Is win 8 an NSA data hub?

SlickR12345

Senior member
Jan 9, 2010
542
44
91
www.clubvalenciacf.com
I want to upgrade to windows 8.1 update 1, I'm currently on win 7, I feel like with the start menu added from 3rd party applications its going to be good, but the biggest problem for me is if windows 8 is an NSA data hub, where you don't have privacy.

I know that the windows automatically connects to the internet, it uploads your profiles and whatnot in the cloud, and with Snowden and other leaks proving Microsoft is basically giving all data to the NSA across all their platforms, I don't want to be a victim of illegal spying for the criminal USA bureaucracy NSA.

I think hacking is really a crime, but its especially a crime if the government does it and does it in secret and lies about it and abuses it.

So, can I trust microsoft to not give all my data in windows 8 to the NSA?

Moved from OSes to P&N (this isn't a technical discussion)
-ViRGE
 
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readymix

Senior member
Jan 3, 2007
357
1
81
it's over, you're online already. no chance of remission. oh yea, 3rd party applications, right, sure.............click "I agree" how many times, 100's????????? ;)
 

lxskllr

No Lifer
Nov 30, 2004
60,053
10,541
126
You can't trust MS at all. If you can't see the code, you can't trust the code. I don't know that 8 is any worse than 7 or earlier, but that's not exactly an endorsement.
 

imagoon

Diamond Member
Feb 19, 2003
5,199
0
0
You can't trust MS at all. If you can't see the code, you can't trust the code. I don't know that 8 is any worse than 7 or earlier, but that's not exactly an endorsement.

You can't trust the code when you can see it either.
 

fire400

Diamond Member
Nov 21, 2005
5,204
21
81
i think the OP is lazy and just wants someone to reassure him that... "NO, the gov. doesn't give a fvck about you unless your attract the idea of posing a serious threat in the first place."

u.s. gov. already has microsoft/apple operating systems stripped down, they hire hackers, everyone knows about this already, nothing new. how do you think they compete with the Russians and China in the first place?
euro nations have been patching redhat and their own linux servers to close as many gaps as possible, and steering away from windows bases OS's.

just install avg internet security and malwarebytes pro and spybot search & destroy, tunnel through basic VPN scrambler for internet access, and surf in incognito mode for browser. least amount of work for quickest secure security.

don't get too fed up with conspiracies. if you're really scared, then get identity protection from 3rd party and your bank. but if you're scared of the gov. spying on you, unless you're doing anything super illegal, i think maybe a visit to a psychologist would be a good idea..

and even if someone publicizes your search history? you think anyone will care? privacy is important, sure, cover your tracks, fill in the holes, but don't be overly paranoid. use basic common sense when surfing, sharing, and making purchases online.

"nsa spies on you" search: www.dailytech.com
http://www.dailytech.com/searchresults.aspx?keyword=nsa spies on you
 
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BonzaiDuck

Lifer
Jun 30, 2004
16,627
2,024
126
i think the OP is lazy and just wants someone to reassure him that... "NO, the gov. doesn't give a fvck about you unless your attract the idea of posing a serious threat in the first place."

u.s. gov. already has microsoft/apple operating systems stripped down, they hire hackers, everyone knows about this already, nothing new. how do you think they compete with the Russians and China in the first place?
euro nations have been patching redhat and their own linux servers to close as many gaps as possible, and steering away from windows bases OS's.

just install avg internet security and malwarebytes pro and spybot search & destroy, tunnel through basic VPN scrambler for internet access, and surf in incognito mode for browser. least amount of work for quickest secure security.

don't get too fed up with conspiracies. if you're really scared, then get identity protection from 3rd party and your bank. but if you're scared of the gov. spying on you, unless you're doing anything super illegal, i think maybe a visit to a psychologist would be a good idea..

and even if someone publicizes your search history? you think anyone will care? privacy is important, sure, cover your tracks, fill in the holes, but don't be overly paranoid. use basic common sense when surfing, sharing, and making purchases online.

"nsa spies on you" search: www.dailytech.com
http://www.dailytech.com/searchresults.aspx?keyword=nsa spies on you

It's intriguing, how we sometimes find ourselves confused in our choices of forums for posting a question -- because there is such a severe overlap between forum categories on a particular topic. I made that remark today on the "HTPC" forum, and it is relevant to my point here: barring the concern about Microsoft's OS, you would post the paranoia in the "Politics" forum. So I'll tell you youngsters what I know.

First, I've come to a conclusion that the sense of time and history differs between generations. I found it frustrating to see the chicken-littles and lemmings ooze out of the social-media woodwork and "letters to the editor" when the Snowden "revelation" first hit the news. Some of the younger crowd -- panicked over the lack of privacy on their cellphones and web-searches -- were born when I was reaching middle age.

The NSA was created in 1953 as an outgrowth of the 1947 National Security Act. At a time when "Andy Griffith townships" had no privacy on telephone party-lines, the entire telecommunications industry evolved with connections to NSA "tentacles." As of the late '90s, NSA had some 90,000 employees or operatives, with clearances passed out all over the private sector of the industry.

Maybe you missed the 1993 release of a film featuring Redford, Ackroyd, Poitier, Kingsley: "Sneakers." As fiction, that movie drew on what was known then about NSA's mission and the emerging technology.

In 1997, I established contact with a distant relative in the German city of Koln (Cologne.) We corresponded by e-mail, and he was adamant that I use PGP double-key encryption in my e-mails. I complied, and quickly came aboard to the distinction between being a German citizen, an American citizen, and an American corresponding with a German citizen on the internet.

In 1999, BBC TV produced an expose' on NSA's ECHELON system, essentially driving home the point that NSA could tap any telephone in the modern world. If you have Google Earth installed on your computer, you can locate such places as Menwith Hill, UK or Pine Gap, Australia -- and similar locations in Germany, Japan, and New Zealand. You can zoom in to the point where you can almost see the facets in the construction of the radomes.

Then we get to 2001 and 9/11, and the lies and distortions over the WMDs in 2003. The lemmings all ran in one direction: "Help! The Tewwoist want to kill my lapdog Fluffie!"

Here we are with Snowden. I think his "skills" were vastly over-rated. But it is known fact: his family was already working for the National Security apparatus, and it was his easy passport to direct employment at CIA, followed by the contractor Booz-Allen-Hamilton. He took the job with the NSA contractor with the deliberate intention of compromising the agency.

If you all remember, there was a fourth sequel to the Bourne trilogy released in 2012 -- a year before Snowden's escapade: "The Bourne Legacy." Kurt Vonnegut, in "Breakfast of Champions," once made the observation that people behave like characters in the movies they habitually watched at the local theater. And if you compare Snowden's own "flight and pursuit," it seems to follow loosely the trail of Aaron Cross in the fiction.

Of course Microsoft had a franchise with the government to develop the internet. The Texas oil industry had a franchise with Bush -- or Bush had a franchise with the "strategic minerals industry" -- to develop the war in Iraq. NSA began to overstep the boundaries set for it because that's what the people wanted in the panic over 9/11. Even so, the matching of domestic phone numbers given suspicions about foreign callers seemed like a benign approach to a potentially serious threat -- supposedly tempered by the congressional oversight and the court assigned to make further decisions about how that iterative phone-number-matching turned up results. Whether or not it had yet proven effective may be less relevant to the discussion.

But a phone number is no different on its surface than an address on an envelope sent through USPS: "Oh, God!! Mah preshus bodily fluids are bein' compromised to the mailman!" What is different: It was easy, given the telecommunications industry in concert with NSA, to capture all content in addition to the phone numbers and billing information. USPS doesn't store addresses -- and certainly not the content -- when you post a letter.

I think there's an element of narcissism in the public outcry. You post your drivel on Facebook and everywhere else -- as I post this drivel here -- and then you expect your cell-phone to be secure? Private?

You're not that important. NSA isn't interested in your e-mails; Microsoft isn't either.

And for God's sake! If you worry about that -- if you think the federal gov'mint "wanna take away your preshus bodily fluids" -- tell your friends to get PGP or some similar encryption program.

That computer at Fort Mead can probably break any encryption scheme ever designed. But it's like mailing your tax return to IRS versus filing electronically: If you're going to make it that hard for them, you've little cause to worry. Even a good number of somebodies are really nobodies to the NSA, the CIA, the SPCA, or any other institution.
 

Elixer

Lifer
May 7, 2002
10,371
762
126
You can't trust the code when you can see it either.

Well said.

openSSL anyone ?


OP, if you are paranoid, and want some good conspiracy stories, then, yeah, stay away from anything that can transmit data.

In all seriousness, your phone gives more info about you than the OS of your choice.
 

lxskllr

No Lifer
Nov 30, 2004
60,053
10,541
126
Well said.

openSSL anyone ?

and it was fixed. "Bugs happen, so fsck it all" isn't a security policy. Code that can't be seen can *never* be fixed unless that single person that sees the code decides to fix it. If you have closed code, you don't have security. It really is that simple.
 

Elixer

Lifer
May 7, 2002
10,371
762
126
and it was fixed. "Bugs happen, so fsck it all" isn't a security policy. Code that can't be seen can *never* be fixed unless that single person that sees the code decides to fix it. If you have closed code, you don't have security. It really is that simple.

Usually there is code review for most close source applications, so it doesn't rely on a single person.

How many people have found bugs that can be exploited in open sourced code, and have used that information to do bad, not good ?

While it is true, that I rather have the code open, that in itself isn't a magic bullet to fix security related issues.
 

Kadarin

Lifer
Nov 23, 2001
44,296
16
81
You're not that important. NSA isn't interested in your e-mails; Microsoft isn't either.

But... If you decide to run for high political office and your values are antagonistic to the existing Statist power structure, the NSA will be very interested in your emails.
 

BonzaiDuck

Lifer
Jun 30, 2004
16,627
2,024
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But... If you decide to run for high political office and your values are antagonistic to the existing Statist power structure, the NSA will be very interested in your emails.

You know, as I understand it, the Bill of Rights was almost an afterthought to the Constitution. Elements of -- or around -- the Founders didn't think it was necessary.

You have "congressional oversight" for the National Security State and its Apparatus, although folks don't think it's sufficient. And -- you may have something there: suppose a candidate came out and said he was "going to break NSA into a thousand pieces and scatter it to the wind?" [You should recognize my paraphrase and its original author -- what happened to him?

Oftentimes, those agencies are heavily influenced by the concentrated industries who get big contract, have tax breaks, have an ability to influence foreign policy on behalf of those concentrated interests. So you wonder what a more-diffuse telecommunications industry can tell NSA to do, as opposed to what NSA can legally tell them to do.

It just boils down to this for me. Eisenhower said it best, but the euphemism "military industrial complex" seems to indicate only the defense industry. The defense industry is a Monopsony -- there's mostly a "single buyer and many sellers," but the sellers consolidate, like Boeing-McDonnell-Douglas in the '90s. There is one or more investment groups -- like Carlisle. Dogma says we must keep it "on-line." The only other market for them is the civilian airframe industry and the international armaments market. Thus . . . we had the Great Lockheed Bailout orchestrated by Senator John Tower (Tx) in the '70s. There must have been a panic when the Cold War seemingly came to an end in the '90s, and Clinton closed bases and trimmed the defense budget.

The complex includes "strategic minerals," (a euphemism for a major industry and three-letter-word). The majority investors move money back and forth from defense/aerospace to their main business, or perhaps in other ways, but the point of it: use the National Security Apparatus to assure access to oil. They forget about the distant cultures in faraway places where they seek to extract, so they make mistakes with their short-term thinking.

That industry is the opposite of a Monopsony, for it is -- in its number of corporate entities here in the US -- small enough to be a cartel -- a form of oligopoly and monopoly. They never lose money: profits are guaranteed. The entire economy runs on one thing, or variations of it -- all fossil fuels. That's not much of a choice -- to assure that the concentrated industry can have hard times as well as good - there's no substitute. As Thomas Hobbes would put it, you have made Oil your Sovereign, and you surrender your freedom to assure a life better than "nasty, brutish and short."

So then there's NSA. And -- telecommunications. But telecommunications is more diffuse.

You notice that the PResident can't just come out and attack Big Oil, or just oppose Keystone outright. They have power; they buy media, they fund campaigns, they have the Koch brothers and a sympathetic Supreme Court -- and of course, the Tea Party, as it suits their purpose, vaguely reminiscent of something called the Sturm Abteilung.

So I'm more worried about the source of certain political influences from the Right, than I am about a government institution, with a mission, and oversight. Yes, it's big. That's how the Cold War was played to us for $6 Trillion in overall spending. And it's a big country. I don't know how to resolve all this, neither does the President. His successor probably didn't even concern himself with it -- it was all good, "ta proteck our freee-dums, ya see!"

Anyway, you don't need death camps, anti-Semitism or a Gestapo to have a form of government and industry that seems . . Corporatist . . . and Fascist.
 

WelshBloke

Lifer
Jan 12, 2005
33,111
11,290
136
In all seriousness, your phone gives more info about you than the OS of your choice.


Your phone certainly leaks a butt ton of information about you but so does your desktop.

I was arsing around with some network monitoring stuff on my (windows) PC and the amount of outward connections to Microsoft was eye opening.
 

zanejohnson

Diamond Member
Nov 29, 2002
7,054
17
81
new flavors of *nix are absolute tits anyway, why would anyone wanna use that microsoft garbage anyway.. (besides gaming) and you should have a dedicated gaming rig for that if your l33t

nixlove.jpeg
 

imagoon

Diamond Member
Feb 19, 2003
5,199
0
0
new flavors of *nix are absolute tits anyway, why would anyone wanna use that microsoft garbage anyway.. (besides gaming) and you should have a dedicated gaming rig for that if your l33t

nixlove.jpeg

Seems pretty silly to go get Freeware to then buy another rig to run it. Besides, I like it when my system works, not spending days roaming around of forums dealing with random errors.