"It is a problem for America, but it is not necessarily a problem for business."

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Oct 30, 2004
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More money in India means they will have an increasing lifestyle and have a higher demand for goods and services. Global economy doesn't just mean making stuff in other countries it also means selling stuff there.

Based on our trade deficit, we are importing far more goods and services from certain countries than we are exporting to them. In other words, if we didn't trade with certain countries at all we could infuse a couple hundred billion dollars a year back into our nation's economy.

What exactly would the Indians purchase from us? What can we do that they cannot produce or do for themselves less expensively?
 

BoberFett

Lifer
Oct 9, 1999
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Of course, but the question is whether they are doing it by increasing the total amount of wealth produced or instead by producing wealth for the American market that Americans used to produce themselves. Ideally, people in other countries would produce goods and services for their own consumption, increasing the amount of wealth produced in the world.

Who does an automobile produced in Kentucky and sold in New York benefit?

What about something produced in Buffalo and sold in New York City?

What about something produced in Queens and sold in Manhattan?

How is made in China and sold to the US any different? Should anybody purchase anything that they didn't create with their own hands?
 
Oct 30, 2004
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Who does an automobile produced in Kentucky and sold in New York benefit?

What about something produced in Buffalo and sold in New York City?

What about something produced in Queens and sold in Manhattan?

How is made in China and sold to the US any different? Should anybody purchase anything that they didn't create with their own hands?

The difference is that the well-being of someone in Kentucky is interconnected to your own well-being. Since the people in Kentucky would be earning American market wages, they could afford to purchase the goods/services that you produce in New York. They would also be contributing to the federal government's tax revenue.

In contrast if people in Kentucky were unemployed because the goods you are consuming are made in China, not only will those Kentuckians not be paying federal income taxes, they'll be consuming them (effectively increasing your taxes, not lowering them).
 

Throckmorton

Lifer
Aug 23, 2007
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That is exactly right, at least for the next 20-30 years IF and only if we develop a sound energy plan today and we follow through with it. That will also require significant investment from the government (at least a trillion dollars, not billions). The private sector isn't going to carry us on this one bud.

If you have a better idea I am all ears but since I make a living in renewable energy and used to drill for oil I have a pretty good picture of our energy needs and capabilities. So please do tell, what is your grand plan to get us off of "suck moar oil out of the aerth!!!" regardless of who is doing the "sucking"? One stipulation is your plan can't nuke the economy or put our nation at a further economic disadvantage. Whatcha got?

The solution isn't "drill baby drill". It's "hoard baby hoard".
 

JSt0rm

Lifer
Sep 5, 2000
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Hold on, I'm going to have to run your post through the Retard to English translator before I can respond...

Really? thats all you got? You have gotten more bitter lately. Is everything alright in your personal life?

Everyone Lets give big hugs to boberfett. Hes going through some tough times.

Back on topic...

Are your knock off nike shoes made in china going to bring jobs back here? And I'd like you to address the fact that you can buy items made in the usa as a choice.
 

BoberFett

Lifer
Oct 9, 1999
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Really? thats all you got? You have gotten more bitter lately. Is everything alright in your personal life?

Everyone Lets give big hugs to boberfett. Hes going through some tough times.

Back on topic...

Are your knock off nike shoes made in china going to bring jobs back here? And I'd like you to address the fact that you can buy items made in the usa as a choice.

You seem to pay an awful lot of attention to my state of being for someone who "doesn't think about" me. No hugs though, I don't want to catch any of your diseases.

And no, Nike shoes produced in China wouldn't create jobs here. However they would leave the middle class with $45 more than they had if they had bought Nike shoes from some asshole in a New York penthouse.

Make up your mind. Is the problem transfer of wealth to China or transfer of wealth to the top 0.1%. You crazy lefties can't even keep your complaints straight.
 

JSt0rm

Lifer
Sep 5, 2000
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You seem to pay an awful lot of attention to my state of being for someone who "doesn't think about" me. No hugs though, I don't want to catch any of your diseases.

I'm talking with you now so I am concerned.

And no, Nike shoes produced in China wouldn't create jobs here. However they would leave the middle class with $45 more than they had if they had bought Nike shoes from some asshole in a New York penthouse.

Make up your mind. Is the problem transfer of wealth to China or transfer of wealth to the top 0.1%. You crazy lefties can't even keep your complaints straight.

The choice isnt destroy all ip so that the world can race to the bottom the fastest. lol. Thats your argument for real?
 

BoberFett

Lifer
Oct 9, 1999
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How is ignoring trademark a race to the bottom? That's what we're doing already, if you hadn't noticed.

Oh, you believe in trickledown do you? Someone should buy a pair of Nikes send $5 to China, $45 to the wealthy, and hope some of it trickles back down into his minimum wage paycheck?

Yes, you are a fool. You don't even understand the concepts being discussed, clearly.
 

JSt0rm

Lifer
Sep 5, 2000
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How is ignoring trademark a race to the bottom? That's what we're doing already, if you hadn't noticed.

Oh, you believe in trickledown do you? Someone should buy a pair of Nikes send $5 to China, $45 to the wealthy, and hope some of it trickles back down into his minimum wage paycheck?

Yes, you are a fool. You don't even understand the concepts being discussed, clearly.

So who would bother creating anything if there ip wasn't protected and any 3rd world country could copy it so boberfett can have shit for pennies on the dollar? Nobody thats who.

Fucking people dont want to pay for anything. No wonder the film industry is in the crapper.
 

blackangst1

Lifer
Feb 23, 2005
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Maybe I missed it (I read the article twice) but I dont see this as an article about outsourcing. The closest I could find was this:

But he wasn’t nearly as cheery about the state of his nation. Asked by moderator David Bradley, chairman of Atlantic Media and one of the festival’s hosts, how many of his employees would be in America if he were starting with a blank slate, Splinter said just 20 per cent. “90 per cent of our sales will be outside the U.S.,” he said. “The pull is to be close to our customers. The challenge is how to get jobs in the U.S.”

OK, so 90 percent of SALES would be outside the US. So...if 10% of sales are IN the US, why would a global company have 100% of its production and operations IN the US? America, fuck yeah?
 

BoberFett

Lifer
Oct 9, 1999
37,562
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So who would bother creating anything if there ip wasn't protected and any 3rd world country could copy it so boberfett can have shit for pennies on the dollar? Nobody thats who.

Fucking people dont want to pay for anything. No wonder the film industry is in the crapper.

LOL, you sure got defensive in a hurry. Let me guess, you work in an IP related field?

The transfer of wealth in this country is heavily dependent on IP. Fact.
 

JSt0rm

Lifer
Sep 5, 2000
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LOL, you sure got defensive in a hurry. Let me guess, you work in an IP related field?

Yeah I feel so threatened that your hair brain idea is going to gain traction o_O

The transfer of wealth in this country is heavily dependent on IP. Fact.

So what are you mad about? The fact that you have no original thought? or that others profit from THEIR original thought?
 

BoberFett

Lifer
Oct 9, 1999
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Yeah I feel so threatened that your hair brain idea is going to gain traction o_O

So in other words, I was right.


So what are you mad about? The fact that you have no original thought? or that others profit from THEIR original thought?

I'm not mad, simply stating facts. You and the rest of the loony left are droning on and on about the death of the middle class so I find it more amusing than anything that you're a part of killing it. Your defensiveness is just a natural reaction to your cognitive dissonance.
 

Fern

Elite Member
Sep 30, 2003
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-snip-

OK, so 90 percent of SALES would be outside the US. So...if 10% of sales are IN the US, why would a global company have 100% of its production and operations IN the US? America, fuck yeah?

Umm, yeah.

We would then an 'exporting' nation instead of an 'importing' nation; as in times past.

And I'm guessing countries like China etc, do have 100% of the production in their country but maybe only 5% of the sales.

Fern
 

JSt0rm

Lifer
Sep 5, 2000
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So in other words, I was right.




I'm not mad, simply stating facts. You and the rest of the loony left are droning on and on about the death of the middle class so I find it more amusing than anything that you're a part of killing it. Your defensiveness is just a natural reaction to your cognitive dissonance.

So where does ingenuity come from? Why would intel make cpu's if a chinese company could reverse engineer them and sell you the same thing for $10? Whats the incentive to do better? Whats the incentive to be great?
 

JSt0rm

Lifer
Sep 5, 2000
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oh and i create content. Content that you 0's download and copy and redistribute without paying a cent. Somehow because you have a internet connection and know how a torrent works or know how to get onto irc you somehow are justified to download whatever you want.
 

BoberFett

Lifer
Oct 9, 1999
37,562
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So where does ingenuity come from? Why would intel make cpu's if a chinese company could reverse engineer them and sell you the same thing for $10? Whats the incentive to do better? Whats the incentive to be great?

Don't get me wrong, IP law is incredibly important and creators should be paid handsomely for the fantastic inventions, books, songs, and other things they bring to the world. But as with many things, it has been distorted from a way to protect inventors and creators into just another form of corporate welfare.

Going back to the Nike swoosh and trademark. Let's look at the purpose behind trademark. Yes, it's Wikipedia, but for these purposes it will suffice.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trademark

A trademark or trade mark is a distinctive sign or indicator used by an individual, business organization, or other legal entity to identify that the products or services to consumers with which the trademark appears originate from a unique source, and to distinguish its products or services from those of other entities.

When Nike shoes were manfactured in the US, the Nike trademark meant you were purchasing a pair of shoes produced by the Nike company in an American factory. The $50 you paid for those shoes was based on the price it cost to produce them, various costs of doing business, supply chain, etc., and a portion of it was profit. Absolutely nothing wrong there, right? At this point, trademark will protect both Nike and the consumer from somebody passing off a cheaply made shoe as a Nike.

Now Nike realizes that Americans are cocky, and expect things like health care, decent pay, and safe working conditions. They look at China, and none of those things apply. Those shoes which used to cost $20 to make can be made for $1 in China. Seems like a good idea, right? Especially because we don't need to change the price of the shoes. People already expect to pay $50 for Nike shoes. The company just makes $19 more per pair than they used to and the CEO gets a big bonus. Nobody else can make a Nike because of trademark, so there's no competition when it comes to selling $50 Nike shoes. Or is there? That same factory that makes Nike shoes can keep the factory going 24/7, and we know that factories in China do this. It can pump out more $50 Nike shoes than the market can bear. But those shoes are counterfeit. Because of trademark law it doesn't matter that it is the exact same shoe from the exact same place. If those shoes were shipped to the US and somebody attempted to sell them for $31 (because there's no need to pay the added $19 Nike corporate markup) Nike would shut them down. At this point, trademark isn't protecting the consumer from buying a cheaply made knockoff, because the consumer is getting the exact same product. What trademark is actually protecting is that $19 of extra profit per pair of shoes that goes directly to the wealthy owners of Nike.

Obviously it's more complicated than that, but there's no denying that IP laws in this country are a part of the massive transfer of wealth to the top 0.1%.
 

BoberFett

Lifer
Oct 9, 1999
37,562
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oh and i create content. Content that you 0's download and copy and redistribute without paying a cent. Somehow because you have a internet connection and know how a torrent works or know how to get onto irc you somehow are justified to download whatever you want.

Wow, I hit a sore spot.

Don't you frequently brag about how much money you make? Doesn't that make you part of the problem? If we're going to attack the wealthy, then let's make sure we have the right target. Isn't that you?
 

JSt0rm

Lifer
Sep 5, 2000
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as I said before and gave examples of you want you can purchase shoes and boots made in America if you choose.

Ok so now we are in agreement that ip is important. Thats all I was arguing.


I dont brag about money. In fact I don't really ever talk about money. And how the hell am I part of the problem? I belong to one of the last true industries in this country - entertainment. I create a tangible product in the usa that is sold to other americans for their consumption and enjoyment. I would say that i am part of the solution.