Islamic world must have nuclear weapons, says Iran

[richaron]

He then made a positive statement that this was caused by a specific factor, aka stupidity. If his contention of stupidity is true, the only way he can know that is through knowing a better way.

He said there was a better way. He didn't claim what it was.

Disproving by obvious failure. Occam's razor implies a better response, it doesn't stipulate said response.

 

[fskimospy]

He said there was a better way. He didn't claim what it was.

Disproving by obvious failure. Occam's razor implies a better response, it doesn't stipulate said response.

Yes he did, implicitly. He said the failure was caused by stupidity. That necessarily means that were we to have non stupid commanders we would have a better outcome. The only way that could occur would be for the new, non-stupid person to do things differently. Ie:a better way.
The only way he could know that is by knowing the better way.
You appear to be combining the disproving of our current way with his 'stupid' comment. They are two different things.

 

[fskimospy]

Btw, my whole point was that his accusation of stupidity was groundless and based in ignorance. I know he doesn't know a better way.

 

[richaron]

OK buddy.

I can't see any sound ideas here. Perhaps the idea is not to convince people like me...

 

[Hayabusa Rider]

OK buddy.

I can't see any sound ideas here. Perhaps the idea is not to convince people like me...

If you are looking for ideas, I can make a suggestion or two, which for all I know are being done.

The major problem is that our official knowledge of what is happening in Iran is limited. The key word is "official" because if we have assets in place we may know considerably more than can be said. It's unwise to tip one's hand especially when there are negotiations ongoing. Besides, anyone who is helping us is risking their lives and those of their families. We also have technical advantages which allow constant monitoring of suspected sites, and there is a good chance that we have spaced based ground penetrating radar. Not that we can peer a hundred meters down, but that would help locate access points to deep underground facilities.

We also need to keep applying pressure on the regime, marginalizing them as needed, but with a carrot as well. Just the stick won't work.

Lastly (and probably most controversial) is the identification and covert support of pro-western factions. I'm not suggesting we pull an Operation Ajax, but there are elements within Iran which are more inclined to a more democratic society and if we have information that is useful to them we could share. This must be a limited operation because what we do not need is another overt overthrow attempt or implying we'll back up a revolt and then not do so. One day there may be an opportunity for normalization. Now would be a good time to plant seeds.

 

[kylebisme]

This article is wrought with BS. It's all based on the claim that "Official Iranian media outlets" published a commentary by calling for nukes, yet the only places it links to carry the commentary are its author's blog and Fars News Agency. Granted, the article claims the latter "is run by the Revolutionary Guards", their about page says they are "Iran's leading independent news agency", and the most I've been able to find elsewhere is the claim that they are "affiliated with the Revolutionary Guard Corps" on the Wiki Page for them, apparently sorced from the WSJ, but possible confirmation is behind a pay wall. So where's the actual ""Official Iranian media outlets" carrying this commentary?

Furthermore, "The essay’s author, Alireza Forghani, is the former governor of southern Iran’s Kish Province and an analyst and a strategy specialist in the camp of the supreme leader, Ayatollah Ali Khamenei", which makes him sound like quite a notable figure, Yet Googling around for confirmation of these claims turns up nothing to support the former governor bit and the origin of the "an analyst and a strategy specialist" seems to be this Word Net Daily article by Reza Kahlili, the same name on the The Daily Caller article in the OP. I say name rather than person, because he is a dubious character, as the Washington Post explains.

There's the fact running the blog post Google translate shows it opens with the disclaimer "This article is the personal opinion of its author and as Independent analyst to express his personal opinion", in flagrant contradiction to the claims from the article in the OP. I'm not surprised that Tucker Carlson and former Dick Cheney adviser Neil Patel's The Daily Caller would be pushing such ridiculous propaganda, or that the usual suspects here would be cheering it on, but I'm disappoint to see Yahoo republishing the tripe. It feels like the buildup of lies which lead to the invasion of Iraq all over again.

 

[Hayabusa Rider]

This article is wrought with BS. It's all based on the claim that "Official Iranian media outlets" published a commentary by calling for nukes, yet the only places it links to carry the commentary are its author's blog and Fars News Agency. Granted, the article claims the latter "is run by the Revolutionary Guards", their about page says they are "Iran's leading independent news agency", and the most I've been able to find elsewhere is the claim that they are "affiliated with the Revolutionary Guard Corps" on the Wiki Page for them, apparently sorced from the WSJ, but possible confirmation is behind a pay wall. So where's the actual ""Official Iranian media outlets" carrying this commentary?

Furthermore, "The essay’s author, Alireza Forghani, is the former governor of southern Iran’s Kish Province and an analyst and a strategy specialist in the camp of the supreme leader, Ayatollah Ali Khamenei", which makes him sound like quite a notable figure, Yet Googling around for confirmation of these claims turns up nothing to support the former governor bit and the origin of the "an analyst and a strategy specialist" seems to be this Word Net Daily article by Reza Kahlili, the same name on the The Daily Caller article in the OP. I say name rather than person, because he is a dubious character, as the Washington Post explains.

There's the fact running the blog post Google translate shows it opens with the disclaimer "This article is the personal opinion of its author and as Independent analyst to express his personal opinion", in flagrant contradiction to the claims from the article in the OP. I'm not surprised that Tucker Carlson and former Dick Cheney adviser Neil Patel's The Daily Caller would be pushing such ridiculous propaganda, or that the usual suspects here would be cheering it on, but I'm disappoint to see Yahoo republishing the tripe. It feels like the buildup of lies which lead to the invasion of Iraq all over again.

It would be hard to make a reasonable claim that FARS isn't a state affiliated news site. Nevertheless it's hard to determine the credibility of the claim directly. Hassan Firouzabadi however is a nutter of the first order and not much would surprise. Claiming that Al Qaeda is a US and Israeli construct is pretty loopy. Tehran news is pretty nutty in general anyway. When Assad is a hero and attempts to thwart his cruelty is considered criminal there's more than a few screws loose. Doesn't help Iran's credibility. Next up- UFOs are a Jewish conspiracy.

 

[Jhhnn]

From the header at the top of the original article-

First point: this essay is just the personal opinion of the author that as a critique tries to give opinion about it and has no warranty of the Iranian government for the usage and the ability to perform.

In other words, JediYoda is in his fearmongering Hasbara mode...

 

[kylebisme]

It would be hard to make a reasonable claim that FARS isn't a state affiliated news site.

I don't know enough about them to argue one way or another about what goes on behind the scenes there, but given what it says on their about page they obviously aren't officially affiliated with the state.

Claiming that Al Qaeda is a US and Israeli construct is pretty loopy.

Hillary Clinton basically admitted as much here.

 

[Jaskalas]

You are confusing the destruction of the military force and destroying facilities vs subjugating a nation and rebuilding it.

The first is military - that we have the knowledge, skills and equipment to pull off effectively.

The second requires political will, training and cooperation.
That we fail because we do not understand the people that have to be interacted with.

I'm confusing what, exactly?

It's not just our political leadership betraying our soldiers when they are given orders to suicide themselves in hostile territory for no damn good reason. You must hold the military leaders responsible as well.

I do not look kindly to our nation building efforts, for the needless coin and blood it has cost us. Iraq was won in under two months. We didn't need 36,000+ casualties. Our leaders WANTED them. Just as they would want thousands more Americans killed in Iran, when they don't have to.

 

[Oric]

This topic is meaningless, Pakistan already has nukes and yes, all countries including the Middle East should be allowed for Nuclear Fuel production. Almost all of the hype about Iran is because they are breeding their own nuclear fuel and breaking the Western Monopoly on Nuclear Power (civilian use).

 

[Lemon law]

As then Haybasusa sez, "Doesn't help Iran's credibility. Next up- UFOs are a Jewish conspiracy".

Point granted Haybasusa, it takes a rather fertile imagination to blame Israel for UFO's, but its not a big stretch to believe Israel's AIPAC and various Israeli fan clubbers on this forum for being serial liars and willing to stop at nothing to distort the truth. As Its hard to believe the Iranian top Ayatollah would change his position 180 degrees and admit Iran is only seeking a nuclear weapon.

As I believe US foreign policy in the mid-east should be demanding the entire mid-east be a nuclear weapons free zone. Meaning most of the onus should be on Israel to give up its nukes.

 

[Hayabusa Rider]

As then Haybasusa sez, "Doesn't help Iran's credibility. Next up- UFOs are a Jewish conspiracy".

Point granted Haybasusa, it takes a rather fertile imagination to blame Israel for UFO's, but its not a big stretch to believe Israel's AIPAC and various Israeli fan clubbers on this forum for being serial liars and willing to stop at nothing to distort the truth. As Its hard to believe the Iranian top Ayatollah would change his position 180 degrees and admit Iran is only seeking a nuclear weapon.

As I believe US foreign policy in the mid-east should be demanding the entire mid-east be a nuclear weapons free zone. Meaning most of the onus should be on Israel to give up its nukes.

Considering that Israel has no obligation to give them up that would be a good trick. Perhaps you can make China and Russia and the US demand they give up theirs? Israel would be attacked without their nukes and you know that.

Perhaps you don't see the UFO as being legitimate, however Assad being a victim and Al Qaeda being an American plot? Pull the other one.

 

[Hayabusa Rider]

I'm confusing what, exactly?

It's not just our political leadership betraying our soldiers when they are given orders to suicide themselves in hostile territory for no damn good reason. You must hold the military leaders responsible as well.

I do not look kindly to our nation building efforts, for the needless coin and blood it has cost us. Iraq was won in under two months. We didn't need 36,000+ casualties. Our leaders WANTED them. Just as they would want thousands more Americans killed in Iran, when they don't have to.

So from now on every military action requires sending in massive numbers of boots on the ground? Hardly. Fortunately the ones who did that in Iraq aren't around. We launched a full scale ground war in Libya? Again, hardly.

 

[piasabird]

Maybe the muslims will all wipe each other out.

 

[EagleKeeper]

Iran should be the first nuclear country we invade, destroy, and then leave to pick its own ass back up out of the stone age. Nothing could be a stronger signal against nuclear proliferation then cutting the head off the snake.

Unfortunately, given our recent past history at handling 'nation building', our leaders are too stupid to engage in military conflict. Invading Iran would result in a decade of leaving our troops parked in the streets of Tehran getting sniped at and murdered by a hostile population. I refuse to subject our soldiers to that sort of abuse. Until our military and political leadership are replaced entirely, they are not fit to invade a lemonade stand.

While my first reaction is to go kill Iran ASAP, I don't trust our only means of achieving it. Ultimately, in my own internal conflict, I must choose no action over a retarded one that needlessly bleeds this nation of coin and blood.

You are confusing the destruction of the military force and destroying facilities vs subjugating a nation and rebuilding it.

The first is military - that we have the knowledge, skills and equipment to pull off effectively.

The second requires political will, training and cooperation.
That we fail because we do not understand the people that have to be interacted with.

I'm confusing what, exactly?

It's not just our political leadership betraying our soldiers when they are given orders to suicide themselves in hostile territory for no damn good reason. You must hold the military leaders responsible as well.

I do not look kindly to our nation building efforts, for the needless coin and blood it has cost us. Iraq was won in under two months. We didn't need 36,000+ casualties. Our leaders WANTED them. Just as they would want thousands more Americans killed in Iran, when they don't have to.

Military operates UNDER the DIRECTION of the CIVILIAN leadership.

the 36K causalities that you refer to are because of the ineptness of the political leaders with respect to nation building.

• They had no real direction - just a concept.
• It was not planned for
• The proper resources were not made available
• The target structure was not willing to be remade in our image.

It was not intended on killing 36K people just because they could.

 

[EagleKeeper]

This topic is meaningless, Pakistan already has nukes and yes, all countries including the Middle East should be allowed for Nuclear Fuel production. Almost all of the hype about Iran is because they are breeding their own nuclear fuel and breaking the Western Monopoly on Nuclear Power (civilian use).

There is no concern about nuclear fuel production that may be needed for power generation/research.

The concern is about improving the fuel toward weapons grade and work on other weapons related nuclear components.

Given that Russia and China both have nuclear power; breaking the Western Monopoly does not make sense.

 

[EagleKeeper]

As then Haybasusa sez, "Doesn't help Iran's credibility. Next up- UFOs are a Jewish conspiracy".

Point granted Haybasusa, it takes a rather fertile imagination to blame Israel for UFO's, but its not a big stretch to believe Israel's AIPAC and various Israeli fan clubbers on this forum for being serial liars and willing to stop at nothing to distort the truth. As Its hard to believe the Iranian top Ayatollah would change his position 180 degrees and admit Iran is only seeking a nuclear weapon.

As I believe US foreign policy in the mid-east should be demanding the entire mid-east be a nuclear weapons free zone. Meaning most of the onus should be on Israel to give up its nukes.

Why stop at the ME.

Look at Pakistan - fairly unstable country that acts against the direct US interests. Why allow them to have nukes. They sell that technology around to other nations that are against the US interests.

 

[epidemis]

Paraphrasing: The Shia-Muslim world must have nuclear weapons!

 

[Jaskalas]

So from now on every military action requires sending in massive numbers of boots on the ground? Hardly. Fortunately the ones who did that in Iraq aren't around. We launched a full scale ground war in Libya? Again, hardly.

As I've said, it's not the invasion I have a problem with. It's the cleanup afterwards, which is entirely optional. If we left when the mission was 'accomplished' we would have saved 36,000 Americans and a trillion dollars.

You just argued a war with Iran would look more like Libya than Iraq? :hmm:
Libya had its own military start a civil war. We were as hands off as possible while still guaranteeing the outcome. I'm not convinced stopping Iran's nuclear program is in anyway similar to that scenario.

Besides, it's not necessary to gain my support. The President just has to make sure we're not wasting our soldiers after the nuclear program is destroyed and the Iranian military is defeated. Don't park our soldiers in the streets of Tehran.

 

[Abwx]

I'm not suggesting we pull an Operation Ajax, but there are elements within Iran which are more inclined to a more democratic society

Calm down with the medics..

Operation ajax was a US:UK sponsorized coup to remove
a democratrically elected government and replace it with
the Shah s dictatorship..

And you dare talking about supporting "democratic" (read : US controled)
elements in Iran ??...

Or you mean helping the terrorists that hangs by there ,
financed by US funds ala People s Mujahidins ?...

 

[EagleKeeper]

Calm down with the medics..

Operation ajax was a US:UK sponsorized coup to remove
a democratrically elected government and replace it with
the Shah s dictatorship..

And you dare talking about supporting "democratic" (read : US controled)
elements in Iran ??...

Or you mean helping the terrorists that hangs by there ,
financed by US funds ala People s Mujahidins ?...

And what do you have in Iran right now?

A regime that kills it's people for protesting the governments pre-handling of elections.

A regime that is rigging elections

A regime that is determined to lead the country into being attacked in one form or another just to show that they want to be the biggest kid on the block.

Maybe the country should be allowed to have a choice

 

[Hayabusa Rider]

Operation ajax was a US:UK sponsorized coup to remove
a democratrically elected government and replace it with
the Shah s dictatorship..

No kidding.

And you dare talking about supporting "democratic" (read : US controled)
elements in Iran ??...

That's your attribution, not mine.

Or you mean helping the terrorists that hangs by there ,
financed by US funds ala People s Mujahidins ?...

I'm thinking of the students who were mowed down by the Iranian government because they wanted freedom.

Sorry, I'm not picking from your list.

 

[jhu]

Islamic world already has nukes. See Pakistan...

 

[Lemon law]

As Haybasusa now comes back with, "Israel would be attacked without their nukes and you know that."

No, in a word, I don't that and neither should you.

Because at this point in time, Israel's conventional military hegemony is undisputed in all of the mid-east. At this point in time, Israel could face of all armed Arab nations combined and still prevail just using its land army and its air-force. So why does Israel need nukes?

Besides, If Israel was attacked by its Arab neighbors, its probable that the US and EU would come to Israel's defense.

After that, we must somewhat ask, if Israel chooses to act like a ahole to all of ts neighbors, then why should not say, that Israel just set up its own self fulfilling Prophesy that it neighbors will continue to hate Israel. Where does that vicious cycle stop? As it instead just perpetuates. With a major stinking point, of Israel doing every thing possible to delay a Palestinian State. Israel's last last chance was perhaps the Annapolis conference in 2008, when even Syria was prepared to officially recognize Israel's right to exist in exchange for a return of the Golan heights.

Since then, diplomatically, every gain Israel made in almost 2 decades have gone down the toilet. The peace treaty made with Egypt died when Mubarak got deposed. Jordan's King Abdullah is openly disgusted with Israel, and worse yet, Israel has openly alienated Turkey.

Which does not mean any surrounding Arab nation is ready to military attack Israel, but it does almost guarantee that oil wealthy Arab individuals and nations will continue to fund anti-Israeli terrorists. And worse yet for Israel, no longer do anti Israeli terrorists fight Israel with rocks and bottles, or use suicide bombers, when they are developing longer and longer range rockets.

Then we can ask another question, how big should a tiny population nation like Israel with less than 7 million Jews sphere of influence allowed to be? Israel is really pushing it when they try to extend that Sphere of influence to a 1000 Km away Iran? Nor can Israel claim they are pure and innocent victim of Iranian funded terrorism when Israel is openly subsidizing anti- Iranian terrorist and also running around Assassinating Iranian Scientists, and also doing the same in nations as far Dubyi. And forging the passports of nations like Germany.

But even then it maybe misses the point, Its mainly Israel that fears a rival military power in the Mid-east. That and the fact, when Iran got rid of the US puppet Shah of Iran, Iran quit being our puppet and started having its own foreign policy. A snit Washington can't forgive. As everything the USA to tried to do to get Iran back into the harem has instead backfired badly on the USA. And because most of the "free world" tends to back the USA, with Russia and China not getting too excited about defending Iran, we now have an impasse. Iran refuses to quit enriching Uranium and and the USA demand no Uranium enrichment at. Even if its right of any nation to develop peacetime nuclear power. In short, no reasonable compromise is possible.

Which brings up the real danger of war, and then we endanger something almost every industrialized nation on earth cares about. Namely disrupting the flow of oil through the Persian Gulf. If it just Israel that attacks Iran, they can't hardly even hope to do much damage to deeply buried Iranian nuclear sites unless they use nukes. Now if Israel tries to use punish the civilian infrastructure of Iran in a repeat of the rape of Lebanon and Gaza, this time its likely to result in the world wide condemnation of Israel. If the US joins in, its likely to result in the USA alienating every single nation of earth.