Is this the thanks we get for normalizing trade relations with China?

[Hayabusa Rider]

Anyone know the story about a snake found by a woman? He swore he wouldn't bite her. She took care of him, and in return he bit her. She cried that she was going to die. The snaked answered that she had nothing to complaing about. After all she knew he was a snake.

US = That woman
China = the snake

 

[gopunk]

<< Anyone know the story about a snake found by a woman? He swore he wouldn't bite her. She took care of him, and in return he bit her. She cried that she was going to die. The snaked answered that she had nothing to complaing about. After all she knew he was a snake.

US = That woman
China = the snake >>



wow, that was convincing. you're right, china is our mortal enemy (i mean, they are red commies after all...), and we should prepare for war against them.

 

[Hayabusa Rider]

The story is folksy perhaps but the analogy holds. People facing possible death sentences for distributing bibles, harvesting organs of executed prisoners for profit. Oh yeah, these are nice guys. 69 "crimes" which can lead to execution. Sweethearts every one. Vipers indeed. There is nothing for it, but I don't have to trust these people or like more nukes pointed at me by what may one day become a very unstable government. Unstable, unless they go back to the purges of Mao. Make the Holocost look like a picnic. Embrace them if you will, but I'll be suspicious until they give good cause to believe otherwise.

 

[tcsenter]

<< it isn't communist right now. >>

Huh? China is one of THE last remaining bastions of BONA FIDE communism in the world. China is not SOCIALIST. Some people apparently don't understand the difference, but they aren't afraid to let their ignorance show.

 

[gopunk]

<<

<< it isn't communist right now. >>

Huh? China is one of THE last remaining bastions of BONA FIDE communism in the world. China is not SOCIALIST. Some people apparently don't understand the difference, but they aren't afraid to let their ignorance show. >>



i'm sorry, i don't recall saying it was socialist either. did you see me say that? explain to me how china is communist, i'm listening.

 

[Babbles]

There was something on CNN's site late last week about some Hong Kong import/export dude who got arrested and detained by the wonderful Chinese government for importing bibles to sell.

He is now facing the death penalty.

Yup, free trade in China just rocks, eh?

And, about a month ago, China shut down like 1500 internet coffe bar things because the computer's did not have the proper government filtering softeware.

The software prevented the computers from accessing any foreign news material.

I guess what aggravates me so damned much, is why didn't Beijing just copy Hong Kong's role and then everything could be peachy. But, no, they lie to the international community about leaving Hong Kong's laws intact and just suck that city into the mindless collective and just screw things up.
Then I guess that would show some weakness by following the British example that was laid down in Hong Kong.

 

[HombrePequeno]

<< There was something on CNN's site late last week about some Hong Kong import/export dude who got arrested and detained by the wonderful Chinese government for importing bibles to sell.

He is now facing the death penalty.

Yup, free trade in China just rocks, eh? >>



That was aboot him spreading Christianity (which the Chinese govt. considers a cult) not aboot trade.

 

[jinglingxl]

has anyone read Sun Tzu's Art of War?
maybe there is an answer in the book

 

[Texmaster]

<<

<< I think once their economy gets stronger, and capitalism starts to take over, which it will at a faster rate since Bush just signed this, that the communist governemnt will collapse. I'm no expert, I'm actually a moron, but I bet that by 2020 China will not be communist. >>



it isn't communist right now.

vespasian - are you related to texmaster or something? you're like chicken little jr. >>



Sorry about this Vespasian

Sometimes Gopunk gets away from mommie and climbs onto the computer chair.


And Gopunk you are still sitting on a weak arguement. (I know its not a suprise but still). China may be a hybrid of communism but their roots are still very much entrenched in Communism.

Hell JIANG Zemin, the president of China is General Secretary of the Central Committee of the Chinese Communist Party. Link

It really is amusing watching morons like you trying to trip people up on the very definition of China when its the way the entire country heavily leans. This tactic of microdebating is only done by warped frustrated little people such as yourself

Oh, and newsflash for you little buddy, state run media and religious intolerance are not qualities shared by free nations

 

[tcsenter]

<< i'm sorry, i don't recall saying it was socialist either. did you see me say that? explain to me how china is communist, i'm listening. >>

I wasn't accusing you of calling China socialist. I was replacing 'communist' with 'socialist' to make your statement correct.

A communist government, is one which is utterly, from top to bottom, under the control of a communist party system. It usually gets that control by force (revolution), and the opposition party members don't just step down and return to civilian life, they are marched-out to some mass grave and executed, forced to do the communists' bidding, or exiled.

This is exactly how the communist party gained control of China, and it has exerted near total control over policy making and administration for some 60+ years. There have been a couple instances where the communist party was threatened, diluted, or put on the defensive, but it has always prevailed.

It is true that China has a bustling industry where investment and control over day-to-day operations and profit is largely private, but that is NOT tantamount to private "ownership". The property, the buildings, everyone inside of them, and the output of those factories and businesses, are "owned" by the People's Republic of China. Those companies are merely leasing everything from the ROC, in a sense.

Private industry is there by INVITATION, by mutual agreement between the Communist Party and industry, because it is a mutually beneficial relationship ($$). At any time it sees fit, China's ruling party can assume control over anything and everything that falls within ROC borders by edict of the Communist Party, and you can bet that the Communist Party has party officials keeping tabs on the going-on's of every business and factory within its borders, those that aren't already controlled by members and officers of the Communist Party (and most are).

Taiwan is not an independent state, it only acts like it is.

 

[QTPie]

No matter what they do/say, I'd still prefer them as communist. Why?Because Communist Party has been running that country. Other parties (if there is any!) are just pupet. They don't even have something like our First Amendment. Does Tianmen Square ring a bell?

 

[BlackSoul]

<< Should I have said, "Yippee! In a little over a decade China will have 100 ICBMs pointed directly at us!" >>



Don't worry the missle diaphram will stop them all!

 

[Nefrodite]

Should I have said, "Yippee, in a little over a decade China will have 100 ICBMs pointed directly at us!"

how many do we have pointed at them???

your paranoia us unwarranted, i'd be more afraid of iran with their religious reasons to fire at us.

 

[tcsenter]

<< They don't even have something like our First Amendment. Does Tianmen Square ring a bell? >>

Tiananmen Square WAS a good old fashioned Communist crackdown, Lenin style.

 

[cuteybunny]

ever since sept11 thing has never been the same well not really because there were worse time then this like WW1 and WW2.

 

[Elledan]

Leave it to Texmaster to insult those who disagree with the majority... sheesh...

 

[Texmaster]

<< Leave it to Texmaster to insult those who disagree with the majority... sheesh... >>




LOL And leave it to Elledan to selectivly overlook who began the attacks on the thread...sheesh

 

[gopunk]

And Gopunk you are still sitting on a weak arguement. (I know its not a suprise but still). China may be a hybrid of communism but their roots are still very much entrenched in Communism.

i don't disagree with that, but that doesn't mean it's communist!

Hell JIANG Zemin, the president of China is General Secretary of the Central Committee of the Chinese Communist Party. Link

so they're communist just because they say so? i don't think so, they are defined by their actions, not what they say they are. if you call yourself a christian but don't believe in jesus christ as the lord's son, you're not christian.

It really is amusing watching morons like you trying to trip people up on the very definition of China when its the way the entire country heavily leans. This tactic of microdebating is only done by warped frustrated little people such as yourself

and why would i be frustrated? it's amusing to watch people like you keep on going "china's communist because a.) they said so, and b.) they're authoritarian", totally ignoring the definition of communism.

Oh, and newsflash for you little buddy, state run media and religious intolerance are not qualities shared by free nations

here's your very own newsflash, just because a nation isn't free, doesn't mean it's communist.

 

[Texmaster]

<< i don't disagree with that, but that doesn't mean it's communist! >>



Getting angry doesn't mean it isn't either Its a hybrid of communism and carries many many characteristics of communism.



<< so they're communist just because they say so? i don't think so, they are defined by their actions, not what they say they are. if you call yourself a christian but don't believe in jesus christ as the lord's son, you're not christian. >>



And what actions have they taken that say they are not a communist nation? Their law, governemntal structure, and leading political structure are all heavily communist.



<< and why would i be frustrated? it's amusing to watch people like you keep on going "china's communist because a.) they said so, and b.) they're authoritarian", totally ignoring the definition of communism. >>



Show me where I said that China was communist. Back up that BS. I said they lean heavily towards communism and they do. nice try.

 

[gopunk]

A communist government, is one which is utterly, from top to bottom, under the control of a communist party system. It usually gets that control by force (revolution), and the opposition party members don't just step down and return to civilian life, they are marched-out to some mass grave and executed, forced to do the communists' bidding, or exiled.

Communism
A system of government in which the state plans and controls the economy and a single, often authoritarian party holds power, claiming to make progress toward a higher social order in which all goods are equally shared by the people.
The Marxist-Leninist version of Communist doctrine that advocates the overthrow of capitalism by the revolution of the proletariat.

the second definition is kind of loose (and doesn't really apply anyways), but within the first definition, while the first two requirements are at least partially fulfilled, i think china's government gave up on the whole "equally shared by the people" thing.

i'll agree that the government there is authoritarian and they do control the economy for the post part, but they're missing what i feel to be the key component of communism, which is the whole "all goods are equally shared by the people" part. i mean, that's the whole point of communism! and they don't have it...

 

[gopunk]

Getting angry doesn't mean it isn't either Its a hybrid of communism and carries many many characteristics of communism.

for future reference, i'm usually not angry, my exclamation points are meant for emphasis. i agree with your statement, but that doesn't mean it's communist.

And what actions have they taken that say they are not a communist nation? Their law, governemntal structure, and leading political structure are all heavily communist.

it doesn't fulfill the entire definition of communism.

Show me where I said that China was communist. Back up that BS. I said they lean heavily towards communism and they do. nice try.

okay fine, so if you're not saying they're communist, we agree. there's no point in any further discussion.

 

[zer0calories]

Um, back to the original topic. China has missiles pointed at the United States? So.

Everybody has missiles pointed at everybody! Wake up! You think the US doesn't have anything targeting China as I type?

 

[Texmaster]

<< for future reference, i'm usually not angry, my exclamation points are meant for emphasis. i agree with your statement, but that doesn't mean it's communist. >>



So how would you define it? Its very fair to say that out of the general terms of governemnt rule, China fits communism far better than any other.



<< it doesn't fulfill the entire definition of communism. >>



Sigh, you are arguing semantics. China's best description for their governemnt is communism, even though it may not fit perfectly its the closest and best definition available.



<< okay fine, so if you're not saying they're communist, we agree. there's no point in any further discussion. >>



I'm saying that their best description is communist. Trying to prove people wrong on a few technicalities of communism is hardly worth a debate.

China is largely communism in nature.

And remember, I didn't even know this thread existed until I got a PM someone was ripping me in a thread I never posted in. (an no it wasn't vespian). Be more careful in the future.

 

[Czar]

Then ask where nukes in the US and Russia are pointed. The world is indeed a strange and a scary place.

 

[Ferocious]

China really is the corporations' love nest!!

Imagine a market friendly to corporations where workers' have no significant rights. Where independant unions are illegal. Where there is are no recourses for workers who have complaints.

If the government wasn't authoritarian or corrupt, do you think corporations would be licking their chops over the idea of building in China? Of course not. At least nowhere as eagerly.