Israel / Gaza Thread

[KurskKnyaz]

Originally posted by: BarneyFife
This is brilliance by Israel.

Drop leaflets for people to evacuate.

The people can't go anywhere.

Come on.

They can go as far away as possible from the tunnels, rocket launcher sites, and mosques where weapons are stored.

 

[KurskKnyaz]

Originally posted by: ZzZGuy

Originally posted by: Aimster
Hamas doesn't have any advanced weapons. They are sending in men with guns to fight tanks.

I would be amazed if hamas hasn't placed hundreds of IED's already. May not be the armor penetrating quality of what you see in Iraq but I imagine it's enough to kill infantry and disable vehicles.

If not, well a stupid terrorist is better then a smart one.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v...A&feature=channel_page

they did

 

[Zebo]

Originally posted by: KurskKnyaz

Originally posted by: BarneyFife
This is brilliance by Israel.

Drop leaflets for people to evacuate.

The people can't go anywhere.

Come on.

They can go as far away as possible from the tunnels, rocket launcher sites, and mosques where weapons are stored.

Like they have a choice? wake up.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5zQc-vUL-58

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kBYtij4Q7sE

Israelis arnt even really the victims of Hamas compared to the population under Hamas rule.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eTGbP55HGi8

 

[KurskKnyaz]

Originally posted by: SandEagle
picture #2 and #4 speak for themselves: http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/in_pictures/7809755.stm

#2: incendiary phosphorous weapons against civilian populations is a violation of the Geneva Conventions
#4: compare that to the tiny Qassams. a disproportionate show of force indeed, paid for with our tax dollars

Never again, unless you're Palestinian

Why don't shit-for-brains journalists understand this: It is illegal to use white phosphorow as an incinerary weapon. It is legal to use it to light up the battle field.

You can use it; you just can't use it to burn people.

 

[KurskKnyaz]

Most Palestinians are not like that. They are secular, reasonable, and want to live.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f9IL86T6Nc8

 

[Zebo]

Originally posted by: KurskKnyaz
Most Palestinians are not like that. They are secular, reasonable, and want to live.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f9IL86T6Nc8

LOL "allah will provide god willing"
I wonder if they'll ever buy a clue their inshallah-fatalism is why they are broke and will remain broke and if it were not for an accident of geology (oil) all Arabia would be poorer than Africa.

 

[KurskKnyaz]

Originally posted by: JohnOfSheffield

Originally posted by: RichardE
Text

On Monday, Dr. Ashour was not the only official in charge. Armed Hamas militants in civilian clothes roamed the halls. Asked their function, they said it was to provide security. But there was internal bloodletting under way.

In the fourth-floor orthopedic section, a woman in her late 20s asked a militant to let her see Saleh Hajoj, her 32-year-old husband. She was turned away and left the hospital. Fifteen minutes later, Mr. Hajoj was carried out by young men pretending to transfer him to another ward. As he lay on the stretcher, he was shot in the left side of the head.

Mr. Hajoj, like five others killed at the hospital this way in 24 hours, was accused of collaboration with Israel. He had been in the central prison awaiting trial by Hamas judges; when Israel destroyed the prison on Sunday he and the others were transferred to the hospital. But their trials were short-circuited.

A crowd at the hospital showed no mercy after the shooting, which was widely observed. A man in his 30s mocked a woman expressing horror at the scene.

"This horrified you?" he shouted. "A collaborator that caused the death of many innocent and resistance fighters?"

What happened to the peace loving flower carrying Palestinian people who would never really ever want violence? These people are nothing more than animals, at least Israel along with most other countries (The US included (Putting insurgents and army in the same hospital trying to save the life of both) ) treat the enemy with more respect than these people treat a supposed traitor.

Where is the outrage here? I could just imagine the 30 threads we would fine if Israel started doing summary public executions by dragging Palestinians out of there bed to shoot them in the streets like dogs.

I am going to go ahead and say that this is bullsheit until i get any kind of evidence.

Not that i don't think Hamas wouldn't do it, hell i've seen much worse than that from people like that but this story is just a bit to neat to be true.

There is a video on you tube showing injured and dead civilians being taken to a hospital in Gaza and you wee some asshole with an AK-47 on his back right outside the door. I'm not saying he went in there to kill people, but its nice to see what measures hamas is taking to keep their fighters away from areas holding wounded civilians.

 

[KurskKnyaz]

looking for it now

 

[KurskKnyaz]

Originally posted by: smack Down

Yes, Israel is to blame for both Hizbolla and Hama, it has been shown thought history that when you invade a country and remove the government and retreat then shit will hit the fan. Of course the PA became irrelevant Israel was literately driving tanks through it. Israel will continue getting all the blame for the shit happening there until it fixes the mess it made.

No Arafat is to blame for Hamas. He turned a blind eye to their actions for decades under the premise of "my enemie's enemy is my friend." This allowed Hamas to grow militarily to the point where they became stronger than Fatah.

What made Hamas a powerful political force? Again Arafat. While Arafat stole aid money from Palestinians, Hamas build up their social infrastructure and provided many social programs. When elections came, Palestinians had this choice: vote for a party that has robbed them for 40 years or vote for a group that, without any political power, build their schools, hospitals, and social welfare system for the mostly unemployed population.

There was a cease fire, it expired, Hamas denied to renew it, and then launched a rocket barrage on Israel. That is Israel's fault too right?

Really they hate Israel, does that comes as a surprise to you? and do you really think it is because of "propaganda"?

No, Hamas has not given up its fantasy of destroying the Jewish state; all of it. They have unrealistic goals, are unwilling to compromise, and they are willing to put civilians in the line of fire in pursuit of their delusion.

One thing that should have come to light now is that Israel values the lives of Palestinians much more than Hamas does.

 

[Craig234]

Originally posted by: KurskKnyaz

Originally posted by: SandEagle
picture #2 and #4 speak for themselves: http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/in_pictures/7809755.stm

#2: incendiary phosphorous weapons against civilian populations is a violation of the Geneva Conventions
#4: compare that to the tiny Qassams. a disproportionate show of force indeed, paid for with our tax dollars

Never again, unless you're Palestinian

Why don't shit-for-brains journalists understand this: It is illegal to use white phosphorow as an incinerary weapon. It is legal to use it to light up the battle field.

You can use it; you just can't use it to burn people.

You mean like this?

 

[KurskKnyaz]

Originally posted by: Craig234

Originally posted by: KurskKnyaz

Originally posted by: SandEagle
picture #2 and #4 speak for themselves: http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/in_pictures/7809755.stm

#2: incendiary phosphorous weapons against civilian populations is a violation of the Geneva Conventions
#4: compare that to the tiny Qassams. a disproportionate show of force indeed, paid for with our tax dollars

Never again, unless you're Palestinian

Why don't shit-for-brains journalists understand this: It is illegal to use white phosphorow as an incinerary weapon. It is legal to use it to light up the battle field.

You can use it; you just can't use it to burn people.

You mean like this?

from the article:

The shell is not defined as an incendiary weapon by the Third Protocol to the Convention on Conventional Weapons because its principal use is to produce smoke to protect troops.

You can use WP to light of the battle field and, yes, sometimes people get burned. Incinerary weapon means a weapon used with the INTENTION to incinerate people. This is very simple but doesn't make for a sensational story about evil Israelis

 

[kylebisme]

Originally posted by: KurskKnyaz
No Arafat is to blame for Hamas. He turned a blind eye to their actions for decades under the premise of "my enemie's enemy is my friend."

Nah, that was Israel with that motive, helping Hamas while cracking down on the PLO:

A former senior CIA official recently told UPI that Israel?s duplicitous support for the Islamist groups that subsequently became Hamas was ?a direct attempt to divide and dilute support for a strong, secular PLO by using a competing religious alternative.?

http://www.amconmag.com/article/2007/feb/12/00017/

Originally posted by: KurskKnyaz
What made Hamas a powerful political force? Again Arafat. While Arafat stole aid money from Palestinians...

...Israel watched their divide and conquer plan work as they continued to colonize Palestinian territory.

And now we have Israel backing Fatah to bring down Hamas, the shell game goes on as cover for Israel's ongoing colonization of the West Bank.

 

[KurskKnyaz]

Because "this guy" said it doesn't mean its true. You have another source with some better references that don't include just quotes from mysterious unnamed CIA senior officials? That sounds very hard to believe and on top of that the entire article uses and quotes some very faulty logic, for example:

Starting in 1967, the Israelis began to encourage or allow the Islamists in the Gaza and West Bank areas, among the Palestinian exiled population, to flourish. The statistics are really quite staggering. In Gaza, for instance, between 1967 and 1987, when Hamas was founded, the number of mosques tripled from 200 to 600. And a lot of that come with money flowing from outside Gaza, from wealthy conservative Islamists in Saudi Arabia and elsewhere. But, of course, none of this could have happened without the Israelis casting an approving eye upon it.

...you understand why I think that source is bullshit. If everything needed Israel's approving eye there would be no mess to begin with.

oh, and mosques being built in even hundreds also sounds like someone is pulling numbers numbers out of their ass.

 

[KurskKnyaz]

...Israel watched their divide and conquer plan work as they continued to colonize Palestinian territory.

And now we have Israel backing Fatah to bring down Hamas, the shell game goes on as cover for Israel's ongoing colonization of the West Bank.

Again, the logic is flawed. I don't see how having Palestinians "divided" allows for the creation of settlements when all Palestinians unanimously oppose this? When given that Isreal was willing to give up the west bank settlements during Camp David and that it has removed all settlements from Gaza, the logic crumbles.

 

[EagleKeeper]

This thread is a consolidation of thread related to that situation.

 

[Czar]

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/7817926.stm

ICRC staff found four weak and scared children beside their mothers' bodies in houses hit by shelling in Zeitoun.

The Israeli military has not yet responded to the accusation, but said it worked closely with aid groups so that civilians could get assistance.

Meanwhile the UN said it was suspending aid operations in Gaza because of the danger to staff from Israeli attacks.

"We have suspended our operations in Gaza until the Israeli authorities can guarantee our safety and security," said Chris Gunness, spokesman for the United Nations relief agency Unwra.

"Our installations have been hit, our workers have been killed in spite of the fact that the Israeli authorities have the co-ordinates of our facilities and that all our movements are co-ordinated with the Israeli army.

"It is with great regret that Unwra has been forced to make this difficult decision."

Earlier, Unwra said one person had been killed and two injured when a fork-lift truck on a UN aid mission came under Israeli tank fire at Gaza's Erez crossing.
...

and lots more

 

[jpeyton]

Fuck Israel.

http://www.flickr.com/photos/effarania/3174047876/

http://www.flickr.com/photos/effarania/3174475568/

http://www.flickr.com/photos/effarania/3172480507/

http://www.flickr.com/photos/effarania/3173213447/

http://www.flickr.com/photos/effarania/3172480397/

http://www.flickr.com/photos/effarania/3172480107/

http://www.flickr.com/photos/effarania/3173313118/

http://www.flickr.com/photos/effarania/3169823715/

http://www.flickr.com/photos/effarania/3169823441/

http://www.flickr.com/photos/effarania/3152480956/

http://www.flickr.com/photos/effarania/3155999116/

http://www.flickr.com/photos/effarania/3155999198/

http://www.flickr.com/photos/effarania/3163126714/

http://www.flickr.com/photos/effarania/3166283147/

http://www.flickr.com/photos/effarania/3170652684/

http://www.flickr.com/photos/effarania/3173722621/

http://www.flickr.com/photos/effarania/3174559572/

http://www.flickr.com/photos/effarania/3176374291/

http://www.flickr.com/photos/effarania/3179983682/

 

[ZzZGuy]

Originally posted by: jpeyton
Fuck Israel.

http://www.flickr.com/photos/effarania/3174047876/

http://www.flickr.com/photos/effarania/3174475568/

http://www.flickr.com/photos/effarania/3172480507/

http://www.flickr.com/photos/effarania/3173213447/

http://www.flickr.com/photos/effarania/3172480397/

http://www.flickr.com/photos/effarania/3172480107/

http://www.flickr.com/photos/effarania/3173313118/

http://www.flickr.com/photos/effarania/3169823715/

http://www.flickr.com/photos/effarania/3169823441/

http://www.flickr.com/photos/effarania/3152480956/

http://www.flickr.com/photos/effarania/3155999116/

http://www.flickr.com/photos/effarania/3155999198/

http://www.flickr.com/photos/effarania/3163126714/

http://www.flickr.com/photos/effarania/3166283147/

http://www.flickr.com/photos/effarania/3170652684/

http://www.flickr.com/photos/effarania/3173722621/

http://www.flickr.com/photos/effarania/3174559572/

http://www.flickr.com/photos/effarania/3176374291/

http://www.flickr.com/photos/effarania/3179983682/

http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=a5e_1231434273

So hamas starts the latest round of fighting, uses human shields to attack the Israelis from and you place NO blame what so ever on the terrorists?

Shame on you and people like you who keep this conflict alive.

-edit- typo

 

[MotF Bane]

Originally posted by: jpeyton
Fuck Israel.

http://www.flickr.com/photos/effarania/3174047876/

http://www.flickr.com/photos/effarania/3174475568/

http://www.flickr.com/photos/effarania/3172480507/

http://www.flickr.com/photos/effarania/3173213447/

http://www.flickr.com/photos/effarania/3172480397/

http://www.flickr.com/photos/effarania/3172480107/

http://www.flickr.com/photos/effarania/3173313118/

http://www.flickr.com/photos/effarania/3169823715/

http://www.flickr.com/photos/effarania/3169823441/

http://www.flickr.com/photos/effarania/3152480956/

http://www.flickr.com/photos/effarania/3155999116/

http://www.flickr.com/photos/effarania/3155999198/

http://www.flickr.com/photos/effarania/3163126714/

http://www.flickr.com/photos/effarania/3166283147/

http://www.flickr.com/photos/effarania/3170652684/

http://www.flickr.com/photos/effarania/3173722621/

http://www.flickr.com/photos/effarania/3174559572/

http://www.flickr.com/photos/effarania/3176374291/

http://www.flickr.com/photos/effarania/3179983682/

But dead Israeli citizens aren't worth posting pictures of, are they?

 

[kylebisme]

Originally posted by: Common Courtesy
If you can not find what the truce agreement is, how can you claim / support that Israel broke the truce.

I didn't suggest anything of the sort, but you are obviously just too diluisional to realize that.

 

[ZzZGuy]

Originally posted by: Czar
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/7817926.stm

ICRC staff found four weak and scared children beside their mothers' bodies in houses hit by shelling in Zeitoun.

The Israeli military has not yet responded to the accusation, but said it worked closely with aid groups so that civilians could get assistance.

Meanwhile the UN said it was suspending aid operations in Gaza because of the danger to staff from Israeli attacks.

"We have suspended our operations in Gaza until the Israeli authorities can guarantee our safety and security," said Chris Gunness, spokesman for the United Nations relief agency Unwra.

"Our installations have been hit, our workers have been killed in spite of the fact that the Israeli authorities have the co-ordinates of our facilities and that all our movements are co-ordinated with the Israeli army.

"It is with great regret that Unwra has been forced to make this difficult decision."

Earlier, Unwra said one person had been killed and two injured when a fork-lift truck on a UN aid mission came under Israeli tank fire at Gaza's Erez crossing.
...

and lots more

I would like to hear the Israeli side of the shooting by a tank of the UN truck. Was it a trigger happy solder(s) (3/4 people in a tank), was hamas using similar trucks to try and avoid getting hit, did the driver act in a manner that caused the tank to believe it was a VBIED (vehicle born improvised explosive device), was it actually a genuine UN truck?

After all, the UN school that had 3 shells (motor?) land near it killing ~40 people turned out to have had hamas terrorists launching motors of their own right next to it (i've heard reports of them firing from within it) at Israeli forces, back up by pali eye witnesses.

Also learned of Israel shelling near a UN warehouse (or a company the UN contracted) parking lot killing 3 workers, I have no details on this.

But as so many people love to say, it is a very densely populated area that hamas is fighting from.

 

[SamurAchzar]

Hamas itself boobey traped entire streets, including gas stations, inside Gaza. They're showing exactly zero regard to the lives of their own people. Why should Israel act differently?

On top of that, they are also saying they are rejecting the Egypt-sponsored cease-fire suggestion. I guess they don't feel as nearly as bad about the fighting as the posters here. Keep on going, IDF.

 

[kylebisme]

Originally posted by: KurskKnyaz

Originally posted by: TheSnowman

Originally posted by: KurskKnyaz
No Arafat is to blame for Hamas. He turned a blind eye to their actions for decades under the premise of "my enemie's enemy is my friend."

Nah, that was Israel with that motive, helping Hamas while cracking down on the PLO:

A former senior CIA official recently told UPI that Israel?s duplicitous support for the Islamist groups that subsequently became Hamas was ?a direct attempt to divide and dilute support for a strong, secular PLO by using a competing religious alternative.?

http://www.amconmag.com/article/2007/feb/12/00017/

Originally posted by: KurskKnyaz
What made Hamas a powerful political force? Again Arafat. While Arafat stole aid money from Palestinians...

...Israel watched their divide and conquer plan work as they continued to colonize Palestinian territory.

And now we have Israel backing Fatah to bring down Hamas, the shell game goes on as cover for Israel's ongoing colonization of the West Bank.

Because "this guy" said it doesn't mean its true. You have another source with some better references that don't include just quotes from mysterious unnamed CIA senior officials? That sounds very hard to believe and on top of that the entire article uses and quotes some very faulty logic, for example:

Starting in 1967, the Israelis began to encourage or allow the Islamists in the Gaza and West Bank areas, among the Palestinian exiled population, to flourish. The statistics are really quite staggering. In Gaza, for instance, between 1967 and 1987, when Hamas was founded, the number of mosques tripled from 200 to 600. And a lot of that come with money flowing from outside Gaza, from wealthy conservative Islamists in Saudi Arabia and elsewhere. But, of course, none of this could have happened without the Israelis casting an approving eye upon it.

...you understand why I think that source is bullshit. If everything needed Israel's approving eye there would be no mess to begin with.

oh, and mosques being built in even hundreds also sounds like someone is pulling numbers numbers out of their ass.

...Israel watched their divide and conquer plan work as they continued to colonize Palestinian territory.

And now we have Israel backing Fatah to bring down Hamas, the shell game goes on as cover for Israel's ongoing colonization of the West Bank.

Again, the logic is flawed. I don't see how having Palestinians "divided" allows for the creation of settlements when all Palestinians unanimously oppose this? When given that Isreal was willing to give up the west bank settlements during Camp David and that it has removed all settlements from Gaza, the logic crumbles.

Israel only offered to give up a fraction of the settlements at Camp David, leaving the West Bank in a permanent state of subjugation:

http://www.gush-shalom.org/media/barak_eng.swf

And dividing Palestinian allowed them to continue expanding their coloziation of the West Bank while popular opinion says focused on Palestinian infighting and attacks on Israel.

As for more sources, obviously Israels part in helping Hamas rise to power isn't something they advertise, but there are plenty more out there if you care to look rather than digging your head in the sand. Here is one for you though:

Olmert also told the committee that it was during Netanyahu who had given life to Hamas during his tenure as prime minister.

"Netanyahu established Hamas, gave it life, freed Sheikh Yassin and gave him the option to blossom," he said, adding that the current political in the Palestinian Authority was "because of the nonsense that was done while Netanyahu was prime minister."

http://news.haaretz.co.il/hase...&dyn_server=172.20.5.5

On, and of course everying on the Palestinian territories needs Israel's approving eye, at least anything so much as building mosques, Israel has kept the place under strict millitary occupation for four decades now.

 

[ZzZGuy]

Originally posted by: SamurAchzar
Hamas itself boobey traped entire streets, including gas stations, inside Gaza. They're showing exactly zero regard to the lives of their own people. Why should Israel act differently?

On top of that, they are also saying they are rejecting the Egypt-sponsored cease-fire suggestion. I guess they don't feel as nearly as bad about the fighting as the posters here. Keep on going, IDF.

Because they are not primitive savages with internet access (that may you are referring too appears to have come from google earth).

It does mean though that Israel is justified to attack military targets that will result in high number of civilian causalities. The alternative is to let this tactic work and have hamas gunmen strap babies to their backs & children surround rocket launchers, leaving Israel unable to defend itself.

Those who I'm sure will be upset with my statement, would you let someone walk into your home and murder your family because he is holding a baby?

Israel has shown more restraint then almost any other nation would, especially the USA, in the face of terror attacks on their country when they can actually see who is doing it before/during/after the attack (UAV's are a lovely thing). If you disagree with this statement, please tell me what you would do if your country was under very similar circumstances or I will be quietly laughing at you, btw "israel is wrong" doesn't count as a response.

 

[kylebisme]

Originally posted by: ZzZGuy
If you disagree with this statement, please tell me what you would do if your country was under very similar circumstances or I will be quietly laughing at you, btw "israel is wrong" doesn't count as a response.

I'd stop the active denial of Palestine's right to exist as an independent nation, which Israel continues to perpetuate though their ongoing colonization of Palestinian land.

Then, I'd go after whatever terrorists continue to attack Israel, with a respectable effort towards avoiding civilian casualties.