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Israel will not extend settlement freeze.

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Freshgeardude said:
Israel doesnt launch rockets at the palestinains. it happens the other way.
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If you're going to be on a political board, you should learn what a hypothetical and an analogy are.

When I say '[scenario to make a point where the US sends rockets into Canada]', it is not a useful response to ignore the post and say 'but the rockets are from Palestinians'.

And on top of your basic inability to respond to an analogy, you are obnoxious about it. 'Priceless'. Would you like a link for the tea party?
 
Freshgeardude said:
while the date set for the settlement was probably planned as you said but bullshit on the freeze

the freeze was announced in november 2009.

biden was there in march 10.

This article will collaborate what I just said.

http://www.nytimes.com/2010/03/10/world/middleeast/10biden.html
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You're right- Israelis "extended" the "freeze" to include jerusalem after dissing Biden.

So what? the effect and the intentions remain unchanged, the timing of the end of the "freeze" not coincidental in the slightest. For the Israelis, "talks" are just cover for doing what they want.
 
Craig234 said:
If you're going to be on a political board, you should learn what a hypothetical and an analogy are.

When I say '[scenario to make a point where the US sends rockets into Canada]', it is not a useful response to ignore the post and say 'but the rockets are from Palestinians'.

And on top of your basic inability to respond to an analogy, you are obnoxious about it. 'Priceless'. Would you like a link for the tea party?
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Lol.

claiming the US launches rockets into canada as part of your analogy has absolutely nothing in common with the issues between israel and the Palestinians.


israel doesnt launch attacks on its neighbor.

you analogy was completely fail.
 
Craig234 said:
Wrong. The settlements are wrong, period. It's like having trade negotiations with Canada where we launch rockets at them and say they 'gain advantage' if we stop. whats like what? Your example which you call hypothtical is BS!!
Your talking like Lemon law--out your ass!!

There are legitimate 'bargaining chips' and not legitimate. Illegal settlements are not a legitimate bargaining chip. -- point me to a link that says israel is using the legal settlements as a bargaining chip??? You can`t!! Only in your fictional world, that preesently appears to be occupied by lemon law can you dream up such nonsense!!

If we're negotiating and I toss in 'give me this and I won't kill your family', nice deal for me - costs me nothing and gets a concession from you, but it's wrong.

It's no excuse to say 'but you have been stalling on the negotiations, you are holding them up and threatening your family gets you to cooperate'. -- again you are really being totally goofy. Are you asure you and Lemon law are not brothers? Where did anybody threaten anybody? Why are you trying to blow smoke up everybodys ass??__________________
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Where do these people come from?? The comedic value is priceless!!
 
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JediY, demonizing me will do you no good, but you may well discover I have an annoying habit of being right in the end.

The other thing to say is that the debate does not revolve around me, and you will not be thinking its comedic when the world vomits all over Bozo Netanyuhu and the settler parties who now drive the Israeli agenda.

The larger world wants a mid-east peace settlement, and when the gap between Israeli rhetoric and Israeli deeds stretches Israeli credibility way past the breaking point, someone like you will be the last to understand.

In terms of a chess analogy, its now the end game for Israeli bullshit. As Israel under the guidance of Netanyuhu has chosen to defy the entire world.
 
Lemon law said:
JediY, demonizing me will do you no good, but you may well discover I have an annoying habit of being right in the end.

The other thing to say is that the debate does not revolve around me, and you will not be thinking its comedic when the world vomits all over Bozo Netanyuhu and the settler parties who now drive the Israeli agenda.

The larger world wants a mid-east peace settlement, and when the gap between Israeli rhetoric and Israeli deeds stretches Israeli credibility way past the breaking point, someone like you will be the last to understand.

In terms of a chess analogy, its now the end game for Israeli bullshit. As Israel under the guidance of Netanyuhu has chosen to defy the entire world.
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The larger world would like a peace settlement. But they do not blame Israel for such. they have seen what the Palestinians have done in the past w/ respect to negotiations and also with respect to being a peaceful "state".

As long as the issue does not boil over onto their borders, the majority of the nations will not care. Lip service at the most

You can see the results in the flotilla issue w/ respect to Gaza. Two months went by, two ships showed up - neither tried to force the blockade. There were no naval vessels acting as a escort to force the issue.

You can see the results of your predictions - The Pals have not maintained their credibility, so the world is not very concerned about them playing the innocent victim card.
 
Lemon law said:
In terms of a chess analogy, its now the end game for Israeli bullshit. As Israel under the guidance of Netanyuhu has chosen to defy the entire world.
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Again why do you persist in bringing your dreams into the picture?
It`s really obvious the world as a whole does not care.
Yet you and your brother persist in trying to make this a worldwide issue.
How has israel defied the entire world?

I seriously don`t see this as a world wide issue. Can you point us to any links that says this is a world issue?
Can you point us to any links that states the whole world is up in arms over this?
Can you point us to any links that says any nation of the world is mobilizing their military because they are so concerned about this?

How are they defying the whole world?
Seriously friends - this cannot be made up!

Strong in lemon law, the comedic value is.
 
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I wonder if Common Courtesy has unerringly hit the question by saying, "The larger world would like a peace settlement. But they do not blame Israel for such. they have seen what the Palestinians have done in the past."

Which might more accurately translate into Common Courtesy cannot see anything wrong with past and present Israeli actions and therefore cannot conceive of other
Nations thinking any differently from himself.

Then there is the JediY statement of, "Can you point us to any links that state the whole world is up in arms over this?
Can you point us to any links that says any nation of the world is mobilizing their military because they are so concerned about this?"

Again, JediY also lives in a fools paradise, as he is blind to the fact that the eyes of the world are now focused on the current mid-east peace talks, and when the UN, the US, the EU, and Russia have all asked Israel to extend the settlement freeze, and Bozo Netanyuhu has said NYET, Israel is making zero friends. And JediY is also crazy if he thinks the world will respond militarily, when the most likely set of responses will be in be in the political and economic area.

How the larger world will respond if peace talks collapse remains to be seen, and even then, Israeli and US negotiators are working to find some way of extending the Israeli settlement freeze, but the peace talks will not collapse before 10/9/2010 at the earliest.

Only after the collapse of the peace talks will we know what the new world consensus is. But if Israeli settlements are not halted and very soon, all hope of a two State solution may vanish as Israel becomes possibly totally isolated.

When push comes to shove and the question becomes, we can only have a just mid-east peace with the end of the Israeli State, sooner or later the world will choose a just mid-east peace.

The bigger hope in these talks is that we can retain an Israeli State and achieve a just mid-east peace. In short an win win situation.

But on its present course, Israel is setting itself up for a eventual total lose.

But when the larger world does start acting, I expect the the pressure against Israel will start small, and start building up greater and greater until Israel changes its position. And if Israel still stays defiant, they may simply go the way of the apartheid State of South Africa.

Of course I understand that Netanyuhu and JediY may end up being correct, and the larger world will do nothing, but still, Netanyuhu is betting the whole farm on the outcome.

Not a wise bet IMHO.
 
Lemon law said:
Of course I understand that Netanyuhu and JediY may end up being correct, and the larger world will do nothing, but still, Netanyuhu is betting the whole farm on the outcome.

Not a wise bet IMHO.
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You mean like how the Palestinians and Arab neigbors are betting the farm on the total destruction and disappearance of the state of Isreal? Have they ever offered any other outcome in the 62 years of this conflict?
 
And what would an extension of the settlement freeze accomplish.

The Pals were not interested in it for 8 months. then it was an excuse to try to jerk around their importance - the Pals would supposedly be able to make Israel dance to the Pals song.

The Pals misjudged their importance - maybe the PLo and Arab league will put some sense into their heads - but I doubt it.
 
Common Courtesy, you should know how bogus what you saying is with, "The Pals were not interested in it for 8 months. then it was an excuse to try to jerk around their importance - the Pals would supposedly be able to make Israel dance to the Pals song."

After the Palestinians and the Arab States voluntarily tabled the settlement issue at Annapolis. And found Israel talked and talked and did nothing real while
continuing settlements in the West Bank and East Jerusalem, the Israel charade became very clear to EVERYONE IN THE WORLD.

Its why a settlement freeze on disputed land is necessary, because it reduces the incentive for Israel to talk and talk and stall and stall.

And now Netanyuhu is playing the same old game with current peace talks as settlement has already resumed.

Or do you really think the US, the UN, the EU, and Russia only asked for a extension of the settlement freeze because they secretly side with Israel??????????????????

At Annapolis Israel could half way rely on Egypt and Turkey, and now Egypt has already said it will blame Israel if settlements continue and Turkey is now very angry at Israel.

The PLO has already endorsed the Abbas position, and the Arab Leage will weigh in this Friday likely on the side of Abbas.

Maybe you should ask your self a different question Common Courtesy, how many nations will support Israel if they fail to extend the settlement freeze? I suggest Common Courtesy, you are going to discover the answer to that question is ZERO.

Israel may still be able to count on a lesser amount of US support, but the days of total US support may end very soon. All Obama has to do is abstain from Vetoing UN resolutions or cut Israeli foreign aid and let the rest of the world which is far less supportive of Israel set the agenda.

I would hope that will finally have the result of ending Netanyuhu rule, and Israel will find new leadership that will commit to ending the settlements and commit to a peace process.
 
Sinsear said:
When have you ever been right about anything?
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----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I have been largely correct on Vietnam, Iraq, Afghanistan, GWB, and now you are likely to discover I am right regarding the mid-east peace process.

I could ask what you have been correct on, but unlike you I don't expect instant results.

No one can predict exactly how and in what sequence events shape up, but I stand by my statement that I better understand why the final events will result in the final end outcome.
 
Well he was correct about the HRC condemming Israel, while ignoring statements from people that were there and journalists
 
Country's wanted an extension because they felt that the Pals would stay. The Pals have no real interest (where were they for 8 months).

The Pals want Israel to give up everything in exchange for nothing. They will not committ to acknowledging Israel, renouncing terrorism. Without Hamas anything that the WB committs to is suspect in terms of beign a peace.

They had most of the original Palestine area that existed after '48 and rejected it.
After '67, they could have asked for a state, but they wanted Israel gone.
They chose terror instead of statesmanship.

When are they going to say, let Israel stay? they meaning the Palestinians, not just a faction.
When is the Arab world going to accept that Israel is there and stop supporting/tolerating those that continue to attack Israel?

When has Israel ever been given peace from the Arab side?
 
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Sadly Common Courtesy talks about the Palestinians like they were a single entity. And if 1% of Palestinians commit terrorist acts against Israel all Palestinians do.

To a great extent, that was the Israeli offer at Annapolis, even hostile states like Syria and Lebanon would recognize the Israeli right to exists, in exchange for a a return of disputed land taken from Syria and Lebanon, and an agreed on Palestinian State.

Instead Israel showed clearly it did not care about how much Arab and Palestinian hostility it generated, and is instead not interested in peace but rather interested in retaining all the land gains it cannot own.

And Israel does not recognize Hamas, and now Israel is amazed when Hamas refuses to recognize Israel.

But if we do get a peace deal, Israel will, as part of that deal, gain recognition from the surrounding Arab States.

It may seem like I am very anti-Israeli, but in reality I want an Israel at peace that I can support. Failing an extension of the settlement freeze, the least Israel can expect is a large increase of external international terrorism directed at it.

Right now it may seem like Israel is winning but the real winners are international terrorism.

But the final irony is the last Common Courtesy question of, "When has Israel ever been given peace from the Arab side?" When the answer may well be why should Israel ever get any peace from the Arab side when it refuses to make peace with the Arab side, and instead desires to be the mid-east bully and neighbor from hell.

In the 62 years since 1930, the USA fought a world war against Japan and Germany, converted them from enemies to allies, and even won a long cold war with the Soviet Union.

Meanwhile Israel in the 62 years since 1948 has done nothing to make peace, and then wonders why everyone in the Arab world hates their behavior. And at every peace talk, especially at Annapolis, Israel chooses greed over peace. The lone exception maybe giving up what it did not own, namely the can't grow a weed Sinai desert.

Now here we are, in 2010, and Netanyuhu has again chosen greed and the politics of pigs.
 
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Lemon law said:
Sadly Common Courtesy talks about the Palestinians like they were a single entity. And if 1% of Palestinians commit terrorist acts against Israel all Palestinians do. ---actually the rest of the Arab world used the palesinians as an excuse to stage terrorist attacks against Israel!! Not to mention the palestinians who chose to strap bombs aropund their children and use their own children as human bombs!
To a great extent, that was the Israeli offer at Annapolis, even hostile states like Syria and Lebanon would recognize the Israeli right to exists, in exchange for a a return of disputed land taken from Syria and Lebanon, and an agreed on Palestinian State. -- thats not the point is it. Another smoke screen by Lemon law. Many Arab states recognize israel`s right to exist!

Instead Israel showed clearly it did not care about how much Arab and Palestinian hostility it generated, and is instead not interested in peace but rather interested in retaining all the land gains it cannot own.

And Israel does not recognize Hamas, and now Israel is amazed when Hamas refuses to recognize Israel. -- you are wrong about Israel`s recognition of Hamas! They cdrtainly do recognize Hamas!! Israel recognizes Hamas as it is - a terrorist entity killing as many of its own people (if not more) of its own people than it does its enemy Israel.
Have you ever bothered to read the Hamas Charter?
Hamas makes it clear that only the destruction of Israel will suffice. Would you 'recognise' someone who openly said they would only be satisfied with your death?When hamas puts down their weapons, then Israel can and will recognize they are sane. But until the very second they do that, and recognize Israel, they are Islamic extremists who are unrespectable in any way, shape, or form.

But if we do get a peace deal, Israel will, as part of that deal, gain recognition from the surrounding Arab States. -- you are really dreaming!!! You are again making up our version of what you think will happen!!

It may seem like I am very anti-Israeli, but in reality I want an Israel at peace that I can support. -- As in right of return....Israel giving the palestinians everything they want!! --never happen!!
Failing an extension of the settlement freeze, the least Israel can expect is a large increase of external international terrorism directed at it.

Right now it may seem like Israel is winning but the real winners are international terrorism.

But the final irony is the last Common Courtesy question of, "When has Israel ever been given peace from the Arab side?" When the answer may well be why should Israel ever get any peace from the Arab side when it refuses to make peace with the Arab side, and instead desires to be the mid-east bully and neighbor from hell.

In the 62 years since 1930, the USA fought a world war against Japan and Germany, converted them from enemies to allies, and even won a long cold war with the Soviet Union.

Meanwhile Israel in the 62 years since 1948 has done nothing to make peace, and then wonders why everyone in the Arab world hates their behavior. And at every peace talk, especially at Annapolis, Israel chooses greed over peace. The lone exception maybe giving up what it did not own, namely the can't grow a weed Sinai desert.

Now here we are, in 2010, and Netanyuhu has again chosen greed and the politics of pigs.
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Your stand that it is all israel`s fault is bogus and in so many ways pathetically sad!!
 
JediY seems confused, by saying, "Your stand that it is all israel`s fault is bogus and in so many ways pathetically sad!!"

When my position is actually that part of the problem is Israel's fault, as you, JediY, stubbornly remain blind to the fact that part of the problem is Israel's fault.

If you will check, I have always said that all sides in the mid-east have all been guilty of bad behavior, and what we are searching for is better future behavior that will lead to a lasting peace.

The other point to make is that I only seem anti-Israel, because I have undertaken the role of debunking your pro-Israeli propaganda.
 
Lemon law said:
JediY seems confused, by saying, "Your stand that it is all israel`s fault is bogus and in so many ways pathetically sad!!"

When my position is actually that part of the problem is Israel's fault, as you, JediY, stubbornly remain blind to the fact that part of the problem is Israel's fault.

If you will check, I have always said that all sides in the mid-east have all been guilty of bad behavior, and what we are searching for is better future behavior that will lead to a lasting peace.

The other point to make is that I only seem anti-Israel, because I have undertaken the role of debunking your pro-Israeli propaganda.
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Now that is funny!! Coming form an acknowledged palesnian sympathizer who over the last few month has had his ass handed to him concerning the Un Charter and claimed Genocide and a miriad of other claims and positions you have taken in this matter.

Now you think we actually will believe for a moment it was all in an attempt to debunk my pro-Israeli point of view?

You really are truly dillusional!!
 
As JediY states, "You really are truly dillusional!! "

And I say, JediY, you may have your delusions shattered by subsequent events.

Israel is now painting itself into a corner, and its not my fault, as much as you want to pretend it is.
 
Lemon law said:
Should Abbas withdraw, the question is will various powers finally be ready to do something effective against Israel or not.
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Nope, not a chance. Recall that Israel was going to be "forced" to make an agreement at these meetings.

Good luck.
 
Lemon law said:
Sadly Common Courtesy talks about the Palestinians like they were a single entity.

The Pals have to act as one entity if they are going to get anywhere with Israel.

And if 1% of Palestinians commit terrorist acts against Israel all Palestinians do. When more than 50% of the Pals cheer on terrorist acts; when the leadership of the Pals encourages and praises acts...

To a great extent, that was the Israeli offer at Annapolis, even hostile states like Syria and Lebanon would recognize the Israeli right to exists, in exchange for a a return of disputed land taken from Syria and Lebanon, and an agreed on Palestinian State.

Did the Pals agree to recognize Israel? It was the Pals that quit at Annapolis. It was the Pals that refused to go forward after making agreements from Camp David. It was the Pals that refused to go forward after making agreements from Olso.

Instead Israel showed clearly it did not care about how much Arab and Palestinian hostility it generated, and is instead not interested in peace but rather interested in retaining all the land gains it cannot own.
Israel is willing to give up settlements for peace. Will the Pals offer it. At this point, they have not.

And Israel does not recognize Hamas, and now Israel is amazed when Hamas refuses to recognize Israel.
Hamas wants to be a terrorist organization. Look at what they did in Gaza after the elections. Look at what they have stated regarding the peace talks. Israel talked once with them and Hamas broke their word. Israel is not willing to deal with an organization that still is attacking her.

But if we do get a peace deal, Israel will, as part of that deal, gain recognition from the surrounding Arab States.

Recognition vs peace - I am sure that peace is much more critical - will it be offered; for real or fake

It may seem like I am very anti-Israeli, but in reality I want an Israel at peace that I can support. Failing an extension of the settlement freeze, the least Israel can expect is a large increase of external international terrorism directed at it.

Right now it may seem like Israel is winning but the real winners are international terrorism.

But the final irony is the last Common Courtesy question of, "When has Israel ever been given peace from the Arab side?" When the answer may well be why should Israel ever get any peace from the Arab side when it refuses to make peace with the Arab side, and instead desires to be the mid-east bully and neighbor from hell.
When was Israel ever given a chance by the Arabs. Day 1; she was attacked and forced to defender herself. For the next 25 years, the Arabs still kept up the attack mode. For 60+ years, the Palestinians have kept up the attack mode.

In the 62 years since 1930, the USA fought a world war against Japan and Germany, converted them from enemies to allies, and even won a long cold war with the Soviet Union.
The US destroyed the enemy and then rebuilt them. Up to this point, Israel has refrained from destroying the enemy. But there could come a time when she will not hold back.

Meanwhile Israel in the 62 years since 1948 has done nothing to make peace, and then wonders why everyone in the Arab world hates their behavior. And at every peace talk, especially at Annapolis, Israel chooses greed over peace. The lone exception maybe giving up what it did not own, namely the can't grow a weed Sinai desert.

Now here we are, in 2010, and Netanyuhu has again chosen greed and the politics of pigs.
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How about in 2010, Netanyuhu has demonstrated how shallow the Pals are and how easy some of the rest of the world can be manipulated by people complaining that it is not their fault for their predicament.

I will agree, it is not their fault. It is the fault of the parents and grandparents greed that put them in this situation. And when they stop blaming Israel for such and realize that they can not have their cake and eat it also, they will have a chance to improve themselves.
 
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