israel levels an entire city within an hour

[CitizenKain]

How about the terrorists move the weapons out of the schools and hospitals.

Like that would stop the IDF from slaughtering civilians. Shit, they murdered kids on a beach for shits and giggles.

 

[fskimospy]

Given that Hamas places the squeeze on the Palestinians in Gaza.
Israel supplies the majority of items to the Palestinians in Gaza.

Place the squeeze on Israel, and Israel chokes Gaza completely. Just like Hamas, they will take care of themselves first.

The tit for tat scenario.

Gaza and the world will fold the sanctions well before Israel does. The British tried to apply an embargo against pre-Israel and that was able to be fairly well broken by those that supported the Jews.

How long do you think that Gaza can last without logistics from Israel even if Egypt was to work with Gaza by opening their borders? Egypt is more concerned with Hamas getting out and creating mischief than providing support for the Gaza population.

The idea that you think israel would respond to sanctions by attempting to starve the gazans to death implies you believe them to be even more monstrous than all but their most fervent detractors.

As for your scenario, that's terribly naive. The difference from sanctions would be vastly asymmetric.

 

[Caravaggio]

I read a lot of these replies and think that people don't understand simple geography...

We have some folks saying "They shouldn't be with terrorists if they don't want Israel to retaliate!"

This is equivalent of saying that some fish in a barrel should think to move before we open fire.

There is nowhere for them to go. And children who are 2, 3, 4, 5 years old are not old enough to be "terrorists" or sympathizers. They are just kids. And the majority of the casualties of this war thus far. Nobody is defending Hamas, but a missile that the Palestinian children have no control over, they should be collectively punished for?

The Palestinians have nowhere to go, so they go to UN camps... and still get bombed.

Good post, you nailed it.

The vast superiority of Israeli weaponry (mostly US supplied, mostly given from the foreign aid budget which itself is skewed heavily in favour of Israel) makes the military outcome boringly predictable.
But while the US will always stick by Israel until it wakes from its collective coma, induced by AIPAC 's command of the airwaves, things are not going so well for Israel in the the propaganda war. What is happening in Gaza looks cruel, sadistic and arbitrary. If the IDF have such hi-tec kit, multiple drones and 3D command of the battlefield, why are so many women and children (and even donkeys) being killed?

Anti-Jewish riots are now common in France, British protests are growing daily with Church leaders calling for Israeli restraint. Acts of open anti-semitisim have doubled in recent weeks (mostly verbal). I have no time for bullies of any stripe but if Israelis seem arrogantly untouchable at home, there will those who will take it out on Jews elsewhere.

 

[MongGrel]

Humanitarian cease-fire set in Mideast conflict, but will the peace last?

http://www.cnn.com/2014/07/31/world/meast/mideast-crisis/index.html

 

[Nebor]

If they are making an effort they are doing a really bad job at it.

They're doing a much better job of it than we've ever done, and under worse conditions.

 

[Nebor]

Good post, you nailed it.

The vast superiority of Israeli weaponry (mostly US supplied, mostly given from the foreign aid budget which itself is skewed heavily in favour of Israel) makes the military outcome boringly predictable.
But while the US will always stick by Israel until it wakes from its collective coma, induced by AIPAC 's command of the airwaves, things are not going so well for Israel in the the propaganda war. What is happening in Gaza looks cruel, sadistic and arbitrary. If the IDF have such hi-tec kit, multiple drones and 3D command of the battlefield, why are so many women and children (and even donkeys) being killed?

Anti-Jewish riots are now common in France, British protests are growing daily with Church leaders calling for Israeli restraint. Acts of open anti-semitisim have doubled in recent weeks (mostly verbal). I have no time for bullies of any stripe but if Israelis seem arrogantly untouchable at home, there will those who will take it out on Jews elsewhere.

I think your idea of how modern warfare works is from a combination of video games and movies. Innocent people die in wars. The more of them that are around, the more that are going to die. Intelligence isn't perfectly up to date every minute. Then throw in the fact that Hamas is purposely putting civilians in harms way and it becomes impossible to spare them. I hesitate to call anyone in Gaza "innocent" since they elected Hamas and still support them.

 

[Raizinman]

Humanitarian cease-fire set in Mideast conflict, but will the peace last?

http://www.cnn.com/2014/07/31/world/meast/mideast-crisis/index.html

Anybody want to take bets who will break the cease fire first?

 

[JEDIYoda]

The vast superiority of Israeli weaponry (mostly US supplied, mostly given from the foreign aid budget which itself is skewed heavily in favour of Israel) makes the military outcome boringly predictable.
But while the US will always stick by Israel until it wakes from its collective coma, induced by AIPAC 's command of the airwaves, things are not going so well for Israel in the the propaganda war. What is happening in Gaza looks cruel, sadistic and arbitrary. If the IDF have such hi-tec kit, multiple drones and 3D command of the battlefield, why are so many women and children (and even donkeys) being killed?

Anti-Jewish riots are now common in France, British protests are growing daily with Church leaders calling for Israeli restraint. Acts of open anti-semitisim have doubled in recent weeks (mostly verbal). I have no time for bullies of any stripe but if Israelis seem arrogantly untouchable at home, there will those who will take it out on Jews elsewhere.

damn...more of your insane diatribe...

 

[fskimospy]

They're doing a much better job of it than we've ever done, and under worse conditions.

Conditions of their own making.

 

[nageov3t]

Anybody want to take bets who will break the cease fire first?

once again, the dirty Israeli's forced Hamas to kidnap an Israeli soldier and violate the cease-fire only hours after it went into effect.

http://www.nytimes.com/2014/08/02/world/middleeast/israel-gaza-conflict.html

 

[Caravaggio]

damn...more of your insane diatribe...

Good word 'diatribe'. I am impressed, you are broadening your vocabulary. Did you borrow that from Mitchell Bard? All you have to do now is to learn to put his words in the right order.

By the way, I like your new Zionist logo, cuts out any earlier ambiguity.

Did you campaign for Pollard's release, by any chance?

------------------------------------------------------------------------------

“Why should the Arabs make peace?If I was an Arab leader I would never make peace with Israel.That is natural: we have taken their country.”
David Ben Gurion (Israel’s first Prime Minister, 1956)

 

[cabri]

Humanitarian cease-fire set in Mideast conflict, but will the peace last?

http://www.cnn.com/2014/07/31/world/meast/mideast-crisis/index.html

Anybody want to take bets who will break the cease fire first?

once again, the dirty Israeli's forced Hamas to kidnap an Israeli soldier and violate the cease-fire only hours after it went into effect.

http://www.nytimes.com/2014/08/02/world/middleeast/israel-gaza-conflict.html

Of course it is Israel's fault. They should not have been in those tunnels!

 

[QuantumPion]

Ok let's try this again. What do YOU think the penalty/punishment/resolution for illegal armed conquest in violation of international law and the UN should be? No evading allowed, this is just hypothetical.

Yeap. This would be devastating to Israel's economy and severely inhibit their ability to continue this kind of behavior.

Presumably you're asking if I think we should attack Israel militarily. I'd say that recent military action in the Middle East has shown why that would be a bad idea.

We are talking about the Arab League's multiple invasions, war of conquest, and attempted genocide of Israel here. You keep repeating over and over that Israel is illegal occupying such and such. But you pay no mind whatsoever to the belligerents trying to destroy Israel. You claim "just because the arab league tried to destroy Israel over and over doesn't mean Israel gets to keep the land they lost". But actually, IT DOES.

The problem with your line of thinking is that the rule of law requires participation from both sides. You can tell a bear it's illegal to try to eat you, but it's a bear. It doesn't care about your laws. When it charges at you, and you shoot it in self defense, you don't get to call that murder.

 

[fskimospy]

We are talking about the Arab League's multiple invasions, war of conquest, and attempted genocide of Israel here. You keep repeating over and over that Israel is illegal occupying such and such. But you pay no mind whatsoever to the belligerents trying to destroy Israel. You claim "just because the arab league tried to destroy Israel over and over doesn't mean Israel gets to keep the land they lost". But actually, IT DOES.

The problem with your line of thinking is that the rule of law requires participation from both sides. You can tell a bear it's illegal to try to eat you, but it's a bear. It doesn't care about your laws. When it charges at you, and you shoot it in self defense, you don't get to call that murder.

This is a frequent tactic by apologists for Israel's behavior. You have in your head that if I oppose Israel's illegal actions that I must support other illegal actions taken against them. This is clearly illogical.

As to their right to those lands, kindly cite the legal provisions that override the UN Charter, the Geneva conventions, etc.

 

[Harabec]

You and many others all over the world seem to ONLY criticize Israel in the decades of conflict while nearly ignoring the rest of the players in the sandbox.

Would you say the arabs around us are to be treated as little children with no consequences arising from their actions?

 

[QuantumPion]

This is a frequent tactic by apologists for Israel's behavior. You have in your head that if I oppose Israel's illegal actions that I must support other illegal actions taken against them. This is clearly illogical.

As to their right to those lands, kindly cite the legal provisions that override the UN Charter, the Geneva conventions, etc.

/facepalm.

By your logic, it would have been illegal for us to declare war on Japan in WW2 since wars of conquest are illegal. I guess we have to give all the pacific islands and Alaska back to Japan now. I mean yeah it was illegal for them to conquer those in the first place, but it was illegal for us to take them back and it only matters that we follow the law, even if they don't.

 

[nehalem256]

/facepalm.

By your logic, it would have been illegal for us to declare war on Japan in WW2 since wars of conquest are illegal. I guess we have to give all the pacific islands and Alaska back to Japan now. I mean yeah it was illegal for them to conquer those in the first place, but it was illegal for us to take them back and it only matters that we follow the law, even if they don't.

Actually you have it wrong. We were perfectly right to take back our land from Japan. But all land that was Japan's at the time of Pearl Harbor should be returned to them.

Somehow I think Korea and Taiwan might not take so kindly to Japan requesting its rightful land back

 

[fskimospy]

/facepalm.

By your logic, it would have been illegal for us to declare war on Japan in WW2 since wars of conquest are illegal. I guess we have to give all the pacific islands and Alaska back to Japan now. I mean yeah it was illegal for them to conquer those in the first place, but it was illegal for us to take them back and it only matters that we follow the law, even if they don't.

/facepalm

You need a history lesson and an international law lesson. The UN Charter didn't exist before WW2.

 

[nehalem256]

/facepalm

You need a history lesson and an international law lesson. The UN Charter didn't exist before WW2.

But it did exist in 1951 when Japan was forced to cede Formosa.

When can we expect you to start calling for the return of Formosa to Japan?

 

[cabri]

/facepalm

You need a history lesson and an international law lesson. The UN Charter didn't exist before WW2.

What did the UN do after Israel was invaded by the Arab league. NOTHING.
Complains only happen when Israel defends herself and creates a buffer zone from the land of those that attacked her.

When she is no longer being attacked; land used as a buffer is released. Let the Palestinians realize that. Egypt and Jordan did.


So where is the slapdowns of wars of conquests after WW2.
What is the difference between Hungary, Czechoslovakia, Tibet, Mongolia, Crimea, etc.

By your definition, a hostile country goes into another area and controls the government, resources, etc.

The external world does nothing.

 

[fskimospy]

But it did exist in 1951 when Japan was forced to cede Formosa.

When can we expect you to start calling for the return of Formosa to Japan?

You also need a history lesson. Dumbass.

 

[Caravaggio]

You and many others all over the world seem to ONLY criticize Israel in the decades of conflict while nearly ignoring the rest of the players.[\QUOTE]

Now that is a very good point. I cannot answer for others but the Arab nations around Israel are hardly models of democracy. Islam brutalises subject peoples and demands an obedience no rational person should endure.

The Saudis have betrayed all responsibility entirely. They are so rich they can afford to fund everything from hospitals to 9/11 and still have change for a Ferrari each, four wives and a mistress. They have become big spoilt adolescents. A completely backwards non-culture. Sand, sand and idle 'princes' exploiting a Philipino and Pakistani workforce who carry the load, like modern slaves.

The Turks operate double standards, crying crocodile tears for the Palestinians whist depriving the Kurds of nationhood. They still deny the Armenian Massacre of 1916- even took place.

Jordan, gave the West Bank to Israel, hardly a moral position.

Syria, permanent hatred and a very dodgy state apparatus.

So, in this context, Israel seems like an island of calm decency?

But it is unable to embrace its own brutal history, it has a formal commitment to prefer Jewish citizens over others, this leads to a diluted form of the same irrational prejudices that makes Saudi so abominable. Copying the worst ancient prejudices will not advance civilisation. Charging Palestinians more for clean drinking water than they charge Jews is appalling. What message does that send? The 'Law of Return' is both nasty and historically absurd. We expect more.

For me, the great sadness is that, for the most part, Israelis have their parental and intellectual roots in post enlightenment Europe. They were victims of great prejudice in parts of Europe, but they also absorbed that love of truth and science that allowed us to break free of the dark ages. I hate to see Israel descend into nonsense and false myth history, like the other side of a Saudi coin.

But, just for the record, if it was a war between Israel and ISIS I would be out there fighting for Israel.

 

[nehalem256]

You also need a history lesson. Dumbass.

What history lesson.

Japan ruled Formosa before World War II. It then launched a war of aggression and lost control over the island.

It was then forced to cede control over the island in 1951 after the establishment of the UN.

So when can we expect you to call for the return of Formosa to its rightful owner?

 

[fskimospy]

What history lesson.

Japan ruled Formosa before World War II. It then launched a war of aggression and lost control over the island.

It was then forced to cede control over the island in 1951 after the establishment of the UN.

So when can we expect you to call for the return of Formosa to its rightful owner?

As soon as you learn what you're talking about, so probably never.

The Japanese instrument of surrender predates the establishment of the UN, which includes Japanese acceptance of the Potsdam Declaration, which grants Japan sovereignty over only Japan's main islands and whatever other islands the Allies determined.

Seriously, why bother embarrassing yourself again?

 

[QuantumPion]

What history lesson.

Japan ruled Formosa before World War II. It then launched a war of aggression and lost control over the island.

It was then forced to cede control over the island in 1951 after the establishment of the UN.

So when can we expect you to call for the return of Formosa to its rightful owner?

It's clear eskimospy thinks that law only applies to Israel. Everyone else is "below the law" and therefore does not apply to them. But Israel is morally superior, therefore they must obey the law even though everyone attacking them does not. And by not obeying said law, Israel is therefore morally deficient. Makes sense now, right?