate.

Bernie actually fought the little guy, Hillary NEVER did. Her supporting corporate legislation is hardly an accomplishment worth bragging about, in fact many people would consider it a stain.

 

[Sheik Yerbouti]

Bernie actually fought the little guy, Hillary NEVER did. Her supporting corporate legislation is hardly an accomplishment worth bragging about, in fact many people would consider it a stain.

I think you mean, Bernie fought for the little guy, but correct me if I am wrong and you meant it as written.

 

[Exophase]

I think you mean, Bernie fought for the little guy, but correct me if I am wrong and you meant it as written.

Hey that's how you make the little guy stronger.

 

[Hugo Drax]

I think now is a good time for him to drop out.

 

[WhipperSnapper]

What would happen if he told Hillary and the corrupt DNC to go fuck themselves and ran as an independent third party candidate?

 

[Painman]

What would happen if he told Hillary and the corrupt DNC to go fuck themselves and ran as an independent third party candidate?

Either he would fizzle out in a blaze of ingnominy and doom progressives to marginal status for a generation while Clinton wins, or become Ralph Nader 2.0 and doom progressives to marginal status for a generation while Trump wins, and liberals do their usual, recriminating, circular firing squad thing.

 

[Oyeve]

Clinton vs Trump = Third Party Vote

This.

 

[sportage]

The third party run is actually a done deal, of sorts.
Most all of Sanders supporters are now saying they will simply write-in Sanders name.
I take them seriously.
It would be a first to see the percentage a write-in candidate could get.
And considering this is Sanders with his huge following, that write-in vote could make a big difference for the democrats.

As this idea progresses for a write-in vote, I could see Sanders keeping out of it. More less just telling his supporters "DO WHAT YOU THINK BEST".
No tone of harmony, no unifying of party, no rally around Hillary, Bernie would just stand aside and let the chips fall where they may.
And his followers will take the hint from Sanders silence to write-in a name, just as long as that name is not Hillary Clinton.

I do not see Sanders coming together with the Hillary camp at any point.
He will make a mess of the convention.
Bernie is setting himself up as a spoiler. And he and his supporters could easily lose it for the democrats, giving the nation a president Donald Trump. And if that is what ends up happening, Bernie will be damned to hell by the democratic establishment. Blamed for enabling a Trump presidency, and the eventual loss of the US Supreme court.
And despite his preaching of equality for the middle class, Bernie and his message will forever be lost never to be seen again.

Bernie will forever be shunned by his fellow democrats in congress and by the full democratic establishment. Sanders will be solely responsible for the most hard right wing presidency, house, senate and US supreme court which will continue for years and years to come.
And the very revolution Sanders preaches about, to be lost forever.

Frankly, I'm surprised how much of a sore loser Bernie Sanders has become. And how spoiled his supporters have become and the extent they are willing to go to just to screw it up for the democrats come November.
Bernie is actually more like Donald Trump than not.
.

 

[glenn1]

The third party run is actually a done deal, of sorts.
Most all of Sanders supporters are now saying they will simply write-in Sanders name.
I take them seriously.
It would be a first to see the percentage a write-in candidate could get.
And considering this is Sanders with his huge following, that write-in vote could make a big difference for the democrats.

As this idea progresses for a write-in vote, I could see Sanders keeping out of it. More less just telling his supporters "DO WHAT YOU THINK BEST".
No tone of harmony, no unifying of party, no rally around Hillary, Bernie would just stand aside and let the chips fall where they may.
And his followers will take the hint from Sanders silence to write-in a name, just as long as that name is not Hillary Clinton.

I do not see Sanders coming together with the Hillary camp at any point.
He will make a mess of the convention.
Bernie is setting himself up as a spoiler. And he and his supporters could easily lose it for the democrats, giving the nation a president Donald Trump. And if that is what ends up happening, Bernie will be damned to hell by the democratic establishment. Blamed for enabling a Trump presidency, and the eventual loss of the US Supreme court.
And despite his preaching of equality for the middle class, Bernie and his message will forever be lost never to be seen again.

Bernie will forever be shunned by his fellow democrats in congress and by the full democratic establishment. Sanders will be solely responsible for the most hard right wing presidency, house, senate and US supreme court which will continue for years and years to come.
And the very revolution Sanders preaches about, to be lost forever.

Frankly, I'm surprised how much of a sore loser Bernie Sanders has become. And how spoiled his supporters have become and the extent they are willing to go to just to screw it up for the democrats come November.
Bernie is actually more like Donald Trump than not.
.

Maybe he thinks Trump is more honestly progressive and would make a better President than Hillary. I'd never vote for either one of them but if he did think that I'd be inclined to agree even though Eskimospy will wave around her DW-Nominate score like that means jack-shit.

"Oh but she was tricked into supporting the Iraq invasion. And she didn't *REALLY* mean to destabilize Libya and Syria and give rise to ISIS. And calling black kids 'super predators' back in the day was just a rhetorical flourish. The only thing that's important is that she get to nominate SCOTUS justices!"

 

[DeathReborn]

Considering Sanders is really an independent sticking in the fight after it's realistically over is just sticking it to the "establishment". I still think he needs to be kicked to the kerb though, if he did drop out he'd probably have a shot; albeit a slim one, at getting onto the ticket.

 

[fskimospy]

Maybe he thinks Trump is more honestly progressive and would make a better President than Hillary. I'd never vote for either one of them but if he did think that I'd be inclined to agree even though Eskimospy will wave around her DW-Nominate score like that means jack-shit.

"Oh but she was tricked into supporting the Iraq invasion. And she didn't *REALLY* mean to destabilize Libya and Syria and give rise to ISIS. And calling black kids 'super predators' back in the day was just a rhetorical flourish. The only thing that's important is that she get to nominate SCOTUS justices!"

Trump supported Iraq and Libya too, so why would he be better? Trump's statements about minorities aren't decades old, they are happening today. Why would that be better either?

DW-NOMINATE isn't the end all be all of ways to measure ideology but it is by far the best tool we have. It's certainly better and more objective than what people normally do, which is make a decision and then seek to rationalize it later.

 

[Fanatical Meat]

Obama is having a meeting with Sanders this week. Obama is pretty good with this stuff. I'm going to bet Bernie doesn't give up but substantially scales back his plans.

 

[sm625]

http://www.gregpalast.com/californi...t-nowspecial-bulletin-greg-palast/#more-12053

And there's the rub. In some counties like Los Angeles, it's not easy for an NPP to claim their right vote in the Democratic primary – and in other counties, nearly impossible.

Example: In Santa Rosa, Sonoma County, if you don’t say the magic words, “I want a Democratic crossover ballot,” you are automatically given a ballot without the presidential race. And ready for this, if an NPP voter asks the poll worker, “How do I get to vote in the Democratic party primary, they are instructed to say that, “NPP voters can’t get Democratic ballots.” They are ordered not to breathe a word that the voter can get a “crossover” ballot that includes the presidential race.

I’m not kidding. This is from the official Election Officer Training Manual page 49:

"A No Party Preference voter will need to request a crossover ballot from the Roster Index Officer. (Do not offer them a crossover ballot if they do not ask)."

 

[Painman]

Maybe he thinks Trump is more honestly progressive and would make a better President than Hillary.

I think, right now, Donald Trump is maybe (just maybe) realizing right now what a complete fucking piker he really is vs. the Clintons.