israel levels an entire city within an hour

[fskimospy]

pretty much... it would be much easier to talk about a 2-state solution if one of those states wasn't run by a group of people dedicated to the total destruction of the state of Israel.

Hamas needs to either go, or reform/demilitarize and accept the fact that they've lost the war for Israel. short of obtaining a nuclear bomb, there's no amount of suicide bombers they can throw that's going to make the Israeli's pack up and leave. but of course, if they do that then the money stops flowing from Iran (who probably doesn't even care about the Palestinians outside of using Hamas to make life harder for their enemies in Egypt and Israel)

You realize that one of the biggest reasons why Hamas gained control was that one of those states was run by a group of people who weren't dedicated to the total destruction of the state of Israel... and it didn't matter.

The reason Hamas got elected was that people felt that the moderates in Fatah had failed.

 

[cabri]

You realize that one of the biggest reasons why Hamas gained control was that one of those states was run by a group of people who weren't dedicated to the total destruction of the state of Israel... and it didn't matter.

The reason Hamas got elected was that people felt that the moderates in Fatah had failed.

So Hamas is elected to go the worse route for the people :thumbsup:

Now that Hamas has the power in Gaza, they are not going to release it.

 

[nageov3t]

You realize that one of the biggest reasons why Hamas gained control was that one of those states was run by a group of people who weren't dedicated to the total destruction of the state of Israel... and it didn't matter.

The reason Hamas got elected was that people felt that the moderates in Fatah had failed.

it surely mattered a little.

things seem to have gone from bad to really, really, really fucking terrible since Hamas took over... by any measure, are the Palestinians better off today than they were before Hamas?

I'm surprised Israel doesn't try and divide-and-conquer strategy... isolate Hamas-controlled Gaza by ending the settlements and giving the Fatah-controlled West Bank whatever they want in exchange for demilitarizing.

 

[Doc Savage Fan]

You realize that one of the biggest reasons why Hamas gained control was that one of those states was run by a group of people who weren't dedicated to the total destruction of the state of Israel... and it didn't matter.

The reason Hamas got elected was that people felt that the moderates in Fatah had failed.

...and now that they see what "failure" actually looks like under Hamas?

Support for Hamas Waning; Gazan Journalist Says Most Gazans Hate Hamas
http://www.algemeiner.com/2014/07/2...gazan-journalist-says-most-gazans-hate-hamas/

 

[nehalem256]

"International law" is what we use to justify invading third world countries. First world countries break it all the time without consequence. Much like criminal law in the first world, it's really only for the poors.

Which is basically exactly what Eskimospy was saying. Since he fully supported the stealing of Formosa from Japan because it was done 2 months before the founding of the UN, by the exact same people who stole the land.

Anyone who can say that with a straight face obviously doesn't believe in any real principles. They just want technical justifications for their actions.

 

[cabri]

The 72-hour humanitarian case fire put in place by the US and UN yesterday and which began at 8:00 am was violated at 10:03 am by a mortar fired from Gaza at Israel, Ha'aretz reported.

About 40 minutes later another mortar was fired at Israel from Gaza and the IDF apprently responded by shelling parts of Gaza as gun battles reportedly eruped in Gaza, as well.

Hamas also has been firing rockets into Israel, but is not yet clear when that rocket fire resumed.

"This is once more that Hamas and terror organizations in Gaza are grossly violating the agreed-upon cease-fire, this time before the U.S. secretary of State and the UN Secretary General," the Prime Minister's Office told Ha'aretz.

Link

Hamas's deputy leader Moussa Abu Marzuq said "any operation was conducted before the ceasefire started".

Israel was able to halt operations, Hamas & company had plenty of time to suspend the operation if they wanted to. This has happened before; they get a ceasefire/truce and then find an excuse that someone else accidently broke it.

He told AFP that any announcement of a soldier's capture must come from the group's military wing in Gaza, but he did not deny that Hamas militants abducted the soldier.

Same song and Dance when the teenagers were kidnapped/executed. Refuse to deny/disavow what happened by a supported "red-headed stepchild"

Abu Marzuq said Hamas was still prepared to abide by the 72-hour truce if Israel was willing to do so.

Israel should respond by stating that no truce until the soldier is released.

 

[Doc Savage Fan]

Finnish TV Reporter at Gaza’s Al Shifa Hospital: ‘It’s True That Rockets Are Launched Here From the Gazan Side Into Israel’ (VIDEO)
http://www.algemeiner.com/2014/08/0...d-here-from-the-gazan-side-into-israel-video/

 

[nehalem256]

Link

Israel was able to halt operations, Hamas & company had plenty of time to suspend the operation if they wanted to. This has happened before; they get a ceasefire/truce and then find an excuse that someone else accidently broke it.

Same song and Dance when the teenagers were kidnapped/executed. Refuse to deny/disavow what happened by a supported "red-headed stepchild"

Israel should respond by stating that no truce until the soldier is released.

It seems to me that if the operation was really started before the truce Hamas should return the abducted soldier immediately and apologize as a gesture of good faith.

Anything less reveals their claim to be total BS.

 

[fskimospy]

...and now that they see what "failure" actually looks like under Hamas?

Support for Hamas Waning; Gazan Journalist Says Most Gazans Hate Hamas
http://www.algemeiner.com/2014/07/2...gazan-journalist-says-most-gazans-hate-hamas/

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Algemeiner_Journal

"The truth-telling advocate for the Jewish People and Israel"? Sounds like an unbiased source to me! Seriously, why not look into the sources of things before posting them? Did you not notice that this article is also quoting WorldNetDaily as a source?

Israel has been ghettoizing, imprisoning, and blowing up Palestinians for decades now. Would you say the average Palestinian today is more or less radical than in the past? Things like this will just cause further radicalization.

 

[nehalem256]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Algemeiner_Journal

"The truth-telling advocate for the Jewish People and Israel"? Sounds like an unbiased source to me! Seriously, why not look into the sources of things before posting them? Did you not notice that this article is also quoting WorldNetDaily as a source?

Israel has been ghettoizing, imprisoning, and blowing up Palestinians for decades now. Would you say the average Palestinian today is more or less radical than in the past? Things like this will just cause further radicalization.

We ground Germany into dust during WWII. Do you think the average German was more or less radical after WWII?

We ground Japan into dust including WWII dropping 2 atomic bombs on them. Do you think the average Japanese was more or less radical after WWII?

 

[nixium]

We ground Germany into dust during WWII. Do you think the average German was more or less radical after WWII?

We ground Japan into dust including WWII dropping 2 atomic bombs on them. Do you think the average Japanese was more or less radical after WWII?

Hey bud get with the program. Those examples don't count because they're successful countries, so any sympathy is automatically not offered by a liberal because they aren't downtrodden enough, no matter how painful the actions they faced are.

It's telling that this forum has half a dozen threads on the atrocities of Israel, when there were maybe a thread or two when Assad was slaughtering and torturing his own citizens by the tens of thousands. But of course he got a pass because his country is a downtrodden third world shithole, and we know what warm and fuzzy feelings liberals get when they excuse them for their horrific violations of human rights.

 

[norseamd]

...and now that they see what "failure" actually looks like under Hamas? Support for Hamas Waning; Gazan Journalist Says Most Gazans Hate Hamas http://www.algemeiner.com/2014/07/27...ns-hate-hamas/

Oh fucking shit must be the fault of Gazan Arabs for electing Hamas now is it?

 

[nixium]

Oh fucking shit must be the fault of Gazan Arabs for electing Hamas now is it?

Yeah, the gazans elected Hamas and that's why they get to to do the most horrific things they want against the civilians.

Do you bend over and take it if someone you elected turns against, you because you "voted" for him?

By this logic all you liberals should be be completely pro bush because most of the country voted for him.

The logical failures that you guys sink to make your point are just dumbfounding.

And, oh:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Gaza_(2007)

I didn't realize coups were spun as "elections" these days.

 

[Doc Savage Fan]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Algemeiner_Journal

"The truth-telling advocate for the Jewish People and Israel"? Sounds like an unbiased source to me! Seriously, why not look into the sources of things before posting them? Did you not notice that this article is also quoting WorldNetDaily as a source?

Israel has been ghettoizing, imprisoning, and blowing up Palestinians for decades now. Would you say the average Palestinian today is more or less radical than in the past? Things like this will just cause further radicalization.

Source was a Gazan journalist.

 

[Exophase]

...and now that they see what "failure" actually looks like under Hamas?

Support for Hamas Waning; Gazan Journalist Says Most Gazans Hate Hamas
http://www.algemeiner.com/2014/07/2...gazan-journalist-says-most-gazans-hate-hamas/

If this is accurate it'd really be best if Israel could somehow empower the common people to resist and overthrow Hamas instead of retaliating in ways that harm all Gazans. But I don't know how realistically this can happen without a real occupation...

 

[nehalem256]

And, oh:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Gaza_(2007)

I didn't realize coups were spun as "elections" these days.

Someone forgot his Liberal->English dictionary ^_^

 

[CitizenKain]

Hey bud get with the program. Those examples don't count because they're successful countries, so any sympathy is automatically not offered by a liberal because they aren't downtrodden enough, no matter how painful the actions they faced are.

It's telling that this forum has half a dozen threads on the atrocities of Israel, when there were maybe a thread or two when Assad was slaughtering and torturing his own citizens by the tens of thousands. But of course he got a pass because his country is a downtrodden third world shithole, and we know what warm and fuzzy feelings liberals get when they excuse them for their horrific violations of human rights.

So, where exactly did people on here give Assad a pass?

This is interesting, Times of Israel posted this, and then pulled it down:
When Genocide is Permissible
https://archive.today/RPf3M#selection-1087.420-1095.38

 

[Oldgamer]

The pictures I am seeing on the net are so horrendous, mostly small children just ripped apart by all the bombing, and such. I see more women, children and elderly dead and ripped up than actual men. I don't understand why the Israeli's are targeting some of the schools and hospitals. Is this a genocide thing?

 

[Doc Savage Fan]

If this is accurate it'd really be best if Israel could somehow empower the common people to resist and overthrow Hamas instead of retaliating in ways that harm all Gazans. But I don't know how realistically this can happen without a real occupation...

Here's a decent article on this subject.

As Hamas takes on Israel, not all in Gaza are cheering (+video)
http://www.csmonitor.com/World/Midd...-on-Israel-not-all-in-Gaza-are-cheering-video

 

[Doc Savage Fan]

I don't understand why the Israeli's are targeting some of the schools and hospitals.

Because Hamas is firing rockets from these locations?

 

[norseamd]

Yeah, the gazans elected Hamas and that's why they get to to do the most horrific things they want against the civilians. Do you bend over and take it if someone you elected turns against, you because you "voted" for him? By this logic all you liberals should be be completely pro bush because most of the country voted for him. The logical failures that you guys sink to make your point are just dumbfounding. And, oh: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Gaza_(2007) I didn't realize coups were spun as "elections" these days.

Your opinion on this issue in spite of your understanding of this issue has shown your true character.

 

[norseamd]

How exactly do you suggest hospital aides without weapons go about preventing Hamas from using their Hospital grounds for launching rockets and missiles?

 

[Adia]

Israel has been ghettoizing, imprisoning, and blowing up Palestinians for decades now. Would you say the average Palestinian today is more or less radical than in the past? Things like this will just cause further radicalization.

Hey now, let's stick to the facts before shouting out big words.
Israel never done any of those things, because Israel never targetted Palestinians, but Palestinian terrorists.
Did you know that in 2005 Israel completly vacated Gaza, leaving all of the area to the control of the Palestinians? Ever since Israel left, Hamas took over and empowered to what you see now.
Do you know that Israel tranfers everyday huge amounts of goods into Gaza, knowing big part of it will be used by Hamas for rockets and tunnels?
Do you know that Israel supply Gaza over 60% of it's power consumption, and it kept supplying it while fighting, until Hamas rockets hit the supply lines of itself?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Algemeiner_Journal

"The truth-telling advocate for the Jewish People and Israel"? Sounds like an unbiased source to me! Seriously, why not look into the sources of things before posting them? Did you not notice that this article is also quoting WorldNetDaily as a source?

I gotta say one more thing about that, the world media shows a realy false and decieving coverage about what is going on here. So you should take what you read on BBC, CNN e.t.c with a grain of salt.

 

[nehalem256]

How exactly do you suggest hospital aides without weapons go about preventing Hamas from using their Hospital grounds for launching rockets and missiles?

And how do you suggest Israel defend itself from people launching rockets from a hospital without target said hospital?

 

[Doc Savage Fan]

How exactly do you suggest hospital aides without weapons go about preventing Hamas from using their Hospital grounds for launching rockets and missiles?

No one is suggesting this. The question was asked why hospitals and schools were being targeted...they aren't...it's the rocket attacks coming from these areas that are being targeted.