Israel will not extend settlement freeze.

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Lemon law

Lifer
Nov 6, 2005
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JOS, I do not have the power to nor do I want the power to order you out of this thread, I merely point out your reasoning fails your own adult standards.
 
Jun 26, 2007
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JOS, I do not have the power to nor do I want the power to order you out of this thread, I merely point out your reasoning fails your own adult standards.

Heh, of course you don't, i just have nothing left to say on this situation and kylebeisme is just trying to focus all guilt on Israel while forgetting everythign else (like Israel giving back areas that were then used to bombard Israel with rockets).

I think that there are groups within Palestine that need policing by their own police, until that happens, Israel should continue to strike them out as much as possible, perhaps close all borders all together to starve them out and make the population realise that the terrorists aren't doing them any favours.

I'm afraid that there is no other solution because as much as Hamas want them gone, Israel is there to stay.

Personally, i'd like to see Palestinians laying down their weapons, Israel tearing down their settlements in Jerusalem and the Orthodox retards in those areas go to hell but that's not going to happen, so here we are.

Don't take me for an Israel worshipper because i sure as hell am not, i just recognise their right to defend their own population.
 

kylebisme

Diamond Member
Mar 25, 2000
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...kylebeisme is just trying to focus all guilt on Israel while forgetting everythign else (like Israel giving back areas that were then used to bombard Israel with rockets).
I adressed that, most recently here:

No, again, as Sharon's adviser Dov Weisglass explained:

The disengagement is actually formaldehyde. It supplies the amount of formaldehyde that is necessary so there will not be a political process with the Palestinians.
In other words, the Gaza pullout was done to insure there would be no peace, so the taking of Palestinian land in the West Bank could continue, and it worked just as planned.
I'm not attempting to focus guilt here, but rather am simply interested in discussing the facts, and the fact is that the Israeli establishment and their backers hold the vast majority of the power in this conflict, and their interest is in continuous settlement expansion and various other forms of war profiteering, not peace.
 

EagleKeeper

Discussion Club Moderator<br>Elite Member
Staff member
Oct 30, 2000
42,589
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The Pals do not want peace except at the destruction of Israel.

So the status quo will have to do.
 

Lemon law

Lifer
Nov 6, 2005
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Maybe JOS hits the issue on the head by saying, 'I'm afraid that there is no other solution because as much as Hamas want them gone, Israel is there to stay."

The problem with that JOS statement is that the 3 million plus Palestinians and growing relative to Israel are there to stay as well.

Worse yet for Israel, as long as they screw the Palestinians, they will never ever ever ever find any acceptance from the 275 millions plus Arab neighbors.

The fact is and remains, as much as Israel wants to pretend, the Palestinians who have just grievances against Israel will not grow gills and swim away.

But right now extremists inside of Israel are driving the agenda, and will continue to frustrate any mutual moderates on all sides from achieving a fair and just peace settlement.

And if we are going to arrive at a just mid-east peace, the job of the larger world is to both dope slap the extremists in Israel and Hamas.

Since a moderate like Abbas is part of the debate and Hamas is not, that only leaves dope slapping Netanyuhu and his Israeli extremist ilk as next road block certain.
 

Lemon law

Lifer
Nov 6, 2005
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Once again Common Courtesy lies, by saying, "The Pals do not want peace except at the destruction of Israel.

So the status quo will have to do."

When the fact is and remains the Arab and Palestinian world is ready to accept the Israeli right to exist and only extremists idiots like Netanyuhu refuse to compromise.

I mean I mean, Common Courtesy, just how long do you think the larger world will allow Israel to keep the status quo and keep kicking the mid-east peace can down the road??????????????????????????????????????????

43 years and counting of Israeli squatting on land they cannot ever ever ever own. The only question is when the larger world will demand the end to Israel bullshit. This last decade has hardly been an endorsement of Israeli behavior as Bozo Netanyuhu leads towards really really thin ice.

As for me, I hope Israel does wises up before the ice breaks and its not the end of Israel. As for you Common Courtesy, you seem bound and determined to see an end to Israel.

That is always the problem with an all or nothing gamble, if Israel wants all it may end up with nothing.
 
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woolfe9999

Diamond Member
Mar 28, 2005
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Worse yet for Israel, as long as they screw the Palestinians, they will never ever ever ever find any acceptance from the 275 millions plus Arab neighbors.

Are you joking? They will never get any acceptance from the other 275 million Arabs no matter WHAT they do or do not do relative to the Palestinians. If you think the middle east Arabs actually care about what happens to the Palestinians, you are deluded. If they actually cared about the Palestinians, there are MANY things they could have done to help them, at many different points in time, including especially prior to 1967 when said Arab neighbors controlled the territories now occupied by Israel. And you think, what, that if the Israelis suddenly start being kinder and gentler to the Pals, that Syria, Iran, and the Hezbollah will suddenly start singing a chorus of "kumbaya" with their new Jewish breathren? Seriously, is there any reason to believe that the reason the Arabs hate Israel is not the very same reason they never wanted Israel to exist in the first place? Get freaking clue.

- Wolf
 

EagleKeeper

Discussion Club Moderator<br>Elite Member
Staff member
Oct 30, 2000
42,589
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If the PAls want peace, they will be at the table.

Every other time, they have walked away and/or not complied. While some may blame Israel for not giving everything; the Pals have not demonstrated that they want peace. And what is to be done about Hamas. Two seperate Palestinians "psuedo" states?

The Pals can not even make a decision without getting approval from others; how would they rule themselves.

What are the Pals presently offering as an inducement for peace?
 

EagleKeeper

Discussion Club Moderator<br>Elite Member
Staff member
Oct 30, 2000
42,589
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Palestinians have long backed the Arab League proposal for a two state solution on the basis of international law, but you and your fellow Zionists prefer the status quo of continuing to wipe Palestine off the map through ongoing settlement expansion instead, eh?

Which Palestinians. Who is speaking for who?

Islamist political party Hamas, the elected government of the Gaza Strip, is deeply divided,with most factions rejecting the plan

It also makes the intention of the right of refugees to return.

So with "official" recognition of Israel vs. no reference to peace; Hamas/Gaza opposed this is going to be a starting point - not a termination point.

Will Hezbollah also honor such.

And the Arab league sponsor that are feeding weapons to the Palestinian militants.
 

Lemon law

Lifer
Nov 6, 2005
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Don't worry Common Courtesy, the larger world pays no attention to your delusions, and I doubt the larger world will allow Bozo Netanyuhu to call the tune. Its simply a matter of when, if not very soon, then not much later that the Israeli game will come to a screeching halt.

Right now the whole Israeli ball game is mostly invested in Obama backing Israel to the hilt, and insulting Obama at every step of the way is not a very wise Netanyuhu strategy.
 

Freshgeardude

Diamond Member
Jul 31, 2006
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FGD says, "so by your logic, israel should be punished if abbas walks from the talks."

Which of course is a deflection, Israel should be punished for not extending the settlement freeze.

The FGD goes really overboard stupid with, "the settlements are not an issue. they never were in the past. abbas is simply using it as a ploy to walk away from the table."

FGD, Israeli settlements on disputed land were always an issue, and I can't believe you are so totally clueless by saying what you said. And now we have 500,000 Israeli settlers to complicate any future Palestinian State process.


el oh el.

please prove to me where settlements were an issue of peace talks in previous attempts and that issue was what ended up being the failing cause of the talks
 
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EagleKeeper

Discussion Club Moderator<br>Elite Member
Staff member
Oct 30, 2000
42,589
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Don't worry Common Courtesy, the larger world pays no attention to your delusions, and I doubt the larger world will allow Bozo Netanyuhu to call the tune. Its simply a matter of when, if not very soon, then not much later that the Israeli game will come to a screeching halt.

Right now the whole Israeli ball game is mostly invested in Obama backing Israel to the hilt, and insulting Obama at every step of the way is not a very wise Netanyuhu strategy.

The larger world is not performing according to your desires/predictions.

Israel froze the settlements; the Pals did not come to the table until the freeze was supposed to expire. That indicates that they are not very concerned about the talks; just wanting to see how much they can get Israel to dance to their tune.

Israel did not dance.

Notice that the world has not said/done anything since Israel said that they will not continue the freeze. One round of pleading by those that had a political stake and then mums the word.
 

Lemon law

Lifer
Nov 6, 2005
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Gee you are really delusional Common Courtesy, the larger world will follow the peace process and not do any plan B's as long as the talks are alive.

But everyone major entity in the world is already on record on asking Israel extend the settlement freeze. Common Courtesy, do you really think Israel can say no with impunity?

If the talks then collapse, you can bet the world will blame Israel and start implementing their plan B's.

You might want to check on what happens after the talks collapse before shooting off your mouth. You may find that Israel has zero, nada, zip support from any nation on earth. Bozo Netanyuhu is running a very dangerous bluff, and is likely to get called on that bluff. And now ole Bozo is running out of time and options.

Supposedly Obama also has an alternative mid-east peace plan for use if and when Israel refuses to extend the settlement freeze. And while Obama may be expending 95&#37; of his diplomatic energies trying to get the Israel settlement freeze extended, we may find some 5% of those diplomatic energies have been expended talking to other world entities in terms of forging a consensus on what to do if Israel does not extend a settlement freeze.
 

EagleKeeper

Discussion Club Moderator<br>Elite Member
Staff member
Oct 30, 2000
42,589
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We will know who is right when the Pals come back after licking the hand of the Arab League
 

Freshgeardude

Diamond Member
Jul 31, 2006
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LL you obviously looked at my post and chose to ignore it. so honestly, stop talking bullshit and not backing it up later.
 

Lemon law

Lifer
Nov 6, 2005
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Yes funny thing FGD, I just tend to ignore your posts because there is nothing behind them but your own delusions.

But we are in the end end game now, Abbas is due to consult with the Arab league tomorrow, and assuming the Arab League comes in united behind Abbas, that will complete the world consensus, every major entity in the the entire world united ALL against Israel.

Which comes down to the Common Courtesy statement of, "We will know who is right when the Pals come back after licking the hand of the Arab League."

To which I ask, Common Courtesy, do you really think the Arab League is going to come down on the side of Israel????????????????????????????????????????????????
Especially after what Israel did to the good faith efforts of Arab League at Annapolis!

But put it this way, the Arab league is Israel's last last last lone chance to avert the deluge of negative world opinion.
 

Freshgeardude

Diamond Member
Jul 31, 2006
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Yes funny thing FGD, I just tend to ignore your posts because there is nothing behind them but your own delusions.

LOL you never answered a simple question. WAS the settlement issue a concern that would have derailed the peace talks in previous years? yes or no.

But we are in the end end game now, Abbas is due to consult with the Arab league tomorrow, and assuming the Arab League comes in united behind Abbas, that will complete the world consensus, every major entity in the the entire world united ALL against Israel.

The US is against Israel?



enough with your shit LL gtfo
 

Lemon law

Lifer
Nov 6, 2005
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No now FGD comes up with "The USA is against Israel''

Maybe you are a little confused and behing the times, GWB is no longer POTUS and when Israel said jump,GWB asked how high.

Its not now a question of the USA being against Israel, its a matter of will the USA bail Israel out and veto any anti-Israeli action. And methinks Israel is soon going to discover Obama is not going any longer totally bail Israel out after Israel rebuffed Obama every step of the way. Obama can simply be the semi Israeli good guy, and let the rest of the world really dump on Israel.

And when those anti-Israeli UN resolutions soon hit the UN security Council, Israel may get a US abstension rather than the veto Israel desperately will need. Israel has been able to count on that US veto before, but ole Bozo Netanyuhu and everyone else will know the Israeli occupation jig is over when it happens.
 
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werepossum

Elite Member
Jul 10, 2006
29,873
463
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Maybe JOS hits the issue on the head by saying, 'I'm afraid that there is no other solution because as much as Hamas want them gone, Israel is there to stay."

The problem with that JOS statement is that the 3 million plus Palestinians and growing relative to Israel are there to stay as well.

Worse yet for Israel, as long as they screw the Palestinians, they will never ever ever ever find any acceptance from the 275 millions plus Arab neighbors.

The fact is and remains, as much as Israel wants to pretend, the Palestinians who have just grievances against Israel will not grow gills and swim away.

But right now extremists inside of Israel are driving the agenda, and will continue to frustrate any mutual moderates on all sides from achieving a fair and just peace settlement.

And if we are going to arrive at a just mid-east peace, the job of the larger world is to both dope slap the extremists in Israel and Hamas.

Since a moderate like Abbas is part of the debate and Hamas is not, that only leaves dope slapping Netanyuhu and his Israeli extremist ilk as next road block certain.

The Jews will never have peace from the Arab and Persian Muslims as long as the Jews continue that one thing that most irritates the Muslims - breathing. Forget all those extremists with their unreasonable desires that their children not be shot or their women not be blown up while shopping or their men not be kidnapped and tortured - the Jews' breathing is the heart of the issue. Only when all that horrid Jewish breathing is ended can the Shia and Sunnis and Wahabis get back to peace - you know, trying to wipe out each other rather than the Jews and Christians.
 

Lemon law

Lifer
Nov 6, 2005
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Don't be a fool and a propagandist, the present mid-east peace settlements have nothing to do with Israeli's breathing or not.

The question is will we have a Palestinian state or not which will do something to defuse Arab hatreds. And as Israel returns to its legitimate borders, its military will be better able to defend Israelis in a smaller rather than a larger area.

Its sadly an Israeli dilemma, its too small to have a buffer area now and does not have any real buffer area as it is. And has zero hope of ever acquiring a buffer area through future expansion. Israel has too few people to even defend what it has.

And Israel when given a chance to defuse the hostilities of its neighbors, instead does everything to not only keep pissing off its immediate neighbors, it stupid enough to defy the entire world while they are at it.
 

Freshgeardude

Diamond Member
Jul 31, 2006
4,506
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No now FGD comes up with "The USA is against Israel''

Maybe you are a little confused and behing the times, GWB is no longer POTUS and when Israel said jump,GWB asked how high.

Its not now a question of the USA being against Israel, its a matter of will the USA bail Israel out and veto any anti-Israeli action. And methinks Israel is soon going to discover Obama is not going any longer totally bail Israel out after Israel rebuffed Obama every step of the way. Obama can simply be the semi Israeli good guy, and let the rest of the world really dump on Israel.

And when those anti-Israeli UN resolutions soon hit the UN security Council, Israel may get a US abstension rather than the veto Israel desperately will need. Israel has been able to count on that US veto before, but ole Bozo Netanyuhu and everyone else will know the Israeli occupation jig is over when it happens.


obama does not run this country.

the house and senate do as well.

In the recent months of obama's not so nice behavior with israel, both houses signed separate overwhelmingly majority letters to obama to lay off the hate.

Lol I just came back from an AIPAC event in Washington DC and I lobbied by representative.


As long as AIPAC exists, and we have representatives and senators wanting to be relected, they will be pro-israel.

and the facts show just as much that israel is worth more per dollar than any other ally of the world.
 

Freshgeardude

Diamond Member
Jul 31, 2006
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Don't be a fool and a propagandist, the present mid-east peace settlements have nothing to do with Israeli's breathing or not.

says the leftist. Arabs have hated jews for hundreds of years.

The question is will we have a Palestinian state or not which will do something to defuse Arab hatreds. And as Israel returns to its legitimate borders, its military will be better able to defend Israelis in a smaller rather than a larger area.

As long as israel exists, there will be arab hatred. Hamas and Iran are not going to all of a sudden praise israel's actions on peace talks they already deemed a failure.

Its sadly an Israeli dilemma, its too small to have a buffer area now and does not have any real buffer area as it is. And has zero hope of ever acquiring a buffer area through future expansion. Israel has too few people to even defend what it has.

LOL wow. Golan heights much? before israel took the land in war, syria attacks israeli settlements from the high ground, now we got it, syria isnt looking to attack israel.

sinai penn? HUGE buffer zone from egypt el oh el. and guess what? peace with egypt and we no longer need a buffer from them.


And Israel when given a chance to defuse the hostilities of its neighbors, instead does everything to not only keep pissing off its immediate neighbors, it stupid enough to defy the entire world while they are at it.

israel from day one asked for peace. It was met with war from 7 nations.

israel made peace with egypt and jordan. they are still at peace

Israel almost made peace with lebanon, till the syrians assassinated the leader in lebanon.

Syrian peace talks are in the alpha stages.


Israel left southern lebanon and gaza in their respective years and got two terrorist organizations stocking up on enough missiles to seperate the US in half down.


No one is going after israel. Your predictions have been completely wrong in the past while mine have been right. Your track record is at 0% while mine is at 100%.

If I was an investor or gambler, the obvious answer is that I am the better choice to deal with.


You know this to be true, except you like to deny it. You wont even take up a bet you feel you are SURE to be right in.


do you honestly look at hard facts, flip them around, and the post?