"It is a problem for America, but it is not necessarily a problem for business."

[Atreus21]

IMO, "outsourcing" is just another term for globalization.

Politicians love globalization, yet decry "outsourcing". It's a farce.

Think globalization is just selling your products abroad for profit to spend back here? Well, 'services' are a product too, and that's what others are selling to us - i.e., outsourcing of jobs.

'Services' are what the average American has to offer, and globalization devalues that by making us compete to sell our services with others in poorer countries.

IMO, the larger view of globalization is that it's a system to 'average' the world. Poorer countries will get richer, richer countries will get poorer. Given that we are/were on the richer scale you can guess my opinion of where that will put us.

Solution? Yeah, the world is engaged in economic war with one another. We need smarter trade agreements that benefit us. That's not 'PC' ("we're raping poor countries" etc) , but we've got to find a way to maintain (or grow) our wealth and still help poorer countries improve. But not to our detriment as is happening now.

Somewhere in here resources plays a big role, and we're not managing those very well. I don't mean CO2 etc, I mean we've depleted much of ours' such as lumber and must purchase that from other countries. If you can't manage to be self-sustaining, somebody else has you by the short-hairs.

Fern

Excellent post.

 

[Amused]

Invest in education, YES, its very necessary. But I have one question for the dimwit numnut, you will get workers anywhere, true, very true, but where in the name of emm effin god will you get emm effin customers you moron, good luck trying to expand you business to China, India and Korea, Idiot.

Let's see, first we mandated Auto insurance, so he'll have customers no matter what.

And now we've mandated health insurance.

WTF would he care about your questions? He's getting his customers because he only has to MARKET to them, not employ them.

 

[PingSpike]

Less work in the US means less money to spend on the products these companies make. Isn't it in their best interest to keep their customer base working?

It's in their best interest for some one else to keep their customer base working, while they employ the cheapest labor possible. Each individual business can...must?...WILL act rationally to increase its individual performance, even if that is to the detriment of all in the end.

*sigh* I should probably read the whole thread before posting, tragedy of the commons already mentioned and all

 

[DesiPower]

Let's see, first we mandated Auto insurance, so he'll have customers no matter what.

And now we've mandated health insurance.

WTF would he care about your questions? He's getting his customers because he only has to MARKET to them, not employ them.

noone cares about Obamacare, if they dont want it they wont get it"." For car insurance, more and more ppl are downgrading to just liability or dropping out all together, many ppl i know have switched to local elcheapo insurance companies...

 

[busydude]

But I have one question for the dimwit numnut, you will get workers anywhere, true, very true, but where in the name of emm effin god will you get emm effin customers you moron, good luck trying to expand you business to China, India and Korea, Idiot.

First, US sets up up manufacturing in China to reduce costs, which in turn helped their economy and raised the standard of living(Increasing middle class).

China overtook US as the biggest consumers of cars last year(13.6 mil vs 10.4mil sold in US).

One of the major reasons Buick did not share the fate of Pontiac and Saturn was that Buick has a huge market in China where their cars sell like hot cakes. There are a lot of customers outside of the US and the companies know that.

 

[hal2kilo]

Less work in the US means less money to spend on the products these companies make. Isn't it in their best interest to keep their customer base working?

No, we've been told over and over again that all we want is cheap stuff to buy.

 

[Fern]

Less work in the US means less money to spend on the products these companies make. Isn't it in their best interest to keep their customer base working?

I had another thought on this...

Why would large global companies care where their workers are employed?

Foreign workers need jobs too so these big companies can sell overseas to them.

(Some) Companies have become so large and globalized they are effectively immune from localized problems. No jobs in the US (so no consumers)? No problem, sell to a different country.

Fern

 

[Red Dawn]

I had another thought on this...

Why would large global companies care where their workers are employed?

Foreign workers need jobs too so these big companies can sell overseas to them.

(Some) Companies have become so large and globalized they are effectively immune from localized problems. No jobs in the US (so no consumers)? No problem, sell to a different country.

Fern

So NIKE is going to be able to sell their overpriced shoes to the factory workers getting pennies a day to make them?

 

[Fern]

So NIKE is going to be able to sell their overpriced shoes to the factory workers getting pennies a day to make them?

How do unemployed people and their kids wear these very expensive shoes?

If you suspect Nike will catch on the Chinese, better buy some stock.

Fern

 

[Red Dawn]

How do unemployed people and their kids wear these very expensive shoes?

If you suspect Nike will catch on the Chinese, better buy some stock.

Fern

Fat chance, the Chinese buy Knockoffs and the Americans would too if allowed. I have a pair of knockoff Air Force Ones that cost me $25 and included in that price is the cost to ship them over here, imagine how cheap they are in China (and no, I can't tell the difference between them and the real ones)

 

[her209]

There are a lot of customers outside of the US and the companies know that.

How much can companies really sell its product for if its paying its workers peanuts? Especially with the foreign governments doing nothing to stem counterfeiters.

EDIT: Gah! Too late, Red already addressed it.

 

[zephyrprime]

The responsibilities of the company is to earn money/value for the people that own the company.

Just like your responsibility is to earn a wage to support your family.
You can choose how you wish to obtain that wage; honest work, pan handling, theft, fraud, drugs, etc.
Some methods have a greater ROE of your time than others - it is up to you to choose, no one else.

If the people that own the company feel that they get a better ROE using offshore then they should.
ROE can be subjective - that is up to the owners to decide not the observers

Eh, yeah sure but by that logic, shouldn't countries act in their own interest even when those interest may collide to business's interest to maximize the economic value that their citizens can garner? It's funny to me that often times people cite rational self interest as a legitimate motivation for corporations to act upon but then expect government to stand aside and not act in the rational self interests of its stakeholders. That's a double standard.

 

[BoberFett]

Fat chance, the Chinese buy Knockoffs and the Americans would too if allowed. I have a pair of knockoff Air Force Ones that cost me $25 and included in that price is the cost to ship them over here, imagine how cheap they are in China (and no, I can't tell the difference between them and the real ones)

Ah, so part of the problem is IP law. Or in other words, corporate welfare.

Trademark protection on the name Nike was sold to us on the basis that without, we as consumers would get duped into purchasing the inferior knockoff. Considering the Nikee was probably made by the exact same Chinese employee, on the exact same line, in the exact same factory as the Nike, then how have Americans benefited from paying 5 times as much for the exact same product?

IP is partly to blame for the raping of the American consumer, but even as we speak the Obama administration is working overtime to bring us the ACTA treaty, to ensure that the raping continues unabated.

 

[JSt0rm]

Ah, so part of the problem is IP law. Or in other words, corporate welfare.

Trademark protection on the name Nike was sold to us on the basis that without, we as consumers would get duped into purchasing the inferior knockoff. Considering the Nikee was probably made by the exact same Chinese employee, on the exact same line, in the exact same factory as the Nike, then how have Americans benefited from paying 5 times as much for the exact same product?

IP is partly to blame for the raping of the American consumer, but even as we speak the Obama administration is working overtime to bring us the ACTA treaty, to ensure that the raping continues unabated.

wtf are you on about? Nike whoosh is a copyright. You are advocating a chinese company be allowed to put that swish on any shoe they want? Talk about a race to the bottom.

 

[Trianon]

American corporations may be doing well as they sell 50% of their goods overseas (and make 80% of them overseas) so the United States in itself plays a smaller and smaller role in their overall planning. As long as overseas markets grow and labor costs keep going down, Big Business can shake off a little slowing demand from the hometown consumers.

No company is more American than Harley-Davidson and HOG is a perfect example of the death of the American worker as the company reported $71M in profits, TRIPLE what they made last year - on LESS SALES. That’s right, Harley laid off 2,000 Americans last year, 20% of their US work force, and will dump another 1,500 this year. Harley is transitioning from "Made in America" to "Assembled in America" and we’re lucky the remaining 5,000 employees are still allowed to do that!

“Because of high unemployment, management is using its leverage to get more hours out of workers,” said Robert C. Pozen, a senior lecturer at Harvard Business School and the former president of Fidelity Investments. “What’s worrisome is that American business has gotten used to being a lot leaner, and it could take a while before they start hiring again.”

 

[BoberFett]

wtf are you on about? Nike whoosh is a copyright. You are advocating a chinese company be allowed to put that swish on any shoe they want? Talk about a race to the bottom.

Someone help me with this fishing pole, I've got a huge fucking idiot on the end of the line!

1) You're a fucking buffoon who doesn't know the difference between a trademark and a copyright.

2) If some poor schmuck in China makes two identical pairs of shoes, one which sells there for $5 and the other sells for $50 in the US, who is profiting from the difference? It sure ain't the American consumer. The CEO and shareholders who outsourced that job are raking in the cash based on IP law.

 

[JSt0rm]

2) If some poor schmuck in China makes two identical pairs of shoes, one which sells there for $5 and the other sells for $50 in the US, who is profiting from the difference? It sure ain't the American consumer. The CEO and shareholders who outsourced that job are raking in the cash based on IP law.

lol. You hurt my feelings so bad. :hmm:

Anyways. Why should the factory take nike's show design and be able to sell it here for cheaper then nike sells it?

 

[BoberFett]

lol. You hurt my feelings so bad. :hmm:

Anyways. Why should the factory take nike's show design and be able to sell it here for cheaper then nike sells it?

Why shouldn't they? What value do the wealthy capital class add to the shoe? Isn't that what this is all about? That we're transferring wealth from the bottom to the top? And isn't that what the majority of the price of a Nike shoe does?

I don't like you, but I used to think you were at least somewhat intelligent. This is just making you look like a fool.

 

[JSt0rm]

Why shouldn't they? What value do the wealthy capital class add to the shoe? Isn't that what this is all about? That we're transferring wealth from the bottom to the top? And isn't that what the majority of the price of a Nike shoe does?

So then dont buy the nike shoe.

http://www.schnees.com/category/white-s-boots <--made in the usa

I wear selvedge denim and the people who make them earn a decent living. The zippers are solid copper and made in kentucky. They cost in excess of $400 a pair.

I don't like you, but I used to think you were at least somewhat intelligent. This is just making you look like a fool.

I don't ever really think about you. I find your anger comical though. ()

 

[Kappo]

Less work in the US means less money to spend on the products these companies make. Isn't it in their best interest to keep their customer base working?

In a non-service industry (like a B&M retail) that matters. When you are providing a service like insurance or loans or tech support, it doesn't matter so much with the advent of the internet. B2B even doesn't suffer that much because it's mostly logistics and getting one thing from point A to point B. Where those points are really don't matter too terribly much.

Businesses will go where the money/opportunity is regardless. When that isn't the US, those big businesses will go elsewhere.

The reality is that someone will fill the void in a free-market economy if there is a profit to be made unless you make it impossible to be profitable (what our previous - and much more so - current administration are working on).

Outsourcing is not always about the immediate cost. It also factors in turnover and dedication (soft value). We have about 80 developers outsourced for about 3 years now and 2 out of those have left for other jobs or whatever. Internally, we have 25 or so and only about 5 have been here for that time.

 

[JSt0rm]

So I'm confused. The market supports not buying from your nikey overlords through the supply of other items. Yet you want Nike items at 95&#37; off? I dont get it.

 

[WhipperSnapper]

Less work in the US means less money to spend on the products these companies make. Isn't it in their best interest to keep their customer base working?

It's in the interest of the wealthy to keep the populace working while skimming off a large profit. So, if the populace ends up impoverished and willing to work for very low wages, they can essentially work as slaves for the rich. Instead of having workers produce goods and services for consumption by the lower classes, the rich will consume them instead.

It isn't businessmen such as Tom Wilson who are to blame. After all, he's just doing what's best for his business and he's acting legally. Rather, it's our politicians who determine what is and isn't legal who are to blame.

 

[WhipperSnapper]

Invest in education, YES, its very necessary. But I have one question for the dimwit numnut, you will get workers anywhere, true, very true, but where in the name of emm effin god will you get emm effin customers you moron, good luck trying to expand you business to China, India and Korea, Idiot.

Actually, we probably need to reduce the amount of money we're spending on higher education because we already have a large oversupply of people with college degrees, including people with advanced degrees such as PhD. scientists. In essence, by producing far more college graduates than our nation needs we are wasting huge amounts of money.

We'd be better off sending fewer people to college and instead using that same money and human effort to focus on developing green energy, infrastructure, and affordable housing.

 

[BoberFett]

So I'm confused. The market supports not buying from your nikey overlords through the supply of other items. Yet you want Nike items at 95% off? I dont get it.

Hold on, I'm going to have to run your post through the Retard to English translator before I can respond...

 

[WhipperSnapper]

The rest of the world has the right to improve their standard of living...

Of course, but the question is whether they are doing it by increasing the total amount of wealth produced or instead by producing wealth for the American market that Americans used to produce themselves. Ideally, people in other countries would produce goods and services for their own consumption, increasing the amount of wealth produced in the world.