Israel Launches Spy Satelite, Into The Med

[Drift3r]

Originally posted by: Trente

Originally posted by: Drift3r

Originally posted by: Trente

Originally posted by: Drift3r

Originally posted by: Zephyr106
Criticizing Israel is anti-Semitic because it denies the right of the Jews to have a homeland. Just as criticizing France is racist because it denies the right of the French to have a homeland.

In other news you queers really crack me up.

Zephyr

LoL.

Quick note....Being anti-Israel is not being anti-Semitic as you correctly but sarcastically stated. The fact that most Jews in the world are of European decent and there is only a minorty group of Semitic decent also further proves this as being a misnomer. Then again not all Semitic peoples are Jews as well.

Being anti-semitic means generating hate towards jews because they are jews. jews are considered, according to the bible, as a semite-people. the word 'semite' came from the name of Noach's son, named Shem. Now you're happy?

Sorry but please show me a non-biased link that states that Jews are the only Semitic peoples in the world from a respected and well known anthropologist.

I never said that! but the term Anti-Smitic is a way to say Anti-Jewish most of the time...[/quote]

No it's a term that has been hi-jacked to mean only "anti-Jewish". You confused the fact that the term Semitic has been hijacked for the use by only one group but the reality is that the word Semitic is described in the dictionary and by antropoligist as meaning anyone of Afro-Asiatic decent speaking a Afro-Asiatic language or belonging to a Afro-Asiatic culture. Also the fact that most Jews especially those here in the US and in Israel are of ( Western and Eastern ) European decent further shows how the word has been further mis-applied.

 

[Trente]

Thank you, captain obvious.

 

[Drift3r]

Originally posted by: Trente

Originally posted by: Drift3r

Originally posted by: Trente

Originally posted by: Drift3r

Originally posted by: Trente

Originally posted by: Zephyr106
Criticizing Israel is anti-Semitic because it denies the right of the Jews to have a homeland

I just pointed to Klixxer that IMO even if he thinks Israel is acting wrong, should keep his views to himself as there are too many people here (including yourself) who do a great job in expressing their anti-Israeli views that could very well be based and founded upon anti-Semitic pre-views.

Yeah just like anyone who talks bad about Mexicans is really is only doing so because they have racist views towards Mexicans or other Latinos. Just like anyone who talks ill of Jessie Jackson more then likely dons a white sheet and burns crosses on weekends.

Israel is a country that is dedicated for the Jews.
Mexico is a country that is dedicated for the Mexicans.

Quite the difference...

So Israel is a country dedicated to a religion while Mexico is a country dedicated to a ethnic group.

Israel is a country that was built for jews in the first place, after so many years of persecution by almost every empire existed. You wouldn't mind giving us a land as big as 1/460 that of the US, now would you?

That's not the issue in this specific series of posts here. The issue in this specific series of posts here is that you relate anyone who is anti-Israel government as being anti-Jewish. Hell I know of many Jews who view Israel with some disdain and there are orthodox Jews who do not recognize Israel as a valid Jewish state. So to say that a non-Jew is being anti-Jewish in their negative opinion toward the Israeli government and their tactics is nothing more then a deceptive attempt to draw away any criticism away from the issue at large by using a false statement of anti-Semitism.

 

[Trente]

Your words are pretty; they hold nothing in real life, though. the fact is that many anti-semitic are using the "I'm just being anti-Israeli" shield too much.

 

[Drift3r]

Originally posted by: Trente
Your words are pretty; they hold nothing in real life, though. the fact is that many anti-semitic are using the "I'm just being anti-Israeli" shield too much.

They don't hold any wieght because you refuse to look at the facts and blindly state a wrong headed opinion. Anyways I wonder how many Jews citizen the Vatican ( which is a state onto it's self ) and the Pope ? Are Jews who criticize the Pope or the Vatican anti-Christian ? What about Orthodox Jews who critize Israel and the refuse to acknowledge it as a Jewish state ? Are they anti-Jewish ?

P.S. European ( Western and Eastern ) Jews are not Semitic they are European. Also not all Semites are Jews.

 

[CWRMadcat]

Originally posted by: Trente
Your words are pretty; they hold nothing in real life, though. the fact is that many anti-semitic are using the "I'm just being anti-Israeli" shield too much.

And likewise, the fact is that tons of jewish people like to scream pretty sound bytes like "holocaust" and "persecution" and "anti-semite" in order to silence people who disagree with Israeli policy. Your same twisted logic can be thrown right back at you. Let's keep playing these nice generalization games....

 

[Trente]

Again, your arguments are nice in theory, but not in practice. Vatican has a backing of the entire christian world, it is the spiritual center of it. I guess you were trying to find "a state based on one religion" as Israel and the best you came up with, was Vatican. actually if jews were to come against the POPE in Vatican, it will bring more flames to the tension between both religions and christians will surly come up with anti-semite accusations to through at the jews.

 

[Trente]

Originally posted by: CWRMadcat

Originally posted by: Trente
Your words are pretty; they hold nothing in real life, though. the fact is that many anti-semitic are using the "I'm just being anti-Israeli" shield too much.

And likewise, the fact is that tons of jewish people like to scream pretty sound bytes like "holocaust" and "persecution" and "anti-semite" in order to silence people who disagree with Israeli policy. Your same twisted logic can be thrown right back at you. Let's keep playing these nice generalization games....

Yes, because it is hard to understand people objecting Israel's extreme restraint with palestinian issue and not call them anit-semite. I want to see your country subjected to terror like Israel, faced with enemies all over the place and around, and yet deal with it the way Israel does. my bet is that if the US was in Israel's position, the Palestinians would have been destroyed years ago.

 

[CWRMadcat]

Originally posted by: Trente

Originally posted by: CWRMadcat

Originally posted by: Trente
Your words are pretty; they hold nothing in real life, though. the fact is that many anti-semitic are using the "I'm just being anti-Israeli" shield too much.

And likewise, the fact is that tons of jewish people like to scream pretty sound bytes like "holocaust" and "persecution" and "anti-semite" in order to silence people who disagree with Israeli policy. Your same twisted logic can be thrown right back at you. Let's keep playing these nice generalization games....

Yes, because it is hard to understand people objecting Israel's extreme restraint with palestinian issue and not call them anit-semite. I want to see your country subjected to terror like Israel, faced with enemies all over the place and around, and yet deal with it the way Israel does. my bet is that if the US was in Israel's position, the Palestinians would have been destroyed years ago.

The same terror that Israeli's are subjected to can likewise be applied to Palestinians. You seem to forget that the creation is Israel was and still isn't very popular because it was basically just forced on the indigenous population. Do you expect the displaced to shower the Israelis with flowers and gifts? Of course not, and the series of wars that ensued were proof of it. Seeing as how the Israeli's did win the wars, I'm of the opinion that Israel earned its right to exist, since pretty much every other nation in this world has been founded on that same premise, in one way or another. Put simply, Israel isn't being "subjected" to anything. The Jewish people had dreams of having their own country. Well they got it, along with all the extra baggage attached to it. Just because there were consequences doesn't automatically make Israel some kind of victim. That doesn't legitimize the attacks made on Israel, but it provides an important context that's all too often overlooked in favor of just calling arab militants "terrorists."

But I don't intend on diverting the point of this into some Palestinian/Israeli issue, as its already been talked to death. Still though, disagreement with Israeli policy is certainly not anti-semitic, as you seem to claim. Am I a jew hater because I think massive demolition of palestinian homes and targetted killings (along with the civilians who usually die during the attack) are not constructive solutions to the problem?

Call me anti-semitic if it helps you sleep better at night though. /shrug.

 

[Trente]

Israel IS the victim here, but you fail to grasp that. bad for you, I guess.

 

[Klixxer]

Originally posted by: Genx87

Why? He's right. Israel is a theological regime with some very radical ideas and a war criminal as their leader.

Isreal is a representative democracy like the United States.

And what world court convicted Sharon of war crimes?

Israel is STILL a theological regime, you can try to deny it but as long as the entire nations existance is based on religion it is STILL a theological regime.

What world court has convicted Milosevich? Do you consider him a war criminal?

 

[Trente]

Israel is STILL a theological regime, you can try to deny it but as long as the entire nations existance is based on religion it is STILL a theological regime.

Then it should STAY that way, otherwise, its entire concept is worthless.

 

[Klixxer]

Originally posted by: Genx87

Israel is supported by US despite being in the middle of a serious conflict, the US has used it's veto to make sure that several resolutions (all resolutions in fact that condemns Israels actions) have been cancelled.

The reason for this is because all the resolutions only condem one side of the war. The US wants the resolutions to include condeming suicide bombers. Why is that so hard for the UN to do?

The region, the US is at war in the region and specifically with the countries that threatens Israel the most.

And??????

The support, it isn't even comparable, US clearly supports Israel both monetary and Israels actions.

Is that why we condemed them assassinating hamas leaders? btw we support many govts monetarily. What does that really prove? The last figure I saw had 19.3 billion going to Saudi Arabia.

Now, when it comes to spying, Israel has a LOT more to gain by knowing US's foreign politics than Canada has, and if they can affect it from inside, they have truly struck gold, imagine if they could get the US to remove Iran as a threat.

And how would they manage to do such a thing? It seems to me Iran is on a crash course with the world community, not just the United States.

Canada has no natural enemies, none what so ever

Heh you dont think if we let the world know an attack on Canada is an attack on the United States they would be Canada? There are a shitload of natural resources that any large, growing country could use *cough* China * cough*

My post was in reply to a comparison between Canada and Israel, your reply deals with the individual matters instead of the comparison to Canada so it's not a reply to my intended message.

1. Resolutions involving UN member nations, last i checked there were no Palestinian nation. If there was you can bet your ASS that there would have been resolutions against the Palestinians use of terror, this is exactly what i meant when i said that two wrongs does not make one right, there is nothing wrong with critizising either side and they BOTH deserve a LOT of critizism.

2. AND if you had understood what my reply was about you would have understood that that was in reply to the differances between Canada and Israel.

3. The comparison was between Canada and Israel. A fairer comparison would be between SA and Israel perhaps but that would make you and people like you blow a gasket.

4. So you are saying that if Israel could affect the US's ME policies it is no biggie? Hmmm, are you being sarcastic?

5. It is still about the differences between Canada and Israel, not what could be if the world wasn't the way it is.

 

[Klixxer]

Originally posted by: Trente

Originally posted by: Klixxer

Originally posted by: Trente
o.k. then, spell it yourself and we'll see...

BTW, did you know that it actually means: "kol oivayich yitrachaku mimech", not what everyone thinks!

"Meharsaich umachrivaich mimech yetzeu"

hmmm...I guess it has more biblical kinda sound to it. my way of spelling is how you say it on the street...😛

Doesn't matter really, i knew what you meant when i read it. 😉

 

[Klixxer]

Originally posted by: Trente

Originally posted by: Klixxer

Originally posted by: 0roo0roo

Originally posted by: MegaWorks

Why? He's right. Israel is a theological regime with some very radical ideas and a war criminal as their leader.

coming out from a Jew! interesting 😛

it becomres rather uninsteresting compared to irans regiem of fundamentalists who fun and train terror groups. where the isrealis have shown a love of life, the iranians have shown a love of death. using children to set off mines etc. with such suicidal regiems, the concept of mutually assured anhiliation is no deterent. if that simple concept is too hard to undersetand, well... nothing can help you.

All true and i don't think anyone is condoning these actions either, at least i am not, i just wanted to state that when it comes to theological regimes with radical ideas Israel has no room to say anything about just that matter.

It can be discussed it Israel has shown a love for ALL life though, i don't think it is wrong to critizise Israel for their wrongdoings but naturally it does not excuse others wrongdoings either.

What i find is that so many get so very defensive and point at others doing the same thing or worse things, to me that doesn't matter because two wrongs does not make one right.

Israel has enough haters in the world (and in these boards) without you trying to focus on it's so called "negatives". It is the states around it that SHOULD be subjected to so much criticism! Jews have nowhere else to live witout being persecuted because of their religion, but Israel. this state has fought very, VERY hard to exist up until know. many Jews lost their lives in the process of making dreams a reality and damned we are if we do not keep Israel alive and kicking! (else that "pasuk" will turn out to be correct...)

I think that is wrong. If you are not prepared to see the mistakes on one side you should not say anything about the other either, to blindly support one side while forgetting the other is counterproductive and will only lead towards more hatred.

I have never been persecuted because of my heritage or my religion here in Germany. I know there are more Jews here from UK and US who never have been persecuted either.

I don't think anyone is questioning Israels right to exist, just actions that are wrong and one sided support.

 

[Klixxer]

Originally posted by: Trente

Israel is STILL a theological regime, you can try to deny it but as long as the entire nations existance is based on religion it is STILL a theological regime.

Then it should STAY that way, otherwise, its entire concept is worthless.

You won't see me disagreeing with that.

However, for someone to state that other nations are theological regimes while calling people idiot for making the remark that so is Israel is strange if you actually know it is true.

 

[Klixxer]

Originally posted by: Trente
Israel IS the victim here, but you fail to grasp that. bad for you, I guess.

No, Israel is one of the victims here, not the only one.

 

[Klixxer]

Originally posted by: Infohawk

Originally posted by: Klixxer

Originally posted by: Trente

Originally posted by: MegaWorks

Why? He's right. Israel is a theological regime with some very radical ideas and a war criminal as their leader.

coming out from a Jew! interesting 😛

In the bible it says: "meharsaich uo mehuravaich - mimech yetzo."

Isaiah 49:17 but i find your spelling odd.

I don't find it offensive, but tha could be because i do not believe in it.

What does it mean Klixxer?

Isaiah 49: 17: "Your builders hurry more than your destroyers, and those who made you waste will go forth from you"

But the interpretation is that i am the destroyer that has left (turned my back on) Israel and Trente is the builder who will defend Israel. Both the destroyer and the builder are Jews.

 

[Trente]

Originally posted by: Klixxer

Originally posted by: Trente

Israel is STILL a theological regime, you can try to deny it but as long as the entire nations existance is based on religion it is STILL a theological regime.

Then it should STAY that way, otherwise, its entire concept is worthless.

You won't see me disagreeing with that.

However, for someone to state that other nations are theological regimes while calling people idiot for making the remark that so is Israel is strange if you actually know it is true.

a theological regime does not apply directly that it is a dictatorship. If it was theological as it is in Iran, then you wouldn't have seen girls walking with less and less clothing on, you would not see meet served with milk anywhere and you'd also not see someone going around without a "kippa". but these sites are common in Israel. if it were in Iran, well, people would be hanged up on the streets infront of everyone else to see...

this is the difference between a so-called theological regime that forms a society based on a common religion, to a true theological regime that forces you to act as was written in some 1000 years old book.

Jews built a country because they wanted a place where they can assure their existance, not because they wanted to follow all the "mitzvot" in the bible. people would be marching in the streets protesting had this been the case...

I have never been persecuted because of my heritage or my religion here in Germany.

three words: Rudolf Hess, Berlin, March.

 

[Bumrush99]

Originally posted by: Infohawk

Originally posted by: Red Dawn

Originally posted by: Infohawk
Are they planning to attack another US ship in the Med?

Are you planning to continue to troll this thread? Whether you agree with Israel's position regarding the Palestieans, their being able to monitor Iran, especially with Irans knowledge of the fact, acts as a deterrent against Iran from doing something extremely provacative or reckless.

I hope you feel that Iran has the same right to monitor Israel? Maybe Iran can have a nuke too, that would even things up.

Maybe the Patriots should give up Tom Brady to even things up this year in football.
The Yankees should trade their entire team to even things up in baseball.
America should abandon all weapons, all fighter planes and all ships to even things up in Iraq.
Soldiers in Afghanistan should get rid of all special equipment, devices and high powered GPS systems to even things up.

Evening things up during a conflict is the most IDIOTIC thing I hear people such as yourself say.. Lets even things up sounds like a childlike fantasy. Let me tell you something Info, before the Israelis had any support from the US they were still devestating the far larger Arab enemies that had Soviet weapons and strategic advantages in terms of size and points of attack.

 

[Klixxer]

Originally posted by: Trente

Originally posted by: Klixxer

Originally posted by: Trente

Israel is STILL a theological regime, you can try to deny it but as long as the entire nations existance is based on religion it is STILL a theological regime.

Then it should STAY that way, otherwise, its entire concept is worthless.

You won't see me disagreeing with that.

However, for someone to state that other nations are theological regimes while calling people idiot for making the remark that so is Israel is strange if you actually know it is true.

a theological regime does not apply directly that it is a dictatorship. If it was theological as it is in Iran, then you wouldn't have seen girls walking with less and less clothing on, you would not see meet served with milk anywhere and you'd also not see someone going around without a "kippa". but these sites are common in Israel. if it were in Iran, well, people would be hanged up on the streets infront of everyone else to see...

this is the difference between a so-called theological regime that forms a society based on a common religion, to a true theological regime that forces you to act as was written in some 1000 years old book.

Jews built a country because they wanted a place where they can assure their existance, not because they wanted to follow all the "mitzvot" in the bible. people would be marching in the streets protesting had this been the case...

I have never been persecuted because of my heritage or my religion here in Germany.

three words: Rudolf Hess, Berlin, March.

1. You can't just change the word theological to fit what you want to make into your point, replace the word with religious. If you say that the regime isn't religious then you are foolish.

2. I live in Berlin and i have NEVER been discriminated against or in any way been treated differently than any other German here. In fact the only country i have ever been called anything anti-semitic in is the US.

The price you pay for a free society is that fools get to express their opinions too. Normal human beings are of course opposed to these groups, works the same everywhere.

 

[Trente]

The Israeli regime, will always be favouring jews. Israel, unlike any other nation, is for the jews, and for them only. if that makes it religious, then so be it. mind you, it does not imply, in ANY way, that the people living under its control are forced to follow strict religious rules, because they are not. if you think for a second, that Israel can allow Arab majority inside of it, and still maintain its cause, then you are utterly wrong.

 

[Klixxer]

Originally posted by: Trente
The Israeli regime, will always be favouring jews. Israel, unlike any other nation, is for the jews, and for them only. if that makes it religious, then so be it. mind you, it does not imply, in ANY way, that the people living under its control are forced to follow strict religious rules, because they are not. if you think for a second, that Israel can allow Arab majority inside of it, and still maintain its cause, then you are utterly wrong.

You do not have to educate me about Israel. 😉

I am not disputing anything of what you are saying at all neither do i believe that this it should be any different, that is not my point at all.

My point is that Israel DOES do things that are wrong and it is no wonder if it pisses people off, to be blind to that is to deny reality and that WILL create more hatred towards the Israeli cause.

 

[polm]

Originally posted by: Klixxer

Originally posted by: Trente
The Israeli regime, will always be favouring jews. Israel, unlike any other nation, is for the jews, and for them only. if that makes it religious, then so be it. mind you, it does not imply, in ANY way, that the people living under its control are forced to follow strict religious rules, because they are not. if you think for a second, that Israel can allow Arab majority inside of it, and still maintain its cause, then you are utterly wrong.

You do not have to educate me about Israel. 😉

I am not disputing anything of what you are saying at all neither do i believe that this it should be any different, that is not my point at all.

My point is that Israel DOES do things that are wrong and it is no wonder if it pisses people off, to be blind to that is to deny reality and that WILL create more hatred towards the Israeli cause.

I don't exactly understand you point Klixxer .

On one hand you say "neither do i believe that this it should be any different"

And on the other hand you say "to be blind to that is to deny reality and that WILL create more hatred towards the Israeli cause" .

What, then , do you propose Israel does to avoid more hatred, without changing anything ?

 

[Klixxer]

Originally posted by: polm

Originally posted by: Klixxer

Originally posted by: Trente
The Israeli regime, will always be favouring jews. Israel, unlike any other nation, is for the jews, and for them only. if that makes it religious, then so be it. mind you, it does not imply, in ANY way, that the people living under its control are forced to follow strict religious rules, because they are not. if you think for a second, that Israel can allow Arab majority inside of it, and still maintain its cause, then you are utterly wrong.

You do not have to educate me about Israel. 😉

I am not disputing anything of what you are saying at all neither do i believe that this it should be any different, that is not my point at all.

My point is that Israel DOES do things that are wrong and it is no wonder if it pisses people off, to be blind to that is to deny reality and that WILL create more hatred towards the Israeli cause.

I don't exactly understand you point Klixxer .

On one hand you say "neither do i believe that this it should be any different"

And on the other hand you say "to be blind to that is to deny reality and that WILL create more hatred towards the Israeli cause" .

What, then , do you propose Israel does to avoid more hatred, without changing anything ?

You have to read it as a reply to Trentes post, i didn't say that all of Israels actions were right, only the cause for Israel as a nation of Jews.

What should they do? Scrap the wall or build it on Israeli land, give up the settlements and THEN they can say "ok, now we did our part", we want peace but we need help getting there" and you can bet there wouldn't be ONE western nation that wouldn't support the Israeli cause for peace. I am for a peace keeping mission and for a Palestinian state, the Palestinians will have to deal with their own criminals or be prepared to take the consequenses of not doing so.

What needs to be done is for the world to react to the situation and see BOTH sides wrongdoings and never blindly offer only ONE side support.

Do you understand what i mean?