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Islamic world must have nuclear weapons, says Iran

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Ask yourself why china, Russia and the US need nukes. then maybe you can figure out why Israel may feel the need.

Yet, at this point; you can not point to the fact they have them; only speculation
 
Ask yourself why china, Russia and the US need nukes. then maybe you can figure out why Israel may feel the need.

Yet, at this point; you can not point to the fact they have them; only speculation
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If the US, China, Russia, and Israel feel the need for nukes, what is then wrong with Iran feeling the needs for nukes?

Then EK, your argument becomes even weirder. Because there is zero evidence that Iran has any Uranium enriched beyond 27%, which is far short of the 95% point needed to build one single bomb. If you, EK, want to only site sheer speculation.

Of course, if IAEA inspectors visit the Israeli reactor at Dismona, that speculation will soon be over.
 
Isreal does not need to allow the inspectors

Iran does.

You are the one making the argument that Israel does not have a need for nuclear weapons.

Then you come back in the same post claiming that the ME is getting hostile to Israel.

As has been shown before, those that are willing to be killed to destroy Israel do not care that they die.
It is the threat of Israel's retaliation that stops nation states for going along with such notions.

As long as Israel exists, there will be hatred against it and because of it. Just like as long as the US exists, there will be hatred against it. Nothing can be done to stop it; only prevent it from becoming a nasty infection.
 
Isreal does not need to allow the inspectors

Iran does.

You are the one making the argument that Israel does not have a need for nuclear weapons.

Then you come back in the same post claiming that the ME is getting hostile to Israel.

As has been shown before, those that are willing to be killed to destroy Israel do not care that they die.
It is the threat of Israel's retaliation that stops nation states for going along with such notions.

As long as Israel exists, there will be hatred against it and because of it. Just like as long as the US exists, there will be hatred against it. Nothing can be done to stop it; only prevent it from becoming a nasty infection.
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Sorry EK, IMHO, your argument is bogus from start to finish.

You start by stating, "Isreal does not need to allow the inspectors

Iran does." As I ask why do you have that double standard. If we demand the right to inspect Iran, why should not Israel be subject to that same scrutiny?

Then you say, "As has been shown before, those that are willing to be killed to destroy Israel do not care that they die.
It is the threat of Israel's retaliation that stops nation states for going along with such notions." Which is simply another way of saying might makes right. But it becomes very hard to believe that Israel is a very moral nation given its immoral behavior to both its Arab Neighbors and the Palestinian people it treats with total disdain as they don't even have third class citizenship in the land of their birth. Then I can also note that are countless countries across the globe, who do not require large military's to put the fer of God into the neighbors to survive. As they simply operate under the golden rule, and if they treat each other with mutual respect, no military action is ever needed.

Then you come back and say, "As long as Israel exists, there will be hatred against it and because of it. Just like as long as the US exists, there will be hatred against it. Nothing can be done to stop it; only prevent it from becoming a nasty infection.[/QUOTE]"

Which is certainly wrong in the case of Israel, as long as Israel treats their neighbors and the Palestinian people with contempt, injustice, and total hostility, Israel will never become an accepted part of the Mid-east. If Israel wants to become an accepted part of the Mid-east, Israel has much technical expertise to offer the mid-east if its willing to lose its total hostility.

As for the USA, for its first 150 years or so, no one hated the USA or tried to attack it, and that was trues even after WW1 and WW2. But now its not as true now because the USA manages to push too many nations around and it backfires on the USA far too often.

In short EK, I believe you advocate the policies that will guarantee the destruction of Israel in the longer term.
 
snip

Which is certainly wrong in the case of Israel, as long as Israel treats their neighbors and the Palestinian people with contempt, injustice, and total hostility, Israel will never become an accepted part of the Mid-east. If Israel wants to become an accepted part of the Mid-east, Israel has much technical expertise to offer the mid-east if its willing to lose its total hostility.

snip

Errr...exactly why would they do this??? Not one of the countries that surrounds it, or even in the entire region, has anything but those same things for Israel since Israel was present day Israel (heck, past Israel even).

Being nice gets Israel what? If Israel was smart, they'd have just butchered all the "Palestinians" way back before the Internet/global media was prevalent and back when the civilized world wasn't as whipped as it is now. By now they'd be completely done with their ongoing problem and much better off. I'm sure every day, their Leadership mourns that...

Chuck
 
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Sorry EK, IMHO, your argument is bogus from start to finish.

You start by stating, "Isreal does not need to allow the inspectors

Iran does." As I ask why do you have that double standard. If we demand the right to inspect Iran, why should not Israel be subject to that same scrutiny?

This is easy. Isreal is not a signatory to the TREATY ON THE NON-PROLIFERATION OF NUCLEAR WEAPONS (NPT) while Iran is. As such, Iran MUST allow inspections and Israel does not.

It really is that simple. If Iran wants to be rid of inspectors for good, they simply need to withdraw their signature and remove themselves from the NPT.
 
Errr...exactly why would they do this??? Not one of the countries that surrounds it, or even in the entire region, has anything but those same things for Israel since Israel was present day Israel (heck, past Israel even).

Being nice gets Israel what? If Israel was smart, they'd have just butchered all the "Palestinians" way back before the Internet/global media was prevalent and back when the civilized world wasn't as whipped as it is now. By now they'd be completely done with their ongoing problem and much better off. I'm sure every day, their Leadership mourns that...

Chuck


They should have at least destroyed the Abomination that is called the Dome of the Rock and its mosque. Get the temple to a false god off the Temple Mount.
 
I have no idea what that is and I really don't care. I think all historical landmarks should be preserved everywhere, for their historical value alone. You'd have to have a heck of a reason to get rid of one.

That being said, I'm actually on the other side of the Israel position. I see zero logical reason Jews needed their own country other than no one wanted them in theirs after WWII. We made "our" "problem" someone elses purely because we could, and didn't care what the natives thought. And because of that, they get to suffer. Disgusting.
 
Errr...exactly why would they do this??? Not one of the countries that surrounds it, or even in the entire region, has anything but those same things for Israel since Israel was present day Israel (heck, past Israel even).

Being nice gets Israel what? If Israel was smart, they'd have just butchered all the "Palestinians" way back before the Internet/global media was prevalent and back when the civilized world wasn't as whipped as it is now. By now they'd be completely done with their ongoing problem and much better off. I'm sure every day, their Leadership mourns that...

Chuck

Well, they'd have a tough time running their holocaust guilt trip on the ROTW, for starters.
 
They should have at least destroyed the Abomination that is called the Dome of the Rock and its mosque. Get the temple to a false god off the Temple Mount.

It's the same God, the God of Abraham. In Islam, the Bible is nearly as important as the Koran. Jews and Christians are people of the Book, enjoy a much higher status than idolators.
 
Well, they'd have a tough time running their holocaust guilt trip on the ROTW, for starters.
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Not to disagree with you in any way Jhhnn, but I have no idea of what you mean by ROTW?
 
First let me say I haven't read any previous replies, or even the full OP.

I just want to say that I do not feel the Islamic world is mature enough to handle nuclear weapons. Their house is insufficiently in order.

I do not care for religion of any stripe, but at least Christianity has been beaten into submission and forced to take it's proper place in the background of western civilization. Islam is Christianity several hundred years ago, prior to any of this watering down it so desperately needs.

I do not trust the decisions made by people who believe in end times being prophesied, inevitable, desirable, or good.

I do not trust people who believe in the supernatural to control nuclear weapons. Yes I realize most people in the US who are in control of nuclear weapons assert belief in the supernatural, but the people in the Islamic world really believe this stuff. Christians in the west merely claim to believe it, in most cases they no longer really do. Going through the motions.
 
First let me say I haven't read any previous replies, or even the full OP.

I just want to say that I do not feel the Islamic world is mature enough to handle nuclear weapons. Their house is insufficiently in order.

I do not care for religion of any stripe, but at least Christianity has been beaten into submission and forced to take it's proper place in the background of western civilization. Islam is Christianity several hundred years ago, prior to any of this watering down it so desperately needs.

I do not trust the decisions made by people who believe in end times being prophesied, inevitable, desirable, or good.

I do not trust people who believe in the supernatural to control nuclear weapons. Yes I realize most people in the US who are in control of nuclear weapons assert belief in the supernatural, but the people in the Islamic world really believe this stuff. Christians in the west merely claim to believe it, in most cases they no longer really do. Going through the motions.

"I'm participating in a discussion thread. I would like you to know that I haven't read anything that any of you have written or even what this thread is about. With that in mind, I would like all of you to read what I have to say."
 
Isreal does not need to allow the inspectors

Iran does.

You are the one making the argument that Israel does not have a need for nuclear weapons.

Then you come back in the same post claiming that the ME is getting hostile to Israel.

As has been shown before, those that are willing to be killed to destroy Israel do not care that they die.
It is the threat of Israel's retaliation that stops nation states for going along with such notions.

As long as Israel exists, there will be hatred against it and because of it. Just like as long as the US exists, there will be hatred against it. Nothing can be done to stop it; only prevent it from becoming a nasty infection.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Sorry EK, IMHO, your argument is bogus from start to finish.

You start by stating, "Isreal does not need to allow the inspectors

Iran does." As I ask why do you have that double standard. If we demand the right to inspect Iran, why should not Israel be subject to that same scrutiny?
Iran signed the NPT, Israel did not. That is the difference. Which is the reasons that the IAEA is there in the first place. without having your ducks in order, you again look foolish.

Then you say, "As has been shown before, those that are willing to be killed to destroy Israel do not care that they die.
It is the threat of Israel's retaliation that stops nation states for going along with such notions." Which is simply another way of saying might makes right. But it becomes very hard to believe that Israel is a very moral nation given its immoral behavior to both its Arab Neighbors and the Palestinian people it treats with total disdain as they don't even have third class citizenship in the land of their birth.
Israel has no obligation to it's Arab neighbors except in your mind. they are a different state, have no obligations to Israel and tolerate attacks from their territory against Israel. Yet you feel that Israel needs to be moral to them?
The Palestinians do not factor into the equation except as an excuse by others. the Palestinians have shown that they do not want Israel around; Israel is willing to reciprocate. Separate issue unless you are intending on derailment.
Then I can also note that are countless countries across the globe, who do not require large military's to put the fer of God into the neighbors to survive. As they simply operate under the golden rule, and if they treat each other with mutual respect, no military action is ever needed.

Without Israel's military, she would be attacked by hostile states again. The Arabs seem to have a hard time learning their lessons and keeping their promises of treaties. the military has also been shown to be needed to protect Israeli citizens abroad from hostile Arab forces

You want the golden rule; tell that to Gaza; Hamas has control over ordnance being lobbed from there continually. Ask why the UN has to be sitting on the Golan and the Lebanese borders. Ask why the wall had to be built along the West Bank?

Then you come back and say, "As long as Israel exists, there will be hatred against it and because of it. Just like as long as the US exists, there will be hatred against it. Nothing can be done to stop it; only prevent it from becoming a nasty infection.["

Which is certainly wrong in the case of Israel, as long as Israel treats their neighbors and the Palestinian people with contempt, injustice, and total hostility, Israel will never become an accepted part of the Mid-east. If Israel wants to become an accepted part of the Mid-east, Israel has much technical expertise to offer the mid-east if its willing to lose its total hostility.

The hostility also exists from its neighbors because Israel exists. Israel has been willing to work with Turkey when asked. The Arab states refuse to ask for Israel's help; they embargo anyone that deals with Israel. They reject anyone entering their country that have an Israel stamp on the passport.

As for the USA, for its first 150 years or so, no one hated the USA or tried to attack it, and that was trues even after WW1 and WW2. But now its not as true now because the USA manages to push too many nations around and it backfires on the USA far too often.

In short EK, I believe you advocate the policies that will guarantee the destruction of Israel in the longer term.

Destruction of arguments in bold
 
It's the same God, the God of Abraham. In Islam, the Bible is nearly as important as the Koran. Jews and Christians are people of the Book, enjoy a much higher status than idolators.

Cannot be the same god - and here is why (given from the point of view of the three Abrahamic religions):

Judaism - Mohammed is a false prophet and Jesus neither is the Messiah nor G-d come to Earth. The Koran and the New Testament are not holy books and were not inspired by G-d.

Christianity - Mohammed is a false prophet. Jesus is the Messiah and God come to Earth. The Koran is not a holy book and was not inspired by God. The New Testament is a holy book and was inspired by God.

Islam - Mohammed is a true prophet. Jesus neither is the Messiah nor was Allah come to Earth. The Torah and the New Testament are not holy books - they have been corrupted and cannot be used. The Quran is a holy book and was inspired by Allah.

Since it is well known that God does not lie, all three religions cannot be inspired by the same god. For example, either Jesus IS the Messiah and God come to Earth or He is not. It cannot be both. Islam actually states that Jesus was just a great prophet and that He will return - and when He does He will proclaim "Allah is God and Mohammed is His Prophet."

The only people who can logically claim the god of all three are the same are the Muslims, for they say mankind perverted the previous holy books (through accident and on purpose), so Allah sent us what was the original book, the Quran, a second time. No other group can say the god of each is the same god without believing Islam has it right.

Do you believe Islam has it right? If not, then how can you say the three gods are the same god?
 
Yeh, that's why Judaism, Christianity & Islam are referred to as Abrahamic religions.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abrahamic_religions


They are called the Abrahamic Religions because they were founded by the offspring of Abraham - either through Isaac or Ishmael. Had you read your own link, you would understand this:

All the major Abrahamic religions claim a direct lineage to Abraham.
  • Abraham is recorded in the Torah as the ancestor of the Israelites through his son Isaac, born to Sarah through a promise made in Genesis.[Gen. 17:16][10] All variants of Judaism through the early 20th century (prophetic, rabbinic, reform, and conservative) were founded by Israelite descendants.
  • The basic text of Christianity is the Bible, the first part of which, the Protestant Old Testament, leading to the same ancestry claim as above. The Catholic Old Testament does include a few books that neither the Protestants or the Orthodox Jews felt were inspired and more historical in nature.
  • It is the Islamic tradition that Muhammad, as an Arab, is descended from Abraham's son Ishmael. Jewish tradition also equates the descendants of Ishmael, Ishmaelites, with Arabs, as the descendants of Isaac by Jacob, who was also later known as Israel, are the Israelites.[11]
 
Cannot be the same god - and here is why (given from the point of view of the three Abrahamic religions):

Judaism - Mohammed is a false prophet and Jesus neither is the Messiah nor G-d come to Earth. The Koran and the New Testament are not holy books and were not inspired by G-d.

Christianity - Mohammed is a false prophet. Jesus is the Messiah and God come to Earth. The Koran is not a holy book and was not inspired by God. The New Testament is a holy book and was inspired by God.

Islam - Mohammed is a true prophet. Jesus neither is the Messiah nor was Allah come to Earth. The Torah and the New Testament are not holy books - they have been corrupted and cannot be used. The Quran is a holy book and was inspired by Allah.

Since it is well known that God does not lie, all three religions cannot be inspired by the same god. For example, either Jesus IS the Messiah and God come to Earth or He is not. It cannot be both. Islam actually states that Jesus was just a great prophet and that He will return - and when He does He will proclaim "Allah is God and Mohammed is His Prophet."

The only people who can logically claim the god of all three are the same are the Muslims, for they say mankind perverted the previous holy books (through accident and on purpose), so Allah sent us what was the original book, the Quran, a second time. No other group can say the god of each is the same god without believing Islam has it right.

Do you believe Islam has it right? If not, then how can you say the three gods are the same god?

So basically none of these 3 get it right.
 
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