Is Windows Vista the #1 Tech Disappointment of 2007?

JustaGeek

Platinum Member
Jan 27, 2007
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So what do you think about this PC World article

I myself am waiting for my Ultimate 64 to arrive on the 27th of December, to test it to the limits, run Virtual PC 2007, and just to see what I have been missing in gaming compared to the 32-bit XP.

Is it a bad journalism, or they do have a point...?

Any comments...?
 

nismotigerwvu

Golden Member
May 13, 2004
1,568
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In the minds of people who believe everything they see and hear (including those Mac commercials) Vista never even boots without a blue screen and asks you a million times if you really want to open solitaire, oh and that Macs outnumber PC's 5:1 in the market. Truth be told, I've been using vista since the first public beta and personally I've had no issues. That doesn't mean that someone else hasn't gotten a bad string of luck with it with we really aren't dealing with WinME version 2.0 here. Everyone said the same thing when XP came out, trust me, new technology always has bugs to work out but theres enough good going on with Vista to keep me (and I'm sure others) hanging around. Some people are just highly resistant to change (back in the windows 3.1 versus DOS 6.0 era it was just as bad) and some people just want to hop on the popular story bandwagon.
 

nerp

Diamond Member
Dec 31, 2005
9,865
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There is already a thread about this and very similar to PC World's other lame effort which said a mac is the fastest Vista notebook, blah blah, PC World isn't really relevant. I find them to be the biggest tech magazine disappointment for 2007.
 

hurtstotalktoyou

Platinum Member
Mar 24, 2005
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Originally posted by: nismotigerwvu
In the minds of people who believe everything they see and hear (including those Mac commercials) Vista never even boots without a blue screen and asks you a million times if you really want to open solitaire, oh and that Macs outnumber PC's 5:1 in the market. Truth be told, I've been using vista since the first public beta and personally I've had no issues. That doesn't mean that someone else hasn't gotten a bad string of luck with it with we really aren't dealing with WinME version 2.0 here. Everyone said the same thing when XP came out, trust me, new technology always has bugs to work out but theres enough good going on with Vista to keep me (and I'm sure others) hanging around. Some people are just highly resistant to change (back in the windows 3.1 versus DOS 6.0 era it was just as bad) and some people just want to hop on the popular story bandwagon.

Agreed. Technological bugs are a fact of life; to expect a brand new OS to be immediately more solid than a six-year-old precursor is rather silly, I think. The same goes for their derision of OS X "Leopard" (no. 8 on their wacky "disappointments" list) which though it suffered from some serious issues initially was quickly patched in November.

As for the speed issue, it is true that Vista is slower than XP on machines with certain hardware limitations. The same can be said of Windows 98, which was slower than 95 when it was first released, and for XP, which was slower than 98/ME on many 2001-era systems. And you know what? I certainly agree that Vista is not for everyone, so I'm not at all surprised that certain folks are migrating *back* to XP after feeling dissatisfied with Vista. However, Vista is the future of Windows--at least for the next few years--and as 2GB RAM and dual-core CPUs become standard even in the entry-level market, I think Vista will look a lot more attractive.
 

fierydemise

Platinum Member
Apr 16, 2005
2,056
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Lets break down their arguments
It's not that Vista is awful. The integrated security and parental controls are nice, and the Aero interface is as whizzy as it gets. Searching and wireless networking are much faster and easier than under XP.
I love how they skip over so many of the other things in Vista including better security (even without UAC), also if something has so many positives how can it be the most disappointing.
It's just that Vista isn't all that good. Many of the innovations the operating system was supposed to bring--like more efficient file and communications systems--got tossed overboard as Microsoft struggled to get the OS out the door, some three years after it was first promised.
So Vista isn't good because they cut some features, basically if Microsoft had kept you entirely in the dark so you didn't know what they cut then Vista would be a better operating system?
Despite its hefty hardware requirements, Vista is slower than XP.
Truely damned if you do damned if you don't, Vista has "hefty" requirements because you need a relatively recent PC to benefit from vista however if Microsoft had actually listed 1GB of RAM as the minimum requirement (the minimum for Vista to run well) PC World would be complaining even more about hefty requirements.
When it debuted last January, incompatibilities were rampant--in part because hardware and software makers didn't feel any urgency to revamp their products to work with the new OS.
Wouldn't that make nVidia's, or Creative's drivers the most disappointing tech product of the year, Vista was in beta for a long time there is no excuse for not having adequate drivers when Vista came out.
The user account controls that were supposed to make users feel safer just made them feel irritated.
The annoyance caused by UAC is significantly overstated, for most people UAC isn't a problem past the first few days and generally decreasing in prevalence as the computer is used more.
And at $399 ($299 upgrade) for Windows Ultimate, we couldn't help feeling more than a little gouged.
Is Ultimate expensive? Yeah, but very few people need ultimate, most people would be just fine with either Home Premium or Business which are right in line with XP prices.
No wonder so many users are clinging to XP like shipwrecked sailors to a life raft, while others who made the upgrade are switching back.
There is demand to keep XP because of articles like this that overstate problems with Vista and talk about compatibility problems that existed 10 months ago without saying that they are all but fixed by now.
And when the fastest Vista notebook PC World has ever tested is an Apple MacBook Pro, there's something deeply wrong with the universe.
Why is this news let alone wrong? Vista runs well on a $3000 laptop with 4GB of RAM, stop the presses.
We have no doubt Vista will come to dominate the PC landscape, if only because it will become increasingly hard to buy a new machine that doesn't have it pre-installed. And that's disappointing in its own right.
So progress is disappointing, certainly if you use some arbitrary criteria which overstates problems, emphasizes problems that don't exist and doesn't acknowledge the majority of features new to Vista then yes it is disappointing but to those of us that have been happy with Vista for the past few months (at least) more people switching and the end of absurd articles like this is hardly disappointing
 

Megatomic

Lifer
Nov 9, 2000
20,127
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fierydemise, my wife just got a toshiba laptop with vista home on it and she would tend to agree with the article. Vista doesn't provide her with the same pleasure and ease of use that she is accustomed to in XP. The next long weekend will see me wiping the laptop and putting XP Home on it. And please spare me the vista elitism (not just you fierydemise, but to all the vista evangelists dying to flame me right now), she is not some newbie grandma or untrained person who is barely able to walk and chew gum simultaneously. Vista is cumbersome and the uac popups are friggin' annoying even to me, and I beta tested the damned product. :roll:

So yes, I agree on several of the points in the article. My house will soon be back off of vista and we'll all have XP. For a while anyhow.
 

rip

Senior member
Feb 5, 2000
613
1
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Originally posted by: Megatomic
fierydemise, my wife just got a toshiba laptop with vista home on it and she would tend to agree with the article. Vista doesn't provide her with the same pleasure and ease of use that she is accustomed to in XP. The next long weekend will see me wiping the laptop and putting XP Home on it. And please spare me the vista elitism (not just you fierydemise, but to all the vista evangelists dying to flame me right now), she is not some newbie grandma or untrained person who is barely able to walk and chew gum simultaneously. Vista is cumbersome and the uac popups are friggin' annoying even to me, and I beta tested the damned product. :roll:

So yes, I agree on several of the points in the article. My house will soon be back off of vista and we'll all have XP. For a while anyhow.

Sell me your Vista!!! I love it. Much like Office 2007, after you get to know your way around it's really very nice.
 

Schadenfroh

Elite Member
Mar 8, 2003
38,416
4
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the uac popups are friggin' annoying even to me
You can disable UAC, but you will lose out on other features than just the popups, like some of the sandbox features of IE, Virtualized registry, etc. but it will kill those UAC popups!

read more here
 

Mem

Lifer
Apr 23, 2000
21,476
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Originally posted by: Megatomic
fierydemise, my wife just got a toshiba laptop with vista home on it and she would tend to agree with the article. Vista doesn't provide her with the same pleasure and ease of use that she is accustomed to in XP. The next long weekend will see me wiping the laptop and putting XP Home on it. And please spare me the vista elitism (not just you fierydemise, but to all the vista evangelists dying to flame me right now), she is not some newbie grandma or untrained person who is barely able to walk and chew gum simultaneously. Vista is cumbersome and the uac popups are friggin' annoying even to me, and I beta tested the damned product. :roll:

So yes, I agree on several of the points in the article. My house will soon be back off of vista and we'll all have XP. For a while anyhow.

I have to disagree Megatomic my old friend,been using XP for almost 7 years and now Vista for almost a year,its so easy to learn ,learning curve from XP is so small I could teach my niece within a hour the basics,please don't say its hard because you know Vista is not as hard as you make it out to be,even the UAC pops don't bother me and I personally could not go back to XP,each to their own however,be interesting to see what the new Vienna users say about Vienna when that gets released down the road.

Lets see what FUD gets posted in this thread about Vista(Megatomic that's not pointed at you).

:)





 

Megatomic

Lifer
Nov 9, 2000
20,127
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I never said it was hard, I said it's ease of use is less than that of XP. And for my wife it's not as pleasureable a computing experience either. I have never stated here nor anywhere else that it's horrible or a waste of money. But I've never endorsed it either. How's that for straddling the fence?

I'll be honest here, if I'm going to get used to a new operating system experience it's gonna have to be OS X. :) Vista doesn't appeal to me and it's going to be half a decade or so before Vienna goes gold.
 

Mem

Lifer
Apr 23, 2000
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Originally posted by: Megatomic
I never said it was hard, I said it's ease of use is less than that of XP. And for my wife it's not as pleasureable a computing experience either. I have never stated here nor anywhere else that it's horrible or a waste of money. But I've never endorsed it either. How's that for straddling the fence?

I'll be honest here, if I'm going to get used to a new operating system experience it's gonna have to be OS X. :) Vista doesn't appeal to me and it's going to be half a decade or so before Vienna goes gold.

Ease of use,well personally I don't have any problems in that area,I use Vista x64 for gaming and general use.

I can't really say ease of use is harder or a lot different then XP in my experience,any new OS you'll find things slighlty different etc...

Anyway each to their own as I keep saying ;).
 

Megatomic

Lifer
Nov 9, 2000
20,127
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Yeah, uac is bothersome, but it's not unuseable. And using the computer with vista isn't bad as far as I'M concerned. But my wife is an above average windows user, granted she's not a power user like the typical ATer. If she's turned off by it, the chances are great that there are many many others out there with the same satisfaction level or worse. So whether or not PCMag is always a credible source isn't the issue here, they happen to be at least partially right this time.

So, how's things Mem? Been a while since we conversed in a thread...
 

Mem

Lifer
Apr 23, 2000
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Originally posted by: Megatomic
Yeah, uac is bothersome, but it's not unuseable. And using the computer with vista isn't bad as far as I'M concerned. But my wife is an above average windows user, granted she's not a power user like the typical ATer. If she's turned off by it, the chances are great that there are many many others out there with the same satisfaction level or worse. So whether or not PCMag is always a credible source isn't the issue here, they happen to be at least partially right this time.

So, how's things Mem? Been a while since we conversed in a thread...

Having too much fun with Vista ;) (hehe you did ask) ,been busy putting games through Vista etc (49 working games installed at present) .....UAC is not a big deal for me,took me about 2 weeks to get use to it(prefer it enabled).

I can't believe Vista is almost a year old ,where did the time go?



 

Bateluer

Lifer
Jun 23, 2001
27,730
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I am thinking the Vista bashing won't end until Vienna is released. Then everyone will be complaining about Vienna and stating how much better Vista is than Vienna. :p
 

Mem

Lifer
Apr 23, 2000
21,476
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Originally posted by: Bateluer
I am thinking the Vista bashing won't end until Vienna is released. Then everyone will be complaining about Vienna and stating how much better Vista is than Vienna. :p

The same thing happened when XP was released,I can remember all those 2K users having a pop,I was also one of those defending XP even then when it was new,I guess I better reserve my Vienna seat too ;).
 

Megatomic

Lifer
Nov 9, 2000
20,127
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I was an XP evangelist back then. I tested it from the very first beta release through it's SP2 release and it was always great for me. I just can't seem to get behind Vista the same way, the magic is gone. :(
 

Maximilian

Lifer
Feb 8, 2004
12,604
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I pretty much agree with that article, theres absolutely nothing in vista that has an advantage over XP, only reason i have it is 64-bit.

I keep hearing superfetch (save a few seconds loading stuff) and increased security (i havent noticed it) and xp cost about the same when it was released and it was shunned too (probably by the windows 2000 minority, i dont know i wasent in the tech scene then but its a good bet that windows 98/ME users were happy when XP came) so that somehow makes vista cost effective and better. Nah, going from ME to XP was a godsend, XP to vista isnt the same, theres just no actual improvement for me here.
 

Mem

Lifer
Apr 23, 2000
21,476
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Originally posted by: Soviet
I pretty much agree with that article, theres absolutely nothing in vista that has an advantage over XP, only reason i have it is 64-bit.

I keep hearing superfetch (save a few seconds loading stuff) and increased security (i havent noticed it) and xp cost about the same when it was released and it was shunned too (probably by the windows 2000 minority, i dont know i wasent in the tech scene then but its a good bet that windows 98/ME users were happy when XP came) so that somehow makes vista cost effective and better. Nah, going from ME to XP was a godsend, XP to vista isnt the same, theres just no actual improvement for me here.

Funny how all the XP users won't comment on 2K to XP,was there a real upgrade?..if anything XP to Vista is a bigger upgrade by a mile.
 

Mem

Lifer
Apr 23, 2000
21,476
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Originally posted by: Megatomic
I moved to XP from 2K and was very happy to do so. :)

That's my point about Vista,some don't like it because of changes while some don't like it because of not enough changes ,yet it has more changes/improvements then 2K to XP,some people are never happy ; ).

I guess I'm in the happy category from XP to Vista.
 

mechBgon

Super Moderator<br>Elite Member
Oct 31, 1999
30,699
1
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Originally posted by: Soviet
I keep hearing superfetch (save a few seconds loading stuff) and increased security (i havent noticed it)

What would you expect to "notice" if Windows Integrity Control, services hardening, or ASLR prevented an exploit from succeeding?

(to name just some of the Vista-specific security improvements)


I imagine Windows Vista is the #1 Disappointment Of 2007 among professional malware-authoring criminals, at any rate :D There Microsoft goes, changing the rules and stuff... can they do that?! :confused:

 

JustaGeek

Platinum Member
Jan 27, 2007
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I am personally real surprised, since I treat PC World as a source of very credible information on a "popular computer science" level.

But this is what the general public reads! That's where they go, if they want to learn more about hardware and software! Thats what catches their eyes on the newsstands!

A little disappointing, because it doesn't really do any good to anyone. Like it or not, Vista is here to stay.

Personally, I can't wait for my 64-bit Ultimate to arrive, to put it through its paces...
 

Maximilian

Lifer
Feb 8, 2004
12,604
15
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Originally posted by: Mem
Originally posted by: Megatomic
I moved to XP from 2K and was very happy to do so. :)

That's my point about Vista,some don't like it because of changes while some don't like it because of not enough changes ,yet it has more changes/improvements then 2K to XP,some people are never happy ; ).

I guess I'm in the happy category from XP to Vista.

But most people didnt have 2k, it was a business OS, i gather that most had 98 or ME. My new pentium 4 came with ME installed and all the other computers in the store i went to had ME as well. So 2k to XP is pretty irrelevant since 2k wasent really meant for home use.

XP was intended for home use and the jump from the dos based OS's to the NT based windows XP was pretty damn sweet, i was chuffed when i got XP and nothing crashed or bluescreened, plus most of my old apps ran fine too. With jumping from windows XP to vista theres not much to be improved on in the stability or functionality department, so i kinda expected something more than what we were given.

How about never having to restart after an update?

How about a system where bluescreens are more user friendly, windows analyzes the dump itsself and gives some probable causes?

How about something like that beryl thing that linux has? The 3d interface vista has is fine but other options for it would have been nice... like a 3d cube? hmm?

How about a UI that makes more sense than the XP one, its not much worse but its not much better either. Heres an example i asked about in another thread, but noone understood what i meant because i suck at wording things i guess. Heres an illustration of a part of the vista UI that didnt make sense to me

How about updated windows core programs? Paint could use an update, calculator too.

Its just... what were they doing for 5 years? Its like that game prey that was in development for ages, same with STALKER, yeah they were alright but they took how long!?! Vista should have been more than what it is. Thats what i think anyways.
 

JustaGeek

Platinum Member
Jan 27, 2007
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I have to admit that I was reluctant at first, and it was decisively slower than XP MC on my laptop when I installed it in March.

But it is working real well now, 9 months later...

And all that on the very basic laptop - specs in the sig...